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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:07 AM
Hi;

I'm sure that many "luftwaffe lovers" don't will like-me after this post (don't care, ehehe), but i really think that the damage model of the FW-190 is overmodeled.
It can get many shots, even on the cockpit, and nothing happens to the plane. I even can't see a hole on the fuselage and/or at a wing... WOW, and the roll rate is really incredible. Look's like it have the same roll rate at low and high speeds. Please, give your opinion about that.

Thanks

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:07 AM
Hi;

I'm sure that many "luftwaffe lovers" don't will like-me after this post (don't care, ehehe), but i really think that the damage model of the FW-190 is overmodeled.
It can get many shots, even on the cockpit, and nothing happens to the plane. I even can't see a hole on the fuselage and/or at a wing... WOW, and the roll rate is really incredible. Look's like it have the same roll rate at low and high speeds. Please, give your opinion about that.

Thanks

http://sites.uol.com.br/disco_virtual/cmte_carvalho/compartilhada/Forgotten_Battles/Assinatura_IV.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:41 AM
Depends.

It may not succumb easily to structural failure, but the effects are certainly noticeale as a pilot. Sometimes I would be hit and my 190 wouldn't feel a thing, other times a hit to the wing(especially the wing root area) causes the wing to droop down, indicating clear damage and loss of lift - despite it cannot be confirmed visually.

The texture of the plane changes, overlapping it with alpha masking per level of damage indicated. This is what makes us perceive visual damage. However, some damages it seems, are just under the level of showing it visually, but still a lot more than 'nothing'.





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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:49 AM
FW is an odd beast right now. Yes the roll rate at high speeds is probably overmodeled. Its a tough plane to bring down online...but its quirky when you fly it. Have you flown it for a significant amount of time yet?

You'll quickly find that while catastrophic damage that you get in say a La-5 or La-7 or in a Bf 109 does not happen so often (it was a tougher plane, not sure if this is quite properly modeled in FB) light damage can be enough to make the plane combat ineffective.

A couple of MG hits to the wing can drag the plane down so much that any manuver will drop you out of the sky into a spin and crash.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:57 AM
I agree that people are confusing the exterior skin damage to what is actually happening.

If you remember one of the improvements of FB over IL2 was the increase in the DM fidelity. I am pretty certain that this was NOT accompianied by an update in the damage textures. I fly the Fw190 alot and I know that I'm flying a solid plane but I also know that a solid burst of fire into my wing means I cease to be an offensive threat. It's time to egress land and live to fight another day. It's just the fact that my oponent, madly shift-F2 viewing my plane, can't know that I've got major control problems.

This is in no way a criticism of the damage textures either. The time required to re-jig these textures is, in my opinion, not justfied.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:00 AM
Well i can say the same thing about the overmodeled Yaks and LAs. So do like i do live with it and fight your plane the way its been modeled to be fought



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:04 AM
Yeah, like the others have said. Yes, the high speed roll rate is overmoddled. And i've taken a few mg hits to the wing, which show as very tiny holes, and yet when i pull up, the plane banks sharply to that side.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:06 AM
its overmodeled but so is the lagg3 la7 and all yaks


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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:08 AM
I have flew the FW-190 sometimes, and i swear to all you: i had take many hits, at my wing, at the canopy, the fuselage... Nothing happens to the plane, it still like new... Oh, and you want to know what airplane shot on me? Another FW-190 with MK-108 wingcannons...

I was flying the A9 version... That's it.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:30 AM
You havn't spent any time in it then. You can blast the fuselage all day without effect but hits to the cockpit with anything larger than a 7.62mm will kill the pilot. Hits to the engine with 20mm's or larger will kill it and any hit to the wing is usually crippling. The problem is the Fw 190's have really crappy damaged textures. It gives the appearence of no damage when it is actually swiss cheese. Another problem is most planes in FB are way too tough. In real life it took an average of 4-5 20mm hits to down most fighters, in FB it takes an average of 40-50. The only plane that has a good damage model is the Bf 109's, all others take 10 times as much damage as they should. The Fw 190's roll rate is a little overmodeled but the La-7's climb rate is over 20% higher than it should be. The Fw's slightly overmodeled roll rate is insignificant compared to many of the other problems in FB. If you want to whine about a damage model, I suggest the LaGG-3 S4, it takes more bullets to down than any other plane in FB except the TB-3.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:41 AM
As a P39 pilot i can say a 37mm is not enough to bring down a FW. You shot to shoot off the wings to get him with one shot (not an easy thing to do where you're on his six). The fuselage is as thick as tank armour.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:42 AM
I meant "have to shoot" sorry.

[btw how do you edit posts in here??]

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:44 AM
The La-7 with 3xB20 cannons will ruin any Fw-190 with a quick burst to the wing or wing root.

With anything else (like P-47) you need to pummel them a lot to get the desired result.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:52 AM
I think the DM to the FW 190 is pretty good. All accounts i have read from Luftwaffe and USAAF pilots state how tough it was to down a 190. American pilots stated that it took a much longer burst of .50 cal to knock out a 190 compared to a 109. Take on some 190's in a P-47 and you'll see what they're talking about.



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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:17 AM
Wait, your trying to tell me, that you survived several hits from a mk108... in patch v 1.11... what did he hit, your landing gear?

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:50 AM
rgr BS87,

Must've been duds /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It's certainly harder to knock down a maneuvering Fw190 in a Jug but catch one straight and level at your convergance range and he won't last much at all. Convergance in the Jug really effects snapshots' effectiveness.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:21 AM
The FW-190 has a sever desire to kill it's pilot I think. I flew one online and all but one time I was shot down was due not to damage but the pilot getting blasted.

First time was diving through some canyons cranking it about trying to shake my bogey into the walls. Suddely MG fire raked my fuselage. Pilot killed I could see the glass blown out the back of the cockpit. Watched the slow roll of death ensue.

That was repeated several times except once where I got my left wing all shot up at low altitude while I was in a hard turn. The result was not good at all.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:54 AM
Maj_Death and a few others hit the keys to downing FWs. Much like the Yaks, pepper the wing and she handles like flying dog crap. The pit and engine are the next most vulnerable. I know it takes a bit longer, but if you're careful and aim for only weak spots, you'll start downing more FWs online.

I always go in this order, first damage wings, then go for pilot kill if he's a climber, but if he's one of those particularly slippery FW pilots, smack that engine. The A9's got a big nose and that blue ring is a nice target./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Message Edited on 09/15/0301:55AM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 07:51 AM
Yawn.

want to bit#h about DMs start with the P-39 and yAK3...
Give it up VVS boy. You'll never whine the Butcher into submission. "Learn how to fly."

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:06 AM
the yak9t explodes the 190s with one tail hit


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