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Lewicide
05-04-2005, 08:34 AM
Chances at various alts. 1 on 1, weaknesses and strengths, what to exploit, tell me?

geetarman
05-04-2005, 08:44 AM
My take would be that at higher speeds and medium to high alt, the P-51 would dominate and could literally dictate the fight.

In a close-in dog fight, the Ki would dominate. I really think it's as simple as that.

The advanatge, IMHO, would lay with the P-51 as he could disengage easily, whereas the Tony could not.

3.JG51_BigBear
05-04-2005, 08:46 AM
If you keep the speed up the P-51 can dominate the Ki-61. Don't dive away from it like you would a zero or ki-43, the Ki-61 will follow as well as a 109 and probably better because it doesn't seem to lose elevator authority as quickly as the 109. If you need to run away try to keep as level as you can. Stay above the Ki-61 and make high speed firing passes. Don't turn with the 61.

If you're in the ki-61 I would recommend picking an altitude above the general combat and circling there. Wait for the mustang to come to you. In a turning combat you can easily best the Mustang. You'll have to rely on parting shots or head to head snap shots like you would in other Japanese planes because of the huge difference in power between the two fighters. The ki61 has a ceiling of about 10000m and is far more effective at higher altitudes than the zero or 43 but I still think of it more as a medium-low altitude fighter. 3000m is a really nice place to be in this plane.

These are just some generalitites I've found. Of course the situation dictates tactics.

VW-IceFire
05-04-2005, 09:01 AM
Its an interesting matchup.

The Mustang is faster, generally better armed, and has a better zoom climb. The Ki-61 turns better and rolls faster but has a much slower top speed. Basically the Mustang has to use its speed to advantage to initiate hit and runs. However, diving away if attacked by a Ki-61 may not work as well as the 61 is quite good in a dive.

geetarman
05-04-2005, 09:26 AM
Although I haven't tested it, my bet would be that the 51 could outdive the Tony in pretty short order. In any event, it could still squirrel away in a high speed, rolling dive due to it's much better manueverability at high speed.

carguy_
05-04-2005, 09:35 AM
Ki61 has terrible(read:no) rear view so B&Z attacks are easy.Basicly you should not go below 400kph in P51,then you dictate the fight.Also P51 can escape in a dive or pull a high speed high G turn while Ki61 cannot.Generally you`d like to be down low with Ki61 but if you manage to start the fight higher than P51, it can be a carnage.

However if a P51 has speed advantage over Ki61 at certain alt(be it higher than 3000m) the Ki must run lower to avoid B&Z.This can be used in P51 favor cuz a steeply descending Ki has almost frozen elevators and could not evade B&Z attack.

Obviously the Ki61 is the underdog here.It requires an experienced pilot in order to be successful.A fast P51 is untouchable.

LEBillfish
05-04-2005, 09:45 AM
Uhhh don't be so sure on a number of those points.....

Ki-61 climbs fast, as far as meters vertical/second, however it does it at a slower speed.

Ki-61 has an awesome zoom climb, you really need to try it to see.

At high Alt when all planes are slowed, Ki-61 seems to just have a hair of an advantage as it can still be controlled at the slower speeds.

Diving?....We'll let me give this example...Other day I decided to dive away from 3 mustangs in a FW190A8....Slowing just enough to keep it from breaking up I had hoped the P51's would break off to not lose the alt. No luck...They stayed on me.......Pulling back at the last to just stir up some dust I looked over my shoulder, and watched 3 p51 break up then slam into the ground....

Now, the rediculous blackout that the P51 suffers from is worse in the Ki-61, however that is not what happened, the planes broke up.

I'll out dive a FW190 in a Ki-61....Draw from that point what you will http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Flat or slightly climbing away in a straight line, then zoom in as once slow the Ki-61 has trouble regaining E....Make him struggle to alt with you...There is your advantage...Trick him into getting slow always climbing gradually...Then start your YoYo's.

Whoops, did I say that out loud?..*checks six in her Ki-61* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tigertalon
05-04-2005, 03:18 PM
Mustang is one of the best planes in game, hands down. Let me talk from Ki61 point of view, as opposed would be to easy.

Start with getting as much knowledge about your and opponent's airplane as you can. Let's take a look at charts I took from IL2compare:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/aegeeaddict/Ki-61vP-51.jpg

You see that you only have advantage in low speed maneouvrability. HUGE P-51 speed advantage is evident at all altitudes. He outclimbs you at all altitudes and at all speeds. However, there are some things that cannot be drawn in graphs.
Ki61 has fairly good zoom climb, at least on a par or maybe better than P-51 (of course if you both start same speed same level). You dive extremely good. He has better high speed maneouvrability. You have better low speed maneouvrability. He has better armament and more ammo. If you fly full real, he has better visibility.

So, when preparing for the fight, don't take more than 25% of fuel if not really necessary. Prior to fight try to climb above him at all costs - this is of a life importance. Then B&Z him to death with great care. DON'T bleed energy, and make him bleed as much as you can (he has to maneouvre to avoid you, thus bleeding). Once he starts gaining E advantage over you, you are toast.

You picked two planes that are not in the same class by far, words above are not magic formula, but my help you to increase probability of getting him a bit.

Lewicide
05-05-2005, 01:37 AM
Cheers for all of that, interesting for late-war scenarios. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

alert_1
05-05-2005, 01:54 AM
It's basically combat between a '41 plane vs. '44 one.NOt too chances agains P51. But if Stang driver is overconfident....
As for diving in Ki61, once I try to get offa Hellcat and after reaching 650 IAS my Hien was losing some parts while in me109 is no problem to go to 750 IAS easily.

Doug_Thompson
05-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Where do you get il2compare?

tigertalon
05-09-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
Where do you get il2compare?

here (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/files/essentials/il2c_v25_pf302.rar)

Doug_Thompson
05-09-2005, 02:54 PM
Much thanks.