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fordfan25
10-19-2005, 09:21 PM
iv done a bit of a half ***ed test on the p-47 boosted at 30,000 ft and for a plane that is neer M performnce it does not seem to even hit the numbers of the p-51. down low seems to be the same. maby its the way im flying the planes. i start out in QMB at the max alt. i dive down to 30K and trim out full 110% power. prop to 100% 25%fuel. i lost the numbers i got her to but the 47 as well as the stang hit close to or around 650kmH after a LONG time flyn. i have rad closed and no overheat selected in the options for the sake of ease. i did a one time test of the 44'dora and it ecelarated much faster and i got it to about 10 KM-H faster than the 47. i dont know if that right or not just thought id mentune it. ill "test again and post actual numbers. and im useing wonderwomen veiw so i can read the true air speed and not indacated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Badsight.
10-19-2005, 09:24 PM
please do testing on the Crimea map to see best performance , preferably out over the sea with wind off

fordfan25
10-19-2005, 09:35 PM
ok i just redid it in map badsite suggested.

p47boosted at 30,000ft rad closed 25% i was able to maintain a speed of between 660 and 670.

mustang i was able it hit over 700kmh sam alt with rad closed ect. i just stoped after 700KMH.


shouldnt the reguler p47-d27 be faster than the stang that high up?

p1ngu666
10-19-2005, 09:49 PM
think the new p47 has a different performance curve, it maybe slower than the D27

M had a different turbo/engine, which could take higher rpms, higher critical alt

fordfan25
10-19-2005, 10:09 PM
object veiwer says d27 could reach 689 at 9100M

now we have a BOOSTED version that does not even reach that as far as my testing goes.

i think ill test sea level next. if i remember i was able to get it to 570 or so kmh SL. about same as f4u. ill test again to b sure.

Gibbage1
10-19-2005, 10:20 PM
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

LEXX_Luthor
10-19-2005, 10:34 PM
P-47 was a Soviet plane, although possibly not the "boost" version. It must be the Luftys/Luftyettes.

fordfan25
10-19-2005, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

yea i agree Gib. the 47 boosted has thus far not impressed me with its "near p-47M performnce".

lbhskier37
10-19-2005, 10:46 PM
I did some quick tests the day the patch came out and the boosted D was getting me about 20kph (TAS) at 1000m over the non boosted D27. I never tested it at any other altitude, but it definitly felt faster at other altitudes.

lbhskier37
10-19-2005, 11:06 PM
Well, I just did a test at 10000m and I might have to take back my statement. Both the boosted and the 27 seem to be pretty much even at that altitude. I suck at testing though, so someone should look into this. I still am pretty sure I got a good boost on the deck with the new one.

fordfan25
10-19-2005, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by lbhskier37:
Well, I just did a test at 10000m and I might have to take back my statement. Both the boosted and the 27 seem to be pretty much even at that altitude. I suck at testing though, so someone should look into this. I still am pretty sure I got a good boost on the deck with the new one.

i tested yesterday and i remember on the deck the boosted 47 was only 10kmh faster than the nromal 47 but im going to test again just to be sure. so far i think something is SNAFU my self. even at alt a boosted 47 should be faster than nonboosted as well as a mustang i would think.

fordfan25
10-19-2005, 11:41 PM
ok sea lv. cimara map same test condtions as high alt test.

p-47 boosted i was able to maintain a pretty solid 579 kmH

p47D-27 sea lv i was able to maintain a solid 574kmh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

f4u-1d sea lv 577KMh is any one else seeing a pattern hear?

p-51d- sea lv 604 "retains E better"

p38-late sea lv 593

p-38L SL 554.

FritzGryphon
10-20-2005, 12:56 AM
I get 575/581 on the deck. 730 for both at 7000m.

That's for full fuel, rad closed.

WOLFMondo
10-20-2005, 01:02 AM
What did you expect from a P47D using 150 grade instead of 130 grade? No where did Oleg say it was the 'M', just had similar performance.

JG53Frankyboy
10-20-2005, 04:38 AM
in the last IL2compare (yes, based on old FMs) , the D-27 reached its top speed at 7500m.

so, perhaps this is the altitude to compare the two late 47Ds ?

JG53Frankyboy
10-20-2005, 05:05 AM
with such few performance differences i think i will let the P-47D-27 faking the P-47Ns over Kyushu 1945 in my coop missions. because they have a much nicer pacific map skin.

ICDP
10-20-2005, 05:13 AM
The P47M could reach 470mph at 32,000ft. The new P47 doesnt get close to that. I have never been able to get any kind of speed close to this using any of the leaked betas or the official 4.02. I laughed when I read all the posts proclaiming the new P47 as a big improvement. It is only 10kph faster at SL and no faster AT ALL at higher alt.

What I find inexcusible is the fact that 50% of the new planes is FUBAR and not one beta tester or dev noticed. I would figure for a "close to P47M" performance 450-465 should be expected from the new P47. I am afraid the devs or beta testers either messed up or simply didnt want it fixed. There is no other possible explanation.

Why put the boosted P47 in there, all it is is a standard P47 with a different skin.

ICDP
10-20-2005, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
What did you expect from a P47D using 150 grade instead of 130 grade? No where did Oleg say it was the 'M', just had similar performance.

Similar performance would mean similar to 470mph at 32,000ft. It doesn't even get close so it can NOT be described as similar.

Fehler
10-20-2005, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

Jeez, do you still suck your thimb too? LOL!

Diablo310th
10-20-2005, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

Gibbage..I have often wondered the same thing. I even ask CrazyIvan a few weeks back if a dedicated jug pilot was beta testing and he infered "for sure". I'm finding the same kinda performance true now too the more I fly her. So where is our boost?

2ICDP....at first I felt like it was performing better. after having a littel more flight time I think what I was seeing was maybe better e-retention. The boosted Jug seemed to hold speed at alt. better than 4.01. We need to see some detailed tests on speed, roll, dive and climb using DeviceLink and compare it to RL data and 4.01 data. Hmm has Tagert come off ban yet? LOL Now that the new patch is out I'm willing to do some testing now. I didn't see the point of it before with 4.02 so near.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-20-2005, 07:08 AM
is there a boosted version?
and i thought they gave us a new skin for teh jug http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Vipez-
10-20-2005, 07:11 AM
I haven't tested the top speeds yet for the new Jug, but atleast Climb rate for the new Jug felt really good, last night while flying i had steady climb of +4100 fpm, something the Old Jug never could do.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

KIMURA
10-20-2005, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

P-47D-27+ should run 569,94kmh@SL with 64"Hg@SL, while the P-47M-1 should reach 595,70kph@SL. datas taken out of AHT and US-fighter conference data sheets.

And Gibbage calm down, the P-47 late too slow speed was already part of discussion over there in ther German forum. Most of Germans are NOT satiysfied with the poor power of the new Jug, that's for sure. So no worth reason to think about world conspiracy theory against Amercian stuff.

Diablo310th
10-20-2005, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by KIMURA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

P-47D-27+ should run 569,94kmh@SL with 64"Hg@SL, while the P-47M-1 should reach 595,70kph@SL. datas taken out of AHT and US-fighter conference data sheets.

And Gibbage calm down, the P-47 late too slow speed was already part of discussion over there in ther German forum. Most of Germans are NOT satiysfied with the poor power of the new Jug, that's for sure. So no worth reason to think about world conspiracy theory against Amercian stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kimura...I think what gibbage meant was that Luft pilots from all nations not the German nation in particular. Meaning as I ahve said before not some truly dedicated Jug pilots.

fordfan25
10-20-2005, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
What did you expect from a P47D using 150 grade instead of 130 grade? No where did Oleg say it was the 'M', just had similar performance.

what were getting is not near M performnce. and nobody has said that he stated that it was the M

fordfan25
10-20-2005, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I get 575/581 on the deck. 730 for both at 7000m.

That's for full fuel, rad closed.

i cant get that at alt even with 25% fuel

lrrp22
10-20-2005, 10:38 AM
I think many of us misunderstand what Oleg meant by 'close to P-47M' performance. The P-47M reached 470 mph at 32,000 ft where its C-type engine was still producing 2800 HP at 72" Hg. The P-47D-27, regardless of fuel used, will only develop somewhere around 50" Hg at that altitude.

In other words, the P-47M-like performance will only come at altitudes where the -27's R-2800-59 B-type engine can maintain 70" Hg/~2700 HP. The D-27's max boost at 26,000 ft was 64" Hg, so above 26,000 feet the standard P-47D-27 and '150 octane' P-47D should have identical performance. Below that altitude, the 'boosted' version should be faster than the standard with the biggest difference occuring somewhere around 22,000 ft.


.

StellarRat
10-20-2005, 01:39 PM
It seems faster down low and much better climb rate from the ground to me.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-20-2005, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Test, test, and test some more. I myself cant "feel" the differance between the P-47 D-27 or the P-47 "late". I CAN feel the differance between the P-51 B and the III, and the P-38 and P-38 Late. I would be amazed and dumbfounded if the beta testers never tested the new Jug to see if it was in fact boosted over the normal Jugs. That would be conclusive proof that the beta team is composed of nothing but Luftwaffe and Russian pilots. A good explination why the US pilots constantly get hosed on every patch =)

Feels the same to me as well. I bet Oleg is getting a nice laugh outa this one. And either comes close to M specs.

Xiolablu3
10-20-2005, 02:45 PM
I often wonder about the jug, if this plane could dofight with the best of them, was incredibley resistant to fire and had a really long range, then why bother with little fighters like the 109,Spit, 190,P51 etc.

Surely its massive weight and size compromised it when compared to a little nimble fighter, otherwise why not build all fighters that heavily armoured and big? Its certainly safer for the pilot and has longer range usually (apart from p51.)


I guess what I am trying to say is 'Can we expect the P47 to seriously challenge the smaller nimble fighters in a 1 on 1 equal dogfight?'

If yes then why didnt later fighter designs copy that design (natural selection sort of idea)

Same with the P38, if it was capable as a fighter then why no more forked tail twin engine fighters?

Kwiatos
10-20-2005, 03:14 PM
P-47 in 4.02 have 1 serious error in FM - roll rate at high speed is too slow. RL P-47 roll 70 deg/sec at 600 km/h - in game only 45 deg/sec.

p1ngu666
10-20-2005, 03:15 PM
p61? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and read what lrrp22 said aswell *everyone*

think the D27 has 2500-2600ish HP, the M had 2800, so its got a 200-300hp window to fit in. at most your looking at 10%~ over a D27

i have a feeling its about 7%~ more power from stuff ages ago.

the intial M's didnt have wingracks, either iirec

sgilewicz
10-20-2005, 03:41 PM
Xiolablu3:
F4, F14, F15-All big, fast and long ranged. I think the jug started something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

fordfan25
10-20-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I often wonder about the jug, if this plane could dofight with the best of them, was incredibley resistant to fire and had a really long range, then why bother with little fighters like the 109,Spit, 190,P51 etc.

Surely its massive weight and size compromised it when compared to a little nimble fighter, otherwise why not build all fighters that heavily armoured and big? Its certainly safer for the pilot and has longer range usually (apart from p51.)


I guess what I am trying to say is 'Can we expect the P47 to seriously challenge the smaller nimble fighters in a 1 on 1 equal dogfight?'

If yes then why didnt later fighter designs copy that design (natural selection sort of idea)

Same with the P38, if it was capable as a fighter then why no more forked tail twin engine fighters?


from every thing i have read in books "made by men who were there and flew them in combat" the p-47 was not nearly as manuverble as a 109 and just under that of a FW down low. but up high it was more than a match for the FW and on par with a 109. it was big and heavy for multi resones. long range,heavey load out,and durabilty. the DM's in this sim are "IMO from every thing i have read" just not right in many ways. with planes like the jug and hog we get all the disadvantge's of the big heavy construction but there no more durable than a 109 or la-7. also pilotes of planes like the jug or corsair do not have a dive advantge over the smaller lighter planes like thay did IRL. true you can dive a little longer in a 47 than in a la-7 before plane comes apart BUT there is no ecelaration advantge like IRL.

the resone for the p-38 being fased out after the war was that jets were becomeing the norm and it was just simply cheaper to build,maintain and oparate a single engien prop like a p-51. notice that many jets have two engiens. i think alot of people who are just getting into ww2 avation are playing this sim and takeing every thing to heart. this sim is the best on the market as far as i know but IMHO its a long way from perfect.both in FM and DM.

Grey_Mouser67
10-20-2005, 03:49 PM
I did some pretty extensive speed testing with the new Jug early on and it is about 10km/hr faster at all altitudes than the D-27 and has a slightly lower critical altitude...around 7000 meters vs. 7500 meters.

I took the statement "near M performance" to mean it is closer to 470+mph at 30K than it was to P-47D-27 performance at 30....or beyond the median between 430mph and 470mph...or 455mph+ at 30K....call me crazy, but that is the definition of "near" to me!

No matter what and why this happened...it shouldn't have unless "near" means something different in russian than it does in english and I'm pretty certain it doesn't. The climb rate does seem to be impressive, but I haven't tested it yet...in fact, I'm not sure what the official testing method is so if anyone knows what the generally accepted climb test methodology is, please pass it along. I'm getting the impression that the Jug is climbing along at maybe 4000 ft./minute which would be accurate to the information I have that would be pretty "near" M performance.

In addition, the Jug is perhaps the worst of the wobblers now...I have video of the plane flying today and it does not wobble like that. Pretty easy to tell...all you got to do is go see an airshow or look at some film of real P-47's flying today!

Looks like another one slipped through the slippery fingers of the UBI/1C Quality Control group!

Can you imagine what kind of sim we'd have if the FM's were done correctly the first time and how many resources would be available to do other things other than "rework"?

Takata_
10-20-2005, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I often wonder about the jug, if this plane could dofight with the best of them, was incredibley resistant to fire and had a really long range, then why bother with little fighters like the 109,Spit, 190,P51 etc.

Surely its massive weight and size compromised it when compared to a little nimble fighter, otherwise why not build all fighters that heavily armoured and big? Its certainly safer for the pilot and has longer range usually (apart from p51.)


I guess what I am trying to say is 'Can we expect the P47 to seriously challenge the smaller nimble fighters in a 1 on 1 equal dogfight?'

If yes then why didnt later fighter designs copy that design (natural selection sort of idea)

Same with the P38, if it was capable as a fighter then why no more forked tail twin engine fighters?

S~!

Off topic, but I think exactly the same as you: this game emphasize on a tactical point of view that most US designs were not designed for in real life; comparing dogfight performance between P-47/P-38 vs La-7/Yak-3 is likely comparing apples with oranges.

Las' and Yaks' were designed as light and powerfull as possible to increase the close -low alt.- ability to dogfight inside a radius of 250-300 km with a flight time not exeeding 1.5 hour.
The design was rustical at will, allowing a very low level of manpower for maintaining both the airframe and the engine. They had absolutly the minimum flight equipment, operating in day time at few miles from the frontline, were based on non prepared airfields, they were easy and cheap to build but not made to last a decade, only 1-2 years life was expected.
They could work from -40?C to +40?C if weather was not too bad, outperform any opponent caught at their own game and protect the tactical bombers supporting the ground fight. That is what they were designed for.

On the other hand, US designs were almost the opposite: very sophisticated with all the comfort for several hours flights, all weather instrumentation, huge range, very high reliability (needed for such distance), had the capability to move tons of payload, reach stratospherical hights at very high speeds... Maintaining/building them needed a lot of highly skilled people and a lot of quality equipment/infrastructure.
So, they were expensive planes (especially P-38 and P-47), able to fly for several decades. All those features had a cost in terms of weight.

An heavy weighted plane just can't be as nimble as a light one, you are right... But it could fly and dive fast (if advertised) and be a top performer in such high speed fights like we suppose they were. Most of those fighters engagement above Germany were high speed battles were Ponies and Jugs excelled vs fighters busy to bring down the bombers. That is what they were designed for.

Plz, give us a good and fast Jug!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S~
Takata.

ICDP
10-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by lrrp22:
I think many of us misunderstand what Oleg meant by 'close to P-47M' performance. The P-47M reached 470 mph at 32,000 ft where its C-type engine was still producing 2800 HP at 72" Hg. The P-47D-27, regardless of fuel used, will only develop somewhere around 50" Hg at that altitude.

In other words, the P-47M-like performance will only come at altitudes where the -27's R-2800-59 B-type engine can maintain 70" Hg/~2700 HP. The D-27's max boost at 26,000 ft was 64" Hg, so above 26,000 feet the standard P-47D-27 and '150 octane' P-47D should have identical performance. Below that altitude, the 'boosted' version should be faster than the standard with the biggest difference occuring somewhere around 22,000 ft.


.

If this is the case then it should have been described better. It would seem the boosted P47 is slightly faster and has a better ROC. If this is the case then it is a welcome addition. My definition of near means almost or close to, this is what was throwing me off.

Thanks for the clarification.

lrrp22
10-20-2005, 05:53 PM
Mouser,

I think a lot of people assumed that the idea behind the P-47D 'Late/1944/150 octane' was to to skirt copyright issues and give us a P-47M in all-but-name. It wasn't. Oleg is attempting to replicate a genuine squadron-service example. The P-47D 1944 represents an VIII Fighter Command P-47D-25 thru 30 running at 70" Hg War Emergency Rating manifold pressure on 100/150 Grade fuel.

The 70" Hg P-47D is 'Near' P-47M performance at altitudes below about 21,500 ft.

Here's what I'm getting,:
<span class="ev_code_yellow">
0 ft-------360 mph: +10 mph
10,000 ft--390 mph: +15 mph
20,000 ft--426 mph: +20 mph
21,000 ft--432 mph
</span>

The +10 mph, etc. are the speeds above the historical 64" Hg speeds. All those speeds are within about 10 mph of the P-47M. 21,500 ft is where Oleg set the 70" Hg Full Throttle Height. Above that altitude, the D's engine could not maintain 70" Hg no matter what kind of fuel it used. That might be a little low, but I'm not sure. At 30,000 ft, the D-27 and P-47D 'Late' should have identical speeds.


LRRP



Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:

I took the statement "near M performance" to mean it is closer to 470+mph at 30K than it was to P-47D-27 performance at 30....or beyond the median between 430mph and 470mph...or 455mph+ at 30K....call me crazy, but that is the definition of "near" to me!

Grey_Mouser67
10-20-2005, 06:29 PM
That would explain it for sure...I don't really have too much of an issue with the critical altitude being 7K and I really like the climb rate and to tell ya the truth, I couldn't find any references to the boost levels and didn't know what exactly to expect, but I did have a pretty good idea of what the M could do.

Never expected an M and I didn't think this was an attempt to skirt the copyright issue...I though Oleg was making an effort to balance online gameplay by bringing in some late war allied aircraft with improved performance to match up with the G6AS, G-10's, K's, A-9's and Dora's....the extra climb rate will help, but 6 mph of extra sea level speed is about as handy as a crutch....but I can't argue from a point of fact either that it is wrong so until I find better info, i will certainly accept your interpretation of the "near M" performance.

I doubt this will balance gameplay. What WOULD balance gameplay (Listen Up Oleg) is proper dive modelling, damage modelling, desynced hmg's with api ammo and improve the stability and control dampening of some allied aircraft to make them better gun platforms while improving E retention of the low drag Mustang, improve the elevator authority of the Lightning and improve FM/DM of Hellcat...add the tempest, spit Mk XIV too while we're at it!

p1ngu666
10-20-2005, 06:50 PM
yeah greymouse, i agree with u, but extra speed is often useful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

incidently, u forgot the mossie, which was also described as "useful" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight.
10-20-2005, 11:28 PM
TY LRRP

but really , you shouldnt have to type it out in plain english should you

for the complainers infomation LRRP had to do exactly the same thing when people questioned the Mustang mkIII 7k+ altitude speeds as compared to the D & B/C models

Badsight.
10-20-2005, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
i cant get that at alt even with 25% fuel full or 25% , the top speed remains almost exactly the same in FB

WOLFMondo
10-21-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by ICDP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
What did you expect from a P47D using 150 grade instead of 130 grade? No where did Oleg say it was the 'M', just had similar performance.

Similar performance would mean similar to 470mph at 32,000ft. It doesn't even get close so it can NOT be described as similar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its still a P47D. With different fuel, not a P47M. Did you expect wonders from a simple upgrade to the next quality of fuel? What actually does 150 grade do? Give 2 extra inches on the mercury? That won't give the P47D27 an extra 40mph at 30,000ft.

Did the P47D27 ever even use 150 grade fuel? Theres big fat warning notices on the right side of the engine cowling saying 130 grade only on all the pictures showing that much detail.

Aaron_GT
10-21-2005, 01:36 AM
lrrp22 - wasn't it Kahuna that sent through the documentation to Oleg? If anyone knows what was being modelled it would be Kahuna and I agree with you - I think it was supposed to represent a D as boosted in squadron service, not an M. I never did get a reply back from P&W about my 150 grade enquiry...

IL2-chuter
10-21-2005, 01:43 AM
All American combat aircraft were operated stateside with 100 octane fuel to conserve critical fuel ingredients for war. While using this fuel they were operated within certain power limitations due to the likelyhood (certainty) of detonation. Once in a combat zone they used 130 octane to avoid power restrictions, that is the reason for the stencil. When 150 was available it was used in aircraft with recalibrated carburation to increase the manifold pressure (boost) for more power. This was possible because of the higher octane fuel being more resistant to preignition and detonation.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fehler
10-21-2005, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by sgilewicz:
Xiolablu3:
F4, F14, F15-All big, fast and long ranged. I think the jug started something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And all multi-purposed... Not true dog fighters. That's why there are F-16's and F-18's.

The P-47 late is nothing more than a D27 with 150 gas. Why does everyone expect it to be flying so much faster than the D27?

If you ever looked in a Chilton's book on auto repair in the "Troubleshooting" section under "Poor power" after you accomplish all the tasks to check and see why you are not getting the power expected there is a phrase; "Poor understanding of factory accepted standard." I think this applies here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

MEGILE
10-21-2005, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:
Why does everyone expect it to be flying so much faster than the D27?



Its rather quite simple. Oleg's "close to P47M" statement led a few people to believe they were getting a P47M.... but its quite obvious to me and you they aren't.
Easy mistake.

ICDP
10-21-2005, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ICDP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
What did you expect from a P47D using 150 grade instead of 130 grade? No where did Oleg say it was the 'M', just had similar performance.

Similar performance would mean similar to 470mph at 32,000ft. It doesn't even get close so it can NOT be described as similar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its still a P47D. With different fuel, not a P47M. Did you expect wonders from a simple upgrade to the next quality of fuel? What actually does 150 grade do? Give 2 extra inches on the mercury? That won't give the P47D27 an extra 40mph at 30,000ft.

Did the P47D27 ever even use 150 grade fuel? Theres big fat warning notices on the right side of the engine cowling saying 130 grade only on all the pictures showing that much detail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When someone says the word near it has a certain meaning in english. It means similar to or almost the same as or beside. It isn't my problem that the specs of the boosted P47 weren't properly posted or if the boosted P47 was described wrong in the readme. There were plenty of posts indicating (hinting) that the new P47 was "a way to get a P47M into the game". I really don't want to debate symantecs with you. Suffice to say that it was a communication error and not on my or most other peoples part.

Looking at the numbers posted by LRRP the new boosted P47 is NOT NEAR P47M performance.

Now stop being an ***hole and let it go. I already admited that I took the meaning of "near" literaly.

WOLFMondo
10-21-2005, 03:49 AM
Insulting people won't get you anywhere round here. I'm not the one who needs to let it go. I can live with the fact its not a P47M but a D with a different fuel.:P

The two weeks thing is almost as famous as Olegs dodgy Englishhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

geetarman
10-21-2005, 04:07 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lrrp22:
Mouser,

I think a lot of people assumed that the idea behind the P-47D 'Late/1944/150 octane' was to to skirt copyright issues and give us a P-47M in all-but-name. It wasn't. Oleg is attempting to replicate a genuine squadron-service example. The P-47D 1944 represents an VIII Fighter Command P-47D-25 thru 30 running at 70" Hg War Emergency Rating manifold pressure on 100/150 Grade fuel.

The 70" Hg P-47D is 'Near' P-47M performance at altitudes below about 21,500 ft.

Here's what I'm getting,:
<span class="ev_code_yellow">
0 ft-------360 mph: +10 mph
10,000 ft--390 mph: +15 mph
20,000 ft--426 mph: +20 mph
21,000 ft--432 mph
</span>

The +10 mph, etc. are the speeds above the historical 64" Hg speeds. All those speeds are within about 10 mph of the P-47M. 21,500 ft is where Oleg set the 70" Hg Full Throttle Height. Above that altitude, the D's engine could not maintain 70" Hg no matter what kind of fuel it used. That might be a little low, but I'm not sure. At 30,000 ft, the D-27 and P-47D 'Late' should have identical speeds.


LRRP


A typical good post from Irrp on US aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

How I wish Oleg had done a USAAF Mustang B and/or D pulling 72", considering their widespread usage (and the phase-out of Thunderbolts) after summer 1944.

ICDP
10-21-2005, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Insulting people won't get you anywhere round here. I'm not the one who needs to let it go. I can live with the fact its not a P47M but a D with a different fuel.:P

The two weeks thing is almost as famous as Olegs dodgy Englishhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Sorry WOLF, I was a bit rash with my statement. I was simply stating that it was a missunderstandig due to poor wording in the readme.

VVS-Manuc
10-21-2005, 04:39 AM
Oleg gave you boost-whiners a placebo P-47...be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

sgilewicz
10-21-2005, 08:45 AM
Quote by Fehler:
And all multi-purposed... Not true dog fighters. That's why there are F-16's and F-18's.

Well if you mean TnB fighters I definitely agree but if you refer to their A2A capability then their record are sterling! IIRC the F15 has 100 kills without loss. Not bad for non-dogfighter (kinda like some big old fat WW2 airplane we've been discussing-the one with the lowest combat loss ratio?) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Grey_Mouser67
10-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by geetarman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lrrp22:
Mouser,

I think a lot of people assumed that the idea behind the P-47D 'Late/1944/150 octane' was to to skirt copyright issues and give us a P-47M in all-but-name. It wasn't. Oleg is attempting to replicate a genuine squadron-service example. The P-47D 1944 represents an VIII Fighter Command P-47D-25 thru 30 running at 70" Hg War Emergency Rating manifold pressure on 100/150 Grade fuel.

The 70" Hg P-47D is 'Near' P-47M performance at altitudes below about 21,500 ft.

Here's what I'm getting,:
<span class="ev_code_yellow">
0 ft-------360 mph: +10 mph
10,000 ft--390 mph: +15 mph
20,000 ft--426 mph: +20 mph
21,000 ft--432 mph
</span>

The +10 mph, etc. are the speeds above the historical 64" Hg speeds. All those speeds are within about 10 mph of the P-47M. 21,500 ft is where Oleg set the 70" Hg Full Throttle Height. Above that altitude, the D's engine could not maintain 70" Hg no matter what kind of fuel it used. That might be a little low, but I'm not sure. At 30,000 ft, the D-27 and P-47D 'Late' should have identical speeds.


LRRP


A typical good post from Irrp on US aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

How I wish Oleg had done a USAAF Mustang B and/or D pulling 72", considering their widespread usage (and the phase-out of Thunderbolts) after summer 1944.


I'd also add that 10km/hr is 6.2 mph which, based on this post is assumed accurate, the new D is only "near M performance" at sea level...6 mph is nearer to 0 than to 15 or 20 mph so maybe there is still room to eek another 10-20 km/hr.

I'd also add that the Mustang Mk III and P-38L got MUCH faster as a result of the extra boost so I felt like we'd "feel and measure" a similar difference in the D...maybe not so fast as Mustang MkIII because it is such a low drag design and better at low alt to begin with, and the L model is fubar but "near" those increases.

I think Oleg has some room to improve the performance of the D late...we'll see.

Does anyone have specific data on the speed of the high boost P-47?