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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:07 AM
Focke-Wulf Fw Ta 283
http://www.luft46.com/fw/3bfta283.jpg

This ramjet-powered fighter had along, pointed nose and the cockpit was faired in to the large vertical fin. It was to be powered by a Walter HWK rocket engine for take-off and two Pabst ramjets once operating speed was reached. The wings were mounted low on the fuselage and were swept back at 45 degrees. The ramjets were located on the tips of the sharply swept tailplanes to avoid any disturbance of the airflow. The aircraft sat very low on a retractable nose wheel undercarriage. Armament was to be two MK 108 30mm cannon.

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-1.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-2a.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-3.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-4.jpg


So did this thing really Fly?

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:07 AM
Focke-Wulf Fw Ta 283
http://www.luft46.com/fw/3bfta283.jpg

This ramjet-powered fighter had along, pointed nose and the cockpit was faired in to the large vertical fin. It was to be powered by a Walter HWK rocket engine for take-off and two Pabst ramjets once operating speed was reached. The wings were mounted low on the fuselage and were swept back at 45 degrees. The ramjets were located on the tips of the sharply swept tailplanes to avoid any disturbance of the airflow. The aircraft sat very low on a retractable nose wheel undercarriage. Armament was to be two MK 108 30mm cannon.

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-1.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-2a.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-3.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-4.jpg


So did this thing really Fly?

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:33 AM
No...it was never built

fluke39
10-10-2003, 11:41 AM
interesting - the germans designed loads of protype jets many of which were rather bizzare looking - many more so than that - anyone remember the flugel thingy?(or something like that) that was kinda like a cartoon space rocket (cigar shaped) with a helicopter type rotor revolving round the centre of the fuselage powered by jets/rockets on the ends of the blades? - i think the americans actually built a similar one - but found it almost impossible to land as the pilot was facing up to the sky and couldn't actually see the ground.

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:51 AM
It looks like it's been taken directly out of Star-Wars . . . /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 12:04 PM
FlyingRussian wrote:
-
- It looks like it's been taken directly out of
- Star-Wars . . .


Maybe the other way around?

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 01:34 PM
Do a search on the Messerschmitt Me-239, a simply beautiful plane and there was a prototype built.

PS. Did you know the Starwars stormtroopers use slightly modified German MG-34 Machine guns? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

EDIT: Oh and Han Solo's "laserpistol" is a modified German Luger!

<center>
---------------------------------------
Fokker G.I
http://www.defensie.nl:30280/home/pictures/7370.jpg
http://www.uvika.dn.ua/av/PLANE/HOLLAND/FOKKER_G-1/Fokker_G-1b_03a-n.jpg
</center>


Message Edited on 10/10/0302:35PM by Red_Storm

fluke39
10-10-2003, 01:57 PM
Red_Storm wrote:

- PS. Did you know the Starwars stormtroopers use
- slightly modified German MG-34 Machine guns? -
- EDIT: Oh and Han Solo's "laserpistol" is a modified
- German Luger!


Huh - no i didn't actually /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- i'd always wondered where they got the inspiration for darth vaders helmet from... i've never seen any design like it - especially the way it points out more towards the bottom /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

always wondered about the tie fighter cockpits too, never seen that kind of design anywhere, especially not sticking out the bottom of a B17 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 10/10/0312:59PM by fluke39

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 02:07 PM
George Lucas was quite proud of taking many elemnts of the WW2 warfare into the movie. Boasting about analysing the (air) fighter techniques and movies for that purpose (disregarding the fact that the conditions in space are entirely different).

Have you ever compared the look from the Millenium Falcon's cockpit to the one from a B-29?

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:26 PM
HansKnappstick wrote:
- George Lucas was quite proud of taking many elemnts
- of the WW2 warfare into the movie. Boasting about
- analysing the (air) fighter techniques and movies
- for that purpose (disregarding the fact that the
- conditions in space are entirely different).
-
- Have you ever compared the look from the Millenium
- Falcon's cockpit to the one from a B-29?

Or the ball turrets? or the laser beams which behave like bullets with tracers (despite their flat trajectory - we have those in FB, so it must be realistichttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), you can actually see the beam traveling to the target.

Plenty of ww2 elements.


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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:31 PM
i think han solo's pistol was modeled after a broom handled mauser pistol, not a luger /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:36 PM
Ta 283 is my fav whatif design. Looks odd but yet so cool.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:38 PM
Art work is very well done. Super! It would be great to try it againest the B-1 Soviet machine. Maybe we will hear more about it in the future as a add on? Something to add in Santas Wish List. Again great work,Thanks

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:40 PM
fluke39 wrote:

- [sarcasm]- i'd always wondered where they got the
- inspiration for darth vaders helmet from... i've
- never seen any design like it - especially the way
- it points out more towards the bottom

Darth Vader's helmet, as well as many other things in the Star Wars series, was inspired on medieval japanese warfare. The helmet looks exactly like a samuray warrior helmet. Other things like Yoda and Ben Kenobi's robes, the whole sword fighting, etc. is also very japanese.

Aaaah... such awesome movies. To bad the new ones did not lived up the expectations...

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:55 PM
Maybe, but NOTHING beats the Me-189 fanjet prototype for pure beauty!!!! Blows the Me-239 away!

Red_Storm wrote:
- Do a search on the Messerschmitt Me-239, a simply
- beautiful plane and there was a prototype built.
-


S!

SKULLS_LZ

SKULLS Squadron VF-98
"Better than the Best"

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:27 PM
Great plane - how 'bout this one...

EWM A9 manned rocket

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/v2_a9_001.jpg

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/v2_a9_002.jpg

Developed from 1940 onward - based on a (modified) V2 rocket. This thing was supposed to drop the german atomic bomb on the usa

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/v2_a9_003.jpg

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/v2_a9_004.jpg

max speed : 9200 ft/second
weight : 16260 kg
bomb load : 2200 lbs Amatol (german atomic bomb)


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

But then... you should see the RFZ1 .. RFZ7 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

(RFZ= RundFlugZeug = UFO) hehehe

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/Vril_7.jpg

(yes they flew - see references to foo-fighters during WWII)
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:35 PM
Copperhead310th wrote:
- So did this thing really Fly?

Nope! Most of those Luft46 ideas never got off the drawing board.. Heck, most never made it off the napkin to the drawing board! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Here is one that at least got some hardware.. but note how different the hardware is from the line drawing.. It is about as different as a real 109K withou flettner tabs as the line drawing of a 109K with them! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Line Drawing:
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/LippischLP13aDrawing.jpg


Actual Hardware:
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/LippischLP13aActual.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/lippisch/dm1-1.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/lippisch/dm1-2.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/lippisch/dm1-3.jpg


http://www.luft46.com/lippisch/lip13a.html

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Message Edited on 10/10/0310:40AM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:35 PM
http://my.homeip.net/abbe/crimsonskies/aircraft/luft46/bv.p.170/kw170-3.jpg

http://my.homeip.net/abbe/crimsonskies/aircraft/luft46/bv.p.190/bv193-1.jpg

http://my.homeip.net/abbe/crimsonskies/aircraft/luft46/fw.42/fw42-1.gif

http://my.homeip.net/abbe/crimsonskies/aircraft/luft46/heinkellerche/mmlerc5.jpg



http://www.luft46.com/luftart.html


http://www.luft46.com/tpart/tp212-3.jpg


http://www.luft46.com/rmart/rmbmwp2.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mmtrb-2.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mm212-2.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/kwart/kw87-1.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/kwart/kw78-1.jpg


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Message Edited on 10/10/0301:39PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:48 PM
Stupid Star Wars trivia

The squad blaster used by storm troopers was the MG-34
The heavy blaster was a cut-down Lewis gun
The standard blaster used by storm troopers was the Sterling sub-machine gun.
The Jawa stun-blaster was a cut up british Enfield rifle, so were several 'sand-people' guns.
Han Solo's gun was a mauser broom handle.

The voice of yoda is the same voice as 'Animal' from the muppet show. If Yoda ever went girl crazy you;d get animal. (I not this after seeing an episode of the old Muppet show where Animal talks slow and intelligently for a few seconds)

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:04 PM
The Trebeflugal if thats what it was called?

The rotary wing design, was that aerodynamically possible?

I can see it taking off vertically and helicoptering at fantastic speed into an intercept position above and infront of the bombers but was horizontal flight remotely possible with a rotary wing of that sort?

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:19 PM
If you mean this one (TreibFl├╝gel) - yes it could fly as a "normal"plane because the engines (2-types in 1 housing) are ON THE WING and not on the fuselage (they wont turn the fuselage as much as like in a helicopter where the motor is part of the fuselage and takes the reaction-force)

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/2trieb.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:25 PM
Understood, but what gives lift.

Surely the rotor would have to be sationary with one blade down and all feathered to provide lift?

But maybe horizontal flight was never envisaged, you could simply clinb up quick and dive down through the bombers over and over before rotoring down like a sycamore leaf.

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:35 PM
Oboe wrote:
- Understood, but what gives lift.
-
- Surely the rotor would have to be sationary with one
- blade down and all feathered to provide lift?
-
- But maybe horizontal flight was never envisaged, you
- could simply clinb up quick and dive down through
- the bombers over and over before rotoring down like
- a sycamore leaf.


It's the reversed problem of a helicopter. What gives an helicopter thrust, how does the helicopter flies forward? The rotor provides lift to counter the weight, but where's the thrust? Well the thrust comes from the fact that lift is offset to vertical axis (the rotor is not paralel with the ground), so there is a small horizontal component that gives thrust. This is why the helicopters are slow, much too small thrust.

Triebflugel uses the same idea, but reversed. When it flies horizontally the thrust (and also its fuselage) is not parallel with the ground, but offset, giving a small vertical component to counter the weight.


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Message Edited on 10/10/0301:37PM by Huckebein_FW

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:52 PM
I seehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It would be unmissable if anyone ever managed to build and fly such a beast!!!!

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:56 PM
The wings can be tilted (like prop pitch), at take-off they would be about 3 degrees and then increasing upto 90 degrees.

top speed was 621 mph in horizontal flight
Engines were to be 3 "Ramjetmachinen Lorin" each 1850 lbs thrust. (on the wingtips) and one turbine engine for take-off (in fuselage)
Armement : 2-mk 103 30-Millimeter-Kanonen
2-mg 151 20-Millimeter-Kanonen

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/6treib.jpg


Convair Xfy-1 and Lockheed Xfv-1 were later developments based on this design

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Message Edited on 10/10/03Ô 09:00PM by lil_labbit

Message Edited on 10/10/0309:03PM by lil_labbit

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:07 PM
That's just nuts! very cool BUT NUTZ!.
petty the only really STRANG desihn the USAAF could come up with is the flying flapjack.

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:16 PM
http://www.siss.duke.edu/schedule/0940/ME/239/

did a search on the me-239... no plane, but i did get a university module on unstable aerodynamics... quite ironic really judging by most luft '46 designs

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:25 PM
Just another German wonder drawing. Every country had fastastic stuff like this on the drawing board and even in prototypes. These things dont win wars.

Gib

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:27 PM
tfu_iain1 wrote:
-
- did a search on the me-239... no plane, but i did
- get a university module on unstable aerodynamics...
- quite ironic really judging by most luft '46 designs
-
don't you mean the me329 ??

http://www.luft46.com/mess/me329.html

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

dont know a me-239....



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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:29 PM
lil_labbit wrote:
- top speed was 621 mph in horizontal flight

Huh?

- Engines were to be 3 "Ramjetmachinen Lorin" each
- 1850 lbs thrust. (on the wingtips) and one turbine
- engine for take-off (in fuselage)

Were?

- Armement : 2-mk 103 30-Millimeter-Kanonen
- 2-mg 151 20-Millimeter-Kanonen

You say it like they actually build one and did some flight tests on it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:38 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Just another German wonder drawing. Every country
- had fastastic stuff like this on the drawing board
- and even in prototypes. These things dont win wars.
-

hehe that goes for the horten Go229 also ?

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/horten_229_B2.jpg

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:46 PM
lil_labbit wrote:
- Gibbage1 wrote:
-- Just another German wonder drawing. Every country
-- had fastastic stuff like this on the drawing board
-- and even in prototypes. These things dont win wars.
--
-
- hehe that goes for the horten Go229 also ?
-

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/horten_229_B2.jpg

Actually the Northrop Grumman B2 was based on the following flying wing made by Northrop back in 1937

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NorthropN9MB.jpg


http://www.planesoffame.com

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Message Edited on 10/10/0304:31PM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:46 PM
Hmmmm... some of these thingsd remind me of Crimson Skies.....

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 09:07 PM
tagert wrote:
- lil_labbit wrote:
-- top speed was 621 mph in horizontal flight
-
- Huh?
-
-- Engines were to be 3 "Ramjetmachinen Lorin" each
-- 1850 lbs thrust. (on the wingtips) and one turbine
-- engine for take-off (in fuselage)
-
- Were?
-
-- Armement : 2-mk 103 30-Millimeter-Kanonen
-- 2-mg 151 20-Millimeter-Kanonen
-
- You say it like they actually build one and did some
- flight tests on it.

I said "were to be" that's something else than "were"
This machine never flew hehe transition of take-off to level flight (which means switching the engines) and take-off/landing were thought to be too troublesome...

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XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:13 PM
can anyone find a pic of the FW-500? i've seen it before but have lost the adress. that thing is straight out of science fiction.

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:44 PM
This?


http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds500-1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:50 PM
yea, thats it. even if the thing wasn't able to destroy planes, it would sure take a toll on the syche of the crews. can you imagine things like that flying around your plane? yikes.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:03 AM
To say that "Luft'46" were just some drawings on a piece a paper is ignorant. They spent years in wind tunnel to make new designs for the future generation of military planes. This wealth of knowledge captured by the americans and russians (and to some extent other countries) radically transformed their airforces in just a few years.

Some of the designs look curious, but they all were adapted to some particular need. There is no need today for a point defence interceptor, SAM can do that very good. At that time Germany desperately needed one, this is why there are so many projects of this kind.

Also all the initial projects of single jet engine interceptors look odd simply because engine limitations generated their appearance.

Some of the projects are still very interesting to make: for example the tilt rotor was done by Boeing. To me very interesting is Lerche, the annular wing - shrouded propeller design. It just might be the MBT of the future, replacing the today's attack helicopters. Luft'46 still remains a very inspiring place.


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:04 AM
And then you'd hose it with your .50 cal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:09 AM
lil_labbit wrote:
- I said "were to be" that's something else than
- "were"

Whoops, u r correct, my bad! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- This machine never flew hehe transition of take-off
- to level flight (which means switching the engines)
- and take-off/landing were thought to be too
- troublesome...

That would have been the LEAST of thier troublesomes! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:20 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- To say that "Luft'46" were just some drawings on a
- piece a paper is ignorant. They spent years in wind
- tunnel to make new designs for the future generation
- of military planes.

Actully to think that wind tunnel testing of a model means they were close to production is ignorant IMHO. Drawing up something, making a model of it and putting it in a wind tunnel is the easy and EARLY part to do.

- This wealth of knowledge captured by the americans
- and russians (and to some extent other countries)
- radically transformed their airforces in just a few
- years.

That is a myth really.. The American, British and Russian stuff was right up there. The only thing the Germans had over the Americans, British, and Russians is a 7+ year head start in RnD that the Americans, British and Russians closed the gap in within just 2 to 3 years.

- Some of the designs look curious, but they all were
- adapted to some particular need. There is no need
- today for a point defence interceptor, SAM can do
- that very good. At that time Germany desperately
- needed one, this is why there are so many projects
- of this kind.

On that note, I really like the selective memorys folks have when it comes to German foo-fighters.. Take a look at the Gotha for example.. Everyone thinks WOW the Germans were really ahead of us all.. A FLYUING WING! Well Northrup was right up there with them, then had a flying wing.. not a glider.. way back in 1937.. and get this IT IS STILL FLYING TODAY! And it's offspring the B2 is also flying today! But when ever someone looks at a B2.. they think that idea came from the Germans Gotha.. NOT.

- Also all the initial projects of single jet engine
- interceptors look odd simply because engine
- limitations generated their appearance.

Maybe.

- Some of the projects are still very interesting to
- make: for example the tilt rotor was done by Boeing.
- To me very interesting is Lerche, the annular wing -
- shrouded propeller design. It just might be the MBT
- of the future, replacing the today's attack
- helicopters.

Enh.

- Luft'46 still remains a very inspiring place.

Agreed it is neat... in a SWOTL *what if* kind of way. The germans are lucky really that they didnt develope them thus extend the war a few months.. Because that would have just opened them up for a little A-BOMB visit



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Message Edited on 10/10/0304:25PM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:39 AM
The storm troopers carried British Sterling MG's as the "Pistol" while the "long" gun was made wth MG34's. Hans' pistol was a Broom Handle Mauser as mentioed by someone else above..

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:48 AM
Didn't George Jettson, of Spacely Space Sprocketts, fly one of those ?

The genuine Hawg-dawg....Tx USA
Proud former member of Kelly Johnson's "SKUNK WORKS"
Fat Boys and.... Props Forever....Baby

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:16 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:

-
- Some of the designs look curious, but they all were
- adapted to some particular need. There is no need
- today for a point defence interceptor, SAM can do
- that very good. At that time Germany desperately
- needed one, this is why there are so many projects
- of this kind.
-
-

Why was Germany developing manned intercepters when they were develpong these?

"Surface-to-Air Missiles
Enzian
The design of Enzian was inspired by the Me 163 rocket-powered fighter aircraft. Its delta-wing layout and relatively fat fuselage were similar. It had four boost engines and a sustainer. A small number was built, but problems with the engines and the guidance system were never resolved.

Feuerlilie
Anti-aircraft missile. It had a streamlined body and twin tail fins. It was powered by a rocket engine and had radio command guidance. Although development continued until the end of the war, it was never ready.

Hecht
Surface-to-air missile, in development until it was replaced by more promising designs in 1941.

Henschel Hs 117 Schmetterling
Of all experimental surface-to-air missiles, this one came closest to an operational weapons system. At the end of the war it was in production, but it was never operationally used. With a length of 4.29m, it was a relatively small missile. Its shape was that of a small aircraft, with a sustainer rocket engine in its body, and two boost engines, mounted above and below its fuselage. Range was about 32km, and it could be used against targets up to 10,000m high, although in such cases guidance problems were considerable: Aiming was visual, by means of a radio command link. There were also experiments with air-drops, with the use of radar for guidance, and with proximity fuses.

Rheintochter
This was a large anti-aircraft missile, rather crude in design. It had four tail fins, six fins on the center body, and four canard control fins. It had a boost engine in the tail, and a sustainer in the front fuselage. Control was again visual aiming with a radio command link. Rheintochter III was smaller than Rheintochter I, but had better performance. The project was abandoned in December 1944.

Taifun
This was an unguided anti-aircraft weapon. It was a simple, 1.93m long, spin-stabilized rocket with a 0.5kg warhead. Taifun was accelerated to Mach 3+, and could reach altitudes up to 15000m. It was intended to fire salvos of 30 missiles. At the end of the war it was in mass production.

Wasserfall
The Wasserfall SAM was developed at Peenem├╝de, and was based on experience with the A-4, also known as V-2. It was smaller, but of similar shape and also powered by liquid fuels. The operator used input from radars tracking both the target and the missile to steer it, using a radio command link. A proximity fuse would ignite the 235kg warhead. The program was cancelled in February 1945, when it was close to the production stage."



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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:25 AM
Milo,
because they could not know which will be successful, and ready for service in less time.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:28 AM
The commie ba$tards were not very good with keeping up, despite the propaganda of this game.

They needed to copy Messerschmitt and Jumo to get a working jet. They need to copy Rolls Royce to have something worth a damn.

They needed to copy the B-29 to have anything even close to comparable.

If not for captured or purchased copies of the above, the cold war would have been a non-issue for a very long time. Especially the B-29.

Plus, didn't Yakolev say that the He100s they purchased influenced his designs?

Wonder what they would have pulled off without any of that. lol

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:37 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- Milo,
- because they could not know which will be
- successful, and ready for service in less time.
-

Huckie, the a/c were several years away from operational use, even if they could fly. Just love your logic, since the SAMs were much closer to operational usage./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif The "Wasserfall" was cancelled when almost ready for production. The "Taifun" was in mass production at war end.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:19 AM
- Many of the aircraft concepts (and that's what most
- were) by all nations were pretty far fetched at this
- time. History has proven that most of these concepts
- would not have worked, and those that may have
- worked would have been dodgy at best, mostly due to
- the fact that no digital flight control apparatus
- was available, or even thought of at the time.

Many have said the same thing about the Go-229, but the fact is it flew quite nicely. I have seen next to no substance to the idea that these concepts would have not flown or been "dodgy". In fact, with the exception of 1 or 2 of them, saying that seems like crap IMO.



Message Edited on 10/11/0310:04PM by Vengeanze

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:31 AM
FW190fan wrote:

- Because some members of this forum simply cannot
- stomach the thought of German designs both realized
- and theoretical as being technically sound and in
- some cases ingenious.


And some members can not help but to assign mythic qualities to German designs and attribute all aeronautical developements that occurred after WWII to German inspiration.

Case in point: Ho-229/B-2.

And that's just one of hundreds I've seen.



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:35 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- FW190fan wrote:
-
-- Because some members of this forum simply cannot
-- stomach the thought of German designs both realized
-- and theoretical as being technically sound and in
-- some cases ingenious.
-
-
- And some members can not help but to assign mythic
- qualities to German designs and attribute all
- aeronautical developements that occurred after WWII
- to German inspiration.
-
- Case in point: Ho-229/B-2.
-
- And that's just one of hundreds I've seen.

Yup.. they all remember the 229 of 1945 but no one remembers Northrup's flying wing of 1937

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NorthropN9MB.jpg


Neat thing is you can still see if flying to this day.. I have to find that picture where they parked it next to the B2



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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:44 AM
There was an American a/c, believe it was a B-17, that was converted to FBY during WW2. Only electrical wires running to the motors controlling the control surfaces from the control column.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:46 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- There was an American a/c, believe it was a B-17,
- that was converted to FBY during WW2. Only
- electrical wires running to the motors controlling
- the control surfaces from the control column.

Wasnt that the one that they loaded up with bombs with the intent of flying it into the gnd.. There was some target they were after.. I foget what it was.. But they couldnt fly the B17 down like a dive bomber.. it kept righting itself.. On that subject.. Im pretty sure it was radio controled from another aircraft.. So, yes el motors, but not some analog computer flying it.

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:01 AM
No that was a 'ww' RC B-17 a/c. JFK's brother was killed in one.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"



Message Edited on 10/11/0301:03AM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:11 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- No that was a 'ww' RC B-17 a/c.

Oh! My bad! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- JFK's brother was killed in one.

Really? I thought he was killed early on in the war? Didnt that RC stuff happen later on? I seem to recal it being for the sub pens.. which makes it seem like an early war thing.. Anyway, how did he die *in* one... I thought they were un-manned? Oh.. wait.. I do recal something about pilots getting them off the gnd.. then bailing out before the RC took over.. Just how did he die than?


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:22 AM
tagert, premature explosion. It is mentioned in "The Mighty Eigth" by Freeman.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 03:39 PM
In reguards to Lil_labits comment on the Trieflugel. One of my uncles served in the 3th Inf Div in WW2. They captured one of the underground aircraft factories in the last day's of the war. He found and brought back the wooden model of this aircraft. He still has it. It's about 2ft high and the sections and wings which houses the jet engines turn.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:05 PM
FlyingRussian wrote:
-
- It looks like it's been taken directly out of
- Star-Wars

or Thunderbirds!

cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


< !--image map -->
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~tonybirchill/sig.jpg
<map name="main">
<area shape="rect" coords="0,0,200,54" href="http://www.il2airracing.com/" alt="Il2 online air racing">
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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:07 PM
backseatgunner wrote:
- or Thunderbirds!
-
- cheers,
- Tony

THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!

1.....
2.....
3.....
4.....

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:28 PM
woofiedog wrote:
- In reguards to Lil_labits comment on the Trieflugel.
- One of my uncles served in the 3th Inf Div in WW2.
- They captured one of the underground aircraft
- factories in the last day's of the war. He found and
- brought back the wooden model of this aircraft. He
- still has it. It's about 2ft high and the sections
- and wings which houses the jet engines turn.
-
-


Hey, now that's pretty cool. Has he ever considered donating it to the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum?


--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:52 PM
Do some research on the B-35. Designed in 1940. The B-2 was a derivitive of the B-35 program, NOT the Horten 229. The B-35 has the same wing span and controle surfaces as the B-2. You can clearly see from the pic you posted that the Ho-229 did NOT.

Gib

lil_labbit wrote:
- Gibbage1 wrote:
-- Just another German wonder drawing. Every country
-- had fastastic stuff like this on the drawing board
-- and even in prototypes. These things dont win wars.
--
-
- hehe that goes for the horten Go229 also ?
-
-

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:10 PM
If you can't find one of your post in this thread blame the cleaning lady:


http://www.theranch1041.com/cleaning_lady.jpg



Huck and Tag, u both got PMs. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:11 PM
tagert wrote:
- MiloMorai wrote:
-
-- JFK's brother was killed in one.
-
- Really? I thought he was killed early on in the war?
- Didnt that RC stuff happen later on? I seem to recal
- it being for the sub pens.. which makes it seem like
- an early war thing.. Anyway, how did he die *in*
- one... I thought they were un-manned? Oh.. wait.. I
- do recal something about pilots getting them off the
- gnd.. then bailing out before the RC took over..
- Just how did he die than?
-

Joseph Kennedy junior was the oldest son of Joseph Kennedy, Sr. and the older brother of future president John F. Kennedy.
He left Harvard Law School to join the Navy and served as a bomber pilot in World War II. He died when his plane, loaded with explosives for an attack on German V-2 rocket site, exploded shortly after takeoff. He was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross and the Air Medal for heroism.

there was movie (i think it was a TV movie )about his dead.
with Peter Strauss as Joseph Kennedy jr.

Boandl

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

BlitzPig_Rock
10-11-2003, 09:11 PM
Vengeanze wrote:
- If you can't find one of your post in this thread
- blame the cleaning lady:
-
-
http://www.theranch1041.com/cleaning_lady.jpg
-
-
-
- Huck and Tag, u both got PMs. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-
- http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

LOL I thought my eyes were going funny. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif





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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:53 PM
Vengeanze wrote:
- If you can't find one of your post in this thread
- blame the cleaning lady:

LOL! Roger! No Problem!



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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:05 PM
Boandlgramer wrote:
- Joseph Kennedy junior was the oldest son of Joseph
- Kennedy, Sr. and the older brother of future
- president John F. Kennedy.
- He left Harvard Law School to join the Navy and
- served as a bomber pilot in World War II. He died
- when his plane, loaded with explosives for an attack
- on German V-2 rocket site, exploded shortly after
- takeoff. He was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross
- and the Air Medal for heroism.

Navy? Huh? I what was he doing in a B17 than? I knew John was Navy... PT 109 and such.. but I though Joseph was army air force? Doh.. just read it agin, you said John was navy.. Ok got it now, my bad


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Message Edited on 10/11/0302:07PM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:18 PM
I think it was a PB4Y not a B-17:

Lieutenant Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr., an experienced navy pilot, and the eldest son of Ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy, was being groomed by his family to make a run for the U. S. Presidency after the war. Kennedy was the pilot aboard a Liberator Bomber. His co-pilot and only other crew member was Lieutenant Wilford J. Willy, a close friend of Arthur Bennett.Kennedy and Willy were to bail out of their Liberator drone bomber before it left the coast of England.

Two mother planes were to radio-control guide the bomber in a crash dive on the target, a V-2 rocket-launching site in Normandy. The airplane was in flight with routine checking of the radio controls proceeding satisfactorily, when at 6:20 p.m. on August 12, 1944, two explosions blasted the "drone" resulting in the death of Kennedy and his co-pilot.

No conclusion as to the cause of the explosion has ever been reached. Kennedy was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross and the Air Medal.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:18 PM
- Yup.. they all remember the 229 of 1945 but no one
- remembers Northrup's flying wing of 1937

Yep, and no one remembers the Ho I glider of the Horten brothers, flying in the mid-twenties...

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig.jpg (http://www.virtual-jabog32.de)

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig2.jpg (http://www.jg68.de.vu)

When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:33 PM
To A.K. Davis, I don't know if he has thought of donateing the model to a Museum or ect. I'll bring it up the next time I speak to him.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:06 PM
Bremspropeller wrote:
- Yep, and no one remembers the Ho I glider of the
- Horten brothers, flying in the mid-twenties...

Oh we remember.. we also remember that there were all kinds of strange things in the glider dept.. But powered aircraft is a whole nuther ball game. Northrup was dabbling with wings.. powered wings for a very long time.. but not only do people forget that.. they think the B2 was based on a German wing? Even with all the powered wings Northrup developed in the 30s,40s, and 50s... Kind of funny really that people would make that assumption.. Usally based off the fact they didnt know about the powered flying wing by Northrup in the 30s. I use to go down to chino when they were restoring it.. and I was there when the first flew it for the public.. really a sight to see.. a wing in powered flight.. it aint a kite! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:15 PM
Bremspropeller wrote:
-- Yup.. they all remember the 229 of 1945 but no one
-- remembers Northrup's flying wing of 1937
-
- Yep, and no one remembers the Ho I glider of the
- Horten brothers, flying in the mid-twenties...


Wrong, first flew in 1933.

http://aerostories.free.fr/constructeurs/horten/img7.jpg


"Their first glider, the Horten Ho I, was first flight tested at Bonn-Hagelar in July 1933. Although it was not a complete success, it opened the way for other models, including the Ho IV with a high aspect ratio wing of 24 meters in span, as well as their Ho III that soared to 7000 meters in 1938."

http://aerostories.free.fr/constructeurs/horten/page2.html

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:35 PM
You have missed the most important advance of air engineering during the WW2:

The RBJ-2-joy trim-on-a-slider Bat Turner TM, that allowed the German to convert fat-bottomed farm-grown one-eyebrowed weirdos into incredible aces just ignoring the laws of Physics. It was their major success, just followed by Anti-Neck-Pain TM absorbing system to allow Linda Blair view and X-Ray glasses with HUD, developed by N00B Systems, Inc., that included a periscope view to look thru the propeller hub. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

Treesqueak
10-12-2003, 12:47 AM
I've known about luft 46 for a couple of years. Lots of good/neat concepts.

Mike



http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/bender.jpg
Which Colossal Death Robot Are You? (http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/)

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 12:54 AM
heres some loon planes

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/

"Doctor Fact is knocking at the door. Someone, please, let the man in!"

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 08:34 AM
some infos about a Horten plane

According "Typenhandbuch der Deutschen Luftfahrttechnik "

H II m D - Habicht.Nurfl├╝gel- Flugzeug

80 PS Einsitzer Baujahr 1935
Spannweite 16, 5 m,
L├┬Ąnge 5 m
Leermasse 330 kg
Flugmasse 450 kg
Speed 200/ 180 / 60 km/h

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0