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View Full Version : Realistic views from the pit?



XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:25 AM
I have sat in very few single engine planes. It has been so long I really don't remember what is was like as far as views from the cockpit ar concerned. Of course the planes I sat in had a rear window of sorts.

In many WWII planes there was that big thing behind you called armor plate or seat back, etc.

Looking forward, one could not see through the engine and nose structure like the no cockpit view enables us to accomplish with ease.

It seems to me however that an awful lot of players want to have views from the cockpit that simply were impossible in real life WWII aircraft.

Does anyone have actual photographs taken from cockpits of various WWII planes that show visibility based on the restrictions of the pilots head movement? I'd be interested to see them if they exist.

I would also like to know which view mode in the game is intended to give the most realistic views from the pilots perspective? Is this the cockpit view, the gunsight view, or a zoomed in or out modification of these two view modes? In otherwards, which view best represents what the pilot actually saw with his own two eyeballs?

What should distinguish a true simulation of WWII aerial combat from a run of the mill WWII aerial combat game? Well for one thing a realistic viewing system that does not require all these synthetic aids other than being able to manipulate ones own head, ie the hat switch, mouse or IRtrack.

Also, I think all these zoom in and out views detract from the game as well. Why can't these game developers just make the views from the pilots head position as close to what he actually could see as possible. What is realistic about pasting your face right against the gunsight and having essentially a binocular view through the gunsight?

I have said this before, KEEP THE DARN THING SIMPLE !!! If everyone had the same simple somewhat realistic views or viewing system and not all these idiotic options there would be no complaints because they wouldn't know or care about what they were missing in the first place.

WWII online had one thing going for it. Everyone had to fly with the same darn settings. There were no options in this department. I didn't witness one complaint whatsoever and everyone was happily flying around looking from their full real cockpits and enjoying themselves.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:25 AM
I have sat in very few single engine planes. It has been so long I really don't remember what is was like as far as views from the cockpit ar concerned. Of course the planes I sat in had a rear window of sorts.

In many WWII planes there was that big thing behind you called armor plate or seat back, etc.

Looking forward, one could not see through the engine and nose structure like the no cockpit view enables us to accomplish with ease.

It seems to me however that an awful lot of players want to have views from the cockpit that simply were impossible in real life WWII aircraft.

Does anyone have actual photographs taken from cockpits of various WWII planes that show visibility based on the restrictions of the pilots head movement? I'd be interested to see them if they exist.

I would also like to know which view mode in the game is intended to give the most realistic views from the pilots perspective? Is this the cockpit view, the gunsight view, or a zoomed in or out modification of these two view modes? In otherwards, which view best represents what the pilot actually saw with his own two eyeballs?

What should distinguish a true simulation of WWII aerial combat from a run of the mill WWII aerial combat game? Well for one thing a realistic viewing system that does not require all these synthetic aids other than being able to manipulate ones own head, ie the hat switch, mouse or IRtrack.

Also, I think all these zoom in and out views detract from the game as well. Why can't these game developers just make the views from the pilots head position as close to what he actually could see as possible. What is realistic about pasting your face right against the gunsight and having essentially a binocular view through the gunsight?

I have said this before, KEEP THE DARN THING SIMPLE !!! If everyone had the same simple somewhat realistic views or viewing system and not all these idiotic options there would be no complaints because they wouldn't know or care about what they were missing in the first place.

WWII online had one thing going for it. Everyone had to fly with the same darn settings. There were no options in this department. I didn't witness one complaint whatsoever and everyone was happily flying around looking from their full real cockpits and enjoying themselves.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:55 AM
Not many people fly with the pit.

If they would make the cockpit bars semi transparent to simulate a pilot with 2 eyes, then you would see alot more pilots flying it.

Until then, this "one-eyed pilot with a dog cone on his swiveled head" business is just for kicks.

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XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:01 AM
Well You know we have some guys on this forum that are involved in aircraft restoration. I say they get in one and take some pics. We also from time to time have someone visit an ex pilot from the era. Ask them to let us know, maybey they even have some old pics lying around who knows. Get busy guys the ones of you that resemble what I have stated and shut us all up please. LOL

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XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:12 AM
I am with RayBan in this cockpit view subject, please make padlock view better, alltime padlock view, now I have to always use external padlock view and it is very difficult to fly with it, I would like to have 'unrealistic' alltime padlock as some people may call it.

I would like to have ALLTIME PADLOCK VIEW and separate closer info window of the plane, like in Jane's WWII fighters, I used to fly that game and now in IL2 everything is different. Maybe somekind of two eye shadow view of cockpit with 180 degrees could be usefull also.

Any view from computer screen is very unrealistic no matter how much you try to enhance it, flying with your computer isn't actually very realistic, so all help which concerns viewing world around you is appreciated.

.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:13 AM
Hello Popov,

For me, what reminds me most of real aero's is the field of view either at the "middle" setting (30 deg) or all the way out (90 deg).

This in combination with Track IR for the ability to glance down at my instruments and around really puts me in the seat.

- Ham



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XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:29 AM
The wide 90 degree view realistically models a real pilot's field of view.

The narrow 30 degree view realistically models a real pilots visual accuity at where he is looking.

Go figure! We need both when using pixel monitor displays.

Everything in between is a compromise between the two realistic models which if we could use together, would perfectly model human vision.

To bad we can't have the wide view with visual accuity at the small area where we are looking, but that would require a wall monitor with a variable 100000 x 100000 resolution, with pixel resolution decreasing away from where our eyes are pointed.



Message Edited on 06/23/0309:30AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:49 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- If they would make the cockpit bars semi transparent
- to simulate a pilot with 2 eyes, then you would see
- alot more pilots flying it.
-
- Until then, this "one-eyed pilot with a dog cone on
- his swiveled head" business is just for kicks.


At first I thought this idea sounded sort of like the no cockpit mode. But upon further thought you may be right in a way. I suppose it would depend on how fat the obstruction is. On aircraft like the FW190 or IL-2, it may be hard to justify making the entire ironwork semi transparent.

I will be attending the local annual airshow in one week. I will try my darndest to sit in a cockpit and have a looksee. I will also pay close attention to the ironwork and formulate my own educated opinion on this topic.

If the general opinion of the masses are for this feature, then the powers that be are the ones to convince of this also.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Both LEXX Luthor and Ham appear to have the same opinion on pilots field of view ingame vs real life.

I also like the wide angle view and have used it for dogfighting to some success. The only problem is in the German planes the floating retical is not visible unless your in the gunsight view which changes the zoom slightly. This is due of course to the sight being slightly off center. Too bad they just didn't move the floating retical over into the reflector and adjust the point of impact for the guns to compensate while in the wide angle cockpit view.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 11:03 AM
If you get a chance, when looking out side the cockpit, look at the distant cars, and see if the cockpit struts (if any) split into two pieces that you can see through, with possibly some solid overlap.

This, you can try at home:: Hold up your arm *vertically* (fist up, elbow down) in front of your face and look at the far wall. Count how many arms you see. happysmiley.rbj