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Malinchak
05-26-2010, 05:06 AM
I recently finished Assassin's Creed 2 together with the missing sequences and I must say it's a pretty good game in which most of the potentials of this unique gameplay have been used.

But, the further I progressed in the game the more I noticed how soulless the civilians actually are in this game, they walk around like ghosts and there are so many of them too even during the 'night' (referring to the villa of your uncle). If they wouldn't react to your killing you would exactly know what I mean with this. They walk around with no destinations, walk in circles (around a block) if you pay attention to it and give me the impression they are dead inside except when I kill one of them they all of sudden live again and run away or show their emotions.

At the end of the game I started to pay so much attention to them that I almost wondered what went through their heads...

Really a good game, if you ask me a true masterpiece which I hope won't get worse with the future sequels but only gets better and that the civilians get an upgrade.

Murcuseo
05-26-2010, 05:32 AM
Here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/9731093738) was maybe the place to post this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know exactly what you mean but I pay so little attention to civi's during gameplay that it was never an issue for me. I think the rotational routes was there for blending purposes only.I tend to avoid running about on surface streets if I can and use buildings as my main 'routes' for travel.

You are right though they certainly have an unobservant,soulless quality about them....

AmazonAlani
05-26-2010, 09:17 AM
I thought they wher pretty decent. They do pay attention when you're doing stuff like running through the streets or climbing. They say stuff like "He must be late... And she must be beautiful," "Maybe I should do something to stay in shape..." "Isn't there a law against just such things?" and "Life expectancy? About 5 more minutes" Love that last one! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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phil.llllll
05-26-2010, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by NL.Edic:
But, the further I progressed in the game the more I noticed how soulless the civilians actually are in this game, they walk around like ghosts and there are so many of them too even during the 'night' (referring to the villa of your uncle). If they wouldn't react to your killing you would exactly know what I mean with this. They walk around with no destinations, walk in circles (around a block) if you pay attention to it and give me the impression they are dead inside except when I kill one of them they all of sudden live again and run away or show their emotions.

Pretty much. It's typical open world video game AI. Maybe they could've improved it but who knows at what cost. One thing they definitely could have done is give a little more variety to certain npc dialogue. Hopefully it's better in Brotherhood.



Really a good game, if you ask me a true masterpiece which I hope won't get worse with the future sequels but only gets better and that the civilians get an upgrade.

Completely agreed.

Six_Gun
05-26-2010, 11:28 AM
For the most part they react, even in the Villa. They'll respond if you bump into them or harm someone near them. They will also comment on your jumping about to get to rooftops. The one place in the game that rings a bell though when I hear the words soulless civilians is when you first get to Romagna. OMG, the washed out colors, gloomy music, and overall look of the people just walking along without the hustle and bustle you see/hear in the city, just creeps me out. With a little staggering and moaning they could have easily passed as zombies.

That is the first time in playing the game I also realized Ubi wasted much of the gameplay on washed out graphics. The Villa is the only area where you can clearly see improve graphically when you renovate it, but it seems all the maps have a bit of a drab look until you progress further. One part of the game that was annoying for me was the repaired memories. The 9 Lieutenants missions were good, but I really didn't like the washed out look of the synchronization fading in and out.

I didn't even like their turning those you blend with to black and white. The synchronization pattern on the ground would have sufficed. Seems they have a fascination with black and white lately, I mean look what they did to the stealth indicator in Splinter Cell. I suppose AC2 might look a bit more vibrant on an LCD (still using a CRT), but IMO they could have showed off the nice maps a bit better.

El_Sjietah
05-26-2010, 12:13 PM
It's not like RL pedestrians have more life than the ones in AC2.

Murcuseo
05-26-2010, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
It's not like RL pedestrians have more life than the ones in AC2.

Truefax

Marius_Darkwolf
05-27-2010, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by Six_Gun:
I didn't even like their turning those you blend with to black and white. The synchronization pattern on the ground would have sufficed. Seems they have a fascination with black and white lately, I mean look what they did to the stealth indicator in Splinter Cell. I suppose AC2 might look a bit more vibrant on an LCD (still using a CRT), but IMO they could have showed off the nice maps a bit better.

I actually found the greyscale blending very helpful, as I couldn't always see the sync on the ground and that was on a 42" running 1080p, sometimes there was just too much stuff going on to watch the ground. the Greyscale let me know that I had blended safely.

I love one of the NPC comments when your climbing up a building "He must be drunk"

Six_Gun
05-27-2010, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Marius_Darkwolf:
I love one of the NPC comments when your climbing up a building "He must be drunk" I believe it's "Must be a drunken wager". I also like, "Haha, most entertaining".

Gabe19821982
05-27-2010, 07:16 PM
The game's quite realistic, but your right about the civilians... It must be difficult to give them a brain and life, it's a game after all. Their reactions are very good though.

JohnConnor2012
05-27-2010, 08:05 PM
Some games they actually give them a daily schedule - workplaces to go to, then leisure facilities, shops and / or homes dependant on time of day. I'm thinking 'Oblivion', though we're spared the voice-acting.

More distinction between day and night in AC series (crowd density and behaviour, visibility, etc) would add a little more life to city crowds - and the cities themselves. I kind of miss the drunks from AC1, a very good local colour mechanic for nightlife in any era.

ThrownInLie
05-27-2010, 08:08 PM
it would be awesome if you could see children playing in the street (although make them unable to be harmed at all, isn't there a law for that?) and men gambling or talking, women gossiping or sweeping, would be nice.

Engioc
05-27-2010, 08:57 PM
Play any other open world game and you'll notice the same thing. Follow a person in GTA and you'll find them walking, running, driving in circles with no real destination, they just wander aimlessly. It would be nice to see a little more life put in to people in these games, but that would require a lot more CPU power if every AI civ has to think. As Adam First (GTA VC) would say, they are robots, lots and lots of robots.

Heck even in SimCity 4, there is an attempt at giving people proper destinations, but you still see cars driving in circles, not sure I will ever see a truely smart AI in any game.

Most games boast about better AI, but I've never seen a game yet with AI with any real intelligence in what they are doing.

Six_Gun
05-27-2010, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Engioc:
Follow a person in GTA and you'll find them walking, running, driving in circles with no real destination, they just wander aimlessly. I got a kick out of following Little Jacob once in GTA IV after buying weapons from him, just to se what it would be like. That guy drives crazy, it was hilarious. The pot smoke billowing out of his car kinda fit too.

Malinchak
05-28-2010, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by Engioc:
Play any other open world game and you'll notice the same thing. Follow a person in GTA and you'll find them walking, running, driving in circles with no real destination, they just wander aimlessly. It would be nice to see a little more life put in to people in these games, but that would require a lot more CPU power if every AI civ has to think. As Adam First (GTA VC) would say, they are robots, lots and lots of robots.

Heck even in SimCity 4, there is an attempt at giving people proper destinations, but you still see cars driving in circles, not sure I will ever see a truely smart AI in any game.

Most games boast about better AI, but I've never seen a game yet with AI with any real intelligence in what they are doing.
It's like this in most games yes, but if you look at GTA you see that there aren't so many people on the streets during the night, same goes for the amount of cars. You also spend most of the time in your car and even if you decide to walk you will see people: jogging, having whole conversations with each other, police chasing criminals, eating, talking on the phone, giving water to flowers across the roads and so much more.

Of course you can spend most of your time on rooftops in AC, but you recently spend as much time on the ground when you have to tale someone or use blending as your cover. And if they would reduce amount of civilians I'd say it would be more logic to assassinate someone during the day, if the city you are in has a day/night cycle.

I played all of the GTA's, even the GTA 1 and 2 (driving on the left side of the road in London is not really something I could used to) and I never noticed anything like this, because I just don't spend so much time between the crowd as much as I do in Assassin's Creed where you don't have access to trains, metros, cars, boats, airplanes, (jet-packs, hovercrafts in case of San Andreas)

I'd say since you have to blend in a crowd in a game as Assassin's Creed the crowd should really have more abilities. There is absolutely no reason for hiding in a group of random gangsters in GTA nor would it help you.

Stormpen
05-28-2010, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Engioc:
Most games boast about better AI, but I've never seen a game yet with AI with any real intelligence in what they are doing.

The AI in the Thief series is pretty good, but you see the same character model hundreds of times. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

That's one thing I didn't like about the crowds in AC.

Marios725
05-29-2010, 07:26 AM
indeed the crowd is a bit lifeless though u can see them doing stuff ( eating apples, arguing, running away when u are crushing heads e.t.c ).
another thing i believe they should have add is the gondolas in venice! i mean there are no people in them just the driver which dives to the sea once u jump to the gondola.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...r7Gw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7MzAAr7Gw&feature=channel)

AmazonAlani
05-29-2010, 10:30 AM
I would like to see a variety in ages too. There aren't any kids anywhere. Kinda weird actually.


Amazon.

Cpt_Yanni
05-29-2010, 11:40 AM
They don't put Kids in it because there would be a lot of criticism on the fact that you could kill them...

Six_Gun
05-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Marios725:
another thing i believe they should have add is the gondolas in venice! i mean there are no people in them just the driver which dives to the sea once u jump to the gondola.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...r7Gw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7MzAAr7Gw&feature=channel) True, they could have had passengers in at least some of the gondolas, and they weren't even scripted very well. Lots of places I've seen two gondoliers locked head on trying to row toward one another.

What did that video have to do with any of this topic though? The vid itself had potential, but was ruined IMO with hastily jumbled together scenes not showing many of the finishing moves in their entirety, and the aspect ratio was distorted and didn't fit the viewer.

El_Sjietah
05-29-2010, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Six_Gun:

What did that video have to do with any of this topic though?

I'm pretty sure it's his signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

drunk-in-acre
05-31-2010, 01:23 PM
One thing I really liked about the crowds in AC2 and that hasn't been brought up yet is that sometimes the people on the streets would greet each other and after that they had a little conversation. Even the guards did that occasionally. I found that really natural and immersive.

And since somebody mentioned Oblivion... The character's sayings were pretty random at Oblivion to say the least. Like the merchants would say after you bought something from them something like "Thank you for your business" with a very friendly tone. And after you exited the "conversation" screen they'd say "Get out of my sight!". They were pretty impulsive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

MamiyaOtaru
06-02-2010, 11:13 AM
in game, it can be explained by the animus. Ezio doesn't remember every little thing about every pedestrian he passes. What they look like, what their motivations are etc. What Desmond sees in his DNA memories are basically shells of people.

Which is not to say that I wouldn't like them to be a little more alive in the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The animus should be able to conjure up more realistic behaviors http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

greggy.gregory
06-04-2010, 05:02 AM
i was just replaying the game after completing it once and am currently on sequence 7 in Venice.
i agree that most of the civilians are soulless, but i've found some that will start free-running for no reason. (i.e. i haven't killed anyone or done anything that normally makes them react to my presence.) they are running in a loop on some of the "platforms" that are attached to the buildings over the river, then joining back with the rest of the crowd.

wanderer77
06-04-2010, 01:37 PM
the civilians are fine in normal mode. they serve their purpose, to fill the city so it dont look like a ghost town, and to give Ezio places to blend. its when they panic thats the problem. i hate it when they run right through the battlefield. normal pple run AWAY from the danger zone, not right thru it, they might knock me over or the guards and that just destroys the mood. even worse is when they run in circles literally when they panic.

M-dahaka
06-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Name 1 open world game where the civilians do something else beside walk around in circles.
at least in AC2, if you pay attention, sometimes they stop to talk, sometimes there is a man and his wife fighting about something (i find it funny to trow money between them, they suddenly forget their argument and pick up the stuff xD), there are men sweeping the streets. In GTA IV, try following a civilian or a car. They probably don't go around in circles, but they don't have destinations, the AI just decides where to go. In AC, the purpose of them is to fill up the streets for Ezio to blend in.

Malinchak
06-05-2010, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by M-dahaka:
Name 1 open world game where the civilians do something else beside walk around in circles.
at least in AC2, if you pay attention, sometimes they stop to talk, sometimes there is a man and his wife fighting about something (i find it funny to trow money between them, they suddenly forget their argument and pick up the stuff xD), there are men sweeping the streets. In GTA IV, try following a civilian or a car. They probably don't go around in circles, but they don't have destinations, the AI just decides where to go. In AC, the purpose of them is to fill up the streets for Ezio to blend in.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...201056468#6201056468 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2841022468?r=6201056468#6201056468)

Vey03
06-07-2010, 05:16 AM
Come on guys, you can't expect Ubi to give every civil a personality. They are there only to fill the game and provide you with blending opportunities.
I personally don't give a rats where they're going, or how many circles they've run.
I don't hang around long enough to notice stuff like that.

I think Ubi have done an excellent job on them as it is. The comments regarding you climbing the buildings, reacting to you stealing the treasure (which is one thing i don't understand. It's there, if you're not gonna take it, i will, i need a new sword). There's people sweeping the streets, fixing (hammering) the buildings, people pointing to stuff and talking about it, people arguing. There's plenty already there!

I just hate the ones carrying the boxes. It's like Ubi have made them to deliberately get in your way.

JohnConnor2012
06-07-2010, 11:57 AM
I was spammed by eight in a row trying to cross the last bridge in that first trailing mission in Venice!