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junkers2006
08-05-2006, 06:56 AM
hello! well i dont understand one, why in this game are not included gloster meteor plane?

well Me-262 ir very nice plane, but meteor is better a bit an looks cooler too!

i wolud be haappy to have this plane in my collection too!

what did you think?

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 07:35 AM
Meteor and Vampire should have been in the "1946" set. Truly disgusting. No difficulty researching these. Thankfully I can fly the post-war variants in STRIKE FIGHTERS.

junkers2006
08-05-2006, 09:19 AM
well it means, that is not possible?

VW-IceFire
08-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Nobody in the third party finished it and the developer never made one.

I have to disagree about the Meteor being better. The Meteor Mark I and Mark III which served during WWII were both slower and less agile than the Me-262. The Mark I had limiters on the control stick to prevent pilots from excecuting any manuevers that the airframe would not take. Although the Mark III was better...it wasn't until after the war that the Meteor became a true fighter aircraft with clipped wings to increase the roll rate to a decent level, structural strengthening, more powerful engines....so on and so forth.

The Meteor basically had two roles: V-1 Chaser and Ground Attack aircraft. The RAF limited its combat engagements to actions near friendly lines so as not to allow the possibility of a Meteor being lost and captured by the enemy. A flight of Meteors actually sighted and prepared to engage Me-262's until Mustangs broke up the gathering attack by mistaking the Meteors for the German jets.

It'd still be nice to see it...limitations and all.

junkers2006
08-05-2006, 02:33 PM
well that,s ok if it is not so good as me-262, but i am impressed, how it looks, and i bee happy if had chance in il-2 to fight with him!

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 02:45 PM
I don't really grasp the point of a "1946" add-on which gives the Luftwaffe and Sovs advanced equipment but leaves the Western Allies without even the best late-war Spitfire, and only the YP-80 to defend against the high-tech onslaught. My biggest criticism of the Maddox method to approaching aircraft collections is that they are notoriously unsystematic and haphazard.

joeap
08-05-2006, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I don't really grasp the point of a "1946" add-on which gives the Luftwaffe and Sovs advanced equipment but leaves the Western Allies without even the best late-war Spitfire, and only the YP-80 to defend against the high-tech onslaught. My biggest criticism of the Maddox method to approaching aircraft collections is that they are notoriously unsystematic and haphazard.

Agreed, but this is also a function of 1C asking for volunteer 3rd party contributions, so they have to accept what modellers were interested in, plus it had to be up to standard and etc.

Hopefully a more systematic method will be put in place for BoB and the later chapters.

Waldo.Pepper
08-05-2006, 03:34 PM
A flight of Meteors actually sighted and prepared to engage Me-262's until Mustangs broke up the gathering attack by mistaking the Meteors for the German jets.


Hey Ice.. I would be VERY interested in reading more about this. Do you have a reference please?

Have you read the chapter in Flying under Fire (vol 2)? (about the meteor? One was shot up in the circuit over Manston by an over zelous Spitfire pilot.)

Nimits
08-05-2006, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I don't really grasp the point of a "1946" add-on which gives the Luftwaffe and Sovs advanced equipment but leaves the Western Allies without even the best late-war Spitfire, and only the YP-80 to defend against the high-tech onslaught. My biggest criticism of the Maddox method to approaching aircraft collections is that they are notoriously unsystematic and haphazard.

I think this time around it has as much to do with the fact that Maddox is a Russian, as is most of the team, than anything else. All of the add-ons are very Russian centric. So when a Russian guy wants to do a 1946 add-on, we get VVS vs Luftwaffte in 1946 (nevermind that it is probably the most politically and historically improbably of all the 1946 scenarios . . .)

VW-IceFire
08-05-2006, 10:33 PM
The 1946 addon is being done by Luthier's team at RRG. They obviously set down the theater as being VVS vs Luftwaffe in what-if 1946. Western Europe has always been an afterthought in this series...AEP was the most Western Europe centric of any of the products.

CornbreadPattie
08-05-2006, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Thankfully I can fly the post-war variants in STRIKE FIGHTERS.

People really put too much faith in that game. IL-2 and Strike Fighters have no comparison. IL-2 is geared up towards reality and Strike Fighters toward fun. They have almost nothing in common, and Strike Fighters has not the detail that IL-2 has.

leitmotiv
08-06-2006, 04:45 AM
Clearly you have never tried it on full realism nor have you ever tried to shoot a Sparrow from a Phantom in a '67 scenario! In the mechanics of air combat the newest versions of STRIKE FIGHTERS/WINGS OVER VIETNAM/WINGS OVER EUROPE have the details right and that is what matters. Clearly none are as pretty as IL-2 COMPLETE, but that is not what counts. I have had WOV for a year and a half and have shot down around 10 North Viet aircraft, and have been shot down many many times. In the same time period I've shot down dozens of aircraft with the Maddox system---and that's against the supposedly unbeatable AI. I don't think either are toylike, and it is ridiculous to praise one at the expense of the other---it is a trite habit.

junkers2006
08-06-2006, 05:56 AM
this means that meteor will be included in november s expansion? or some other expansion! in wings of europe game i fly with meteor but it was real bad, because it s not a simulator bu just a simple plane game!

leitmotiv
08-06-2006, 07:06 AM
No Meteor is promised for IL-2 COMPLETE before it ends, junkers2006---c'est la vie!

VW-IceFire
08-06-2006, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A flight of Meteors actually sighted and prepared to engage Me-262's until Mustangs broke up the gathering attack by mistaking the Meteors for the German jets.


Hey Ice.. I would be VERY interested in reading more about this. Do you have a reference please?

Have you read the chapter in Flying under Fire (vol 2)? (about the meteor? One was shot up in the circuit over Manston by an over zelous Spitfire pilot.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
See if I can dig up. Its another story that is burried in some books I have somewhere but can't remember where. I assimilate the info but not where it came from http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma1958
08-06-2006, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Clearly you have never tried it on full realism nor have you ever tried to shoot a Sparrow from a Phantom in a '67 scenario! In the mechanics of air combat the newest versions of STRIKE FIGHTERS/WINGS OVER VIETNAM/WINGS OVER EUROPE have the details right and that is what matters. Clearly none are as pretty as IL-2 COMPLETE, but that is not what counts. I have had WOV for a year and a half and have shot down around 10 North Viet aircraft, and have been shot down many many times. In the same time period I've shot down dozens of aircraft with the Maddox system---and that's against the supposedly unbeatable AI. I don't think either are toylike, and it is ridiculous to praise one at the expense of the other---it is a trite habit. You've only shot down dozens of IL2 AI?? I shoot down that many in a night and they are usually set on ace or at least veteran. I don't understand why some seem to think the AI in this sim is very challenging. They aren't too bad though, could be worse.

Beaufort-RAF
08-07-2006, 03:44 AM
http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/gallery/meteor3s1024.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/gallery/meteor31024.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/gallery/meteorspeed1024.jpg

Beaufort-RAF
08-07-2006, 09:00 AM
http://www.unrealaircraft.com/fowler/images/meteor_sea.jpg

hotspace
08-07-2006, 11:22 AM
God, those are beautiful pictures http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-07-2006, 01:09 PM
One of the things that has always endeared this series to me is the fact that many of the flyable aircraft we have have NEVER been modelled/flyable before. I've flown flight-sims for almost 2 decades (sheesh, I'm an old fart) and having a YaK, Ilyushin or myriad other aircraft never before in flight sims is simply very cool.

Regarding the 46' add-on, Sure I'd love to see something for the Western sector as well, but I'm not offended or overly disappointed to see there aren't plans for any.


TB

orkan_3d
08-07-2006, 07:24 PM
Bravo TgD Thunderbolt56! There are so many diferent planes and theaters of war, why always looking for BOB or Pacific?

junkers2006
08-08-2006, 03:15 PM
the pictures ar very beatiful!
but what is that 46 s add on? is that kind of expansion for some game?

VW-IceFire
08-08-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by junkers2006:
the pictures ar very beatiful!
but what is that 46 s add on? is that kind of expansion for some game?
Living under some sort of rock? Everyones talking....

http://rrgstudios.com/

http://rrgstudios.com/img/1946/30_full.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2006, 10:59 PM
Microsoft and others already did the western 1946 thing. Time for something new. In a way, 1946 (and Mongolia pac) are Maddox return to the East.

Western 1944 Microsoft Theater was the worst mistake Oleg made. He should have made Pacific and done it *right* instead of AEP, as the Pacific is a semi-forgotten battle even in the West, and Oleg always does his best work when he follows the Forgotten Theme and not copy Microsoft.

PF feels so good, with the basic carrier ops and the PF maps show unfulfilled potential. That's where Oleg should have gone instead of 1944 Microsoft Theater.

I guess you can see I have Zero interest in Western Europe 1944, probably because I'm supposed to like it. 1940 is another story though. Battle of France addon pack for BoB And Beyond will be the most independent thinking idea in flight sim development since Eastern Front FB and Cold War StrikeFighters.

Oh and ya, Falcon missiles in SF/WoV do not make for an "easy" combat flight sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif no no

joeap
08-09-2006, 05:32 AM
Actually Lexx, Med and Italy 43-44 (North Africa too) are something interesting for me. Norway and the air part of the Battle of the Atlantic as well. Forgotten Battles too. Agree with you otherwise...and yes missles and high-tech do not make a sim easier.

Dtools4fools
08-09-2006, 08:20 AM
Luthor,

as much as I agree with you (BoB, France, Easern Front, Poland, Med and Pacific all have more fascination for me than West44) looking at the thousands of Super-Jug, Super-Pony, Super-109, Super-Spit, Super-FW-posts I think there are lot of people who do like those planes...
****

VW-IceFire
08-09-2006, 03:17 PM
I love the 1944 period...the Normandy invasion, Arnheim, and the Ardennes breakout are amongst my favourites in WWII history. I'm not sure how this period could be boring to anyone except most people don't really look at this period right. The vast majority of ops that I'm interested are the Spitfires and Thunderbolts flying from the continent on makeshift runways and then the Mustangs hitting all the flak traps and the swarms of Luftwaffe fighters that started to show up during the later half of the invasion. How about the Typhoon cab rank that nobody pays attention to where Typhoons in pairs continually attacked German armor and vehicles. Boring? For tactical air combat? No!

Nonetheless...I'm looking forward to a new theater with Storm of War: Mediteranian. North Africa and the tank busting Hurricane IID's sound good!

sudoku1941
08-09-2006, 08:20 PM
Well, they could start by actually having a map, any map, of the Mediterranean that actually bore resemblance to N. Africa, Malta, Sicily, Tunisia, etc., etc.

Then, we could worry about whether we have Hurri Is, IIs, IICs, IIDs, or whatever...

leitmotiv
08-09-2006, 08:28 PM
The only lures for me of '44-45 were the Battle of Berlin between RAF Bomber Command and the German night defenses which culminated in winter '44 with the Germans ascendent, and the colossal battles between the American Air Forces and the Luftwaffe in the winter/spring of '44 which destroyed the latter as an effective force---after that it was all anti-climax.

smokincrater
08-10-2006, 12:07 AM
I have already mentioned of the fact that I would love to see the Lanc and night fighters, perhaps of AI ground intercept controlling you and updating target information. I think that would be most interesting! Some real life air force simulations vectoring fighters to the emeny formations are also quite taxing. but I highly doubt that we will ever see a game released with that fuction.
Night flights with Oboe H2s and so forth would be fun. Particularly the Dam buster raid. Defending using tame boar and wild boar tatics would be fun too.

leitmotiv
08-10-2006, 03:57 AM
A real night air war sim with all the trimmings would be my dream. I hope the WWI flight sims in the works will do the night well. I would like to fly a German naval zeppelin to London in 1915!

VW-IceFire
08-10-2006, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by sudoku1941:
Well, they could start by actually having a map, any map, of the Mediterranean that actually bore resemblance to N. Africa, Malta, Sicily, Tunisia, etc., etc.

Then, we could worry about whether we have Hurri Is, IIs, IICs, IIDs, or whatever...
Sorry...might be missing some details here. You know why we don't have those kinds of maps in the game right?

Storm of War: Battle of Britan is the start...Oleg has said for over a year now that the follow on theater would be North Africa, and the Mediteranian, and who knows...maybe the rest of that campaign as well. Thats exactly why I said it. Nobody seems to clue in. We're going someplace different with a different set of planes than we're typically used to and I think that'll be fun.

But I don't think 1944 is boring. Its boring to those who make it boring. There's so much going on during that time period.

Dtools4fools
08-11-2006, 08:50 AM
It's not that I think 1944 is boring.
But I'm bored to death by all the über-plane whining. At that comes mainly from late44-plane lovers...
Which makes 44 the least appealing time frame to me...
*****

VW-IceFire
08-11-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
It's not that I think 1944 is boring.
But I'm bored to death by all the über-plane whining. At that comes mainly from late44-plane lovers...
Which makes 44 the least appealing time frame to me...
*****
Not true...that comes from certain types of dogfight whiners. The folks who fly around at 500m in turn fights with their flaps set to landing and their cannons blazing away. They don't care about the planes...they just want WWII as far as it will go so they have the "best plane".

Real late 1944 plane lovers are generally the same folks who are interested in the boom and zoom energy style of aerial warfare and the introduction of tactical support for the Allied armies.

You should decide what interests you...don't let others make that decision for you. I love Spitfires, and Focke Wulfs, and the whole Hawker line of aircraft although my real favourite is the Tempest for its incredible engineering and history. For second place the Typhoon...which was felt most during 1944 with the Cab Rank style bombardment system with RP and bomb loadouts. Its not about uber...its about history.

Dtools4fools
08-13-2006, 07:05 AM
Not true...

???

How would you know? I still am bored to death of exact that virtual pilot type you describe...

And yes, I do make my own decisions in what I like. Cr@p planes... with puny guns... Flying those against similar cr@p planes you see much less complaints because those guys simply know and accept the fact that their ride wasn't "über".

VW-IceFire
08-13-2006, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Not true...

???

How would you know? I still am bored to death of exact that virtual pilot type you describe...

And yes, I do make my own decisions in what I like. Cr@p planes... with puny guns... Flying those against similar cr@p planes you see much less complaints because those guys simply know and accept the fact that their ride wasn't "über". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well your making a generalization about the community and where the complaints come from and I believe your assertion to not be true. Thus my statement which I feel to be far more precise.

I think **** planes (tm) are absolutely wonderful. I have a great time on UK-Dedicated when we do the Finish Winter War (with a few liberties). We've got TB-3s with the SPB I-16s attached under the wing, the Brewster B-239s, Hurricane Mark Is, I-153s...its fantastic. Love that scenario. Thing is we still have people complaining about the uber biplanes and how their monoplanes can't turn with them and such garbage. Its going to happen no matter which theater we simulate.

Again...its what you make of it. 1944 is very much not a boring scenario in my mind and I disagree with people who think that it is purely because its some sort of "uberplane fest" which, if its done properly, then its not. Its exactly the same as the early **** planes...just with different speeds and varrying amounts of firepower. The techniques, tactics and methods are all essentially the same...just at a different tempo.

I respect that you may not have an interest in that area...but I do not agree with the statement that people who like that time period are all whiners who want the uberplane. The two are separate concepts.

actionhank1786
08-13-2006, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I don't really grasp the point of a "1946" add-on which gives the Luftwaffe and Sovs advanced equipment but leaves the Western Allies without even the best late-war Spitfire, and only the YP-80 to defend against the high-tech onslaught. My biggest criticism of the Maddox method to approaching aircraft collections is that they are notoriously unsystematic and haphazard.

Leitmotiv, you also have to keep in mind that the 1946 add-on was never supposed to see the light of day other than in the Russian version, hence the pretty little man in my sig demanding it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dtools4fools
08-13-2006, 12:48 PM
Posted Fri August 11 2006 07:50
It's not that I think 1944 is boring.
But I'm bored to death by all the über-plane whining. At that comes mainly from late44-plane lovers..


First I said that I DON'T think 44 is boring.

Then I said that the whining comes mainly from latet44-uberplane lovers.
And I stand by that. Most whines are about P-47's P-51'2, Superspits and Focke-Wulfiges, etc.
Not from Gladiator jocks or from p-40 lovers...

And if I say most whining comes from those folks it does not neccessarily mean that all 44 flyers are whiners. Of course not. It just means what I explained above. Or at least that was its intention.

*****

Xiolablu3
08-15-2006, 12:51 PM
This game is really about the Russian front adn the PTO.

We are just lucky to have the Western front aircraft that we have right now.

The Meteor was only really better thant he Me262 at slow speed manouvres, not terribly important for a fast jet fighter. Although it would obviously do better than the prop foighters vs the Me26, so it would still be a good addition.

Maybe for the Storm Of War series we willg et one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
08-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted Fri August 11 2006 07:50
It's not that I think 1944 is boring.
But I'm bored to death by all the über-plane whining. At that comes mainly from late44-plane lovers..


First I said that I DON'T think 44 is boring.

Then I said that the whining comes mainly from latet44-uberplane lovers.
And I stand by that. Most whines are about P-47's P-51'2, Superspits and Focke-Wulfiges, etc.
Not from Gladiator jocks or from p-40 lovers...

And if I say most whining comes from those folks it does not neccessarily mean that all 44 flyers are whiners. Of course not. It just means what I explained above. Or at least that was its intention.

***** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most of those whines come from people who don't care about the year or the time period or the history or the complex events taking place. They just want the best whatever it is...if they were playing Raven Shield they'd be using the FAMAS rifle and asking for a better FAMAS all the time.

(I realize I'm comparing to another game...but I think thats what those people are about...the best in the game and they care for little else)

I love 1944 planes...I think the style of combat is fantastic. Its very fast and resolved very quickly through sheer power. There's alot of precision engineering in the late war aircraft as well which interests me greatly. But I'm not one of those folks who wants an uber everything. I want what they actually used in the war and nothing else.

Just clearng up my point of view. I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. I just don't want to be part of a labeled group and feel it necessary to point out that there are more than just a select bunch of whiners.

Probably best to put that one to pasture.

I echo Xiola's thoughts. Perhaps in Storm of War we'll do the June 1944 to April 1945 part completely and correctly with all types of aircrafts used (from L4 Pipers to Gloster Meteors).

darkhorizon11
08-15-2006, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:


The Meteor basically had two roles: V-1 Chaser and Ground Attack aircraft. The RAF limited its combat engagements to actions near friendly lines so as not to allow the possibility of a Meteor being lost and captured by the enemy. A flight of Meteors actually sighted and prepared to engage Me-262's until Mustangs broke up the gathering attack by mistaking the Meteors for the German jets.

It'd still be nice to see it...limitations and all.

I dunno about that story, I've heard a similar version except this time it was FW-190s they spotted and they were cut off by Spitfires that mistook them for Me262s...

I don't have a link so I can't say yay or nay but it might even be just a rumor.