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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:40 PM
read this thread.. you will read somewere that quoting " oleg and dimas decesion to balance the game "

looks like FB is no longer a SIM, in my eye's it is now a air quake game!



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"I love the Butcherbird"

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:40 PM
read this thread.. you will read somewere that quoting " oleg and dimas decesion to balance the game "

looks like FB is no longer a SIM, in my eye's it is now a air quake game!



http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/yunus%20sig.jpg


"I love the Butcherbird"

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:43 PM
Yawn....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.downloadcounter.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?username=James_Jones&account=705).

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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:48 PM
Pffffft. N00b.

-------------------------------------
Sigs are over rated. Screw them. Screw them all.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:56 PM
JZG_Yunus wrote:
- read this thread.. you will read somewere that
- quoting " oleg and dimas decesion to balance the
- game "
-
- looks like FB is no longer a SIM, in my eye's it is
- now a air quake game!

With girlie Padlock and wonder woman view, it was always going to go that way. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 01:14 PM
Well that's your opinion.Mine is that you're too sensitive.No one can say that there is or ever was a better flight sim than IL2/FB.
The ZUIKAKU SENTOKI TAI could be torpedoing your ship next.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:09 PM
Eh?

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

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My garage!

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:14 PM
1% cfs3 and cfs2 fms, il2 clearly takes the cake in better graphics tho


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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:21 PM
I agree this does not look good, would like to know what oleg has to say about this....

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:11 PM
JZG_Yunus wrote:
- read this thread.. you will read somewere that
- quoting " oleg and dimas decesion to balance the
- game "
-

Balancing doesn't necessary mean unrealistic FM. It may mean that the plane set needs to be balanced

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:14 PM
JZG_Yunus wrote:
- read this thread.. you will read somewere that
- quoting " oleg and dimas decesion to balance the
- game "
-
- looks like FB is no longer a SIM, in my eye's it is
- now a air quake game!
-
-
-


You've lost me. Read what thread?

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:37 PM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
-
-
- You've lost me. Read what thread?

I think he's talking about this thread: /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zuncb

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:14 PM
Here it folks the reason plain and simple. IL-2 has gained tremendous publicity from many sorces. Causing many new gamers who have never ventured into the flighsim genre to buy this game. Oleg and his team has opted for balance instead of realism to keep these newbies. They dont want newbies getting frustrated and uninstalling it from there harddrives which will leave no hope for them to buy any new games in the IL-2 series. Its all about the $$$. Many other devlopers and publishers have done this. They abandon there dedicated fan base in the "niche" market to get little kids to tell there parents they was IL-2 for Christmas. Hey! I just call them as I see them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





Message Edited on 09/20/0309:45PM by VMF-214_HaVoK

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:33 PM
Make sure to read http://www.vow-hq.com/index.php?page=forum&action=topic&id=1830&start=160 while you're over there.



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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:42 PM
yes, thats the thread that I ment,

sorry in my heart break forgot to add the link
clint-ruin wrote:
- Make sure to read http://www.vow-hq.com/index.php?page=forum&action=topic&id=1830&start=160 while
- you're over there.

and no they dont mean balancing the plane set, but undermodeling the 109's delibaratly to balance the combat field in favor of the reds.

quoting ROSS Youss who has good contact with Oleg.


"by my opinion: BF have 2 problems.

1. Strange DM. Controls and Engine can be damaged by 2-5 hits 7.62
2. Slow acceleration rate in 200-350 km/h

All other specs are ok. This 2 problems i reported in MG before ships 1.11

Changes in speed, climb, mass - are Oleg and Dimas choise for balance game."

you can find this post in the link mentioned before, it's on page 15 of the thread.





"I love the Butcherbird"

Message Edited on 09/20/03 05:43PM by JZG_Yunus

Message Edited on 09/20/0305:47PM by JZG_Yunus

ZG77_Nagual
09-20-2003, 06:44 PM
FMs are the best they've been - fluff about 'game balance' is drama by whiners and misunderstanding.

Get over it.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:51 PM
"Oleg and his team has opted for balance instead of realism to keep these newbies"

That sounds silly to me,what are he difficulty settings for,then?
So they can please everyone from arcade to full realism fan!

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:52 PM
Yunus, the link I posted is to a couple of pages later, where Youss explains the now-infamous 'game balance' comment.



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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 08:22 PM
JZG_Yunus wrote:

- quoting ROSS Youss who has good contact with Oleg.
[...]
- "by my opinion: BF have 2 problems...

How is an admitted opinion from some guy who allegedly is in contact with Oleg supposed to amount to anything more than hearsay?

I don't understand the mindset of the people who constantly throw around accusations of bias...and continue to play the game. Are there really that many masochists out there? If it's that bad, just uninstall it. Believe it or not, your absence here and on HL will do nothing to detract from my enjoyment of FB.


---
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(If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit here.)

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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 08:57 PM
RE: all read this, sad news!

<center> <img src=http://www.geocities.com/g8tr45/catreadingnewspapercan.txt>


Message Edited on 09/20/0307:58PM by steve_v

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Hee!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/mortimer3.jpg

Nevermore!</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 09:18 PM
DrDave242 wrote:

- How is an admitted opinion from some guy who
- allegedly is in contact with Oleg supposed to amount
- to anything more than hearsay?
-
- I don't understand the mindset of the people who
- constantly throw around accusations of bias...and
- continue to play the game. Are there really that
- many masochists out there? If it's that bad, just
- uninstall it. Believe it or not, your absence here
- and on HL will do nothing to detract from my
- enjoyment of FB.


Guess u fly reds then? People are constantly throwing accusations of bias because oleg is doing very little erm nothing to show otherwise, this game is becoming a VVS fantasy turkey shoot and it obviously pleases some of you who must fly these UFO's most or all of the time.

Their are some of us that play this sim erm game for its realism but at the moment it aint delivering remember its supposed to be the most authentic ww2 flight sim to date or so 1c claim so people have a right to complain about FM greavances.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 09:22 PM
its "niche"

Tedious unoriginal philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:14 PM
In most cases, based on all I've seen around here and elsewhere over the last several months, almost without exception, the real problem is with the pilot, not the plane.

I'm certainly not the best pilot out there, but I can hold my own when flying anything against anyone.

Hell, last night I was on a DF server and at one point it was 3 against 1 (I was the "one"). While I wasn't winning the engagements, I wasn't exactly getting my *** handed to me either. For each aircraft I flew, I'd typically manage 2.5 "kills" before being shot down myself. Usually it was one direct kill, one "maneuver" kill, and at least some visible damage done to the 3rd. This was mostly done while flying a Buffalo (a plane I've never really used before) vs LAs, K4s and P39s.

I still do fairly well in something like a P-11c. In some cases I may only manage about a 1:1 kill ratio, but when flying something like a P11 vs a late model La or 109 or 190, I don't think that's all that bad.

The sim is great, and the overall FM is good. If you're having serious problems, I respectfully suggest looking closely in the mirror. Any halfway decent pilot should be able to at least hold their own no matter what they find themselves flying.

I can understand being disappointed when your favorite airframe doesn't seem to live up to your expectations, but honestly, most of the "whining" I've seen around here is from people who don't know the first thing about flying a real aircraft, or understand basic aerodynamics.

That in itself isn't necessarily a problem, but many of those same people seem to figuratively stick their fingers in their ears and hum loudly when an honest attempt is made to help set them straight.

ZG77_Nagual
09-20-2003, 10:23 PM
Here Here Binary Falcon

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:27 PM
Meow.....

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="red"><B/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif I am... RayBanJockey...(black sabbath in the background playing I am Ironman)[/B][/i]</FONT>

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:27 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't have problems flying the 109? I can usually handle whatever the Russkies throw at me. Maybe it's luck..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:33 PM
of course, it's morei n the hands of the pilots then of there plane to get kills or win Battles in VEF. and I'm not saying I have difficulty winning fights with the crap we have now that is called a Bf-109.
anyways, I' really stopped caring if this game is realistic or not, I will still fight and win.
but what anoys me is, in VEF or VOW. ( which I used to enjoy earlier ) is that:

1: The VVS Planes are sumhow better withstanding the lead OKL throws at them. I mean I can empty my whole magazine on a Lagg or I-16 from a 109F2 and only kill him if I shoot the pilot.

2: even while starting a fight from a height advantage, and BnZ ing my opponents, I cant extend safly away which should be possible with my build up speed because of super climb rate of the other guys wingmen who climb high while I engage one of them and set a trap.

3: While I fight I have to cool down after every zoom and Lagg's can go with 110% and never overheat. and even if they do, it takes 2 times longer for them to kill there engine then it whould take a 109.

I shall stick to dogfighting servers now, cause no sence playing war missions in 109's with such flightmodels and armement and being outnumbered and expect to win often,

regards.





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"I love the Butcherbird"

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:38 PM
I don't doubt that some VVS planes are overmodelled,but I don't think there is as much wrong with the 109 as some people claim...

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:47 PM
do you know any history about the 109?
have you read books about them? I've seen a couple of the original climb and loud-out weight charts for 109F1 till 109L model.

if you have flown the 109G2 and the 109G6 early model in game, I'm sure you noticed the huge diffrence in turn rate, climb, speed and accelaration.

the big diffrence between the 109G2 and G6 in real live was that it had a diffrent radio and G6 had mg 131 instead of mg 17.
all this results in a weight diffrence of only 80 kilo's equiped weight.
mind what I say now, equiped weight, this means it is combat loaded with the ecception of fuel and pilot weight. rest is identical to G2. same airframe, same engine.

do you really think that a diffrence of 80 kilo's would result in such a big diffrence in the above mentioned flying caracteristics?

regards



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"I love the Butcherbird"

Message Edited on 09/20/0309:48PM by JZG_Yunus

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 11:02 PM
Just to add a bit more to the whole debate, I came across something in a recent issue of AOPA magazine that nicely summarizes what I've been saying for a while now.

The article is discussing the ferry flight of two, brand new Diamond C1 Eclipse aircraft to Colorado.


"Although the two aircraft being ferried were identically equipped, each is handmade and slight differences were apparent. Gauch could outclimb me, but I could go faster in level flight."

-AOPA Pilot, Delivery for the Air Force, August 2003, p.73

Seemingly identical planes are not truly identical when it comes to performance in real life. In a sim, they will be. If the sim numbers differ slightly from the charts you have access to, it should not be a surprise. Ballpark is what you're looking for. If it's within about 5-10%, it's probably as close as you can reasonably hope for.

Now before someone points to the "each is handmade" part to try and discredit this, remember that basically all aircraft during WW2 were hand made, and most today still are.

The fact that Oleg continues to work on this sim, and continues to post information about current and upcoming work (even if it's less often than before) despite the overall tone of the forums is a huge credit to his commitment.

I'm sure he has a vision for what the sim should be, tempered by the realities of computer hardware and market limitations. Maybe he's also got a really thick skin, and maybe he's already figured out that no matter what he does, people aren't going to be happy.

When so many people are involved, often the best solution you can hope for is one that annoys everyone about equally.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 11:59 PM
ok, but how much could he outclimb him, and how much was the other plane faster?? if is mear m/s or km/h then you are right. but that is not the case with the G2 and G6 in FB the diffrence is huge!
with a G2 I stand a Fighting chance against La 5 without breaking a sweat. in a G6 I still stand a chance, but I need to work substanialy harder.




http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/yunus%20sig.jpg


"I love the Butcherbird"