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View Full Version : Mudmovers! info on '46 IL-2, IL-10 tips, info?



Saburo_0
07-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Looking to fly some IL-2s and 10s, any tip/ technique help appreciated!

S!

TinyTim
07-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Firstly, get familiar with the numerous loadouts. You can easily take out a column of 15 heaviest tanks with PTABs, or Casettes or even VAP canisters. BRS-132 are an antitank rockets, capable of destroying any tank in the sim, even the Maus, when a direct hit is achieved (which isn't hard at all). IL-2 is an incredibly effective can opener, especially in the Type 3M version, armed with two fast firing NS-37 37mm antitank cannons with 50 shells each. The heaviest german tanks will require steeper dive, but once you master it, you can destroy 10 and more tigers per sortie with cannons only.

You also stand a good chance of defeating attacking fighters in case of 109s with no 108 or gondolas. Fw190 are another matter, no big hope versus those. One thing you have to care about is very low gunner ammo load - mere 200 bullets. I always disable rear gunner, and man the gun myself when attacked. If you leave gunner on, he'll waste all ammo into empty air at the first sight of enemy fighter, leaving you defenseless. UBS 12,7 gun is very effective tho. Online initially when attacked I usually don't fire the gun and only try to evade enemy fighter, this makes him think my rear gun is disabled, so many times they come to my tail much more confidently and present a lovely target.

Weak spots are the tail (control loss), and wooden wingtips which tend to fall off rather quickly when taking damage.

VW-IceFire
07-06-2009, 08:14 PM
A lot of flying the IL-2 is just learning how to do it.

Here's a few tips:

- As TinyTime points out learn the loadouts and what armament options you have. As an IL-2 or IL-10 pilot (or any mud mover) your job is to deliver ordinance so you need to know what you are delivering.
- Learn the fine art of strafing. Its the fine line between closing for a devastating cannon or rocket attack and running into the ground next to the target you were shooting.
- Learn how to dodge the AAA gunners by attacking your target from various angles. Learn how to change your speed, direction, and height just prior to an attack.
- Always attack heavily armoured units like tanks from behind where the armour is weakest.
- Man the rear gunner yourself. Wait till the enemy is very close and dodge their shots until then.
- Get used to flying with battle damage. Be able to asses the state of your plane and if you can make it back to base or if its a write off.

Thats about it. Good luck!

JtD
07-06-2009, 10:26 PM
The 23mm gun on the Il-2 (VYa) is more powerful than the one on the Il-10 (NS). The 37mm gun on the Il-2 can take out tanks up to the Panther if you attack them from above. The VYa cannon can manage medium tanks like the PzIV from above, the NS cannon has a hard time even with lighter armor.

The Il-10 is very fast and in fact so fast that it loses elevator response when you attack targets in a shallow dive. So pull out in time.

The early Il-2's (the ones without a gunner) have a rather decent flight performance that gives you a chance to survive enemy fighters (which early on don't carry a lot of guns). Later versions are heavier and are pointless to operate without fighter cover.

The Il-10 is a pretty decent fighter, too, and again stands a chance of survival.

The Il-10 carries less ordinance than the Il-2.

To dodge AAA, just fly directly at it but aim below. Pull up in the last moment to fire rockets or drop your bombs or, if you are good with guns, use your guns.

Don't get greedy. Taking out a single car can be considered a success already.

WTE_Galway
07-06-2009, 10:54 PM
You gotta love those pretty green AJ2's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


here is a pretty good ordinance summary stolen from Algorex in an old thread that was over at battlefields.com



German ordinance:
----------------

AB - cluster bombs
AB250 has 108 sd-2 "butter-fly bombs" effective against anything but tanks and ships
AB500 has 74 SD-4HL anti-tank bombs with minimal radius so a direct hit it needed
AB1000 lauches several hundred 1B or 2B Incendiary bombs

SC - general purpose bombs
SD - semi-armour piercing and fragmentation bomb
(In the game these are pretty much identical in every way)

PC-1600 - armor piercing bomb
Should be effective against armoured ships and bunkers, but in the game it's not, go with big SC bombs

Wf.Gr.21- anti-aircraft rocket
R4M "Orkan" - anti-aircraft rocket



Russian ordinance
-----------------

FAB - general purpose bombs

VAP-250 - napalm canister
Drops a long line of napalm

AJ-2 - incendiary cluster bombs
As above but with incendiary bombs (takes out Panzer IIIs)

AO-10 - fragmentation cluster bombs
Again drops in a long line, can take out Panzer III with direct hits

PTAB-2.5 - anti armor cluster bombs
The mother of all convoy killing weapons, drops a long line of anti-tank bomblets, kills pretty much anything bar king tigers.

RS-82, RS-132 - general purpose rockets

ROFS-132 - high explosive fragmentation rocket
These kill light tanks as well, bigger destructive radius than on the BRS.

BRS-82, BRS-132 - anti armor rockets
Kills every tank in the game.

M-13 - incendiary rockets



Western allies
--------------

- parafrag bombs - general purpose ******ed bombs
These work wvery well against linear targets like airfields and convoys
- 100 lb bomb - general purpose
- 250 lb bomb - general purpose
- 500 lb bomb - general purpose
- 1000 lb bomb - general purpose
- 2000 lb bomb - general purpose

60lb RP-3 rockets - general purpose rocket
2,75' HVAR - general purpose rocket
5' HVAR - general purpose rocket
5 ' AP HVAR - armour-piercing rocket
Again the AP rocket has smaller destructive radius, and against japanese tanks the GP rockets are enough.

"Tiny Tim" - general purpose rocket
These are do as much damage as 500lb bombs, as incidently the warhead is a normal 500lb SAP bomb.

JtD
07-07-2009, 12:03 AM
The VAP 250 are difficult to use, you fly too high and nothing happens, you fly too low and kill yourself. It's a nice thing to drop if you have a bandit on your 6, though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ROXunreal
07-07-2009, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
- Always attack heavily armoured units like tanks from behind where the armour is weakest.


This is modeled in the game? Wow, didn't think land stuff was detailed at all.

JtD
07-07-2009, 08:31 AM
Yes, it is modeled. I'd suggest to attack from above, not behind, though. Top armor is usually even weaker than rear armor.

Some ground objects are very nicely modeled, like the Japanese fish trawler where you can destroy individual AAA guns and the sails with small arms fire that doesn't sink the ship. Always a nice thing to do.

DKoor
07-07-2009, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
Yes, it is modeled. I'd suggest to attack from above, not behind, though. Top armor is usually even weaker than rear armor.

Some ground objects are very nicely modeled, like the Japanese fish trawler where you can destroy individual AAA guns and the sails with small arms fire that doesn't sink the ship. Always a nice thing to do. +1

I can confirm this... I've attacked some Japanese armor directly from above in Wildcat.
Destroyed 5-6 tanks in one sortie (realistic) this way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
My technique was dive angle above 70 so the tanks is exposing top armor that way... all it took is usually one really short burst.
In dive I was cutting throttle to some 30% , after I make my pass I deploy combat flaps + loads of elevator trim up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

When I came in for a shallow dive angle pass from SL to say 30-40 angle, I couldn't destroy them at all no matter how long and accurate burst was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

jamesblonde1979
07-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Fly the P39, pwns tanks and doesn't afraid of anything.

Saburo_0
07-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. Any other tips for avoiding flak? Offline are my squadmates good at anything in particular?

TinyTim
07-07-2009, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Any other tips for avoiding flak?

Work in pairs. Whenever I fly IL-2 online, I try to get a wingman. One of us then enters the AAA zone first and "drags" the fire away (and does NOT attack). The other one follows some 5 seconds and takes the AAA out while it is busy firing at the first guy. A figurative Drag n Bag.

TinyTim
07-07-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
Yes, it is modeled. I'd suggest to attack from above, not behind, though. Top armor is usually even weaker than rear armor.

Some ground objects are very nicely modeled, like the Japanese fish trawler where you can destroy individual AAA guns and the sails with small arms fire that doesn't sink the ship. Always a nice thing to do. +1

I can confirm this... I've attacked some Japanese armor directly from above in Wildcat.
Destroyed 5-6 tanks in one sortie (realistic) this way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
My technique was dive angle above 70 so the tanks is exposing top armor that way... all it took is usually one really short burst.
In dive I was cutting throttle to some 30% , after I make my pass I deploy combat flaps + loads of elevator trim up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

When I came in for a shallow dive angle pass from SL to say 30-40 angle, I couldn't destroy them at all no matter how long and accurate burst was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you are speaking about the armoured trucks. These indeed require a steep approach, while you can take out tanks with ease also duirng a level approach (from the sides or rear at least).

With the IL-2 Type-3M you can take out all tanks up to Panther in a low level flight, aiming for the side of the tank. First tank that requires a steep dive and aiming for the roof is a Tiger.

VW-IceFire
07-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by ROXunreal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
- Always attack heavily armoured units like tanks from behind where the armour is weakest.


This is modeled in the game? Wow, didn't think land stuff was detailed at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes it is and has been since IL-2 1.0 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For years I've been conducting anti-armor attacks against tanks using 23mm and larger cannons and it works well. Some of the lighter tanks will succumb to 20mm attacks as well. But you have to be at a higher angle and definitely from behind. Attacking from the front is typically useless.

Woke_Up_Dead
07-07-2009, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
The 23mm gun on the Il-2 (VYa) is more powerful than the one on the Il-10 (NS). The 37mm gun on the Il-2 can take out tanks up to the Panther if you attack them from above. The VYa cannon can manage medium tanks like the PzIV from above, the NS cannon has a hard time even with lighter armor.

I'm pretty sure the IL-10 has a couple of 23mm VYas as well, plus a 20mm UB and a couple of MGs.

VW-IceFire
07-07-2009, 05:52 PM
Yep IL-10 is 2x23mm VYa cannons, 2xShKAS light machine guns, and 1xUB machine gun in the rear turret. The NS-23's were used in quad arrangement on later models of the IL-10.

Saburo_0
07-07-2009, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Any other tips for avoiding flak?

Work in pairs. Whenever I fly IL-2 online, I try to get a wingman. One of us then enters the AAA zone first and "drags" the fire away (and does NOT attack). The other one follows some 5 seconds and takes the AAA out while it is busy firing at the first guy. A figurative Drag n Bag. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very Clever! Muhaahaa!

JtD
07-07-2009, 10:38 PM
According to the object viewer in game the Il-10 comes with 2xNS23 cannons. This is confirmed by their lack of punch in the AT role which I frequently get annoyed with.

And yes, you can take out tanks from a shallow dive, but steep works better from my experience. It also means you're save from the tanks main gun.

Phil_K
07-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Best way to avoid flak is to keep fast and only weave in small angles - about 5 deg. If you manoeuvre wildly you quickly lose speed and become an easy target - this feels counter-intuitive at first, but it does work.

If you get hit in the engine and it smokes then open rads and hit full throttle and head straight back to friendly lines - I find attempting to nurse the engine has no effect whatsoever. Just use whatever engine life you have left to get home. If the engine catches fire then bail out immediately.

The worst aspect of the Sturmovik imho is the vulnerability of the control systems - particularly the elevator controls, which always seem to go pop. Learn landing with no elevator. Wheels up is best, but wheels down can be done if you are feeling flash. If attempting a wheels down landing with control damage, keep your flaps up - this minimises the undulating effect when trying to lower altitude by varying engine power.

If hydraulics are lost, and the wheels won't lower, you can lower them manually.

When offline, and enemy fighters show up, take a position above and behind the rest of your flight. The enemy fighters will almost always pick on the main flight body. Wait until the fighters open fire, then call an "anybody help me". Your flight will split up, and as they do, fall behind the attackers - should be at least one guaranteed kill. You can then try and pick off another in the ensuing melee.

When attacking airfields or areas with high flak concentrations, M-13 rockets are most effective - they give you the best chance of killing an AAA gun from distance due to the spread of the explosion. They're not much good against vehicles though. Get used to taking out AAA first when attacking convoys, trains etc.

The two things that are most likely to kill you are impatience and stupidity. Be wary of getting frustrated when you keep missing a target - it is tempting to turn in ever tighter circles (losing energy and speed) in order to have another pass, increasing your risk of stalling. Also the "last car of the convoy" syndrome, where you take ever greater risks to get that one last pesky vehicle. Another big mistake when attacking a target is to climb after you have released bombs so that you can look over your shoulder at the damage - you are making yourself a big slow target. Keep low after releasing ordnace and check the damage on your next pass.

Tully__
07-11-2009, 05:59 PM
For the variants with big cannon (especially the -3M) learn to snipe. If you can get your accuracy up, you can kill many ground targets with a single shot from these big boys. I recall in the early days of IL2 I came home from a ground attack mission in coop mode with 1600 points, about 80% of these came from single shot hits on lone targets with those cannon.

DKoor
07-11-2009, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
Yes, it is modeled. I'd suggest to attack from above, not behind, though. Top armor is usually even weaker than rear armor.

Some ground objects are very nicely modeled, like the Japanese fish trawler where you can destroy individual AAA guns and the sails with small arms fire that doesn't sink the ship. Always a nice thing to do. +1

I can confirm this... I've attacked some Japanese armor directly from above in Wildcat.
Destroyed 5-6 tanks in one sortie (realistic) this way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
My technique was dive angle above 70 so the tanks is exposing top armor that way... all it took is usually one really short burst.
In dive I was cutting throttle to some 30% , after I make my pass I deploy combat flaps + loads of elevator trim up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

When I came in for a shallow dive angle pass from SL to say 30-40 angle, I couldn't destroy them at all no matter how long and accurate burst was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you are speaking about the armoured trucks. These indeed require a steep approach, while you can take out tanks with ease also duirng a level approach (from the sides or rear at least).

With the IL-2 Type-3M you can take out all tanks up to Panther in a low level flight, aiming for the side of the tank. First tank that requires a steep dive and aiming for the roof is a Tiger. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for heads up... will try some of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

I've been able to destroy all Japanese tank types with F4F... don't know if that is realistic or not, they are tanks after all...

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d6d3bdcc.html

HoRo is the toughest, he lasted 5 strafing runs (I'm sure even less with better aim)... others will explode in one good strafing run.

This strafing this is actually fun, but is very dangerous, one has to resist temptation to put a few rounds more (and usually ends up as lawn dart http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

JtD
07-11-2009, 11:45 PM
The Japanese tanks field incredible 10mm of armor on occasion. The M2 can penetrate 25mm, so your gunfire should have an effect. But try the Japanese armored semi-truck for a challenge. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kettenhunde
07-12-2009, 03:24 AM
Japanese tanks field incredible 10mm of armor on occasion.

The Japanese designed their tanks for the operational environment of the Pacific and Southeast Asia.

That is why they could maneuver them in terrain heavier western designs would not have been as effective.


e. The Japanese have used the following tactics:

(1) Orders are issued orally for attacks on specific objectives;

(2) Small tanks accompany infantry attacks;

(3) No type of terrain is considered an obstacle;




"The Japanese equipment includes one innovation, a two-man carrier, probably especially designed for use in the tropics. This little carrier can negotiate smaller streams, rice fields, rubber groves, and thin jungles, but is not heavily enough armored to resist British antitank rifles. It is proving a useful weapon in combination with the heavier tanks and armored cars that the Japanese possess.


http://www.lonesentry.com/manu...yan-front/index.html (http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/malayan-front/index.html)

All the best,

Crumpp

Pigeon_
07-14-2009, 01:21 AM
You can find some great video tutorials on the business of ground attack on Dart's page (http://www.darts-page.com/).

backseatgunner
07-20-2009, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Saburo_0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Any other tips for avoiding flak?

Work in pairs. Whenever I fly IL-2 online, I try to get a wingman. One of us then enters the AAA zone first and "drags" the fire away (and does NOT attack). The other one follows some 5 seconds and takes the AAA out while it is busy firing at the first guy. A figurative Drag n Bag. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very Clever! Muhaahaa! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you're playing offline, just before you go into the target, fly off and attack your target at about 60 degrees from the remainder of the Il-2s.

If you're the commander, order your first flight to attack the flak while you deal with the main target, and order any other flights onto the objective too.

BRASSTURTLE
07-23-2009, 10:46 AM
My philosophy for mud moving can be summed up as follows: DEATH FROM BELOW!!!

I tend to attack armor co-alt. The best weapon on the Il2 (or any mud mover) is the fuselage. As an example, in the original Il2 campaign, I destroyed 37 aircraft in 16 missions completed. Of course i was piloting all 37.

All the advice given above is excellent. The drag & bag on the AAA will save your hide. The gunners are not quite the ninja snipers that tail gunners are, but are still vicious with their aim.

If you are hunting Tigers, use the Jug. 8 X .50cal should do the job. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif