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XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 11:53 AM
I've just found an intersting link to data about MG151/15 ammo and ammo belt composition.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-am.html
How is it modelled in FB?
I feel that this gun just lacks firepower, but i'm no "Heckenschütze"...

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 11:53 AM
I've just found an intersting link to data about MG151/15 ammo and ammo belt composition.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-am.html
How is it modelled in FB?
I feel that this gun just lacks firepower, but i'm no "Heckenschütze"...

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 01:57 PM
This is the Western Front ammo load, on the Eastern front the ammo belt composition was changed in 1942 to 50% AP.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 02:36 PM
Thanks Butch,
but your answer leads me to a second question:
is this change in the mix modelled in FB, or do we start off in June 1941 with the ammo mix adopted in 1942 ?
Any clue anybody?

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 03:10 PM
"HE. High Explosive rounds were traditionally made by boring out the core of a solid projectile, then filling it with explosive. The German Minengeschoß rounds introduced a different manufacturing technique: A thin shell was drawn, in the same way as a cartridge case is drawn. This resulted in a much larger explosive capacity for the same calibre, and became widespread after the war. It is commonly assumed that HE ammunition is really effective only in calibres of 20mm or larger, but it was also made for 12.7mm and even rifle-calibre weapons."


that says it all, copy paste from that link, He rounds germans used appeared to be better than what others used, so more powerfull, modelled in game, NO!

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 03:12 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www.flugzeugwerk.net/ir%3efb/assinatura.jpg

!

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 07:15 PM
butch2k wrote:
- This is the Western Front ammo load, on the Eastern
- front the ammo belt composition was changed in 1942
- to 50% AP.
-
- Butch
-

A more important question is: Are we stuck with Eastern Front ammo loads even though the Western Front is playing a greater role in FB?

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 07:26 AM
AFAIK there is only one kind of ammo load per aircraft.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 12:37 PM
Does anyone know if FB is still using the gun loadouts/data that Oleg showed us a while ago for Il2?

The reason I ask is because the MG-17 belt composition shown on the site mentioned above consists of:
5 SmK-v (AP -high velocity)
4 PmK-v (API -high velocity)
1 B-Patrone-v (Observing [HE/I] -high velocity)
Presumably some tracer, AP-T or API-T may have been mixed in too.
IIRC the only ammo modelled for the MG-17 in Il2 was the AP and AP-T at a ratio of 2 AP to 1 AP-T...

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 810.0
power = 0

The velocity given seems a little slow for the -v patronen especially when compared to the startling 920m/s given for the MG-81... (The MG-81 had a shorter barrel than the MG-17 and was unable to feed the uploaded v-patronen...)

If this data is still being used in FB, could the MG-17 be looked at performance-wise and ammo-wise again please? The MG-81 and MG-17 velocities may have been swapped... The other ammo types would make things a little more interesting too.

Oh yes, back on thread here is the Il2 MG-151 data:

MG 151
HE/T - AP - HE - AP

HE & HE/T
mass = 0.057
speed = 960.0
power = 0.0019

AP
mass = 0.072
speed = 859.0
power = 0

Is this still current data for FB?

Cheers


<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/ForgottenFighter/crikey!.jpg?0.9947684259733767

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 02:09 PM
I too would greatly appreciate it if Oleg could drop us the FB1.21 version of the gun/ammo power list.


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XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 01:19 AM
my ammo project... its still in progress



http://www.axishq.wwiionline.com/~ring/info/ammo/air.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 08:44 AM
Ring that looks awesome, u even calculated the He damage. but didnt germans have bit more better He stuff inside their ammo than pentrite? ha41 it was called, or something like that, it was bout 2.5 times better than TNT.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 08:55 AM
that kinetic energy doesnt go right with FB, now every AP rounds releases all of its Energy to target no matter where the plane is hitted. if thru wing, it should only make an hole on it, nothing more, so little damage most of the cases. FB DM should only take that amount of energy from AP round what it takes to penetrate different parts of the plane, like aluminium skin, few metal strips and again aluminium skin, like in wing. so theres not such parts which really can suck all AP energy when it hits the plane.
of course, on engine hits AP rounds should be good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and for dead 6 shooting thru armor plates at the pilots back. not much other cases.


Ring, in ur table hispano 20mm He round has great total Energy level compared to MG151/20 He round, which i find odd because when he round hits the target, theres not much to do with kinetic energy anymore because round goes in little pieces because of explosion.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 07:35 PM
Enofinu most used PETN its 2.23x TNT the HA41 was used is some as well but not till after 42 i belive.. i need to recheck.. im getting the specs on the HE type in a few days and will update the chart then..