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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:54 AM
Hey guys, this kid here(me duh!) got a job. I'm looking to upgrade my computer, but it runs all my games fine for now. What about upgrading my Microsoft sidewinder joystick?

Whats a good joystick for under $100? Eh? Thanks a bunch.

IL-2 Related, I want it to play Forgotten Battles and World War II Online.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:54 AM
Hey guys, this kid here(me duh!) got a job. I'm looking to upgrade my computer, but it runs all my games fine for now. What about upgrading my Microsoft sidewinder joystick?

Whats a good joystick for under $100? Eh? Thanks a bunch.

IL-2 Related, I want it to play Forgotten Battles and World War II Online.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:51 AM
Hey, just wanted to say that I purchased the Microsoft FFB 2 today as a result of speaking with Bearcat of the 99th. The stick ran 50 bucks and I must say it was well worth the investment. I know that some people do not like the FFB and end up turning it off. This would be an option if you are not able to adjust. It has 8 progammable buttons along with a hat switch and throttle. By the way it is USB.

I run this stick in tandem with the Saitek X36F and X35T and also a set of CH Pro USB rudder pedals. The whole shabang seems to be working very well. Now all I need to do is practice with them and try to remember all of the programmed buttons that I have assigned....LOL.

Oh well, thought that I would give my 2 cents worth on the subject. Good luck in your decision.


BogoZ

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:04 AM
I just got a Cyborg 3D Rumble Stick, by saitek. I went looking for hte MS sidewinder FFB 2, but I couldn't find one for less then 80. Best buys had it listed for less, but had none. Over all, I didn't care for the MSSFFB2's button configuration, so I stopped looking for one and went with what I got... I think I'm going to keep it.

IT's a little weird, and if I knew what I was getting I might not have bought it, but it's growing on me. IT's not really force feedback, more of a rumble. Very odd. It's going to take some thinking.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:11 PM
Okay well after looking I found possiblities in the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2 and a Saitek45. I'm not sure, what are everyone's thoughts on force feedback, is it worth it?

Thanks for the help.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:14 PM
I heard that the whole Sidewinder lineup of joysticks is no longer going to be produced. So you may want to factor that in. MS apparently with either stop after a certain date or has already stopped making them.

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:16 PM
Apparently it adds a hell of a lot to the game. I don't have it, but a mate of mine who does says that an awful lot of information is conveyed through FFB stick movements.

I can't advise on that specific MS stick, although in general I've found that whilst they're good they develop quite a bit of play in the X/Y axis rather quickly.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:19 PM
TheSimplerOne wrote:
- Okay well after looking I found possiblities in the
- Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2 and a Saitek45. I'm not
- sure, what are everyone's thoughts on force
- feedback, is it worth it?
-
- Thanks for the help.
-
-

FF is cool but only for some time.
It's not really helping you in any way, i think.
The x45 rocks my world...
But some good ruder pedals should be something to consider.
Twisting the stick sucks! And The x45 ruder is quite... eh... Horrible!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:46 PM
If you dont mind having a gameport stick instead of a USB, take a look at the Ch F16 Fighter stick. It's only $29 on their main website (chproducts.com). It used to be their flagship stick and used to cost well over $100. I have had one for years and it still works great. Put it together with a pro throttle and you have an awesome setup. Just be warned, you can't combine Gameport devices and USB devices.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:53 PM
I use a Logitech Wingman 3D FFB, and it works really fine. It's accurate, comfortable and solid. It's about 50? (about $50) in Spain.



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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:36 PM
Get the X45. FF is nice but it doesn't compare w/ having both your hands busy working the plane w/o ever having to touch the keyboard. Also look into rudder pedals then you can use both feet too.



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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:14 PM
Saitek X45 is a dream for the money you pay!

It even has a "basic" rudder control. If you become "hard core" you will definitively invest another 100USD for a real set of rudder pedals.


IF money is not an issue (and your wife does not have transparency on your bank account) then the Thrustmaster Cougar is the thing (and you still need to pay 100USD for the rudder pedals)...


If you buy the X45 make sure to download the newest SW from Saitek's web site and DO NOT install the CD enclosed in the package.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:17 PM
FREEDOM 2.4 Cordless is real nice /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:26 PM
I'm thinking I need a decent rudder on the joystick since I can't afford or fit rudder pedals under my desk. I already have almost no feet room. I'll probably get the X45 or the Logitech Wingman 3D FFB. I'll go to best buy and play around with them to decide. You all helped me a bunch.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:01 AM
Whatever FFB set up you go for, go for it. It adds a huge ammount to the game. A lot of flight info is conveyed through the stick, stall buffetting, damage, gun vibration, etc.

Though, I think they toned the FFB down in Forgotten battles, compared to the original game.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:20 AM
I just bought the Saitek Cyborg gold last week and I'm finding it awesome. I'm also using the pedals from a logitech momo racing setup as rudder. I use my mouse to look and zoom/-zoom along with mousewheel as throttle. A complete non-keyboard solution. Now all I have to do is replace my severely roasted motherboard. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:14 AM
I went from a Microsoft FF sidewinder to a X45 w/ch pro pedals.
I dont miss FF at all.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:17 AM
I'm sorry Col.Flanders but how do you fit all the Forgotten Battles functions onto a joystick. You have engine management, throttle, superchargers, seperate engines, prop pitch, fuel mixture, gear, flaps, radiator. Much less, how would you type to a friend? I have to ask...last post. I just have to know that, figuring out a way to keep all those things simple would be like finding the fountain of youth.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:37 AM
To do that you need a HOTAS set up with joystick throttle and pedals.

I am using a FF stick and find its fine. you can disable FF in FB and have it play like a normal self-centering stick or you can rename some of the IL2 feeback files if you want to remove individual effects like gun shake -- but most people just play it with FFB fully enabled.

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:44 AM
I have a ms sidewinder precision2 seems to work pretty good.
I just bought my dad a saitek cyborg rumble joystick. It has a very good rumble feel for stalls, machine gun/cannons etc...but my only gripe is that the spring cup gets 'hung up' or has a sticky feel. Might just need to be broken in some more.

t


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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:49 AM
I use an X45 and a MSFFB2. I just picked up a spare last week from Best Buy for $49. No rebate. The fact that the stick is not going to be made any more is moot. I still have my original FFB stick. When I recently moved I gave that stick to my son to use since he likes IL2 as well..he is 6 the stick still works well and it is two years old. I use my old spare stick now and with the new spare I will probably be using a MSFFB stick for some time. I use my X45 in conjunction with the FFB stick. The FFB stick is my main stick and I only use the X45 stick as a button bay. The throttle I use fully. I have every command possible in FB for a single engined plane on my sticks. Gear,auto & manual& tailwheel lock, trims, elevator,rudder& aileron, pitch,lights...nav,landing,cockpit & tip smoke,engine start,bailout,supercharger,mixture,several views,mouse pan,flaps,autopilots,drop tanks....all on my sticks. I only use my keyboard if i am watching a track and I can even use my stick to do that as I have F1,F2,F3,CTRL,SHIFT,wide,normal& gunsight views,quick track record,radiator and map also on my sticks. You can get a refurbed X45 for $39 here... http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/recprod.html. For the $$$ the X45 is hands down the best stick you can get pound for pound,feature for feature..(sturdiness,programmability,functionality ). Together with a MSFFB2 it is an unbeatable combo for this sim. If you are a weekend simmer and immersion is not a big thing to you then you can stick with one stick..(no pun intended). But if yoiu are a hardcore simmer and immersion is your thing this combo is unbeatable. You get a primo HOTAS setup in it's own right for $39...$79 full price and even at that price it is more than worth it. With the MSFFB you get the FFB experience...I turn my gun kick off..I like FFB for the flight control. You can use any FFB stick with an X45..it doesnt have to be a MSFFB. But if you have an X45 or are thinking of getting one dont stop there. If you cant find an MSFFB then get a Saitek one.....from what I have been told they are second only to the MS stick in FFB. Dont think that all this will make you a better combat pilot in itself. It wont. If combined with practice it will help. PRACTICE is most impotant.It wont make you an "Ace" against a better pilot. That is not why I do it. I want to feel as close to flying a plane when I boot up and put this sim on. My setup helps me to immerse my self in this, my fantasy come true from a long time ago.
My 2 cents......There is a profile on our squad site in my sig that you can download. If that doesnt float your boat then you can make your own off of it but FB is such an awesome sim that supports multiple controllers..there is no reason not to take advantage of it. I have FFB,HOTAS ultraprgrammability and rudder pedals and I got it all for under $200. Cant beat it with a stick.

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Message Edited on 08/17/0309:58PM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:32 AM
TheSimplerOne wrote:
- I'm sorry Col.Flanders but how do you fit all the
- Forgotten Battles functions onto a joystick. You
- have engine management, throttle, superchargers,
- seperate engines, prop pitch, fuel mixture, gear,
- flaps, radiator. Much less, how would you type to a
- friend? I have to ask...last post. I just have to
- know that, figuring out a way to keep all those
- things simple would be like finding the fountain of
- youth.
-

Okay...so maybe I was exaggerating just a liiiitle but 90% of my keys are mapped to those controls now. Because I'm a non "hat-looker" nor padlocker, I use my mouse to look with my right hand and my leftie setup on the joystick in the other. (Saitek cyborg allows for complete customisable left or right-handed setup) 8-way hat goes a long way. Also, I'm using the joystick throttle as elevator trim. That, combined with rudder pedals means that you can almost fly ground attacks solely using rudder pedals and ele. trim.

Admittedly, typing to a friend does involve the keyboard as I don't use Roger Wilco with close friends on a password protected server /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ..BUT, typing to a friend usually gets you killed anyway unless you're on the ground.

The majority of my key-presses now are for things like external view and fly-by, enemy view etc.

The hand-eye, co-ord stuff is all at the fingertips or toes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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zomby_woof
08-18-2003, 03:35 AM
TheSimplerOne wrote:
- Hey guys, this kid here(me duh!) got a job. I'm
- looking to upgrade my computer, but it runs all my
- games fine for now. What about upgrading my
- Microsoft sidewinder joystick?
-
- Whats a good joystick for under $100? Eh? Thanks a
- bunch.
-
- IL-2 Related, I want it to play Forgotten Battles
- and World War II On line.

I've always had good luck with Ligate sticks & mice. Anything else from that company sucks especially their keyboards.

Logitech sticks are priced right. Their latest cordless gets awesome reviews & Logitech Strike Force 3D wins out over Microsoft Sidewinder FF 2 [Review by Len "Viking1" Jameson, December 2000 www.combatsim.com/] (http://www.combatsim.com/])

I've been using a Logitech Extreme Digital D for well over two years with no problems whatsoever.

It replaced an original Cyborg D that stupid flimsy trigger broke in a heartbeat. Looks pretty but it has a major design flaw. New triggers are available [cheap] from the manufacturer.

The Cyborg 3D replaced a Ms Sidewinder 3D Pro version1 that was the best ever joystick that I have owned.

Ms screwed with that comfortable design and button placement ushering in their next line of absolute crap and and no Win XP driver support. HK [who cares] Msoft no longer makes joyticks.

It is my opinion that Logitech and Saitek's latest Cyborg line-ups are the best bang for the buck twist stick controllers. Want to up from that - go for CH Products.

BTW: Thrustmaster is a no go from their over-priced Cougar down to their commercial Star Wars kiddie lines of cheap gimmicky plastic sticks.

zw

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:12 AM
imho the x-45 is very nicely made well thought and feature rich WITH the exception of the rudder rockers which are nearly usless in a furball of any length,logitech wingman series are very comfortable, the way to go is to buy a logitech wingman 3d(non ffb) and dedicate your remaining $ to a trackir

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