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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:43 AM
Rather than bump the old prepatch thread I decided to start a new one.

All testing done with wind off cockpit off. All speeds are TAS. Crimea map, starting with 100% fuel and using auto level stabilization (this resulted in slight rate of climb, but not enough to affect speeds within tolerance). All speeds are rounded to the nearest 5kph. Auto prop pitch (FW190As now have auto prop pitch)

FW190A-4
Alt. TAS RPM Man Pitch Throttle
0050 545 2400 1.38 10:07 110%
0050 530 2350 1.32 10:08 106%
0500 550 2400 1.38 10:03 110%
1000 555 2400 1.38 9:59 110%
1500 565 2400 1.38 9:57 110%
2000 570 2400 1.38 9:53 110%
2500 570 2400 1.34 9:51 110%
3000 565 2400 1.25 9:54 110%
3500 565 2400 1.38 9:53 110%

No overheating occurred except at 50m. Maximum continuous speed at 50m was 106%.

FW190A-5
Alt. TAS RPM Man Pitch Throttle
1000 560 2700 1.38 10:08 110%
1000 580 2700 1.38 10:01 110+WEP
1500 565 2700 1.38 10:09 110%
1500 590 2700 1.38 9:58 110+WEP
2000 570 2700 1.38 10:06 110%
2000 595 2700 1.38 9:54 110+WEP
2500 575 2700 1.34 10:04 110%
2500 600 2700 9:51 110+WEP
3000 600 2700 1.27 9:51 110+WEP

Observations and differences from prepatch:

-FW190A-5 is now as fast or faster than A-4 without using WEP. before the patch the A-5 without using WEP was slower than the A-4 at all but the lowest altitude.

-FW190As have auto prop pitch and other CEM refinements. Adjusting the throttle now also affects RPM and Manifold pressure, changing the throttle setting had no real effect on either before the patch.

-Supercharger now shifts at just under 3400m (was shifting at 3150m before, I think). Unfortunately there is no change in the sound the engine makes like there was before. Also the guage needle will jump momentarily at a set time interval for no good reason when below the shift altutude. And there is no noticeable performance boost when the manifold pressure jumps from the shifting of supercharger gears. Supercharger operation needs further investigation.

-Overheating is even less of a problem than before. You can now go 110% throttle and not overheat even with radiator closed. You do, however, need to be at high speed and not below 500m, at lower speeds/altitudes overheating is possible.

-I did not do any testing above 3500m. due to problems I encountered maintaining steady level flight.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:43 AM
Rather than bump the old prepatch thread I decided to start a new one.

All testing done with wind off cockpit off. All speeds are TAS. Crimea map, starting with 100% fuel and using auto level stabilization (this resulted in slight rate of climb, but not enough to affect speeds within tolerance). All speeds are rounded to the nearest 5kph. Auto prop pitch (FW190As now have auto prop pitch)

FW190A-4
Alt. TAS RPM Man Pitch Throttle
0050 545 2400 1.38 10:07 110%
0050 530 2350 1.32 10:08 106%
0500 550 2400 1.38 10:03 110%
1000 555 2400 1.38 9:59 110%
1500 565 2400 1.38 9:57 110%
2000 570 2400 1.38 9:53 110%
2500 570 2400 1.34 9:51 110%
3000 565 2400 1.25 9:54 110%
3500 565 2400 1.38 9:53 110%

No overheating occurred except at 50m. Maximum continuous speed at 50m was 106%.

FW190A-5
Alt. TAS RPM Man Pitch Throttle
1000 560 2700 1.38 10:08 110%
1000 580 2700 1.38 10:01 110+WEP
1500 565 2700 1.38 10:09 110%
1500 590 2700 1.38 9:58 110+WEP
2000 570 2700 1.38 10:06 110%
2000 595 2700 1.38 9:54 110+WEP
2500 575 2700 1.34 10:04 110%
2500 600 2700 9:51 110+WEP
3000 600 2700 1.27 9:51 110+WEP

Observations and differences from prepatch:

-FW190A-5 is now as fast or faster than A-4 without using WEP. before the patch the A-5 without using WEP was slower than the A-4 at all but the lowest altitude.

-FW190As have auto prop pitch and other CEM refinements. Adjusting the throttle now also affects RPM and Manifold pressure, changing the throttle setting had no real effect on either before the patch.

-Supercharger now shifts at just under 3400m (was shifting at 3150m before, I think). Unfortunately there is no change in the sound the engine makes like there was before. Also the guage needle will jump momentarily at a set time interval for no good reason when below the shift altutude. And there is no noticeable performance boost when the manifold pressure jumps from the shifting of supercharger gears. Supercharger operation needs further investigation.

-Overheating is even less of a problem than before. You can now go 110% throttle and not overheat even with radiator closed. You do, however, need to be at high speed and not below 500m, at lower speeds/altitudes overheating is possible.

-I did not do any testing above 3500m. due to problems I encountered maintaining steady level flight.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:45 AM
I`m sorry, but for me it`s about the immersion and how `real` it feels. Not number crunching...



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:29 AM
Excellent Fillmore!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
I did the same testing before and after the patch.
The 190 now has the low and mid alt performance it's supposed to and that's good to know.

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:43 PM
hi christos, it is good to know that you now like the 190.
it is most ludicrous that now people start whining that the fw is this good and that good.

they should have held on to it in the prepatch game, when it was hardly maneuverable, and it had so many flaws compared with the other birds.

now she is getting her well deserved place amongst the other planes. it is no more a flying brick.

halleluja

plébános

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:06 PM
Plebanos wrote:
- hi christos, it is good to know that you now like
- the 190.
- it is most ludicrous that now people start whining
- that the fw is this good and that good.
-
- they should have held on to it in the prepatch game,
- when it was hardly maneuverable, and it had so many
- flaws compared with the other birds.
-
- now she is getting her well deserved place amongst
- the other planes. it is no more a flying brick.
-
- halleluja
-
- plébános

There are also LW players saying it's overmodelled in some area's.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 02:31 PM
It might? be overmodeled in roll-rate at certain speeds,but since it so out-classed most others in that area in R.L. ,it won't make that much difference if they tone it down slightly to precise specs.
Some other people think the high-speed stall isnt modeled accurately,evidently they think it should go into a spin or fall from the sky,but I read that it was sudden without warning but with experience it could be anticipated,and that recovery was quick and easy.Basically at that speed the stall induces a snap roll.While this may be a strange quirk, that dosn't mean its totally unrealistic.But I would have to read more to know for sure.

Then theres the D.M.,now I've heard that the d9, can repeatedly survive collisions with other planes,well I've seen that with all planes throughout IL2,specifically from on-line lag.Also I think it depends on how the collision happened,like if an elevator of one plane hits the wing of another,its not out of the bounds of reality that the elevator would get ripped off only,and the wing of the other plane came off.Its happened with horizontal stabilizer with numerous aircraft also,the results of this damage is simplified obviously because of the constraints of the P.C.

Structurally,what I have read,the FW is only equalled or surpassed by certain big American fighters.
As far as elevator authority,it can't be fully used at high speeds because of the high-speed stall.





Message Edited on 08/14/0308:34AM by WalterMitty

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 02:48 PM
Fillmore:

Thanks for the numbers.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:49 PM
Ok, tried some new things introduced in patch.

-FW190As now have closed/auto radiator setting. AFAICT it is just closed, it doesn't slow the plane even when overheating, which tells me it isn't opening the cowl flaps no matter the engine temp (I wasn't aware that these planes even had such a feature. I suspect they didn't and that the setting is listed for consistency but not implemented).

-FW190As now have an auto prop pitch setting as well as a manual override (rather than the purely automated constant-speed system they had before). Although you still cannot set the FW190A-5 to the same settings as an A-4 (no way to lower the RPM to 2400 without the manifold pressure dropping), you can use manual prop pitch control to get the A-4 to perform similar to the A-5.

-By setting prop pitch to 100% (full fine) on the A-4 the engine will rev to 2650 and you will gain 10kph at 50m. I was not able to see any real performance increase in FW190A-5 by using manual pitch. I suspect that this is fairly accurate as the A-5 has a longer nose allowing for better engine mounting and engine cooling, and that is modelled by having the A-5 engine set for 2700RPM while the A-4 is set to 2400RPM.

-I have not yet tested to see how this affects performance at higher altitudes nor have I tested how it affects engine overheating. I would expect running an A-4 at 2650RPM would give similar performance to an A-5 that isn't using WEP, but with higher engine temperature.

-I forgot to check the prop pitch guage when I did my tests, so i'm not sure if an A-4 at 2650RPM will show the same pitch as an A-5 at 2700RPM (nor am I sure weather it even should. It would seem that if both planes are the same speed, same RPM and same manifold pressure that the props should show the same pitch, but maybe they didn't use identical props).

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:33 PM
190 has only 2 bugs, other one is too good roll rate at high speeds (only a couple seconds) and other is bit too good handling on insane speeds (above 600kmh). Be sure, this gets fixxed i'm sure, and does not really have an effect for FW-190 Perfomance.. FW-190 is now perhaps the best plane, so VVS-whiners have to get used to it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:05 PM
Post-patch, I've only gotten an FW (any variant that I've tested, which would be all 'cept the F-8 I think, and I think I can get the D-9 to overheat if I really, really try) to overheat at 110% throttle, WEP on, and radiator closed, and even then I'm not sure how I did it as I have been unable to duplicate that event. For the first time ever fuel is becoming an issue for me on dogfight servers, as I'm able to fly around with the engine running full-bore the entire time. I'm not complaining, mind you, I just find it unlikely that the plane was so well designed that you could do that.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:14 PM
IMPORTANT BUG JUST FOUND.

This will affect testing and changes my original conclusions. The speeds I posted above ARE the maximum level speeds but, contrary to what I thought, they are NOT the maximum continuous speeds without overheating.

When you start a QMB (I havn't tested online, I sure hope it isn't the same) your radiator setting is bugged in that it will cool the engine like "open" but it will not cause any drag. This is why my test planes never overheated. Once you change the radiator position the bug is gone and radiator will function properly.

So even though you think the plane starts in the "auto/closed" position (there was no such position for FW190As in 1.0, there it defaulted to "closed" which is why I did all my tests without ever changing the radiator position) it is actually in a bugged uber state. So before you do any testing be sure you cycle through the radiator settings to clear this bug.

I think further testing is needed on other planes. Earlier tests of mine indicated that on FW190D-9, Bf109K-4 and BF109E-4 (only ones I tested at that time) none of the radiator positions cooled the engine at all.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:30 PM
anyone notice how "flippy" the 190 becomes after even a minimal amount of damage.

seems that if someone scratches the paintwork the plane seems to become super sensitive to high speed stalls and wing drops.

http://www3.telus.net/ice51/taipans/tpn_bard.jpg (http://taipans.dyndns.org)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:32 PM
Oohhhh, bummer Fillmore, that does sound like a possible bug. I will try to look into it also. I assumed the lack of overheating was caused by the Kommandegerat system not running the engine at 'max' RPMS (you will note overheat occurs much sooner on 'manual' with full power (100%), also as you noted RPMS increase slightly on manual with full power (100%)).

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:33 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- 190 has only 2 bugs, other one is too good roll rate
- at high speeds (only a couple seconds) and other is
- bit too good handling on insane speeds (above
- 600kmh). Be sure, this gets fixxed i'm sure, and
- does not really have an effect for FW-190
- Perfomance.. FW-190 is now perhaps the best plane,
- so VVS-whiners have to get used to it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- ____________________________________

you forgot the refractionless visibility over the nose that makes deflection shooting almost impossible - still a major bug.

all an enemy has to do is pull into a tight turn one direction whilst watching the 190, as soon as they can see it firing - reverse direction because the 190 pilot is firing completely blind.

http://www3.telus.net/ice51/taipans/tpn_bard.jpg (http://taipans.dyndns.org)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:27 PM
TPN_Bard wrote:
- anyone notice how "flippy" the 190 becomes after
- even a minimal amount of damage.

I noticed that. A couple of hits in the wing and you're going to need a lot of opposite rudder to land. It can also help you evade the guy who put the holes there; snap rolls are very easy. But you may have a problem getting out of them.

The 190 also seems quite prone to crashing after any collision, while the 109/P39/La5 that was struck flies on unaffected.

Re: deflection shooting - it's not easy (it's never easy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ). However, I use the FW for deflection shooting all the time.

For anything that goes out of plane (disappears below the nose), you really have to anticipate the trajectory of the target. All fighters have a blindspot there, albeit not as large as the FW's. It's a matter of estimating where the target will be in a second or two and firing at that place.

One trick - if the target is firing at a friendly, shoot at the target's tracers. He'll soon follow them into your stream of fire.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:38 PM
WalterMitty wrote:
- It might? be overmodeled in roll-rate at certain
- speeds

Might be my arse IT IS!!!


- Some other people think the high-speed stall isnt
- modeled accurately,evidently they think it should go
- into a spin or fall from the sky,but I read that it
- was sudden without warning but with experience it
- could be anticipated,and that recovery was quick and
- easy.Basically at that speed the stall induces a
- snap roll.

Agreed but How can you antisipate the stall when you cant even hear the wing making the Pre-stall buffiting noise over the roaring motor !!!!!



- Structurally,what I have read,the FW is only
- equalled or surpassed by certain big American
- fighters.
- As far as elevator authority,it can't be fully used
- at high speeds because of the high-speed stall.

Agreed but How can you antisipate the stall when you cant even hear the wing making the Pre-stall buffiting noise !!!





<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:27 PM
I agree with Fillmore, there does appear to be a cowl flaps bug.

In a quick test I did with the FW190 A5 in quick mission builder at sea level with Erhohte Notleistung engaged and without changing the cowl flaps from their default position of 'closed/auto', the maximum speed was 575km/h. Then I did the same test again, but this time I selected 'closed/auto' manually by cycling through the cowl flaps settings. This time the plane only managed 510km/h, even though the cowl flaps where supposed to be at the same setting as before.

It seems you can have the aerodynamics of closed cowl flaps at the same time as the cooling of open cowl flaps, if you don't touch the cowl flaps setting at the start of the mission???????

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:28 PM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:

- Agreed but How can you antisipate the stall when you
- cant even hear the wing making the Pre-stall
- buffiting noise !!!

Force feedback joysticks will buffet just before the stall. I use the MS SW FFB 2.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:53 PM
JV44Rall wrote:
- AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
-
-- Agreed but How can you antisipate the stall when you
-- cant even hear the wing making the Pre-stall
-- buffiting noise !!!
-
- Force feedback joysticks will buffet just before the
- stall. I use the MS SW FFB 2.
-
-

Ya but I have close to a 300 Dollar Throttle/joystick setup & im want the sound to work as it should

Strange thing flying the p39 I can have all sounds no problem

Fly the 190a9 & sound is a problem

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:11 PM
The cowl/radiator flaps bug occurs with all planes that have an "auto/closed" setting, and it happens online too. Very easy to see from external view when flying a 109, the flaps open automatically but do not slow down the plane, cycling the radiator clears the bug, but you get it again when you respawn.

Also the oil cooler flap on the Bf109K-4 never opens, resulting in overheating that cannot be cleared by opening the radiators (I suspect that the same thing is happening with all Bf109s as well as the FW190D-9s).

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:50 PM
Fillmore wrote:
- The cowl/radiator flaps bug occurs with all planes
- that have an "auto/closed" setting, and it happens
- online too. Very easy to see from external view
- when flying a 109, the flaps open automatically but
- do not slow down the plane, cycling the radiator
- clears the bug, but you get it again when you
- respawn.
-

Yes, it happened to the 109 E-7 I flew a couple of days ago as well and it happened to me pre-patch with the A-9 as well.
I didn't touch radiators again until after the patch but it appears to be there.
Just don't touch the radiators.
If you do, you'll have to cycle through to the position that will give you your top speed back, and that is not auto/closed.
I don't know if it will overheat easier after that though.

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:30 AM
How ironic. A real bug is found and hardly anyone cares. They're too worried about a second or two of roll rate to notice when something's really broken. Oh well, I hope someone who matters notices this one amidst all the garbage.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:13 AM
ok the roll rate seems fine to me but if its off its off by one second if that. will one second off its current roll rate make any difference. i dont think it will so roll rate is fine in my book.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:50 AM
Bug report form

1. Version Number

1.1b

2. Computer (complete info. including versions and type of video/sound drivers and type of online connection)

DSL CONNECTION

ALL CURENT DRIVERS & BIOSES FOR SAID HARDWARE

Abit.KX7.333.Rev.1.1
XP.2100
O/S Win XP Pro
1 GIG.Samsung.2700.DDR
Built by ATi 9500Pro
SB Live.Platnum.Breakoutbox
HotswapBay.WD.30.20gig.7200rpm
Creative.54xcdrom/20.10.40 cdrw
19" Viewsonic.Mntr.
Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 speakers
Sony.MDR.V600.headphones
CH-Products.Combatstick.565f.usb
CH-Products.ProThrottle.usb

3. Bug/Defect Description

This is a sound related Bug

4. Describe steps to reproduce the bug (detailed)

Load the Game, get in a P39n1

Start the Engine, Lower Flaps to takeoff position (you can hear the flaps lower, Please take note of that)

Now take off, Raise the Flaps, Raise the Gear (you can Hear the flaps & the Gear Retract Please take note of that)

Now Get some speed then Turn hard, Just before its going to stall You can hear the Pre-stall Buffiting Sound (take note of that)

Now get in The FW190a9 Repete the same as above You canot hear The Flaps or the Gear or MOST IMPORTANT the Pre-stall Buffiting Noise

This is preaty important the buffiting noise & being able to hear it in the FW I didnt test them all but Im sure its the same for all FW & probly the 109's



<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:56 AM
Fillmore wrote:
- The cowl/radiator flaps bug occurs with all planes
- that have an "auto/closed" setting, and it happens
- online too. Very easy to see from external view
- when flying a 109, the flaps open automatically but
- do not slow down the plane, cycling the radiator
- clears the bug, but you get it again when you
- respawn.
-
- Also the oil cooler flap on the Bf109K-4 never
- opens, resulting in overheating that cannot be
- cleared by opening the radiators (I suspect that the
- same thing is happening with all Bf109s as well as
- the FW190D-9s).


Fillmore Did you report BOLTH of these bugs ???

To 1C ?

I belive this same thing is happaning too the g6as it overheats like mad now because of the second Bug you listed

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:59 AM
Now, does anyone know for sure if Fw 190A had cowl flaps at all ?

<center>http://easyweb.globalnet.hr/easyweb/users/ntomlino/uploads/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:02 AM
A.K.Davis wrote:
- How ironic. A real bug is found and hardly anyone
- cares. They're too worried about a second or two of
- roll rate to notice when something's really broken.
- Oh well, I hope someone who matters notices this one
- amidst all the garbage.


How Ironic that You dont report the Bug to 1C yourself or say something positive...

Instead of not wanting the Overmodled Roll Rate corrected
Wonder why ? Its a bug as well, dont step on our thred





<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:06 AM
Hristos wrote:
- Now, does anyone know for sure if Fw 190A had cowl
- flaps at all ?
-

*****Edited for sanity sake*****

Message Edited on 08/20/0306:08AM by AFJ_Murdoc

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:44 AM
up

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:12 PM
yes, I have reported 5 or 6 bugs so far, and got a reply today about one of my reports.

The supercharger behaves differently now than in 1.0 and Oleg emailed me to say that "It should be buy this way." hehe, classic Olegish.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:33 PM
No.

No cowl flaps on A-series Focke-Wulfs.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:57 PM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
-
- A.K.Davis wrote:
-- How ironic. A real bug is found and hardly anyone
-- cares. They're too worried about a second or two of
-- roll rate to notice when something's really broken.
-- Oh well, I hope someone who matters notices this one
-- amidst all the garbage.
-
-
- How Ironic that You dont report the Bug to 1C
- yourself or say something positive...
-
- Instead of not wanting the Overmodled Roll Rate
- corrected
- Wonder why ? Its a bug as well, dont step on our
- thred

Because I'm busy testing other aircraft to determine if the problem with default vs. player radiator settings is universal. I don't fire of bug reports just cause I "feel" like something is wrong (and I definitely "feel" like something is wrong with overheating and radiators).

Now, if the roll rate is overmodelled, then it is simply overmodelled. It is neither broken, not-functioning or functioning in an illogical manner. It works as you would logically expect it to, even if it doesn't quite match historical specs. It is not a bug. Now if the plane rolled to the right when you pushed the stick to the left, that would be a bug.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:35 PM
FW190fan wrote:

No.

No cowl flaps on A-series Focke-Wulfs.



What type of cooling system did these planes have, and did the cooling system cause more aerodynamic drag when providing cooling at higher engine temperatures?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:44 PM
WooHooToYou wrote:

- What type of cooling system did these planes have,
- and did the cooling system cause more aerodynamic
- drag when providing cooling at higher engine
- temperatures?


Fan assisted cooling and a system of internal baffles that routed and delivered air for both cooling and combustion.

This eliminated the need for drag inducing external cooling flaps, etc. No greater drag at either high or low engine temperatures.

For more in-depth info look for the radiator threads over in ORR going on right now.

The question is: Do phantom cowl flaps cause drag-induced speed loss for the A-series Focke-Wulfs? If so, why?





<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:04 PM
FW190fan wrote:

- The question is: Do phantom cowl flaps cause
- drag-induced speed loss for the A-series
- Focke-Wulfs? If so, why?



This is exactly the same thought that crossed my mind.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:15 PM
It appears after some testing that different radiator settings do in fact lead to slower speeds for the FW190.

Strange indeed.




<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:03 PM
bump

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:11 PM
Another question for you FW190fan.


I've just been doing a bit of 'research' and the engine cooling on the A series was mainly provided by the twelve-blade engine cooling fan mounted directly behind the propeller.

Was the rotation speed of this cooling fan and the angle of the blades themselves adjustable?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:28 PM
- FW190fan wrote:
-
- No.
-
- No cowl flaps on A-series Focke-Wulfs.
-

Wrong !!!
There were cool flaps, they were activited through an handcrank on the dashboard. Check top of page eight in part 7 of the 190 manual.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:51 PM
Has anyone tested turn-rate/energy-bleed? How exactly do you perform such a test? Reason why I ask is that the A4 & A5 feel a lot more vivid now than they did in 1.0.

I´m not really into testing right now as I´m busy with my studies - but I´m into feeling now & then - & it feels "funny" but perhaps I got used to the "heavy" feeling of the FW190s (?).

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:44 PM
Hello butch2k!


butch2k wrote:

- Wrong !!!
- There were cool flaps, they were activited through
- an handcrank on the dashboard.

Yes, I am aware of the ventilation flap control lever located above the fuel gauge. It is my understanding that these controlled the egress of exhaust from the cooling louvers or "gills" located behind and on each side of the engine.

However, this cooling arrangement is different from the typical external cowl flaps on aircraft such as the P-47, F4U or even the long-nose 190s with annular radiators such as the Dora. When these aircraft activate the cowl flaps they open outward and into the airstream.

It is my understanding that the cooling louvers on the A-series Focke-Wulfs do not open outward (externally) into the airstream. This is from Janes "Fighting Aircraft of WWII":

"...a system of internal baffles had made it possible to eliminate all external cowling excrecences."



-Check top of page
- eight in part 7 of the 190 manual.
-
- Butch


I would absolutely love to do this but I don't own this manual/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Do you know where I can get it?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif






<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:45 PM
Is someone saying that the 190 shouldn't be slowed down by opening the radiator? Opening the radiator to different settings has a huge effect on speed right now, I've said this many times. But then why even have the radiator open and close with the auto setting, why wouldn't the radiator always be open? I'm confused.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:42 PM
kyrule2 wrote:

- Is someone saying that the 190 shouldn't be slowed
- down by opening the radiator?


Not necessarily, but the cooling arrangement would seem to induce less drag than some other arrangements.






<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 02:14 AM
Ok, back to where I started now that I know about the radiator bug at mission start. Today I set out to find maximim continuous speeds without overheating. Crimea map 100% fuel auto pitch radiator closed. Speeds rounded to nearest 5kph.

FW190A-4.

Alt(m) TAS RPM Man. Pitch Throttle

0050 530 2350 1.32 10:08 105%

0500 540 2350 1.32 10:02 106%

1000 540 2350 1.31 10:00 105%

2000 555 2350 1.30 9:52 105%

4000 565 2300 1.29 9:43 104%

Then I tried with manual pitch at 0%. At 50m this allowed me to run 107% throttle (lower RPM so higher throttle without overheat), but the speed was bad so I didn't continue.

Using manual pitch set at 100% gave great results as follows:

0050 535 2550 1.38 10:29 103%

0500 545 2550 1.38 10:24 103%

1000 555 2550 1.38 10:20 103%

2000 565 2550 1.38 10:12 103%

4000 580 2550 1.38 10:04 102%

As you can see the approximately 10kph speed advantage given by using 100% pitch also holds for maximum continuous speed as well as max emergency speed. I see no reason to fly in any configuration other than 100% prop pitch, you get more thrust from the prop while the engine is generating the same heat, and you have a higher top end.

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 06:22 AM
-FW190fan wrote:
-
- Yes, I am aware of the ventilation flap control
- lever located above the fuel gauge. It is my
- understanding that these controlled the egress of
- exhaust from the cooling louvers or "gills" located
- behind and on each side of the engine.
-

The exhaust got out from cowling just in front of the gills, the gills were used to expel hot air fromp the back of the engine.


- It is my understanding that the cooling louvers on
- the A-series Focke-Wulfs do not open outward
- (externally) into the airstream. This is from Janes
- "Fighting Aircraft of WWII":
-
- "...a system of internal baffles had made it
- possible to eliminate all external cowling
- excrecences."
-

They did open on the exterior into the exhaust slipstream, check some 190 picture, or better, detail pictures. It probably disturbed the exhaust thrust.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 04:00 AM
Ok, massive Fw190A-5 CEM testing here. These are all done for maximum speed without overheating, radiator closed. Crimea map, which I think must be the hottest because online and in my campaigns I can use much higher settings without overheat.

Alt. TAS RPMs ATAs Pitch Throttle Prop
0050 535 2450 1.22 9:57 94+WEP auto
0050 540 2600 1.34 10:17 105% auto
0050 550 2700 1.38 10:17 94+WEP 100%
0050 545 2800 1.38 10:37 103% 100%

0500 550 2550 1.28 10:00 100+WEP auto
0500 545 2650 1.34 10:14 106% auto
0500 575 2800 1.38 10:20 103+WEP 100%
0500 550 2800 1.38 10:31 103% 100%

1000 575 2600 1.34 9:57 105+WEP auto
1000 550 2600 1.34 10:09 105% auto
1000 580 2800 1.38 10:16 103+WEP 100%
1000 555 2800 1.38 10:28 103% 100%

2000 590 2600 1.34 9:50 105+WEP auto
2000 565 2600 1.34 10:03 105% auto
2000 595 2800 1.38 10:09 103+WEP 100%
2000 575 2800 1.38 10:21 103% 100%

4000 500 2600 1.34 9:43 105+WEP auto
4000 575 2600 1.33 9:56 105% auto
4000 605 2600 1.38 10:02 102+WEP 100%
4000 575 2600 1.38 10:16 102% 100%

The conclusion is that you should always fly with 100% prop, never use auto, and always use WEP.

For comparison I did an LA5FN (most challenging opponent. need every bit out of that FW) vs FW settings (100%/auto). The LA5FN used 100% throttle but no WEP (wep makes it overheat).

LA5FN FW190A5
0050 555 550/535

0500 565 575/550

1000 575 580/575

2000 590 595/590

4000 585 605/600

As you can see a FW using auto settings will get creamed down low, but by using 100% prop setting you have a chance. I tested it today on a 1943 server and it was noticeably better than yesterday (I was using auto then), I made sure to stay around 500m when I hit the deck to run away and my survival was much better as a result (yesterday I was hitting the deck at nap of earth with auto prop and they were catching me easily).

Remember these aren't max speeds, just max without overheating. The LA5FN was odd, I tried shifting supercharger to stage2 at low altitude (I had heard this gave boosted power prepatch), but it lowered the power. Seemed slow at 4000m so I tried stage2 again, but it had no effect (didnt kill the power, nor boost it). Used 100% prop pitch for LA, has no auto setting, didn't try lower settings.