PDA

View Full Version : hardware strategies for the flightsim future?



F19_Orheim
10-22-2007, 02:54 AM
Some questions:


Q1: As I am now contemplating on new hardware, will there be/is there any difference performancewise in GAMING between dual and quad processorns?, i.e will the processor still be the bottleneck, or will focus rather be in gfx cards and RAM in the future?

Q2: Now to gfx cards. Are we waiting for new technology? The last time I built myself a rig, I got an AGP card. A few months later we had PCI. Nice timing for me :?

Q3: Should one go for SLI?

And yes.. SoW, Il2 and KoTS will pretty much be the only games installed on the harddrive.

LEXX_Luthor
10-22-2007, 04:00 AM
I think game developers are still just beginning to take a first look at 2-core processors, at least combat flight The Sims developers who don't have the resources that the big boy gaming developers have.


And yes.. SoW, Il2 and KoTS will pretty much be the only games installed on the harddrive.

F19_Orheim
10-22-2007, 07:21 AM
it's a jungle out there for a novice...

What to get:
Core 2 Duo Quad Core...or
Core 2 Duo Dual Core... or
Core 2 Duo Single Core ....

geez

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2007, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Q1: As I am now contemplating on new hardware, will there be/is there any difference performancewise in GAMING between dual and quad processorns?,

As Lexx said, until the developers start writing code to capitalize on the additional processors, then the resounding answer would be no. A really good dual-core should do anything you want to do right now and for the next year. You can avoid some future issue, thoug, by getting a motherboard that supports both dual and quad core technologies and simply upgrade them in a year or so when it actually becomes relevant.



Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Q2: Now to gfx cards. Are we waiting for new technology? The last time I built myself a rig, I got an AGP card. A few months later we had PCI. Nice timing for me :?


I'm using PCIX right now, but still in the 7900 series of gfx cards. My setup rocks through everything I throw at it with high settings. I'd get still better performance from the addition of an 8800 series card, but to what end? For me, I'm skipping the 8800 series (though the jury's still out on G92 as speculation is all over the board on it). I don't see much good in running at 1920x1200, 4xAA, 8xAF and getting 52 frames or running the same settings and getting 62 frames. An 8800 isn't justified for me. On the other hand, if you're still in the 6800 series architecture (or even 7600 or so), then I'd say grab an 8800 in the next 30 days or so. The 8800GT's should be out then and all the others including the GTX will be coming down.



Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Q3: Should one go for SLI?

I like having a mobo that's sli-capable, but a single decent VC does just fine. Unless you're running crazy-high resolutions (like higher than 1600x1200 ALL THE TIME!) then no, you don't need sli.



Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
And yes.. SoW, Il2 and KoTS will pretty much be the only games installed on the harddrive.

The jury's still out on the hardware requirements of the first and last in your triumvirate, but the technology out right now makes IL2:46 scream and look amazing.

TB

Deedsundone
10-22-2007, 07:36 AM
http://www.sweclockers.com/
That´s good site for asking what to get.
Most people gonna say to get Quad 6600 and overclock it.I got a C2D E6850 and quite happy with it.
About gfx cards there is 8800GT wich is suppose to beat my old 8800 GTS 640mb from what I´ve read so they gonna release a new version of 8800 GTS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SLI have no clue about it though.Some say good things about it,some dosen´t.

Sokol__1
10-22-2007, 07:40 AM
Comparative 2 x 4 in Anandtech.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3038&p=8

Sokol1

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2007, 08:07 AM
Good link Sokol__1,

As suspected, it shows multithreaded apps like video encoding and system benchmarks actually benefit from the quad while games (at least right now and for the foreseeable future) perform better with dual cores.

Like I said, I'd get a good dual core for now with prices incredibly low and availability in good order, but hedge the bet by getting a mobo that supports quad.


TB

Worf101
10-22-2007, 08:10 AM
Orheim...

I'm in the same boat but I won't build until NEXT year, probably in the second quarter. By then (hopefully) AMD will have gotten it's head out of its arse and put out some competitive chips again. ATI is doing good again Nvidia with the new 2900 drivers. But the two headed monster should have it's next gen product out my June 2008 at which time I'll be asking the same questions you are.

Da Worfster

LEBillfish
10-22-2007, 08:17 AM
Just my 2 cents worth (ok fine is worth less then that)....Anywho....

I'd really like to upgrade now, (2.53Ghz 533fsb, 1Gig outdated ram, 6600 AGP card etc.)...and would bet that if I bought top of the line I'd be all set for KotS, SoW-BoB, etc...

However, where in I'm betting developers "knowing" what the current level of hardware is, and what's yet to be released planning, most would develop to the high end current availability or what will be "new" product low end by the time it's released.....

SO!...That said, I'm thinking I will not buy now, instead waiting for the release of the software dictating what I will need, then will purchase NOT top shelf hardware yet a step down as it is always significantly less expensive YET so close to the latest and greatest there is little difference.

What that translates to then is having something well past what the software requires, most likely even getting newer technology then was planned for (what if core quatro 16 core http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif).....Yet at what is a very reasonable price vs. latest and greatest gouging. What I did when FB came out, and that system has lasted me what, close to 5 years yet at a price easily half of what the very top end equipment cost (whole thing was under $1k U.S. with many top shelf components just stepping down a notch in processor)........Additionally current hardware-software and things such as O.S. and so on will of had their bugs worked out of them.

IMLTHO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2007, 08:50 AM
I built a "new" rig last December. Back then evryone was saying, "Wait til BoB to build" etc,... I'm not made of money, but I built anyway. A nice Core 2 duo rig with raptor HDD's, X-Fi SC and 7950GX2 vid card (I built 2 weeks before the release of the 680i chipset and the 8800 series VC...so what). I also put Xp SP2 on it and have been using it for over 10 months. It's faster, quieter and looks so much better with the eye-candy turned up that I have no issue waiting for another 10 months for BoB, KoTS or whatever else might be in the pipeline.

In fact it spurred me into getting that sweet widescreen 27" monitor I'd been wanting but didn't have the system to make it look decent...and it looks better than decent now.

There is no 'perfect' time to build a new pc. Moore's Law sees to that, but if there were, it would look something like... right now.


TB

Airmail109
10-22-2007, 10:13 AM
Several released and up and coming games utilise quad cores. The performance differences are quite significant.

Go for a quad, such as the q6600 which you can over clock as fast as the 3.0ghz dual-core equivalent.

They cost about the same as well.

Dont upgrade your gfx card yet, a Rule of Thumb is to only buy a new graphics card WHEN they are released. Then you get a years worth of top-performance. Right now the 8800GTX is a year old and set to be replaced in Q1 2008.

If I were buying a new system Id wait until January when Penryn will be released followed shortly by Nvidias 9800GTX. Both will be top performers for the next year and a half if not more.

Software development is slowing down whilst hardware is speeding up, so this time round there should be a massive gap between hardware and software.

F19_Orheim
10-23-2007, 04:16 AM
Thanx guys.. these things do makes you go "hmm"... I guess I am a bit wisernow though-..

Dual before quad

and wait http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hshmulik
10-23-2007, 06:42 AM
In addition, I hear talks about PCI-E 2 video cards, and mobo's with DDR3 memory - so more choices are ahead http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-23-2007, 06:50 AM
PCIE-2 hardware will be backwards compatible with PCIE-1 mobos though those boards will not be able to utilize the added bandwidth. But in reality, the bandwidth capacity available in the old AGP interface was never reached either.

Additionally, DDR3 is already out. Some of the latest P35 chipset mobos are DDR3 capable. But for now, DDR2 is still king. It's fast and cheaper than ever considering all the manufacturers ramped up production in anticipation for all the "Vista upgrades" that never materialized. Now, there is quality DDR2 everywhere that can be procured for chump change.

F19_Orheim
10-23-2007, 08:32 AM
interesting about single, dual or quad core processors:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/08/parallel_processing/index.html


their conclusion:

Conclusion
As we see, there are considerable performance differences between a Core 2 processor running on one, two or four cores. You'll experience the least differences with popular games such as Quake IV, Prey or Call of Duty 2, as these haven't been optimized much for multi-core processors. The newer the game title, the better your chances to benefit from dual or quad core processors. At this time, a dual core at high clock speeds is the best (and most reasonable) choice for gaming.

Professional applications such as the graphics rendering suite 3DStudio Max, Cinebench or Mainconcept's H.264 encoder are the exact opposite - these require as much performance as they can get, and hence were already optimized to make maximum use of dual and quad core processors. All three scale almost linearly, and are close to doubling performance when doubling the core count.

Scaling of the SYSmark 2007 Preview results depends heavily on the benchmark run: the 3D and video creation segments clearly benefit more from a quad core processor than e-learning and productivity.

Audio and video transcoding benchmarks clearly benefit from a second core, but not yet from four cores. Finally, the synthetic benchmarks 3DMark06 and PCMark05 scale linearly, which doesn't come as a surprise.

Overall, the current quad core processor generation does provide the performance reserves that Intel promised. However, there are still many applications that do not yet take much advantage of more than two cores. Our conclusion is thus simple: if you can get a quad core of similar clock speed for only a little premium over the dual core, go for it; if not, stick to a reasonably priced dual core.

Last but not least, the availability of AMD's new Phenom X4 by the end of this year, as well as Intel's Core 2 Duo E8000 and Core 2 Quad Q9000, will hopefully heat up competition in the almost boring CPU market.


My conclusion: wait... as usual LMAO

Doolittle81
10-23-2007, 10:58 AM
My opinion/response to a similar question in another thread:


Buy something like my rig...see below.....

You'll get it cheaper today than I did 3 months ago.The 8800GTX card (You can now get the 8800 Ultra!) has all the power,etc, to handle all game graphics to be produced in the next year and very probably longer, for sure.

For DX10 graphics, you need VISTA and an 88XX series card. The first DX10 games have yet to be produced (Crysis coming very soon). The upgraded/MOD'ed games are still very few (Company of Heroes).

SOW:BofB is being designed for OGL, not DX10, but the most advanced OGL currently under development now (OGL 3.0) will work with, and require, the DX10 level cards(like 8800 series).

In my opinion there is no need to wait any longer to build a new Rig. Your only decision should be whether to buy when you see a Pre-Xmas price drop on components or hope for the post-Xmas drop. Oddly enough, last year for some electronic items (32 Inch LCD TV's, for example) the drop came pre-Xmas.

Note, also, that my rig is upgradeable to 4Gb RAM, Quad-core CPU, and SLI (adding a second cheap 8800GTX card, of course).

I am very comfortable with my situation....and loving the performance and graphics of my Rig with "1946", "Silent Hunter 4", and "Company of Heroes".... See my thread here on Silent Hunter 4 graphics, which are currently only DX9 level:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/65710358/m/5771042006


Mobo: ASUS P5N32-E SLI, 680i
Dual core E6700 Cpu, Mobo upgradeable to Quad
2GB OCZ PC2 8800 (1100Mhz) RAM, Mobo upgradeable to 4Gb
BFG 8800GTX Graphics card
Audigy2 ZS
4 Seagate 400GB hard drives in a 0+1 RAID array
Plextor PX-800A
24" Widescreen LCD Monitor 1920X1200 native
Windows VISTA 32bit

ploughman
10-31-2007, 05:56 AM
Here's some input from SaQSoN who (I think) is involved with Project Galba and who posted in this (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2364639&fpart=1)thread over at SimHQ.

[RE: release of date of SoW BoB given as 25/01/08]
"...25/10/2008 would sound more realistically for me..."

"I don't know, when it will be released, but upgrading at the moment it will be released isn't a smart move anyway. If I were you, I'd upgrade now and then do the next upgrade in about 6-12 months after the game release. Because, it, probably, won't run smoothly on highest settings even on the high-end PC, available at the time of it's release."

"PS. And while we speak about upgrade, here's a little advise: if your primary gaming interest is SoW series, stay away of anything, but NVidia, when selecting a graphics card."

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-31-2007, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
"PS. And while we speak about upgrade, here's a little advise: if your primary gaming interest is SoW series, stay away of anything, but NVidia, when selecting a graphics card."

Regardless of what your pc interest is (gaming or video), the pending release of the new NV architecture in the 8800GT is another decisive blow to ATI and with more revisions on the horizon NV absolutely WILL maintain a stranglehold on both price-for-performance and high-end-performance for the next 6-12 months easily.

Personally, I wouldn't consider ATI as an option for ANY of my graphics dollars right now. They can't even compete in the mid-range market effectively at this point. They're not making cr4p, but when the 8800GT performs better than their best and is $100 cheaper, they can't even claim bang-for-buck value. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

F19_Orheim
10-31-2007, 07:44 AM
good advices from all..
Considering the latest "news" or rumours about when SoW and Kots can/will be released, and new "generation" of gfx cards on their way in Q1, I think I can hang on to the old rig for a few months more...

thanx again.