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View Full Version : f1 nice trap to alonso from the english



raaaid
08-05-2007, 08:17 AM
he is ordered to stop and as he blocks hamilton he gets a penalty for taking this team orders

shame they dind calculate they would lose constructor points

i wish ferrari wins this year and alonso goes there

JG52Uther
08-05-2007, 09:01 AM
Rubbish.Alonso blocked Hamilton because he thought he was being clever.Not too clever when you have a camera on you though.Funny watching him driving around slowly in the race behind Ralf,and still making mistakes.What a prima donna! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Phil_K
08-05-2007, 09:08 AM
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s161/PhilK_2007/fishing.jpg

raaaid
08-05-2007, 10:06 AM
if it wasnt team orders why team is punished?

AKA_TAGERT
08-05-2007, 10:14 AM
F1 panzies.. go NASCAR

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-05-2007, 10:17 AM
GO F1!!!!!!!

FluffyDucks2
08-05-2007, 10:22 AM
NASCAR has gotta be the most boring motor sport EVER.
Carefully designed to MAXIMISE advertising so that all the drones can be brainwashed into buying more Bud/Coke/****...it really is the pits, but then US tv is **** anyway unless you like watching 24hour BS advertising interrupted briefly every two minutes by the programme you actually want to watch. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WhtBoy
08-05-2007, 01:32 PM
I gave up on F1 when it seemed like every race I saw had the leader at least 10+ seconds ahead of second place, if he was even on the same lap, and the only racing was way back in the pack.

NASCAR's managed competition may not appeal to some, but, at least every race is a race and not just a bunch of loners trying to get past lapped traffic. Talk about BORING!

I do wish NASCAR would do more road courses though.

--Outlaw.

MrMojok
08-05-2007, 02:27 PM
There is a lot more to this story than that, raaaid. The whole thing started when the team decided to punish the English driver Hamilton for disobeying an order to let Alonso by in Q3.

Read up on it some more.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-05-2007, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
if it wasnt team orders why team is punished?


Apparently, it was his own choice, a very stupid one, IMHO. Blocking his own teammate is somebody you should get kicked in the a$$ for. The coms between the driver and the team are open, so anybody can listen and there was no command to block his teammate. (even or especially since it was a sort of late revenge)

Still, the rules are clear: If a team makes efforts to place one before the other, they get punished. In other words, by his stupid move, he made it look like there was a teamorder, violated the above rule by that and got his team punished.

Speaking that Alonso was treated unfair is more than pure nonsense. Schumacher did something similar in 2006 and was put from pole to last place on the starting grid.

FluffyDucks2
08-05-2007, 02:49 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

raaaid
08-05-2007, 03:11 PM
spanish press say alonso obeyed tema orders, thats recorded

i was wondering what english yellow pages say

Capt.LoneRanger
08-05-2007, 03:31 PM
So you say that Spanish yellow pages think that the Spanish idol and twice F1-champion is innocent and the Team McLaren-Mercedes made him make a mistake.

Well, then it must be true, huh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The commission had complete access to the radio-coms, but there was no order. Honestly, as said above, this is not the first time Hamilton and Alonso had their own fight going on.

When Alonso joined the team, he had 2 titles in his backpack and expected to be treated accordingly. He was not, because Hamilton is a great talent which is personally supported by Ron Denis and the Mercedes-Team-chief puts too much weight on teamplay and fairness to prefer one pilot over the other.

After all, the previous thing that happened between Hamilton and Alonso happened, because Hamilton did NOT apply to the teamorder to let Alonso pass by, which actually even saved the team from another punish. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

MrMojok
08-05-2007, 03:58 PM
Yeah, the whole chain of events was set off because King Arthur refused to obey an order to let Alonso by in Q3. It was Alonso's turn to burn off more fuel in Q3. Hamilton refused to let him by, and this is not speculation... Hamilton himself has publicly admitted to the press that he willfully disobeyed this order. That is a fact.

The facts are less clear about what happened next, but for sure in retaliation, Alonso holds Hamilton up long enough at the last stop in Q3 to ensure that he will not get another flying lap. How much Ron Dennis had to do with this is unclear.

But let me ask you this, raaaid: if Alonso is being made a scapegoat for following team orders, why does he claim that when the lollipop went up, he waited another ten seconds because he was talking to the team trying to ensure that the proper tires had been fitted? When the lollipop goes up, the driver goes. You have never seen a Formula One pitstop where the driver didn't key on the lollipop to the exclusion of all else. And neither has anyone else in history. Because they go when the lollipop comes up. Period. They do not sit there for ten seconds having a leisurely chat with pitwall about what tires have been fitted.

The penalties by the Stewards were imposed because McLaren made a ham-fisted attempt to spin the whole story as to what happened. McLaren were penalized their constructor's points in the race because they were pissed that McLaren tried to lie and put up a smoke screen about what really happened.

This is nothing unusual for the FIA. Look at what happened to Honda a couple of years ago with the magic fuel tank fiasco. Their penalty was made even worse than it would have been because there was an attempt to deceive the stewards who were investigating the capacity of the tank.

raaaid
08-05-2007, 04:10 PM
in resumen alonso obeys team orders and hamilton disobbeys them

alonso gets penaliced and hamilton gets away with it

even ron dennis admitted he ordered alonso to wait

Capt.LoneRanger
08-05-2007, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
in resumen alonso obeys team orders and hamilton disobbeys them

alonso gets penaliced and hamilton gets away with it

even ron dennis admitted he ordered alonso to wait

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You really have a special way of interpreting facts the way *YOU* feel most comfortable with. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Alonso got penalized, because he didn't play by the rules of the FIA. Hamilton did not, because he resisted to disobey the rules.


Your logic in other words: You rob a bank and get imprisoned by the police and then you say it's unfair, because I told you it would be nice if I had a million. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


BTW: Can you post a link to that quote, where RON DENIS (!!!) orders Alonso to let Hamilton not finish his lap?

BoCfuss
08-05-2007, 06:27 PM
As a non British newcomer to F1, this is the second season I have been really enjoying F1, I think Alonso was jobbed this race. They should have both been penalized, along with McClaren.

Hamilton is an amazing talent, but I can't stand the attitude.

Gumtree
08-05-2007, 10:04 PM
I am amazed you all still watch the procession that is F1. Down under we get the race late on a Sunday night and I for one can not stay up through the monotonous follow the leader procession that passes for F1 these days.

In my opinion nothing comes close to the bike racing, both Moto Gp and Superbikes, one lap of these two will generally have more lead changes than an entire F1 season.

Not every race is a cracker, but for each processional bike race you would get a seasons worth of follow the leader in F1.

Lucius_Esox
08-06-2007, 12:00 AM
Yeah not sure what happened there but Hamilton for sure admitted not letting Alonso past. He said that he was concerned about the Ferrari getting past him as well. It put the whole thing out of sync. Alonso only crossed the line for his last lap with a second to spare, which means to my mind he did NOT deliberately try to stop Hamilton doing a final lap. Maybe the delay was a power thing. Hey suck on this noob for not doing what your told,, lol.. and it rather publicly backfired!

I think the punishment, although following the letter of the law was over the top and imho spoiled the race.

Thing with F1 is when you do get an overtaking manouvre it's like a goal in football... yeah! More doesn't mean better and for sheer outragous speed/braking/cornereing power, i.e. full on fastest,, nothing compares.

Badsight-
08-06-2007, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Gumtree:
I am amazed you all still watch the procession that is F1. Down under we get the race late on a Sunday night and I for one can not stay up through the monotonous follow the leader procession that passes for F1 these days.

In my opinion nothing comes close to the bike racing, both Moto Gp and Superbikes, one lap of these two will generally have more lead changes than an entire F1 season.

Not every race is a cracker, but for each processional bike race you would get a seasons worth of follow the leader in F1. OT ! , SPAM!

but seriously , this season has been better . & F1 has always been about the cars

& Go Stoner GO!!!!

skimbo
08-06-2007, 02:05 AM
You boys want good racing - watch a round of the World Superbikes - now thats racing.

Lead swaps all sorts of edge of the seat stuff races that could go either way - try it!

Skimbo

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 02:30 AM
bikes are boring as hell... give me a break.


Actually LoneRanger if I was you I wouldn't be so vocal about this because you're the one who's wrong.

Hamilton screwed up by disobeying orders, Hamilton's admitted it and Ron Dennis has said it. Hamilton even admitted to arguing with and cussing at Ron over the radio. The Team has also said that they told Alonso to wait for 20 seconds in the pits. Hell I even saw the lollipop man count down the last five seconds with his fingers for Alonso.

What however is unclear, to me atleast, is why Alonso waited 10 extra seconds... He says he wanted to know if he got the right set of tyres but that seems stupid to me.

Also when investigating the incident the track stewards were told by the team that Alonso had orders to wait. This is fact. It was the REASON for the wait that was not accepted by the stewards. The reason they gave was that they wanted to make sure Alonso had a free track to make his last lap... but at the moment there were only 4 cars on the track and 3 of those came into the pit lane, only Räikkönen was on the track!

I can see why they punished the team, but the whole thing was Hamilton's fault.


Alonso got penalized, because he didn't play by the rules of the FIA. Hamilton did not, because he resisted to disobey the rules.

What the hell are you talking about? Alonso didn't make any of the decisions, it was the team. Hamilton didn't resist to disobey rules, he disobeyed team orders. And the orders he was given were not against the rules of the FIA. McLaren has done it every race. In order to not favor a single driver each of them takes turns getting that extra fuel burn. It was simply Alonso's turn and Hamilton wouldn't have it.

And it was Hamilton who created the situation in the pits, because if he had let Alonso pass like he should have, he wouldn't have had to wait in the pits behind Alonso.


BTW: Can you post a link to that quote, where RON DENIS (!!!) orders Alonso to let Hamilton not finish his lap?

I could, but they're all in Finnish. But there's a lot of articles about it at f1.com... the official site for F1. Why don't you try reading there?


You really have a special way of interpreting facts the way *YOU* feel most comfortable with.

I'd say you should look into the mirror and repeat that to yourself.

I should also add that I don't care much about Alonso getting punished. Infact I was quite happy because that moved Kimi up to the clean side of the track for the start and enabled him to get 2nd place and to really harass Hamilton all the way to the finish. they were separated by only 0.7 seconds.

But all things being fair it should have been Hamilton who got the blame for it and not Alonso. But oh well.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-06-2007, 02:30 AM
I must confess I stopped watching F1 about 2 years ago. I know I should be more patriotic and praise Schumacher for his success, but I just don't like him and I also feel, that F1 got more and more boring over the recent years.

I still prefer CART-racing over F1, as the courses are a lot tougher and I also like NASCAR, though the courses are surely not an argument for this racing series. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
08-06-2007, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by mrsiCkstar:
bikes are boring as hell... give me a break.


Actually LoneRanger if I was you I wouldn't be so vocal about this because you're the one who's wrong.

Hamilton screwed up by disobeying orders, Hamilton's admitted it and Ron Dennis has said it. Hamilton even admitted to arguing with and cussing at Ron over the radio. The Team has also said that they told Alonso to wait for 20 seconds in the pits. Hell I even saw the lollipop man count down the last five seconds with his fingers for Alonso.

What however is unclear, to me atleast, is why Alonso waited 10 extra seconds... He says he wanted to know if he got the right set of tyres but that seems stupid to me.

Also when investigating the incident the track stewards were told by the team that Alonso had orders to wait. This is fact. It was the REASON for the wait that was not accepted by the stewards. The reason they gave was that they wanted to make sure Alonso had a free track to make his last lap... but at the moment there were only 4 cars on the track and 3 of those came into the pit lane, only Räikkönen was on the track!

I can see why they punished the team, but the whole thing was Hamilton's fault.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Alonso got penalized, because he didn't play by the rules of the FIA. Hamilton did not, because he resisted to disobey the rules.

What the hell are you talking about? Alonso didn't make any of the decisions, it was the team. Hamilton didn't resist to disobey rules, he disobeyed team orders. And the orders he was given were not against the rules of the FIA. McLaren has done it every race. In order to not favor a single driver each of them takes turns getting that extra fuel burn. It was simply Alonso's turn and Hamilton wouldn't have it.

And it was Hamilton who created the situation in the pits, because if he had let Alonso pass like he should have, he wouldn't have had to wait in the pits behind Alonso.


BTW: Can you post a link to that quote, where RON DENIS (!!!) orders Alonso to let Hamilton not finish his lap?

I could, but they're all in Finnish. But there's a lot of articles about it at f1.com... the official site for F1. Why don't you try reading there?


You really have a special way of interpreting facts the way *YOU* feel most comfortable with.

I'd say you should look into the mirror and repeat that to yourself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I think you basically misunderstood my first argument completely. Its a fact that Hamilton disobeyed the team-order and I didn't deny that in any part of my posts. Its also a fact, though, that by *NOT* following team-orders, he also didn't violate the FIA-rules. That's all I said about that incident. And before somebody jumps to conclusions: that doesn't indicate that Hamilton did not follow teamorders because he didn't want to violate the FIA-rules! There were other statements taken by himself, but that is a completely different story.

2. Odd. If you've watched the race and the discussion afterwards, it was clear that Alonso didn't have any order to block Hamilton. Infact Alonso was ready to go and according to the cameras he stopped when he was given a handsign from one of the team. The fact that it was his physiotherapist making that sign doesn't support that official order thing either. But as I didn't read the official statement of the stewards yet, I might miss out on something here. Maybe you can post a link to your source?

3. The F1 site was one of my sources. I didn't find those facts there, though?

4. As I don't even care about F1 any more, I have honestly no reason to support one over the other, so I even less care about the drivers or who is better than the other. I only can rely on the sources I have, though, but as most of them are German, there is no real bias there, either?

3.

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 03:04 AM
Its also a fact, though, that by *NOT* following team-orders, he also didn't violate the FIA-rules.

it's also a fact that had he followed the team orders, he wouldn't have violated the FIA rules anyway.


If you've watched the race and the discussion afterwards, it was clear that Alonso didn't have any order to block Hamilton.

Correct, he didn't have direct orders to block Hamilton. That would be stupid. He was however told to wait 20 seconds for some reason, he didn't do it by himself. The lollipop man counted down the last 5 seconds of his 20 seconds, but Alonso didn't go. Why? I don't know, but I did see Ron Dennis get pretty angry at Alonso physiotherapist. What that guy is doing on the pitwall anyway is beyond me. He has no business there.

So you're right, the team didn't go on the radio and say "alright Fernando, block Hamilton on the pits, he deserves it" ...but they told him to wait for 20 seconds. The fact that Hamilton happened to drive into the pits while that 20 seconds was counting down though was purely Hamilton's own fault.

About Champ Cars and NASCAR... I like both as well as F1. Champ Cars used to be very exciting back in the late 90's but lately they too have gotten staler and more F1 like. They've dropped ovals altogether now which is a shame.

F1 however in recent years with rule changes has gotten more exciting again. The new qualifying guarantees that the pole position is never desided until the last second. There's still some things that could be done to get cars to pass more during the race, but it's getting better.

It doesn't surprise me that most people that complain about how boring F1 is also comment about how they haven't bothered to watch it for years. Thus admitting they have no clue about what they're talking about.

This is one of the most exciting seasons in years and years, when was the last time there has been 4 drivers fighting for the championship this late in the season?

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 03:21 AM
here's a quote from McLaren's statement after the penalties were given:


"We agree with the stewards, that when the team decided to hold Fernando for 20 seconds there were four cars on the circuit.

got it from here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/8/6597.html

here's also a link to the post-race press conference where Hamilton talks extensively about his decision to not obey orders and his arguement with Ron:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/8/6602.html

I don't know how you managed to not find anything about it...

Capt.LoneRanger
08-06-2007, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by mrsiCkstar:
it's also a fact that had he followed the team orders, he wouldn't have violated the FIA rules anyway.

That's not correct, sorry. FIA rules are pretty sharp now against any form of manipulation in ranking, especially inside a team. New rules were made for these kind of incidents, after Schumacher was very obviously prefered over Barricello during the last years and many fans being offended by that.


@mrsiCkstar

Thanks for the link. So there was a 20 second delay. I still don't see the point where Fernando was lead into a trap by his team and stewards, though???

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 03:54 AM
I'm not arguing for that point, I don't think it was a trap. That's a bit too conspiracy theorist to me if you know what I mean. I think the penalty for McLaren as a team is fair, as they made the decision. Alonso didn't make any decisions so I don't fully understand why he was penalized as a driver when it was Hamilton who created the situation and in the end profited from it.


That's not correct, sorry. FIA rules are pretty sharp now against any form of manipulation in ranking, especially inside a team. New rules were made for these kind of incidents, after Schumacher was very obviously prefered over Barricello during the last years and many fans being offended by that.

True, but the team orders this refers to are ones that Ferrari were famous for during Schumachers hey days... like telling Barrichello to slow down and surrender 1st place to Schumacher, and even in 99 in Hockenheim when Mika Salo, who was sitting in for Schumi after his accident in Silverstone, was winning the race but the team told him to let Eddie Irvine pass because his victory was more important to the team.

The rules however don't concern qualifying tactics. There is no favorism inside McLaren, the fact that both Alonso and Hamilton feel that the other guy is favored over themselves speaks for itself. Like I said, they take turns in qualifying who gets to go out first.

If this was a punishable team order then McLaren would have to be punished for every race of the season so far.

Even back in Monaco earlier this year, where McLaren took a double victory, when Ron Dennis told Hamilton to not try to attack Alonso for lead because he didn't want them to crash and lose everything. This to me is more reminiscent of the old Ferrari orders, but McLaren didn't get penalized for that.

So the rules aren't as hard as they would seem.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-06-2007, 04:00 AM
Agreed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I just felt tempted again by raaaids strange view of things. As much as I try to not look into threads opened by him, I sometimes just can't resist to see what he came up with again. And this was just a too weird conspiracy theory to just let it stand like that uncommented. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-06-2007, 04:10 AM
yes....alonso stayed in the pits to make sure hamilton cant get two hotlaps and qualify better than him...

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-06-2007, 04:12 AM
oh yea...i forgot to say that alonso started being cocky the first time he beaten Schumi...

MEGILE
08-06-2007, 05:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XTpPh-7EnM&mode=related&search=

Capt.LoneRanger
08-06-2007, 05:47 AM
Well, that video actually speaks for itself and against Alonso.


Besides that, according to an Italian newspaper, Alonso has started another round. Apparently he has confronted Ron Denis with the sentence "Me or Hamilton" and the teamleader officially said, that both have signed agreements to stay in the team for the season. If Alonso had a problem with that, that would be his personal thing. McLaren-Mercedes will continue their policy of who finishes qualification the fastest goes first.

raaaid
08-06-2007, 05:48 AM
hamilton is a judas he disobeyed orders costing the points of the team and alonso to lose 5 positions

but as he is used to all f1 world helping him win as when he got out of the track in the last race and he was pulled in, they didnt do the same when it happened to alonso

raaaid
08-06-2007, 05:51 AM
youre so hipocrit

youve been reading on f1 so you know hamilton disobeyed orders yet you think what it looks is what it counts

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 05:53 AM
LoneRanger, I wouldn't trust anything an Italian newspaper writes about F1... no offence to any Italians here, but their F1 media and fans are probably the most unreliable and unloyal you can find on the planet.

Example is Kimi, after he won the season opener he was hailed as the messiah of F1 in Italy, then he had some bad luck with the car and a few bad results and they started circulating rumours that he was going to be fired and replaced, and Massa should clearly be the number one driver for the team.

Then comes the French and British GPs and all of a sudden Kimi is the one and only. "He drives like Schumacher at his best!"

I wouldn't be surprised that the story you heard is just a malicious rumour started to try to further mess things up at McLaren.

OD_
08-06-2007, 05:58 AM
You've just got a bee in your bonnet because he's Spanish...get over it. So he disobeyed Team Orders, he didn't break the FIA rules, who did? Alonso, break the rules and pay the price.

Because Hamilton didn't break FIA rules there is no come back at him from the FIA, only Mclaren, but they would be stupid to penalise him when he is as talented as he is...get back to having your head in the clouds and working out weird and wonderful inventions to replace Track IR and leave the nationalistic stuff behind, suits you better.

OD.

raaaid
08-06-2007, 06:11 AM
what fia rule did alonso break if it was its team whom ordered him to wait?

then why was alonso sanctioned and not the team?

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 06:15 AM
Alonso was sanctioned because after the 20 seconds his team told him to wait were up, he waited a further 10 seconds for some reason. And the reason he gave was not good enough to the track stewards.

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-06-2007, 06:57 AM
damn i cant see the video it has been banned

MEGILE
08-06-2007, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Anti_Ship_Fella:
damn i cant see the video it has been banned

srry dude, they are all gone.

Apparently F1 management doesn't want you to see it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 07:03 AM
it's a conspiracy to cover up their dirty laundry... just like roswell!

OD_
08-06-2007, 07:23 AM
Maybe aliens abducted him...would explain the wait, they must have just skipped the anal probing!

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-06-2007, 07:28 AM
HAHAHAHAHHAHAH and why dont they want me to see it im their loyal fan...this does it!!!! im not a FAN anymore im a fan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

p1ngu666
08-06-2007, 08:38 AM
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-436639396554...ype=search&plindex=2 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4366393965547739926&q=irish+road+racing&total=72&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)

wanna go see one of them road races one day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mkRfok_oxY

drag racing also fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA_TAGERT
08-06-2007, 10:53 AM
F1 blows.. case closed.. move along.. nothing to see here.

mrsiCkstar
08-06-2007, 12:19 PM
you're just jealous because the steering wheel on an F1 car is more advanced and expensive than a Nextel Cup stock car http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFPLAYER2007
08-06-2007, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by mrsiCkstar:
you're just jealous because the steering wheel on an F1 car is more advanced and expensive than a Nextel Cup stock car http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry but F1 "nowadays" is for pussies, i watched some videos of 70s, 80s and early 90s F1 and i must say that F1 was really F1...today is pure puke.

Nascar= you can hit in your rival, make him spin, rub against the wall, you can hit in the bumper= thats racing...F1= thats ban...i cant stand those stupid *** brits.

mrsiCkstar
08-07-2007, 12:30 AM
I'm sorry, but wrecking isn't racing, it's just wrecking. Now I like NASCAR but it's nothing like what you describe.

I had to laugh after so many years of Niki Lauda complaining and saying stuff like "these days a 2 year old could drive an f1 car", he was given the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is and he ended up spinning hopelessly at the first corner.

people who say things like "today's f1 is boring, there's no skill involved because of traction control" and a load of other **** like that seriously have no idea what they're talking about and just don't understand the sport.