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View Full Version : FM of P39 is too good in high altitude???



XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:06 AM
P39N hasnt got supercharge but it can fight perfectly vs a 109 G2 at 7000 meters, it is ok????. Same for P39Q1 and P39Q10.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:06 AM
P39N hasnt got supercharge but it can fight perfectly vs a 109 G2 at 7000 meters, it is ok????. Same for P39Q1 and P39Q10.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:13 AM
hmmm i dont know about that. i cant take it above 3500 without a loss of performance

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 12:28 PM
In a climb a P-39Q-10 stayed fairly close to me in my D-9 all the way up to 7000+ meters.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Your test must be pure offwhine AI vs AI or pure onwhine Humanoid vs Humanoid.

I thought this was standard procedure stuff now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:49 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- Your test must be pure offwhine AI vs AI or pure
- onwhine Humanoid vs Humanoid.
-
- I thought this was standard procedure stuff now.


Shouldn't AI get an realistic FM by now? How much time it will pass until that will happen?


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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:52 PM
robban75 wrote:
- In a climb a P-39Q-10 stayed fairly close to me in
- my D-9 all the way up to 7000+ meters.


Ur nuts!

prove it or you are full of it...

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 03:00 PM
Dunno Huck. What could be done to test AI is to set up a FMB (I know you don't like that) and setup AI plane X chasing enemy plane Y. You follow in player plane X and see if you keep up with freindly AI plane X in its chase of enemy. Just a thought.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 03:09 PM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
- P39N hasnt got supercharge but it can fight
- perfectly vs a 109 G2 at 7000 meters, it is ok????.
- Same for P39Q1 and P39Q10.


I fly the P-39, P-47, La7, La5 and BF109K4. When your in the 39 and climb up to 4000m she handles well at that alt. Once you get up to 6000m the P-39's perfromance drops. I havent tride df at 7000m and dont think i ever will. Last time i climbed up 6500m she handled like a tone of bricks.

Was your fuel Mix set properly? Try using only 40 or 60% when at that alt and listen to your engine.




Message Edited on 09/07/0302:11PM by VF_310thSilent

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:10 PM
Fuel mix? you can't change fuel mix in the Cobra..



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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:14 PM
I think Silent was refering to his G6 fuel mix.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:53 PM
Shifty101 wrote:
- I think Silent was refering to his G6 fuel mix.
-
- <img
- src="http://www.geocities.com/agrill101/Sig.jpg.txt"

Yes Shifty101 i was, im sorry if i wasn't clear enough.

Also if the BF109 is flown right then a P-39 shouln't be able to cach up to it, unless the P-39 has hight alt, like say 1000m more then the BF.

But thats another story.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:58 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- Fuel mix? you can't change fuel mix in the Cobra..

I know Vipez, it's one of the main plane i fly.

Actualy i was refering to the BF109. I was trying to give SG1_Blaj a sugestion.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:35 PM
To SG1_Blaj:



Also do not turn fight with the P-39 if your flying a BF or FW. If the guy in the P-39 knows what he is doing you will get yourself shot down.

Try and keep your E.

Lets say your in a BF109 and you go head on with a P-39. When you pass him and try to get on his six, in about three turns he will be on your six. Hence just keep flying staight and 100% throttle with some web. Mayby even go into a slight dive to gain even more speed. Then start climbing a bit, but only slightly. You want to keep your E.

Mean while the P-39 will pull on the stick and try and get on your six, but he just lost some E doing so. He has no chance in hell of caching up. Unless he was 1000m higher then you when you went head one with him. Thats another story altogether.

Back to you in the BF. Now that your going faster then the P-39 and you are gaining more alt, whait till you atleast oh i dont know, lets say 2km. Then turn or pull on the stick untill your upside down, then roll over so that your upside right. You should then have even more alt. Then pick up some speed, and engage him.


Well, thats all the advice i can give. Im still lurnig to.


Good luck...

Silent out...

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:40 PM
The P-39 has a supercharger. It just doesn't have a second stage supercharger like the P-63.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:48 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- robban75 wrote:
-- In a climb a P-39Q-10 stayed fairly close to me in
-- my D-9 all the way up to 7000+ meters.
-
-
- Ur nuts!
-
- prove it or you are full of it...
-
-

Try it yourself, it's not hard.



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'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:10 PM
robban75 wrote:
-
- VF_310thSilent wrote:
-- robban75 wrote:
--- In a climb a P-39Q-10 stayed fairly close to me in
--- my D-9 all the way up to 7000+ meters.
--
--
-- Ur nuts!
--
-- prove it or you are full of it...
--
--
-
- Try it yourself, it's not hard.

Well for one thing, i dont think you know how to fly the FWD9 properly.

I have went up against guy's in FW and have shot them down in a P-39 because they are inexperianced.

I have also engaged guy's who where experianced, and the only time i win against them is headon. I have tride to follow the guys who no what there doing and it's not possible.

Unless i have alt advanatge.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:20 PM
P-39Q-10 seems to perform just fine at 9000m. Won't manuver as well sure, and it won't catch a Fw-190A9, but I don't notice a whole lot of problems with it up there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:30 PM
Olegs data for P-39........Service ceiling: 9,784m.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:43 PM
& it´s harder (like all other planes) to flatspin. I thought the Cobra was a mean & dangerous flatspinner in RL.

S!

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:53 PM
The Alison engines on the the P-39s had a superchager just it was a two stage-single speed or single stage-two speed.

That will effect the planes performance at high altitude and at about 12,000 ft the engine should start starving for air and this gets worse the higher you go.. But that altitude sounds about right, just not the performce, its not a Russian inline.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:37 PM
M0NS wrote:
- & it´s harder (like all other planes) to flatspin. I
- thought the Cobra was a mean & dangerous flatspinner
- in RL.
-
- S!
-
- M0NS


I guess it would depend on which one your talking about.


You have to remember that the US version and the Soviot version may have looked the same but they did not fly the same.

The Us version had more armore, it was heaver and was off balance.

The Soviot version was lighter, it had less armore and was balanced.

In the eastern front the P-39 was an exselant plane.... At low alt.


try the internet for more detailed information.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:47 PM
If you test the P-39 climb rate to 6100m, you will note that is exceeds the oject viewer specs considerably.

It was the same in I.1B, to a greater extent. In 1.1F the P-39 climb performance was reduced, but still exceeds its climb to 6100m by over 1 minute.

Hopefully be changed in 1.11 so I can fly it with a straight face again.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:51 PM
Message Edited on 09/07/0307:57PM by VF_310thSilent

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 09:12 PM
just remember guys, not that I'm complaining, but the P-39 is a bit overmodeled right now, nothing to worry about, when you get on its six, put a few bullets in the engine, just remember, it's behind the cockpit. The engine is a weakspot on those planes.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:14 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:

-
- I guess it would depend on which one your talking
- about.
-
-
- You have to remember that the US version and the
- Soviot version may have looked the same but they did
- not fly the same.
-
- The Us version had more armore, it was heaver and
- was off balance.
-
- The Soviot version was lighter, it had less armore
- and was balanced.
-

I don't know if you saw my ealier post Silent, but, even if all the P-39 armor was removed the difference in power to weight ratio is small.
"Gear Box: 70.74
Cabin: 10.91
Fumetight Bulkhead: 27:00
Turnover Bulkhead: 14.90
Oil Tank: 28.79
Forward Armored Glass: 28.79
Aft Armored Glass: 44.17

If the Soviets removed all of the armor, the total weight savings would be 197.04lbs. This would reduce gross weight from 7600 lbs. to 7400 lbs. Power to weight ratio would be increased from .157 (HP/lbs.) to .162.

For comparison, the Bf109F4 power to weight ration was .209 (1,300 hp/6,220 lbs.) and the Fw190A4 ratio was .195 (1700 hp/8700 lbs.). Therfore the 109F4 had a 29% better power to weight ratio than the P-39N1 with all armor removed."


I'm started to think this "Soviet Cobra" is becoming a mythical figure.

Silent, do you really thing the P-39's climb ability relative to the 109 is correct? The P-39 was a great fighter at low altitudes,the Soviets proved that, but it was now match for 109 in a climb. Unfortunatley, in FB it is. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Are we going to throw history out the window to keep an advantage in DF servers? A P-39 pilot should have to scrape and claw for energy advantage, just like Pokryshkin had to. It was a aircraft that required good piloting and good tactics to be succesful.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:17 PM
Actualy i was repling to MONS.

I wasn't talking about climb rate.

I was taking about how the Soviots took the P-39 and turned it into a good plane, i mean when they were done with it it was balanced and ligher. Hence, the voilent spin it had was basicauly gone.

Now im not shure but i think the Soviots replaced the engine that was origanaly in it. Im not saying it could out climb the BF109. We know the BF109 had quit a bit of horse power.

And from some testes people have done, we know the P-39 is slightly over MD in it's climb raight. But not by much, in the 1.1F patch. Also the roll rate seemed to be a little slower to. Also i noticed that in 1.1F the P-39 bleeds more E when turnig.


But people keep saying how it is a UFO it cot up to me in a climb and stuff like that. But you can cach people in a climb with it, if you have an alt advantage. I mean the worst thing to do if you cant turn with it is pull on stick to do a mellimon or what ever u call it lol. Or climb period if the P39 has an alt advantage. The P-39 will cach up any way.

Im done lol

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:29 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- Actualy i was repling to MONS.
-
- I wasn't talking about climb rate.
-
- I was taking about how the Soviots took the P-39 and
- turned it into a good plane, i mean when they were
- done with it it was balanced and ligher. Hence, the
- voilent spin it had was basicauly gone.
-
- Now im not shure but i think the Soviots replaced
- the engine that was origanaly in it. Im not saying
- it could out climb the BF109. We know the BF109 had
- quit a bit of horse power.
-
- And from some testes people have done, we know the
- P-39 is slightly over MD in it's climb raight. But
- not by much, in the 1.1F patch. Also the roll rate
- seemed to be a little slower to. Also i noticed that
- in 1.1F the P-39 bleeds more E when turnig.
-
-
- But people keep saying how it is a UFO it cot up to
- me in a climb and stuff like that. But you can cach
- people in a climb with it, if you have an alt
- advantage. I mean the worst thing to do if you cant
- turn with it is pull on stick to do a mellimon or
- what ever u call it lol. Or climb period if the P39
- has an alt advantage. The P-39 will cach up any way.
-
- Im done lol


What people are talking about is the P-39's climb from a low E-state and lack of E-bleed in turning maneuvers.

Where is your evidence of the Soviets "balancing" the P-39 to make it spin proof? And no, the Soviet P-39s flew with American Allisons. As I was saying we are starting to see a new myth in the creation, the "Sovietised P-39".

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:31 PM
Try a P-39Q-10 vs AI P-39Q-10. There is a distinct difference.

Once you see it, switch your plane over to Autpilot and let it fight that way. You'll see the difference.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:34 PM
SkyChimp,

What is your complete opinion of the way the Cobra is modeled?

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:38 PM
why dont people look up the spec before they post!

p39n1
sealevel 500kmh
3500 605 kmh
p39Q1
sealevel 520 kmh
3500 ____616 kmh
p39Q10
sealevel 540 kmh
3500_____640 kmh


BF109 E4
SL 470kmh
5000m 546kmh

BF109 F2
SL 515 kmh
5100m 615

BF109F4
SL 520
6000m 635

BF109G2
SL 535 kmh
7000 m 666kmh

BF109 K4
SL 580
6000m 710kmh

so at mid altitudes the p39 would be close to the speed of 109s around the 3500 meter mark

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 04:05 AM
Where do we go to look up the spec?

I'd love to have some charts that showed the performance of the sim aircraft.

I dont think the sim has to be identical in tested performance to the charts from the War. Close will do..