PDA

View Full Version : BoB and SAR



XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 11:55 AM
Often talked upon subject in many a sim forum, but never done before...the all important SAR mission.

With the offline campaign game this is certainly an attractive mission option with extra consequences, but even in a online war it can be an element (strategic).

Elements of SAR

1. player tries to give pos. before going down (using radio)
2. added difficulty if BoB models loss of radio
3. if 1 fails, wingmen reporting position by radio
4. if 4 fails, wingmen reporting upon return to base

5. following 4 search mission for downed airman, aided by giving AI of lost pilot some aids like flare, dye etc (depending on AF). Give said airman a life for x hours, depending on condition (dingy yes or no, season etc)

6. rescue mission by boat or a/c (the latter is most interesting for BoB)

7. escort of SAR vehicle

8. counter SAR missions (a la downing of He 59s)

Aircrew which are saved retain their quality, hence you'll keep a higher number of qualified aircrew if you can manage to save them, this will influence the strategic campaign. Better fighter pilots, better results. The more seasoned aircrew your squadron has, the better results in combat.

In online play it can influence the total number of available slots on either side.

Chances of survival (hours of life) of bailed crew is much slimmer than that of ditched crews, since they can often make use of dingies and full survival gear. Hence you might have the full crew of a bomber in the same bigger dingie.

Ideally you could even have flyable SAR planes and an extra challenge for those who want to fly SAR missions in a campaign or even online.

Would be nice if the totally new BoB concept would show some respect for life and honor this part of the war, saving men instead of just killing them!!

=================

Another idea (I doubt if its original) is to add another AI layer, not only modeling skill, but perseverance and/or morale. Skill is about the technique and gunnery of a pilot or AI, but what is always missing in sims is the WILL to fight and the WILL to keep on fighting. The AI fights, period...

Lets say AI unit X has suffered defeat after defeat, its surviving pilots must have suffered in terms of morale. Only good leadership and success can regain their combat effectiveness.

In terms of practice it would for instance lead to NOT staying to fight a prolonged combat, or not attacking at all if the numbers are at odds, instead fleeing or loitering out of range.

OTOH, a successful unit will be aggressive and in terms of games have a morale bonus.

==================

Loose the one generic tactics fits all...

It spoils the whole feel of offline simming (on line its is uncontrollable).

Again adding some layers to the AI, which I think IS doable under today's technology, having the RAF fight like the RAF and the Jagdwaffe like the Jagdwaffe.

In practical terms, seeing RAF AIs flying in three a/c formation and squadrons making area attacks. Seeing a real tail end charlie weaving in the rear etc.

Seeing loose Schwarm formations for the Luftwaffe Bf 109s and Bf 110s going in a defensive circle once their are forced to fly close escort.

Change said "tactical" parameters as the war changed, seeing different tactics deployed by both sides.

The same goes for bombers, if BoB will be a sim about huge bombers formations, let them use the correct (formation) tactics, which differ greatly from the fighters.

Also let the defensive gunners (perhaps again with some Skill and Morale modifier) use realistic methods, short bursts and not impossible angles for instance.

==================

If possible add engine exhaust flames (or some similar effect) from the word go, since BoB will generate some night combat interest. Certainly a German bomber campaign will evolve in to night bombing.

To make this item of interest in a campaign, you'll have to give attention to target finding and marking, the entry of navigational systems and pathfinding.

To fly as one of the bombers will be a simple mission, but to fly a campaign as a KG 100 Pathfinder using X-ger├┬Ąt or Y-Ger├┬Ąt instruments and marking the target for the rest of the strike will be a real challenge and will open the "one mission / pilot" influencing the outcome of a strike. It will have an impact in a strategic gaming engine in a real sense, and not only a loose calculated sense (win or loose).

==================

Just some ideas that have been around...

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 11:55 AM
Often talked upon subject in many a sim forum, but never done before...the all important SAR mission.

With the offline campaign game this is certainly an attractive mission option with extra consequences, but even in a online war it can be an element (strategic).

Elements of SAR

1. player tries to give pos. before going down (using radio)
2. added difficulty if BoB models loss of radio
3. if 1 fails, wingmen reporting position by radio
4. if 4 fails, wingmen reporting upon return to base

5. following 4 search mission for downed airman, aided by giving AI of lost pilot some aids like flare, dye etc (depending on AF). Give said airman a life for x hours, depending on condition (dingy yes or no, season etc)

6. rescue mission by boat or a/c (the latter is most interesting for BoB)

7. escort of SAR vehicle

8. counter SAR missions (a la downing of He 59s)

Aircrew which are saved retain their quality, hence you'll keep a higher number of qualified aircrew if you can manage to save them, this will influence the strategic campaign. Better fighter pilots, better results. The more seasoned aircrew your squadron has, the better results in combat.

In online play it can influence the total number of available slots on either side.

Chances of survival (hours of life) of bailed crew is much slimmer than that of ditched crews, since they can often make use of dingies and full survival gear. Hence you might have the full crew of a bomber in the same bigger dingie.

Ideally you could even have flyable SAR planes and an extra challenge for those who want to fly SAR missions in a campaign or even online.

Would be nice if the totally new BoB concept would show some respect for life and honor this part of the war, saving men instead of just killing them!!

=================

Another idea (I doubt if its original) is to add another AI layer, not only modeling skill, but perseverance and/or morale. Skill is about the technique and gunnery of a pilot or AI, but what is always missing in sims is the WILL to fight and the WILL to keep on fighting. The AI fights, period...

Lets say AI unit X has suffered defeat after defeat, its surviving pilots must have suffered in terms of morale. Only good leadership and success can regain their combat effectiveness.

In terms of practice it would for instance lead to NOT staying to fight a prolonged combat, or not attacking at all if the numbers are at odds, instead fleeing or loitering out of range.

OTOH, a successful unit will be aggressive and in terms of games have a morale bonus.

==================

Loose the one generic tactics fits all...

It spoils the whole feel of offline simming (on line its is uncontrollable).

Again adding some layers to the AI, which I think IS doable under today's technology, having the RAF fight like the RAF and the Jagdwaffe like the Jagdwaffe.

In practical terms, seeing RAF AIs flying in three a/c formation and squadrons making area attacks. Seeing a real tail end charlie weaving in the rear etc.

Seeing loose Schwarm formations for the Luftwaffe Bf 109s and Bf 110s going in a defensive circle once their are forced to fly close escort.

Change said "tactical" parameters as the war changed, seeing different tactics deployed by both sides.

The same goes for bombers, if BoB will be a sim about huge bombers formations, let them use the correct (formation) tactics, which differ greatly from the fighters.

Also let the defensive gunners (perhaps again with some Skill and Morale modifier) use realistic methods, short bursts and not impossible angles for instance.

==================

If possible add engine exhaust flames (or some similar effect) from the word go, since BoB will generate some night combat interest. Certainly a German bomber campaign will evolve in to night bombing.

To make this item of interest in a campaign, you'll have to give attention to target finding and marking, the entry of navigational systems and pathfinding.

To fly as one of the bombers will be a simple mission, but to fly a campaign as a KG 100 Pathfinder using X-ger├┬Ąt or Y-Ger├┬Ąt instruments and marking the target for the rest of the strike will be a real challenge and will open the "one mission / pilot" influencing the outcome of a strike. It will have an impact in a strategic gaming engine in a real sense, and not only a loose calculated sense (win or loose).

==================

Just some ideas that have been around...

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 02:05 PM
Seenotstaffel 2 and 3 are in the unit list for BoB /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------
http://home.t-online.de/home/340045970094-0001/lwskins_banner_gross.jpg (http://www.lwskins.de.vu)
Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 03:22 PM
bump

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 05:13 AM
i want a walrus, so that i can go and pluck the once cocky fighter boys out of the drink after they have had their asses waxed, i think that would make for a fun mission!

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 06:49 AM
Kik arse idea..i like it alot
never been done before (AFAICT)

would be a cool mission to bring in a seaplane on rough water and pick up a pilot....hmmmm awesome

"Culpam Poena Premit Comes"

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 02:36 PM
Well not "just" SAR, but as a part of the strategic campaign engine.

The AI pilot's skill and morale really having a long term impact on the gameplay. Hence the SAR fits the more enhanced "character" AI.

Would also give another dimension to "finishing the job" by either strafing ditched a/c (and crew) and shooting at bailing crew (or even those in a dingie).

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-07-2003, 12:37 AM
Big bump