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View Full Version : How long will we wait for 11 lbs Tempest?



Glen44
02-12-2006, 09:50 AM
4.04patch? 4.05patch?

Philipscdrw
02-12-2006, 09:57 AM
How long will we wait for people to stop asking for more free stuff?

Glen44
02-12-2006, 10:00 AM
hehe, modifying ata isn't so hardwork compared to making a new model. I will buy the new patch if not free,np.

SeaFireLIV
02-12-2006, 10:19 AM
Is it really so important? Just how many variants of one single plane do we need. Far as I can tell there were at leats 33 variants. You really want them all? Do you realise that some variants were also a backwards step rather than forwards?

Brain32
02-12-2006, 10:27 AM
No new variant needed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif we already have the model which was most commonly runned at +11lbs boost, so only a minor FM change is required.
BTW I like the Tempest like it is now and I will not cry if it stays this way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

skabbe
02-12-2006, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Is it really so important? Just how many variants of one single plane do we need. Far as I can tell there were at leats 33 variants. You really want them all? Do you realise that some variants were also a backwards step rather than forwards?

stop talking...

11 lbs is the tempest! the 9 lbs its like bf-109 hispano. if we get 13lbs i will climb a tower.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-12-2006, 01:09 PM
Is the 13lbs boost version the one that Closterman named 'La Grand Charles'?

AustinPowers_
02-12-2006, 01:33 PM
Pierre Clostermann - Nothing was left undone to give the Tempest a maximum performance at medium and low altitudes. Special auxiliary tanks were designed even, with perspex connecting pipes, to fit under the wings. Quite extraordinary attention was paid to the rivetting, the joints and the surface polish. The result was a superb combat machine.
It had a thoroughbred look and, in spite of the big radiator which gave it an angry and wilful appearance, it was astonishingly slender. It was very heavy, all of seven tons. Thanks to its 2,400 h.p. engine it had a considerable margin of excess power and its acceleration was phenomenal. It was pretty tricky to fly, but its performance more than made up for it: at 3,000 feet, at economical cruising on one third power (950 h.p.) with two 45-gallon auxiliary tanks, 310 m.p.h. on the clock, i.e. a true air speed of 320 m.p.h.; at fast cruising speed, at half power (1,425 h.p.) without auxiliary tanks, 350 m.p.h. on the clock, i.e. a true air speed of nearly 400 m.p.h.; Maximum speed straight and level with + 13 boost and 3,850 revs.: 430 m.p.h. on the clock, i.e. a true airspeed of 440 m.p.h.
In emergencies you could over-boost it up to nearly 3,000 h.p. and 4,000 revs., and the speed went up to 460 m.p.h. In a dive the Tempest was the only aircraft to reach, without interfering with its handling qualities to any marked extent, subsonic speeds, i.e. 550-600 m.p.h.

anarchy52
02-12-2006, 01:50 PM
Closterman's books needs to be taken with a grain of salt when he's talking about numbers. I like Closterman's book, much more then some sterile "I destroyed the Luftwaffe all by myself" books like Johnie Johnson's one.

I wonder how long do we need to wait for Tempest that is tricky to fly? Currently with flaps down it outturns clean 109G6 in stallfight and recovers from accelerated stalls with full power on like it's an ultralight.

VW-IceFire
02-12-2006, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Is it really so important? Just how many variants of one single plane do we need. Far as I can tell there were at leats 33 variants. You really want them all? Do you realise that some variants were also a backwards step rather than forwards?
Where do you come up with 33 variants? I couldn't come up with that many modifications if I cound the prototypes, the significant variations between Mark V series I and II, the Mark II, the Mark VI, and the target tug.

The-Pizza-Man
02-12-2006, 03:16 PM
There's the Tempest I, topspeed of 466 mph in February 1943. We could have that, at least it actually flew, unlike some planes in the game.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/tempest-10.jpg

Viper2005_
02-12-2006, 03:29 PM
Perhaps it might be best to get the existing Tempest & Mosquito right before asking for further variants...

Try flying the Tempest by the book. Climb power is +7. Max continuous is +4.5; the latter can only be obtained with WEP at part throttle which results in worse performance than using ~0 boost without WEP.

As this is a flight simulation and not an arcade game I think that this is a pretty serious issue.

Then you've got the Mosquito which is supposed to have Merlin 21s (it has Merlin 21 performance) and yet shows +18 on the boost gauges...

This is simple, testable stuff. It's also quite important if you want to do things properly.

Given the correct maximum continuous power the Tempest might well become a much more deadly machine...

SeaFireLIV
02-12-2006, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Is it really so important? Just how many variants of one single plane do we need. Far as I can tell there were at leats 33 variants. You really want them all? Do you realise that some variants were also a backwards step rather than forwards?
Where do you come up with 33 variants? I couldn't come up with that many modifications if I cound the prototypes, the significant variations between Mark V series I and II, the Mark II, the Mark VI, and the target tug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, sorry. When I looked up my book of WWII aircraft i looked up Spitfires instead of tempest. DOH!

Sorry.

jasonbirder
02-12-2006, 03:36 PM
"How long will we wait for 11lbs Tempest?"

Is this some kind of Joke...We've had the Tempest for like 3 days...and already people want another version...Have they even had time to fly this one yet?
I'll come back and ask for more when i've flown this one for a while...chased down some FWs at low altitude...intercepted a few V1s, attacked a V1 site in Holland...strafed a few trains...tried to catch a 262 coming in to land...well I think you get the message http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 03:43 PM
what, all the tasks they used 11lb boost for http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

skabbe
02-12-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by jasonbirder:
"How long will we wait for 11lbs Tempest?"

Is this some kind of Joke...We've had the Tempest for like 3 days...and already people want another version...Have they even had time to fly this one yet?
I'll come back and ask for more when i've flown this one for a while...chased down some FWs at low altitude...intercepted a few V1s, attacked a V1 site in Holland...strafed a few trains...tried to catch a 262 coming in to land...well I think you get the message http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

as i said, Tempest 9lbs is like bf-109 hispano. not really but its weird that we got the 9lbs. though i love the tempest we got...

luftluuver
02-12-2006, 04:26 PM
Can you imagine all the http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif ing if it was the 11lb Tempest? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 04:36 PM
or the 3000hp, 4000rpm one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Viper2005_
02-12-2006, 05:11 PM
I must say that I find much of the more "scary" performance claimed for the Napier Sabre somewhat implausible.

AFAIK much of it was generated by extrapolation from Ricardo's single cylinder test engine rather than from type testing of a full scale engine.

Furthermore, I would point out that 4000 rpm might not be especially useful since the tip speed of the airscrew would likely be supersonic, or at least well in excess of its critical Mach number, such that much of the extra power would be wasted. At 3700 rpm the tip speed of the airscrew was equivalent to Mach 0.94 at the Full Throttle Height in FS gear with a +9 psi rating. See:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/tp.html

Whilst increasing the boost would reduce the FTH, it must not be forgotten that increasing the rpm of the supercharger would increase its pressure ratio roughly by the square of the rpm ratio (excluding shock losses) and this might be expected to increase the FTH considerably.

Of course as frictional losses vary as the square of rpm the actual increase in brake power might well be small in reality; it seems likely to me that a considerable proportion of the advantage associated with increased rpm might well come from increased exhaust thrust, as was shown from experience with the Rolls-Royce Crecy.

Anyway, I would suggest that the most productive line of attack would be to get the existing 3700/+9 Tempest right first, before asking for such entertaining ratings as 3700/+11 or even 3850/+13.

Personally I would advocate 3700/+11 as the limit:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/sabrecurve.jpg

At the end of the day however, WEP is great, but you can't use it all the time. Max continuous on the other hand you can use all the time, and thus it is this rating which controls your cruising speed in the combat area and thus, by extension, your vulnerability or otherwise to being bounced.

VW-IceFire
02-12-2006, 05:29 PM
I would agree that 3700/+11lbs would be the most sensible. My feeling would be to include it much like they have with the FW190D-9 in a 1944 and a 1945 variant. That way we have our bases covered.

I'm quite content and very pleased with the performance of the +9lb. Maybe a bit of work to do but its quite good already. My interest in the +11lb boost is mostly centered around my campaign that I'm now developing which takes place in March and April 1945 which means that you do face Bf109K-4's and FW190D-9 1945 variants amongst other targets...so having historical performance in the face of that sort of opposition would be handy although not entirely necessary as the numbers aren't all that off between the two.

LEXX_Luthor
02-12-2006, 05:38 PM
SeaFire::
Is it really so important?
If we got the 11lb or 50lb boost (whatever) Tempest, would they be asking for 9 pounds? hehe no

I'd say 9 pounds is more useful for simulating WW2 air combat. If they got their Bearcats, P-51H, and P-38K, and P-47N (or M, whatever), then any "historical" server would not have any German planes taking off. But they claim they know all this history (whatever). Yes, the early variants are far more important -- the most needed variants are about 1940-1941.

SeaFire, where you read Spitfire powered by the Sabre? Close this book....

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 06:29 PM
thought it was 3850rpm?

i dont know either way if the huge sabre numbers are real, but the other numbers are fairly low too, so dunno http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Buzzsaw-
02-12-2006, 07:15 PM
Salute

Hmmm... I smell a whiff of hypocrisy in the air...

Here we have someone asking when we might see the most common boost version of the Tempest, a version which flew starting in early summer 1944. And then he gets slammed????

Let's look at the facts:

1945 Aircraft in the game:

German

109K4 C3 (lots of questions as to whether this actually saw service, but never mind its here)

190D9 MW-50

D0-334 (flew in tiny numbers)

109Z (never flew in combat)

He-162 (flew in very small numbers)

TA-152H (flew in tiny numbers at very end)

Go-229 (never flew in combat)

Me-262A4 (oneoff experimental model)

Plus of course, all the German aircraft from late '44, such as the 109K4, 190D9, Me-262A1 and A2, etc.

Japanese

Ki-84-1c

Soviet

La-7 with 3 20mm is 1945 aircraft, even though it is listed as '44, it saw combat in '45.

Yak 3P

Yak-9UT


U.S.

P-80 (never saw combat, useless for historical scenarios)

British

None


It seemed like with this patch we might really get a '45 plane for the Western allies.

The Tempest predominantly ran at '11 boost and saw most of its combat in '45 at that rating. But instead, we get a +9 version, which was a distinct minority of the Tempests which flew.

The Mosquito had a '45 version, which was considerably faster than our 1942/43??? version.

There was a faint hope for the Spitfire XIV, which was actually a '44 aircraft, although it saw most of its +21 boost combat in '45.

Then of course, there is the +25 boost British used Mustang IV, which was a late P-51D model adn which clearly outfitted multiple RAF Squadrons in March '45. (equivalent to 81 inches MAP boost)

And of course, the U.S. operated late P-51D operated at 75 inches MAP, starting in July 1944.

Or the F4U-4, which operated in large numbers in the Pacific during late '44 and 1945.

We have none of these.

The latest amd most modern Western Allied plane available in IL-2 FB/PF is the P-47D 150 octane model, which dates from July of 1944, more than 9 months from the end of the war.

The Tempest we have is a May '44 aircraft.

The +25 boost Spitfire IX is an May '44 as well.

So I think the original poster has a point???


And yes, the +9 Tempest is a good plane. That's not the point. Put it up against its historical opponent, the Me-262A1, and it doesn't look so good.

This is last comment I have on this subject. The facts have been clearly proven, we should get a +11 Tempest in the next patch or addon.

Kwiatos
02-12-2006, 07:23 PM
Tempest Napier Sabre IIA (series1) - was built 100
(these we have in game)

Tempest Napier Sabre IIB/IIC (series2) - was built 705

BTW Tempest actually is one of the biggest wobbling plane in game. No stablility at all. It is like ponton on the sea.

These is funny that two the heaviest fighters in game ( Tempest and P-47) are unstable like no others.

VW-IceFire
02-12-2006, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
SeaFire:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is it really so important?
If we got the 11lb or 50lb boost (whatever) Tempest, would they be asking for 9 pounds? hehe no

I'd say 9 pounds is more useful for simulating WW2 air combat. If they got their Bearcats, P-51H, and P-38K, and P-47N (or M, whatever), then any "historical" server would not have any German planes taking off. But they claim they know all this history (whatever). Yes, the early variants are far more important -- the most needed variants are about 1940-1941.

SeaFire, where you read Spitfire powered by the Sabre? Close this book.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The +11lb boost was more common across all of the versions. Thats why...

LEXX_Luthor
02-12-2006, 08:47 PM
SeaFire::
The +11lb boost was more common across all of the versions. Thats why...
I see now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

*bump* for 11 pounds of boost!!

luftluuver
02-12-2006, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
I must say that I find much of the more "scary" performance claimed for the Napier Sabre somewhat implausible.

AFAIK much of it was generated by extrapolation from Ricardo's single cylinder test engine rather than from type testing of a full scale engine.

Furthermore, I would point out that 4000 rpm might not be especially useful since the tip speed of the airscrew would likely be supersonic, or at least well in excess of its critical Mach number, such that much of the extra power would be wasted. At 3700 rpm the tip speed of the airscrew was equivalent to Mach 0.94 at the Full Throttle Height in FS gear with a +9 psi rating. See:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/tp.html

Whilst increasing the boost would reduce the FTH, it must not be forgotten that increasing the rpm of the supercharger would increase its pressure ratio roughly by the square of the rpm ratio (excluding shock losses) and this might be expected to increase the FTH considerably.

Of course as frictional losses vary as the square of rpm the actual increase in brake power might well be small in reality; it seems likely to me that a considerable proportion of the advantage associated with increased rpm might well come from increased exhaust thrust, as was shown from experience with the Rolls-Royce Crecy.

Anyway, I would suggest that the most productive line of attack would be to get the existing 3700/+9 Tempest right first, before asking for such entertaining ratings as 3700/+11 or even 3850/+13.

The Sabre was bench tested at those high hp numbers.

Ever hear of prop reduction gear boxes, supercharger gear ratios, more prop blades, fatter blades?

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 03:46 AM
Yes, but the point is that the engine and its installation were designed around 3700 rpm operations. Making new reduction gearboxes is not a trivial matter by any stretch of the imagination.

And yes, you can modify the airscrew, but that implies increased solidity and disk loading, both of which inevitably reduce efficiency, especially as you'd almost certainly have to reduce its diameter to control tip Mach number in the face of operations at increased rpm.

This also tends to be expensive as you'll end up scrapping a load of perfectly good airscrews. Which is why 3700 rpm was the norm, even if you could run the engine at 4000 rpm; once the design was frozen at 3700 (probably in 1940 or so given the need to get the engine flying in the Typhoon), upping the revs would have had serious <span class="ev_code_RED">consequences</span> .

Upping the boost on the other hand simply means that the CSU will command a higher blade angle from the airscrew. This generally doesn't matter too much unless you're going very slowly, in which case it will stall the airscrew, and you may find that in that case reduced boost actually gives increased thrust. Which is why most British engine development was based upon ever higher boost pressures.

BTW Buzzsaw, let's look at those aeroplanes you list shall we?



German

109K4 C3 (lots of questions as to whether this actually saw service, but never mind its here)

190D9 MW-50

D0-33<span class="ev_code_RED">5</span> (flew in tiny numbers)

109Z (never flew in combat)

He-162 (flew in very small numbers)

TA-152H (flew in tiny numbers at very end)

Go-229 (never flew in combat)

Me-262A<span class="ev_code_RED">1a/U</span>4 (oneoff experimental model)

The Do-335 is actually a high speed bomber. It's got a bomb bay and will carry an SC1000 if you ask it nicely.

The U4 version of the 262 is basically useless in combat against anything other than heavy bombers or tanks due to its low rate of fire.

Anyway, other than the Bf-190 and the Fw-190 the rest are banned from pretty much every server on the 'net.

The same applies to the Ki84c AFAIK.

This does not apply in quite the same way to late-war allied aircraft with the exception of the YP-80.

As such your argument is perhaps a little weak.

Furthermore it is worth pointing out that by 1945 the Luftwaffe was only putting up about 1/6th as many sorties as the Western Allies, which means that air combat became rather rare and very one-sided.

Most people would find this rather boring, especially online.

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Tempest right first, before asking for such entertaining ratings as 3700/+11 or even 3850/+13.

Personally I would advocate 3700/+11 as the limit

Why? 3850 was the 11lbs Sabre IIB's max revs. Why 3700/+11 limit? Why not actually have a IIB @ 3850 rpm which is a far more realistic representation of a 11lbs Tempest circa 1945.

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 04:19 AM
Well that's fair enough given

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/ads-tempestv-2.jpg

But that's a different engine. Does it have a different reduction gear ratio?

If we're just uprating the existing Sabre IIa as fitted to the Tempest V in game then 3700/+11 would be more realistic as per:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/sabrecurve.jpg

alert_1
02-13-2006, 04:28 AM
If anyone has a need for speed there si always Me262, 1400 produced, in service from June '44. We have it in the game for some time, dont we?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

luftluuver
02-13-2006, 04:39 AM
Viper, the Griffon Spits went to 5 blades from 4 blades and had contra-rotating props. They also used different gear ratios, front and back. The Sabre E.122 also had contra props developed for it. This engine put out 3350hp @ 3850rpm @ SL.

The Hawker Fury, in its naval form as the Sea Fury, is a basically a Tempest with a radial, went from 4 blades to 5 blades.

The Sabre III used in the Firebrand was rated at 4000rpm. The Sabre IV in the Tempest I was rated at 4000rpm.

From the Sabre IIB on, except for the above, were all rated at 3850rpm.

robban75
02-13-2006, 04:44 AM
Indeed, an +11lb Tempest is needed, no doubt! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 04:46 AM
Actually the first Griffon Spitfires (Mk IV and Mk XII) retained 4 bladed airscrews. After the PR.IV entered production the original Mk IV was re-designated the Mk. XX.

The later Griffon Spitfires with 5 bladed airscrews and contra-rotating airscrews were built that way from the outset rather than modded. In fact if you check carefully you'll find that Griffons capable of swinging contra-rotating airscrews have different Mark numbers from those which simply swung a conventional airscrew.

As I said earlier, reduction gearboxes are complicated things.

*edit*

After some swift research it appears that the Fury, when powered by the Centaurus XII had a four bladed airscrew, and when powered by the Centaurus XV had a five bladed airscrew.

Glen44
02-13-2006, 05:11 AM
Anyway, other than the Bf-190 and the Fw-190 the rest are banned from pretty much every server on the 'net.

The same applies to the Ki84c AFAIK.

This does not apply in quite the same way to late-war allied aircraft with the exception of the YP-80.

As such your argument is perhaps a little weak.

Furthermore it is worth pointing out that by 1945 the Luftwaffe was only putting up about 1/6th as many sorties as the Western Allies, which means that air combat became rather rare and very one-sided.

Most people would find this rather boring, especially online.

La7 is also usually banned in some servers.
Why some late planes get banned in some dogfight servers? Because "game balance" will be destroyed.That is easy to understand.

However,Il2 is NOT just dogfight game , historic missions are also critical component which demands correct versions of all kinds of places.

Furthermore, those banned super planes in dogfight servers demonstrate some waste of Oleg's hardwork. Late Blue planes get banned because of the lack of super red planes. Therefore Luftwaffer should welcome SpitXIV 11lbs Tempest indeed.Administrators of DOGFIGHT servers can balance the game in spit of whatever Oleg have created. Even if 11lbs tempest get banned for enough reason, then majority of players will accept the decision, I believe.

And the last reason, how many super German planes and weapons havn't been made in il2 till now? ME262 He162 Go229 Me163 Do335 Ta152 109K4 C3 V1 missle.....You want to say 190d12/13 which was only delivered for dozens while NONE of late British planes come out in this game yet? Then this Il2 can be called "Il2 german version".

We just want ONE 44late British Plane, it's not fulsome because we don't cry for Spitfire VI XII XIV XVI XXI Spiteful Seafang Typhoon Fury Sea Fury Barracuda swordfish ........And I have enough patient to wait.

Alex_Voicu
02-13-2006, 05:13 AM
Mk V Tempests were fitted with 2 different propellers; early MkV had a DeHavilland Hydromatic propeller wich was replaced with a Rotol propeller on late aircraft.

F/O Ronald Dennis recounted:

"All our machines were fitted with Rotol airscrews when the maximum rpm were increased to 3,850 from 3,700 and boost to +13 from +11, as the DeHaviland airscrew could not absorb the added power and more than once shed a blade, with somewhat detrimental effects on the engine! "

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 05:18 AM
Both the Rotol and Dh airscrews for the Tempest V had four blades.

As for the D-13 etc glen, it would certainly be nice to play with, but I think that as you say online it all comes down to game balance...

Personally I would welcome the Spitfire XIV and an uprated Tempest to the fold, <span class="ev_code_RED">but I think that it's important to get them right.</span>

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Well that's fair enough given

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/ads-tempestv-2.jpg

But that's a different engine. Does it have a different reduction gear ratio?


I think the reduction gear is one of the changes between the IIA and IIB. The IIB seems to make the most power at 3000ft and the IIA at 6000ft in the first stage and the 2nd stage was something like 17k for the IIB and 18.5k for the IIA.

luftluuver
02-13-2006, 05:51 AM
Actually the first Griffon Spitfires (Mk IV and Mk XII) retained 4 bladed airscrews. After the PR.IV entered production the original Mk IV was re-designated the Mk. XX. Is not that what I said? "the Griffon Spits went to 5 blades from 4 blades"

The PR IV used Merlin 45/46s and went into production as PR IVs with some 229 produced. I have never come across a Spitfire MK XX(20) designation except for the planned production, as in cancelled, of the F MkIV.

Viper, if you check you will find that the Mk21 had both standard and contra props.

The MK XIV used 5 blades. The Griffon in the XIV could have a .451(61) or .4423(85) prop reduction. The MK XII could have a Griffon with either a .451 or .51 prop reduction.

Even the Merlin had different prop and sc ratios.

What does the Spit MK number have to do with anything?

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 06:03 AM
My point is that a different set of reduction gear ratios generally resulted in a different engine mark number.

Ditto contra rotating airscrews (eg Griffon 61 = 5 bladed airscrew, Griffon 85 = 6 bladed contra-rotating airscrew), and often also ditto adding blades to the airscrew.

These changes are not trivial.

I mentioned the Mk XX designation simply in order to avoid confusion with the PR.IV which was of course a horse of an entirely different colour...

The Mk IV and the Mk XII spent their entire (short) lives with 4 bladed airscrews. Nobody turned up half way through with a mod kit to add another blade.

All of which backs up the reasoning behind the original point I was making, namely that the current Tempest with a Sabre IIa could only be uprated to 3700/+11 rather than the 3850/+11 available with the IIb or indeed the 3850/+13 available to the brave; to do that we need an engine change.

OD_79
02-13-2006, 06:07 AM
Tell you what I'd like changing on the Tempest! The ability to see more than 90 degrees either side of you, along with the gunsight made visible, I know people don't like to be shot down by 4 20mm Hispano's but it's a fact of life when you get into a fight with a Tempest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. The engine power boost would be a bonus.
All this stuff about reduction gears, blah blah blah is little off topic don't you think!? It would just be nice to get some decent British planes into the sim, like the 25lb boost Spit, there is a distinct lack of late war Allied aircraft in this game/sim. We have the American fighters, now we need the later Spits (MkXIV) and the Tempests properly engined, Typhoon...well not exactly late war but still nice to have, lets see the RAF properly represented not just by Spitfires!

OD.

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 06:27 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">If you're going to do a job, you might as well do it properly.</span>

Then you might find (for example) that you can actually run +4.5 psi max continuous without overheating, allowing you to cruise considerably faster in the combat area; at present 110% without WEP only gives about +2.5 and as a result the aircraft is a bit slow...

The devil is in the details; and actually you might be surprised to discover that getting those details right is likely to give the red team, and the RAF in particular, rather more performance than it takes away.

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:

All of which backs up the reasoning behind the original point I was making, namely that the current Tempest with a Sabre IIa could only be uprated to 3700/+11 rather than the 3850/+11 available with the IIb or indeed the 3850/+13 available to the brave; to do that we need an engine change.

And? Converting the IIA to the IIB was simple, it wasn't a totally different engine, just a few parts were changed out. Forget the 13lbs boost because it requires a different 3D model for the prop but the IIB powered Tempest V is hardly a complete reworking and requires no model changes, just some slightly different performance characteristics.

Viper2005_
02-13-2006, 06:55 AM
If the reduction ratios are different then it may well not be a trivial change in the game, depending upon the modelling approach used in the game since the airscrew tip mach number will be different etc etc.

If the ratios are the same then great; call it a IIb and by all means rate it at 3850/+11 in game since this won't have any impact upon the accuracy of the FM.

p1ngu666
02-13-2006, 10:31 AM
id rather have 3850+ /11lb and a 13lb if possible aswell

so we get

tempest 9lb as currently ingame

tempest 11lbs with 3850rpm

uberhax tempest with 13lbs and 3850rpm or whatever.

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 10:42 AM
Uberhax? You been hanging around with Fish too much?

p1ngu666
02-13-2006, 11:11 AM
yeah, probably http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

there where others who said that tho, before the fish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Brain32
02-13-2006, 11:24 AM
Actually all I want is a standard regular +11lbs, and maybe(if not too much to ask) revision of the rear view...
+13lbs is overkill, we would overshoot more than actually hit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

skabbe
02-13-2006, 03:45 PM
just to be annoying, i want the Tempest III aswell

p1ngu666
02-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Actually all I want is a standard regular +11lbs, and maybe(if not too much to ask) revision of the rear view...
+13lbs is overkill, we would overshoot more than actually hit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

with 13lb boost, luftwaffles will wonder why ppl are doing mars attack on teh radiO

AC.... AC..... AC...

ofcourse, there trying to say ACHTUNG TEMPEST!!!111

but its all over by the C http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

crazyivan1970
02-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Will be a while before anything new is even considered. That would be my guess.

VW-IceFire
02-13-2006, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Will be a while before anything new is even considered. That would be my guess.
Probably true. I imagine what we folks should do is gather the necessary and important data into some sort of package and be ready so that if Oleg wants to go this route, and we may send a friendly reminder at some point, we'll have the necessary information.

To the Hawker Haven forum! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Glen44
05-01-2006, 11:33 PM
11lbs Tempest topic is forbidden in this forum?
9lbs Tempest in game is inferior to the historical ones according to my own test.
What a pity!

WOLFMondo
05-02-2006, 03:31 AM
Its not inferior, in some aspects its superior (if you turn of the overheat) but its simply wrong in regards to flying according the Tempest V pilots manual. You can't operate the engine and the trim according to it.

HellToupee
05-02-2006, 04:35 AM
if only the pilots neck operated like rl worse than overheat is the rear view tho effects all planes. However with overheat way it is with 9lbs could we handle the 11lbs.

HotelBushranger
05-02-2006, 05:05 AM
Guys, I think we've pushed Oleg a bit too far demanding an 11lb Tempest. Yes I know, in hindsight it may have been better to put such and such a plane in as opposed to this one. But thats the point. That's hindsight. Back in the day, everyone was moaning for a 109K-4, then 190D, etc etc etc, and then they grade him and insult him because it doesn't live up to their expectations. Then bugger off and start raving and ranting that they need this aircraft now that the excitement about the other plane has died down. Always keep in mind BoB is Olegs main project now, and any additional stuff we get is pretty much IMO a testament to his hard work, dedication, and selflessness.

I think we just need to take a step back, get outside, take a deep breath, and lay off the forum for a coupla days. Just give the big O a break once in a while, the man deserves it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MrMoonlight
05-02-2006, 05:29 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

HotelBushranger
05-02-2006, 05:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Brain32
05-02-2006, 07:02 AM
Guys, I think we've pushed Oleg a bit too far demanding an 11lb Tempest.
Really? 2 threads with this as a topic and sporadic wish expression. Now although I completly agree with:

Always keep in mind BoB is Olegs main project now, and any additional stuff we get is pretty much IMO a testament to his hard work, dedication, and selflessness.
Look at the history of adding higher boost ratings in IL2, no model change, just remember v403 109K4C3 and Spit25 it doesent seem so demanding, besides we have an late war planes add-on coming soon so it can even fit the thematics of it. We are merely expressing our wishes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
05-02-2006, 07:55 AM
the last post was 2 and a half months ago? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mossie merlin 25 at 18lb

tempest 11lb

then patch after, 25lb boost mossie and 13lb boost tempest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WOLFMondo
05-02-2006, 08:14 AM
I agree Hotelbushranger, to a point but I would like to see one of my favorite planes and one of the real forgotten aircraft of WW2 portraid as it should be, with the corrections so I can fly it by the manual, be it an SabreIIA 9 or llbs or SabreIIB @ 11lbs.

The 11lbs Sabre IIB Tempest requires no extra 3D modelling, it probably doesn't require much programming but does require some testing to get it right. I'm unsure who tested it in the official beta but they should have at least asked a few who have read the Tempest pilots manual and data on the plane itself.

DIRTY-MAC
05-02-2006, 04:37 PM
Someone should contact oleg regarding it, and collect some info on the +11 or even +13

the only thing different with the +13 is the prop blades, Alex Voicu the modeler said it was easy to change, but if you want it, you got to give them some material to bakup its performance
and CONTACT oleg

Brain32
05-02-2006, 05:54 PM
11lbs info you can find, not easy but you can, but 13lbs is mentioned ALMOST as rare as 1.98ATA 109, there is no doubt of it's existence, and all but info... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Besides anything involving a model change is I think too optimistic to expect(and IMO it would be an overkill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)
Anyway 11lbs boost and some engine revision(overheat/power at lower throtthle setting/torque) should make it MUCH closer to what it was...

Glen44
05-02-2006, 10:57 PM
High boost gives rise to poor high altitute performance. 13lbs? ,perhaps was a rubbish above 5000m.

In war clouds, those deck runners are d9s because 11lbs tempest is absent. 11lbs Tempest is just red team's need to be the opponent of D9 below 6000m since we have no spit XIV XXI.

Brain32
05-03-2006, 03:15 AM
Higher boost will not bring better higher alt performance, top speed at alt(19000ft) is 436mph for 11lbs boost and for 9lbs boost respectively. Where boost will come in handy is low alt(speed, climb, acceleration). Currently the problem with the Tempest is in it's overheat, for example Tempest pilot manual states 3700rpm at +9lbs boost 5mins combat limit with oil temperature of 95 degrees Celsius. I tried QMB Crimea fresh plane from an airstart firewall the throthle and after only about 2mins you get the overheat message just at about you hit max SL speed(600km/h) with oil temperature of 120 degrees Celsius...

WOLFMondo
05-03-2006, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Someone should contact oleg regarding it, and collect some info on the +11 or even +13

the only thing different with the +13 is the prop blades, Alex Voicu the modeler said it was easy to change, but if you want it, you got to give them some material to bakup its performance
and CONTACT oleg

Documents exsist in the UK national archives. As I've said on other forums and other posts. If someone is willing to do the research to find them in the national archives, which can be done online, I will go to London and get copies of the documents.


Originally posted by Brain32:
Higher boost will not bring better higher alt performance, top speed at alt(19000ft) is 436mph for 11lbs boost and for 9lbs boost respectively.

The higher boost will have some impact at 5000m. The Sabres problem was lack of a good supercharger for above 20,000ft, English Electric cancelled the supercharger project however the Sabre VA produced similar power to a 13lbs boosted SabreIIB and the Tempest V prototype with the Sabre VA set an unofficial world speed record when it was first tested of 475mph@18,000ft, with a full operational load out.

HellToupee
05-03-2006, 03:42 AM
wasnt that a model with rads buried in the wings like the mossie

They could throw a 13lbs and 11lbs into the 1946 addo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
05-03-2006, 04:28 AM
The first V prototype was a Typhoon with new wings but the same radiator. The first Tempest I prototype had the Sabre IV and wing radiators which did 466mph but the engine was immature and radiators susceptable to damage easily. Theres always the annular radiator used on an experimental V. Although reports said it could take days to work out any problems with it in the field. It looked damn cool though!

Really the ultimate Tempest was the MkII according to Sydney Camm but I've seen interviews with Tempest pilots who say they prefer the V.

Brain32
05-03-2006, 04:39 AM
Really the ultimate Tempest was the MkII according to Sydney Camm but I've seen interviews with Tempest pilots who say they prefer the V.
Also IMO MkV looks waaaaay cooler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BTW I'm doing a research in national archives, I'll post "the first wave" in CWOS now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
05-03-2006, 04:45 AM
Cool! I'm free this Saturday. *hint*.

hotspace
05-03-2006, 09:12 AM
Shame thats Gibbage's Spit F.22 didn't make it into PF. Would of sold the missus for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Nubarus
05-03-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by HotSpace:
Shame thats Gibbage's Spit F.22 didn't make it into PF. Would of sold the missus for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Gibbage wasn't working on the Spit 22.
I forgot his name but it was some English guy.

Nubarus
05-03-2006, 12:32 PM
I remember now, his addy was Biggs.

DIRTY-MAC
05-03-2006, 05:07 PM
BTW I'm doing a research in national archives, I'll post "the first wave" in CWOS now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/QUOTE]


whats CWOS ?

VW-IceFire
05-03-2006, 06:15 PM
If you folks want to participate in gathering data about the Tempest for submission I would suggest heading over to here:

http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=F...&file=viewforum&f=19 (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=19)

My thoughts and feelings are that the Tempest +11lb Sabre IIB is a perfectly acceptable request for a MOD. Most of the fighting done by Tempests against Luftwaffe fighters was accomplished in aircraft of this configuration. It requires no modification of the current model (although taking the D-Day stripes off might be handy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

The Sabre IIC +13lb is a rare bird indeed. Probably slightly less rare than one of those Bf109K-4 C3 types but close. Personally I don't think we should ask for this one as it requires geometry changes to the model as the Rotol propeller is different in shape.

arrow80
05-04-2006, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
If you folks want to participate in gathering data about the Tempest for submission I would suggest heading over to here:

http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=F...&file=viewforum&f=19 (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=19)

My thoughts and feelings are that the Tempest +11lb Sabre IIB is a perfectly acceptable request for a MOD. Most of the fighting done by Tempests against Luftwaffe fighters was accomplished in aircraft of this configuration. It requires no modification of the current model (although taking the D-Day stripes off might be handy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

The Sabre IIC +13lb is a rare bird indeed. Probably slightly less rare than one of those Bf109K-4 C3 types but close. Personally I don't think we should ask for this one as it requires geometry changes to the model as the Rotol propeller is different in shape.

I absolutely agree!

DIRTY-MAC
05-04-2006, 03:44 AM
Heres what Alex said about a +13:

Posted Wed November 23 2005 10:46

The Rotol prop had different blade tips. The DeHavilland Hydromatic propeller shows up in most images of mk V series II and even mk VI aircraft.

http://alexvoicu.domeniuweb.ro/prop.jpg

I can change the blade tips very quickly, but i doubt the Maddox team has time for this.
Anyway, I've never seen any real test flight results for a +13 boost Tempest. Estimated values won't be accepted as reliable performance data.

hotspace
05-04-2006, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by Nubarus:
I remember now, his addy was Biggs.

Ahhhh, I was close http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

Thanks for the correct m8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DuxCorvan
05-04-2006, 08:29 AM
Bah, more late war uberstuff. If it were for some guys, it would look as WW2 began in February 1945... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

WOLFMondo
05-04-2006, 08:52 AM
For some maybe but its the version that saw service in large numbers unlike the extremely rare batch 1 series II variant we havehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. An 11lbs SabreIIB Tempest V Series II was the norm for 2nd TAF units. Its not like it was some barely flew/didn't have fuel/totally unreliable to it was shelved/uber rarity since it was, well, normal.

I'd happily have a Typhoon from 1942 but thats not an option. Next best thing is the Tempest.

Brain32
05-04-2006, 09:11 AM
Yes it's not our fault our favourite plane is a late war plane by default http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

danjama
05-04-2006, 09:43 AM
Id sooner want a Spitmk14 than a Tempest with 11+boost. And its well known that there has been a mk14 model for a long time, it needs to be put in game!!!!!

Brain32
05-04-2006, 10:15 AM
We have 16 different versions of Spitfire NOW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif all uber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif and only one porked version of Tempest

VW-IceFire
05-04-2006, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Bah, more late war uberstuff. If it were for some guys, it would look as WW2 began in February 1945... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
The Tempest is by its very definition a late war uber plane. If your indifferent about the topic maybe you shouldn't be commenting on it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Most of us who love the Tempest would also be quite happy chugging along in a accident prone Typhoon Mark IB circa 1942 chasing down unsuspecting FW190A-4s.

danjama
05-04-2006, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
We have 16 different versions of Spitfire NOW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif all uber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif and only one porked version of Tempest

16? are u sure? And even so, we dont have a late44/45 model, the XIV would fill the GAP!!!!

I cant play game rite now so off the top of my head this is the list -

My amended list -

SpitmkVb
SpitMkVb LF
SpitMkVb CW
SpitMkVc(2 cannon)
SpitMkVc(4 cannon)
SpitMkVIII
SpitMkVIII CW
SpitMkIXc 1943
SpitMkIXc CW
SpitMkIXe LF
SpitMkIXe HF
SpitMkIXe CW
SpitMkIX HF 1944
SpitMkIX 1944 25+lb
Seafire L
Seafire F

Is there any i missed caus thats clearly not 16?

shinden1974
05-04-2006, 05:29 PM
1. spit Vb
2. spit Vb CW
3. spit Vb LF
4. spit Vb LF CW
5. spit Vc 2 cannon
6. spit Vc 4 cannon
7. spit VIII
8. spit VIII CW
9. spit LF IXc
10. spit IXc CW
11. spit IXe
12. spit IXe CW
13. spit HF IXe
14. spit IXc 25 lbs
15. Seafire L
16. Seafire F

16!

danjama
05-04-2006, 05:35 PM
Ok, so theres 16 if your telling the truth with your list, how will one more, contempory Spitfire hurt? Theres already a model for it!!!

How many 109's are there anyways?

4 emils
109F2
109F4
109G2
109G6
109G6/as
109G6late
109G10
109G14
109K4
109K4 1.98ata

Thats 14 109's, and one of them was very rare.

Anyway, back on topic, i definately agree a Tempest11+ would be nice!!

shinden1974
05-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
Ok, so theres 16 if your telling the truth with your list, how will one more, contempory Spitfire hurt? Theres already a model for it!!!

How many 109's are there anyways?

4 emils
109F2
109F4
109G2
109G6
109G6/as
109G6late
109G10
109G14
109K4
109K4 1.98ata

Thats 14 109's, and one of them was very rare.

BTW there is no MkV with clipped wings.

Dunno...I'm on your side. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dude...there's a spit Vb CW...you're missing a plane!!!

IMAO...we should ask for 'boost' slider so everybody can get their favorite 'boost' plane.

"I was having a hard time with my P-11...until the boost slider...now I fly around killing everything in sight in my +80 boost 300 octane P-11"

Right now I'm searching furiously for any shred of evidence of a boost N1K2-J...

VW-IceFire
05-04-2006, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by shinden1974:
1. spit Vb
2. spit Vb CW
3. spit Vb LF
4. spit Vb LF CW
5. spit Vc 2 cannon
6. spit Vc 4 cannon
7. spit VIII
8. spit VIII CW
9. spit LF IXc
10. spit IXc CW
11. spit IXe
12. spit IXe CW
13. spit HF IXe
14. spit IXc 25 lbs
15. Seafire L
16. Seafire F

16!
If we discount subtle engine modifications....

1) Spitfire Vb
2) Spitfire Vc 2 cannon
3) Spitfire Vc 4 cannon
4) Spitfire VIII
5) Spitfire IXc
6) Spitfire IXe

Each of those is distinct in terms of airframe. The rest of the modifications are purely engine tweaks...either with different gear ratios, a changed impeller, a clipped set of wings, and so forth.

Having a clipped wing for every variant nearly doubles the Spitfires on the list....even if I add engine modifications you don't come up with 16 Spitfires.

With the 109s as a point of comparison or even the FW190s we have a large variety of types from early to late war. You can start at the FW190A-4 and go all the way to the Ta-152H. Thats the breadth of the FW190s involvement in WWII. With the 109 the representation is the same...you have the early war Bf109E-4 (several sublte versions I might add), mid war G-6's and late war G-10s and K-4s. Thats the full breadth of the war. Spitfires on the other hand represent a much narower viewpoint (although well covered) that starts at 1942 and goes to 1944. The Spitfire XIV adds something unique to the lineup like the Bf109K-4 does (vs say stopping at the G-10).

Its a bigger, heavier, faster, less pilot friendly Spitfire. It'd be interesting to fly.

danjama
05-04-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shinden1974:
1. spit Vb
2. spit Vb CW
3. spit Vb LF
4. spit Vb LF CW
5. spit Vc 2 cannon
6. spit Vc 4 cannon
7. spit VIII
8. spit VIII CW
9. spit LF IXc
10. spit IXc CW
11. spit IXe
12. spit IXe CW
13. spit HF IXe
14. spit IXc 25 lbs
15. Seafire L
16. Seafire F

16!
If we discount subtle engine modifications....

1) Spitfire Vb
2) Spitfire Vc 2 cannon
3) Spitfire Vc 4 cannon
4) Spitfire VIII
5) Spitfire IXc
6) Spitfire IXe

Each of those is distinct in terms of airframe. The rest of the modifications are purely engine tweaks...either with different gear ratios, a changed impeller, a clipped set of wings, and so forth.

Having a clipped wing for every variant nearly doubles the Spitfires on the list....even if I add engine modifications you don't come up with 16 Spitfires.

With the 109s as a point of comparison or even the FW190s we have a large variety of types from early to late war. You can start at the FW190A-4 and go all the way to the Ta-152H. Thats the breadth of the FW190s involvement in WWII. With the 109 the representation is the same...you have the early war Bf109E-4 (several sublte versions I might add), mid war G-6's and late war G-10s and K-4s. Thats the full breadth of the war. Spitfires on the other hand represent a much narower viewpoint (although well covered) that starts at 1942 and goes to 1944. The Spitfire XIV adds something unique to the lineup like the Bf109K-4 does (vs say stopping at the G-10).

Its a bigger, heavier, faster, less pilot friendly Spitfire. It'd be interesting to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ditto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CUJO_1970
05-04-2006, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
You can start at the FW190A-4 and go all the way to the Ta-152H. Thats the breadth of the FW190s involvement in WWII.


It's not really.

We need FW190A-2/3 and fully rated A-4s.

We don't really have specialist FW190G/ early F ground attack varients, with unique engine setups. We really just have derated A-4s, and A-5s that can carry bombs as sort of stand-ins.

We don't have the FW190A-7 for late '43/early '44 to bridge the gap between the A-6 and the A-8.

We don't have the FW190F-9 Panzerblitz.

And we are missing a very large portion of the loadout options for the FWs - hell the A-8/A-9 and Dora don't even have droptanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ImpStarDuece
05-04-2006, 07:30 PM
Thats alright, we also don't have any bomb load-outs for the Mk V and VIII Spitfires.

I'm flying a 1944 DCG Normandy campaign at the moment and using the Seafire L. Mk III to substitute for a fighter bomber Spitfire LF. Vc
The only major problems are the 4 bladed prop and the lack of clipped wings.

p1ngu666
05-04-2006, 07:33 PM
A7 just had different radio?

panzerblitz would be great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Brain32
05-04-2006, 07:36 PM
Id sooner want a Spitmk14 than a Tempest with 11+boost.
Never say sooner than Tempest in front of me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

La7_brook
05-04-2006, 08:16 PM
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made

danjama
05-04-2006, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made

Isnt that what the in-game G6/AS represents, but its just labelled wrong? I could have this mixed up, im terrible with numbers....

VW-IceFire
05-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made
We've already got it...look for the Bf109G-6A/S. Its mislabled. Its actually a G-14A/S.

VW-IceFire
05-04-2006, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
You can start at the FW190A-4 and go all the way to the Ta-152H. Thats the breadth of the FW190s involvement in WWII.


It's not really.

We need FW190A-2/3 and fully rated A-4s.

We don't really have specialist FW190G/ early F ground attack varients, with unique engine setups. We really just have derated A-4s, and A-5s that can carry bombs as sort of stand-ins.

We don't have the FW190A-7 for late '43/early '44 to bridge the gap between the A-6 and the A-8.

We don't have the FW190F-9 Panzerblitz.

And we are missing a very large portion of the loadout options for the FWs - hell the A-8/A-9 and Dora don't even have droptanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The FW190A-7 is basically an A-8. The differences are barely worth mentioning. The A-8 superceeded the A-7 on the production line very quickly. The A-4 and A-5 accurately represent the F models as they are identical (look for the factor modified bomber variants in the loadout options) and differ only in the actual number used to identify them. The F-8 is different as it added cowl armor and that is represented. The G models had extra fuel tanks...longer range. Probably not worth mentioning as we have few maps that would require that sort of range. I agree on having loadouts for the D-9 and getting a F-9 with Panzerblitz and I have said so in the past...

But I think you've missed my point. We have a good breadth of FW190 variants from 1942 through to 1945. From the start of the major frontline operations to the end of the major frontline operations including the final and rare variant. Not to say that some aren't missing....and then of course I could say the same about the Spitfire. The high altitude Mark VI, the early Griffon version the Mark XII, the very late war and limited service Mark XVIII, and so on and so forth. But of importance would be the XIV as it was the major wartime production variant of the Spitfire with a Griffon engine. Everything else is a limited run and specialized Spitfire model.

danjama
05-04-2006, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made
We've already got it...look for the Bf109G-6A/S. Its mislabled. Its actually a G-14A/S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow i was right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

La7_brook
05-04-2006, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made
We've already got it...look for the Bf109G-6A/S. Its mislabled. Its actually a G-14A/S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> well srry we realy need g6as then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wow i was right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

La7_brook
05-04-2006, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:
id like 109 g14AS in game were over 1000 made
We've already got it...look for the Bf109G-6A/S. Its mislabled. Its actually a G-14A/S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> well srry we realy need g6as then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wow i was right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE> so what do we HAVE ? g6as was made from the old g6 and g14as came from g14 / so they must have diff FM ?

WOLFMondo
05-05-2006, 02:28 AM
This ain't a Spitfire thread, certainly isn't an FW190 thread (although I do have your sympathieshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and get out of here with the FB109 rubbish.

Its a Tempest thread. Lets not ruin it.

La7_brook
05-05-2006, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
This ain't a Spitfire thread, certainly isn't an FW190 thread (although I do have your sympathieshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and get out of here with the FB109 rubbish.

Its a Tempest thread. Lets not ruin it. well i want new super plane too pussmondo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

WOLFMondo
05-05-2006, 03:54 AM
Start another thread then :P

An 11lbs Tempest was a standard factory built aircraft with the IIA's (batch 1 and 2) being modified in winter 1944 to IIB standard. Its not like a 1.98 ata 109 or a Ta152 or even a P47m. Its not uber, its normal :P

A true uber Tempest which isn't be asked for is the 13lbs Rotol prop Tempest V e.g. 'Le Grande Charles'.

Brain32
05-05-2006, 04:12 AM
Yes don't scare away Oleg with Spits,109's etc... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Megile_
05-05-2006, 04:35 AM
1.42 ATA for FW-190A4!!!!!!!!!!!



woops, wrong thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

11 lbs for Tempest.... the REAL contemporary of the A9, D9 and G10/K4

Kurfurst__
05-05-2006, 05:03 AM
We definietely need a 2,3ata 109K. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stathem
05-05-2006, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
We definietely need a 2,3ata 109K. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Why? you need to fry hamburgers on the way to the combat zone?

Kurfurst__
05-05-2006, 05:18 AM
No, it's for those superheated MK 108 slugs coming in next patch! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
05-05-2006, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
No, it's for those superheated MK 108 slugs coming in next patch! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Do they glow so brightly that they blind pilots that see them? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DIRTY-MAC
05-05-2006, 06:46 AM
Hmmmm something tells me this thread is dead.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

WOLFMondo
05-05-2006, 07:18 AM
Yeah. Doesn't matter. As long as the relevent stuff is posted on the hawker haven forum we can send out findings to Oleg.

p1ngu666
05-05-2006, 12:14 PM
the sound of a 13lb and 4000rpm tempest would make it worthwhile http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

109 is a sausage plane, so ud fry frankfurters on the way to combat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anasteksi
05-05-2006, 02:51 PM
FOREVER! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

VW-IceFire
05-05-2006, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Hmmmm something tells me this thread is dead.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
Doesn't make any different. We kindly instructed to hold off on presenting the data regarding a +11lb boost Tempest until the next free patch was due and then we'd go into it in a reasonable and respectable way.

That means that we're not going to rant endlessly on the Ubisoft forums. We're going to go off into our own little corner, get the requisite information, and send it in one package presented as cleanly and nicely to Oleg as possible.

DIRTY-MAC
05-05-2006, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Hmmmm something tells me this thread is dead.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
Doesn't make any different. We kindly instructed to hold off on presenting the data regarding a +11lb boost Tempest until the next free patch was due and then we'd go into it in a reasonable and respectable way.

That means that we're not going to rant endlessly on the Ubisoft forums. We're going to go off into our own little corner, get the requisite information, and send it in one package presented as cleanly and nicely to Oleg as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ice Fire I dint mean litterally,
what I meant was it was losing the topic and Kurfurst were starting to poke the potato
even if you dont knoe im been whining for this plane from the beginning of IL2 just like u
thought you knew who I were by know?

VW-IceFire
05-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Hmmmm something tells me this thread is dead.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
Doesn't make any different. We kindly instructed to hold off on presenting the data regarding a +11lb boost Tempest until the next free patch was due and then we'd go into it in a reasonable and respectable way.

That means that we're not going to rant endlessly on the Ubisoft forums. We're going to go off into our own little corner, get the requisite information, and send it in one package presented as cleanly and nicely to Oleg as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ice Fire I dint mean litterally,
what I meant was it was losing the topic and Kurfurst were starting to poke the potato
even if you dont knoe im been whining for this plane from the beginning of IL2 just like u
thought you knew who I were by know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Didn't know how to take it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Quite a few of us who have been banging away on the pipes to try and get the Tempest. I'm so pleased that we finally did and that its spectacular. Look out for my upcoming Storm Clouds Part 1 Tempest campaign!

Kurfurst__
05-10-2006, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Start another thread then :P

An 11lbs Tempest was a standard factory built aircraft with the IIA's (batch 1 and 2) being modified in winter 1944 to IIB standard. Its not like a 1.98 ata 109 or a Ta152 or even a P47m. Its not uber, its normal :P

I have never seen any documentation that IIAs were modified to IIB standard. I though they existed parallel. Surely you ain't asking for a little more than what was there...?

FYI, any 109 with the DB/DC engine - this means some 4200 g-10/K-4 - could be set to 1,98ata after it was cleared with maybe an hours work. Running on 1,98ata was a question of proper 100 octane fuel being supplied to a 109 unit or not.

Brain32
05-10-2006, 04:13 AM
Running on 1,98ata was a question of proper 100 octane fuel being supplied to a 109 unit or not.
Same thing applied for Tempests with SabreIIA engines. However we are trying to get a new engine for our Tempest - SabreIIb which did not need special fuel tu run at +11lbs boost http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WOLFMondo
05-10-2006, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Start another thread then :P

An 11lbs Tempest was a standard factory built aircraft with the IIA's (batch 1 and 2) being modified in winter 1944 to IIB standard. Its not like a 1.98 ata 109 or a Ta152 or even a P47m. Its not uber, its normal :P

I have never seen any documentation that IIAs were modified to IIB standard. I though they existed parallel. Surely you ain't asking for a little more than what was there...?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one thing I'm hunting for and might be in the national archives records. The first and second batch were IIA's, the 3rd and 4th batch were definately IIB's from the factory. The first batch of Tempests (series I's) were also supposadly also upgraded to the series II standard (although the tail section between batch 1/2 and 3 is different) with Hispano MKV's. However its clear from an interview with a fitter who worked on Tempests in 1944 during the diver operations that these IIA's ran at 11lbs and used 150 grade fuel.

I've read several pilot and fitter quotes saying that the IIA's boost control and some adjustments to the supercharger were all that were needed to change the engine from A to B and could be done easily in the field.

Hopefully in a short time we can try to get together documents in the UK national archive although its a bit of a nightmare to navigate and know for certain that all the information on the Tempest and Sabre has been got from it. English Electrics archives also need to be looked at as they owned Napier and certainly cancelled the more complex supercharger project for the Sabre.

VW-IceFire
05-10-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Running on 1,98ata was a question of proper 100 octane fuel being supplied to a 109 unit or not.
Same thing applied for Tempests with SabreIIA engines. However we are trying to get a new engine for our Tempest - SabreIIb which did not need special fuel tu run at +11lbs boost http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True true. We know that Tempests ran on standard fuel at +11lb boost. It was the +13lb that really needed the 150 octane to keep things going. But a +13 is not what we're asking for.