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VR_Cutter
01-04-2006, 10:39 AM
Has anyone else noticed that the He-111 bombsight seems to be messed up now?

In doing some testing last night, we found the only way to steadily track and bomb a target accurately was to set the bombsight to IAS and NOT TAS as we always did in the past?

Anyone else seen this? Should I be throwing away my IAS/TAS conversion charts? Seems like a bug to me.....

Flakwalker
01-04-2006, 12:08 PM
I have noticed the same problem, maybe the new dynamics?

Jetbuff
01-04-2006, 12:24 PM
Interesting. I must say though that I never noticed since I never use either TAS or IAS for aiming, just crosshair drift.

VR_Cutter
01-04-2006, 12:53 PM
Perhaps a bug snuck in when the new flight model was put in place?

This must have been wrong since at least 4.02 but I haven't noticed up until now.

joeap
01-04-2006, 04:52 PM
Post this at the ORR will check it myself.

p1ngu666
01-04-2006, 05:05 PM
been like it for ages, constant correction is needed so it tracks the target

LostPigeon
01-04-2006, 06:06 PM
I have to adjust the crosshairs to make sure they stay on target..I like the way they are I am extremly accuratewithh H.E.-111-h6. I have sank Moving ships from 5800meters with it.,but does take fine adjustment to hit accuratley..B-25 and the Betty are O.K. but not as acurate for me. I think there sights are slightly off..Of course I maybee slightly off as well.. LOL

FritzGryphon
01-04-2006, 06:07 PM
Negative. It used to work fine. Set TAS, set altitude (AGL!), and the CCIP did track the target properly.

I haven't tried the He-111 recently, but I have noticed the Stuvi sight is broken, now. The bomb lands far from the crosshair point, even when the dials are set properly. In pre-4.xx the Stuvi sight was very precise. Now, the bombing appears to consistantly fall very short of the crosshair.

The_Gog
01-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Are you all allowing for the targets height above sea level?

LostPigeon
01-04-2006, 10:47 PM
How do you allow for target height above sealevel?? I was always curious. I would geuss your altimeter is for for height above sea level.but how do you tell your alt above the ground and the your targets alt above sea level several thousand meters in front of you.
I have never used any thin my my true alt and havent had any problems with 111 but have not been as acurate with b-25 or betty please help!!

joeap
01-05-2006, 02:20 AM
How accurate was bombing in WWII anyway?

F16_Neo
01-05-2006, 02:24 AM
Was that on a summer or winter map?
Have noticed that a lower speed setting is necessary on wintermaps.
Anyway, I input a coarse speed from table, then adjust it until it tracks.

VR_Cutter
01-05-2006, 08:24 AM
Based on my testing it appears that the B25 is working correctly (it tracks pretty well if you set it up with TAS in mph)

The He-111 on the other hand is only tracking properly if you set it up with IAS. (Mind you it is perfect if you use IAS but still it should be using TAS)

In previous releases the 111 did use TAS and was perfect but the B-25 was wrong. It seems like someone tried to fix up the B-25 but messed up the He-111 in the process.

The_Gog
01-05-2006, 02:57 PM
Altimetres are setup for height above sea level (though I think you can adjust them to local conditions).
What this means is that providing your bombsight inputs are correct, you will nail a target from any height and speed with 100% accuracy if that target is at sea level BUT, if that target is +200m then your bombs will not land dead on, because the altimetre and bombsight don't know how high up the target is. Get yourself a piece of paper and draw a straight line and put a hill on it (side view). Place a target on the side of the hill. Now, imagine that you are at 2000m lining up on that target and you let your bombs go with everything lined up and sweet. Draw a line straight down from the target to the base line (lets assume that it is sea-level), THAT is the spot that your altimetre/bombsight thinks that the target is, not the actual tank or building that you are aiming at, because the bombsight doesn't know how high above sea level the target is.

When you are bombing from relatively low altitudes (when the bombs are still travelling forward when they hit the target) this will result in your bombs striking the ground before the target, when you are high (the bombs are falling pretty much straight down) this will result in better accuracy as the difference between the targets location and the actual location at sea level is much smaller (try it on your piece of paper).

I have found that bombing with a 111 at heights of 3000m and below that my bombs will always strike the ground short of the target area (because the bombsight thinks they still have further to go), at 4000m+, your accuracy is very good as the bombs are coming almost straight down.
How do you counter this?
For lower altitudes I mark my target about a football field further than it actually is, trial and error will give you a good idea of how much to lead the target, OR, if you want to be really scientific, you can adjust the altitude that you setup the bombsight to allow for the targets height above sea level ie: If the target is 200m+ sea level and you are bombing from 3000m, then set you bombsight altitude to 2800m.

Now this can be a tricky process, you have to know how high the target is (bit hard if it's miles behind enemy lines) and I'm not sure just how well modelled this aspect is in the game, but if you really take your bombing seriously and want to be as good at it as you can, then setup your own experiments and see what effect target altitude has on accuracy.....and be sure to post your results here!

I made a simple diagram to help explain all this, it can be found here,

http://users.tpg.com.au/narsil/bomb+diag.JPG

The Gog
Ex-131 Divisional Locating Battery, RAA

p1ngu666
01-05-2006, 03:12 PM
the bombs do drop differently, so certain types drop long, others short :\.

the problem i have is i cant set the bombsight to say, 3000metres, 320kph, and it track right, even if my plane is at exactly that height etc.. its the same with b25 and betty, the sights are the same, just different units.. plus different bombs.

irl theres wind and temprature changes and other things to throw u off target, plus many bombs tumbled

PBNA-Boosher
01-05-2006, 04:06 PM
Keep in mind that the starting position of the bombs may have effect. In the bomb bays of He-111's, weren't the munitions stored standing up?

The_Gog
01-05-2006, 05:27 PM
I doubt that the bomb positioning would have any or little impact on where they land.

Also, lighter bombs, as they flutter downward and are less stable, tend to fall short as they they take longer to get down. Bigger bombs tend to follow a more orthodox path to the target.