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View Full Version : Force Feed joysticks - opinions?



bubba4386
04-16-2005, 09:02 AM
Currently I'm using the X-45 (and happy with it),but ,I'm considering the Saitek Evo Force - every now and then I'll read a thread where someone says they'd never fly without FF - being able to feel the nibble of a stall before it happens, gun hits, etc., the reality factor is so great. However, most joystick replacement discussions focus on CH, Cougar, X-52, etc. Are FF sticks the best kept secret in the sim world, or junk?

bubba4386
04-16-2005, 09:02 AM
Currently I'm using the X-45 (and happy with it),but ,I'm considering the Saitek Evo Force - every now and then I'll read a thread where someone says they'd never fly without FF - being able to feel the nibble of a stall before it happens, gun hits, etc., the reality factor is so great. However, most joystick replacement discussions focus on CH, Cougar, X-52, etc. Are FF sticks the best kept secret in the sim world, or junk?

carguy_
04-16-2005, 10:51 AM
Don`t be missguided the CH,Cougar sticks and X45(X52) are the best around.They`re so good that you don`t need FF to perfectly feel your plane(with good profile settings).


At first FF feels dang weird but after half an hour the brain thinks you feel a real plane heheh

Seriously I don`t think getting a FF stick helped me but I do declare that I can stall fight now with ease.

knightflyte
04-16-2005, 08:28 PM
Hey Bubba.
I have a Cyborg EVO Force in conjunction with an X45.
Decent set up, but I really thought the Logitec FF was MUCH better in FF effects.
There are forces being used in the Cyborg, and I can feel the stall envelope so it is a benifit. Just not as much as I'd like.
The Logitec lasted 6 months before the rudder wouldn't re-center. My friends was the same. To bad I liked the stick better than the EVO. Tho, I'm pretty confident that the EVO will last a lot longer than a Logitec. My Saitek X45 is almost 3 years old. The Cyborg is last years Xmas gift to me.

Logitecs FF was so good that when you DID stall the stick would go limp until you got enough air..(or should that be speed?)..under your wings to feel the buffeting.

The Cyborg was $69.00US at circuit city.
One last thing I mistakenly purchased the Cyborg RUMBLE. it only vibrates. There's no effect on the stick.

Bearcat99
04-16-2005, 09:31 PM
Unfortunately the best FB stick EVER has been discontinued but you may be able to find one on ebay. I like FFB,.. I wouldnt fly witout it.. and to that end I have a new MSFFB2 in my close un opened... so that I can use it well into thius decade and maybe the next.

rnzoli
04-17-2005, 03:36 AM
I have a Logitech FFB. It gives me much more realism, but also more difficulties to aim. Chose FFB only if you prefer realism over points. AFAIK most "on-line aces" fly precision joysticks without FFB.

alert_1
04-17-2005, 11:03 AM
No need for FF for me. Having 100% settings accross the board and I feel everything just fine..only cant hit a s*it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. But that another story...

Fliegeroffizier
04-17-2005, 12:30 PM
I can't imagine flying without the Force Feedback effect...

Most folks on these forums denigrate the logitech sticks, but mine have worked great...although one did physically "break" after about 18 months.

I have the Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D model(original price about $80). This model is no longer produced by Logitech as of about three years ago I think. About two years ago I came across an Ebay sale of 'excess' inventory(advertised though as 'refurbished') of this stick for only $20. I bought two of them for myself for life-time backups, and one for a friend who was new to flight-simming; he didn't get the flight sim bug and his kid went console...so I have a third backup if I need one sometime down the road in 15 years or so.

Of course, when BofB comes out, I "Might" go for rudder pedals, making this stick's 'twist-rudder' obsolete. BUT, WHATever stick I might possibly move to will HAVE to have Force-Feedback!!!

Mowgali
04-17-2005, 02:05 PM
I'm about half way through writing a short article inc pics on how to make a set of FFB rudder pedals using an old twist handle FFB stick such as the Wingman 3D or the Sidewinder. I'm just working through some design changes from my original, but as soon as I'm happy that it still works then I'll take some final photo's and post probably over at Simhq. I've deliberatly tried to make construction as simple as possiable, with a minimum of finacial outlay, so hopefully anyone, even with simple tools and basic DIY skills can make them. As with all projects of this type I can't promise anything but I will do my best to post as soon as I can.
Just as a matter of course I have been using a sidewinder pro succesfully as a set of rudder pedals for the last two years, unfortunatly because I now use WIN XP the FFB element only seems to work just after I re-install my sound card drivers, game port issues not supported etc, but I have just been given a logitech Wingman 3d on which I'm basing my project.

Mowgali

mazexx
04-17-2005, 02:09 PM
Mmm, I'm also interested in the feel of the Cyborg Evo Force - I have a Sidewinder FFB2 since a couple of years but I'm getting tired of it getting limp now and then in IL2 (known problem) and my hand does not like the hand rest really. So - anyone out there that has tried them both and can give some advice?

Other than the reasons stated above I agree with Bearcat, the FFB2 is really nice.

/mazex

rnzoli
04-18-2005, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mowgali:
a set of FFB rudder pedals using an old twist handle FFB stick <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean that the rudder pedals will have Force Feedback effect, just like the X-Y axes of the stick? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I would be very much surprised (and pleased http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif), because the original twist handle has no force feedback effect at all in the Logi Wingman 3D. Consequently, the pedal I built recently for it has no FF either.

Where would you derive the forces on the pedal? From the force of the virtual "centering spring" on X-Y? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

mazexx
04-24-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Unfortunately the best FB stick EVER has been discontinued but you may be able to find one on ebay. I like FFB,.. I wouldnt fly witout it.. and to that end I have a new MSFFB2 in my close un opened... so that I can use it well into thius decade and maybe the next. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I should have listened to Bearcat99...

I couldn't stop myself from buying the Cyborg Evo Force to check it out and after a couple of days it's now placed in my "spare parts box" and the MS SW FFB2 is back on my table. The forces on the Evo are to weak and it reacts to slow. The thing in the FFB2 is that you can feel the speed of the plane with the stick which is almost impossible in the Evo. The stall buffeting is also way superior in the FFB2. The thottle lever is also way better in the FFB2, both in placement and precision...

If you are looking for a FF joy and think about theese two you have my advice - go for the SW FFB2 if you can find one!

/Mazex

knightflyte
04-24-2005, 07:55 PM
It seems this topic has come up again. And after Bearcat originally posted I went to EBAY to check out the MSFFB2 stick. I'm SOOOOOOOO tempted to buy one. I really am, but I'm thinking if I ever get a new stick I'll probably try a CH HOTAS/RUDDER peddle configuration.

I REALLY miss the Logitech's FF. It was top notch as far as feedback.

If MSFFB2's feedback is that good maybe I'll wait till BoB before I get a CH.

It's strange because I like the Cyborg. But I know there's better FF out there.

And actually mazexx, you mention the stick being slow. There's something about the stick that doesn't seem JUST RIGHT. (It's CLOSE for me, but it's still just a bit off) You've put the description out there that really describes how it feels. SLOW. Not horribly slow..... just enough to mess up alignment. I adjust, but it's several flights in QMB before I get the feeling and timming right.

Bearcat99
04-24-2005, 08:49 PM
I use a MSFFB2/X-45/CH pedals setup that is the best of both worlds. I have my HOTAS AND FFB. I use the FFB throttle slider for prop pitch, the X-45 stick strictly as a button bay. I even banded the X & Y axii and I use it as a lever for my landing gear. I keep the X-45 stick on the same side as my X-45 throttle.. since I dont have to use the stick to fly. I have all my commands split between the three units.... {X-45 stick & Throttle, FFB2) so lights, comms,gear,seperate engines,map,record,gunsight,weps,views,mix,pitch,t rim,mags,supercharger,bail out,drop tanls,plane detatch,padlock,... all on my stick. And when I sayviews.. I mean wide to zoom, f1,f2,f3,f6,f7 and allthe shift,alt,ctrl varients... nice setup if I must say so myself.

mango-42
04-25-2005, 06:04 AM
Odd that no-one has mentioned the only stick that the IL2 team promote - the Thrustmaster - why is that?