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View Full Version : Muzzle flash, anyway to tone it down?



XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 05:35 PM
Im blind , Im blind.
I like the weapons flash but geees!,i think some of these planes "mostly german" are overdone with the blinding fire that comes from the end of the guns. Ya have to get so close to a bogey to see if your gonna hit him. Any lil tweak to make the flash less "flashy"?..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes it looks great etc. but before i go for the kill i'd like to atleast have my eyesight....../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

=swiv=

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 05:35 PM
Im blind , Im blind.
I like the weapons flash but geees!,i think some of these planes "mostly german" are overdone with the blinding fire that comes from the end of the guns. Ya have to get so close to a bogey to see if your gonna hit him. Any lil tweak to make the flash less "flashy"?..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes it looks great etc. but before i go for the kill i'd like to atleast have my eyesight....../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

=swiv=

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 05:56 PM
GERMAN planes have Tinted Reticle dimmer ucan just turn it on. ITS CTRL+D by defailt /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 06:36 PM
oleg86 wrote:
- GERMAN planes have Tinted Reticle dimmer ucan just
- turn it on. ITS CTRL+D by defailt

I don't think this would help much with muzzle flash. Zooming into the sun? That's a different story.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/Yak3M.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 06:38 PM
I was flying a NachtHexen mission with my squad leader lastr night. Muzzle flashes are blinding!!!



http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 06:54 PM
Heh try the k4 with 3 mk 108 cannons that light my hole room up /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/hurricane_01sm~0.JPG
We have whiners about the patch, then whiners whining about the whiners about the patch.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:05 PM
oleg already posted on the forum saying that will not be changed.....even tough thousands of us have already requested that....

<html>
http://www.socalsportbikes.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=2000&aid=3815
</html>

"I like Boobies" - Me

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:06 PM
Yep the muzzle flashes are WAY overdone. Ever seen a real muzzle flash ?

I fired 7.62x51 MG3 and in daylight, you cant even see the flash. At night, it produces yellow blinks NOT 3 metres long cones of fire with a diameter of 50cm.

Especially german weapons, which were built with less tolerance ( = useless burning of gunpowder in front of the gun) should produce much less flash.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:12 PM
m3pedro wrote swiftly:




"oleg already posted on the forum saying that will not be changed.....even tough thousands of us have already requested that...."


But why would Olegg do that? Unless that`s how it was. I don`t care if billions of people requested it. If it keeps to the reality it shouldn`t be changed.

Otherwise thousands of people could request that the I16 be turned into a fluffy pink rabbit and Olegg would have to do it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:25 PM
When I was in the army we had a night training one night(obvious duh).Anyway,the sergant was going to show how ciggarett smoking is gonna give away your position, so he ran away 40-50 meters and lit it.The other Officer a Leutenant said -See how easy you´re spotted now".We said -We can´t see a thing,no light what so ever.The Leutenant said -There is a light and you will see it!.We said -Ok..........eh,topic related,maybe not,just came up in my mind reading about muzzle flashes.



http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p464d9f2e777d7ba7823fe8f98b1e9ad2/fb9a505e.jpg



Message Edited on 07/22/0306:28PM by Superluminal

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:32 PM
I'd agree with M3Pedro if I wasn't so distracted by his ummmm... bouncy... sig

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:40 PM
No need to talk about those muzzle flashes again,everybody knows that they are a JOKE (a bad one ).



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:48 PM
m3pedro wrote:
- oleg already posted on the forum saying that will
- not be changed.....even tough thousands of us have
- already requested that....

There are numerous things (example: trim) That Oleg is stubborn about. Don't worry about what he says. Just keep posting stuff in his ready room until he "gets it".

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:50 PM
I'm not sure why Oleg has taken the stance on the muzzle flashes that he has. In daylight, they shouldn't completely obscure your target the way they do. They are by far the worst part of flying with the cockpit on.

They're a silly, and out-of-place aspect of an otherwise fine sim.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/rcafpost.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:10 PM
I agree.... muzzle flashes are way overdone... the flames that come out are so freaking huge. And the Tracer rounds are rather childish adn arcadish... brigght green, bright red.. geez

watch some guncameras ( even colored ones from USAF ) and you will see that the tracer traveled like a worm with its tail dancing windly ( cuz of wind ), the color is some sort of light yellow.

In no way similar to what we see in IL2, except for the smoke.



*!*

Major Pedro
www.jzg23.de (http://www.jzg23.de)

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:20 PM
I am playing Star wars Galaxies and when I get into a laser gun fight it's alot like IL2/FB. If anybody else is playing this they know what I'm talking about.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:44 PM
Look here to see the flash of a 20mm AA canon:

http://www.pbase.com/image/17495263

(the light line is only visible on the pic, not in real life)

http://www.pbase.com/image/17495339

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:46 PM
JUST let that muzzel FLASH alone, its not going to be fixed anyway/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif !!!!!!!!BUT MANY OTHER THINGS DO/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:58 PM
I asked Oleg if he ever saw the TV show "12 O'clock High". He, nor anyone else, from 1C/Maddox ever answered./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

In a recent show there was a shot of a P-51, taken near and slightly lower than the port wing, in which one saw a small flash at the muzzle and a larger >>>very<<< faint and translucent flash. Through the larger flash one could still see details on the forward fuselage quite clearly.

There has also been shots of attacking LW fighters but whether they were firing or not, one can tell.

Note, "12 Oclock High" shows actual war time film footage.

This is another case of 'Oleg, you is wrong', just like the modelling of lower windshield frame of the Fw. We are stuck with both./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 10:10 PM
SeaFireLIV wrote:
- m3pedro wrote swiftly:

-
- "oleg already posted on the forum saying that will
- not be changed.....even tough thousands of us have
- already requested that...."
-
-
- But why would Olegg do that? Unless that`s how it
- was. I don`t care if billions of people requested
- it. If it keeps to the reality it shouldn`t be
- changed.

When this subject came up before it was determined by both pilot accounts and by accounts of people presently in the military who have fired such weapons that the muzzle flash is not visable or barely visable in daylight. Not some huge blinding flame. Night is a different story. Apparently it could be quite blinding when one's eyes were used to the dark.

Why, with all the attention to realistic detail in this sim, this is so is baffling.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 10:24 PM
JZG-Pedro wrote:
- I agree.... muzzle flashes are way overdone... the
- flames that come out are so freaking huge. And the
- Tracer rounds are rather childish adn arcadish...
- brigght green, bright red.. geez
-
- watch some guncameras ( even colored ones from USAF
- ) and you will see that the tracer traveled like a
- worm with its tail dancing windly ( cuz of wind ),
- the color is some sort of light yellow.
-
- In no way similar to what we see in IL2, except for
- the smoke.
-
-
-
-
- *!*
-
- Major Pedro
- www.jzg23.de (http://www.jzg23.de)
-
-

The reason it looks like they are like a
- worm with its tail dancing windly ( cuz of wind ),
is not because of wind, it is because the camera is shaking. Also it seems that most of the US tracers were red, and the Russians have been using green tracers in their rifle caliber for a long time. Ask a Vietnam chopper pilot veteran if those green tracers were'nt bright. The only one that throws me off are the blue ones. The muzzle flash is a damn shame though. I seen some footage from B-17 crews of 109's attacking. You can tell they are firing because of the tiny wink of light when the cannon fires, I would imagine they are firing their MG's as well, but no muzzle flash what so ever. Really this was porked in IL-2 as well. The VVS planes at times were only a small visible dot with a huge flashing at the front at 1 or 2 km.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 10:24 PM
hi,
easy explaination:..it's marketing..
many 'Ross Joysticks' in Russia like 'Hollywood'
+ the 'Terminator'


RayBanJockey wrote:
- I am playing Star wars Galaxies and when I get into
- a laser gun fight it's alot like IL2/FB. If anybody
- else is playing this they know what I'm talking
- about.
-

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 10:27 PM
maybe he dont wanna change it because they can't bechanged... they're prolly hard-coded parts of the sim. it's not just Oleg being stubborn LOL

SJ

http://www.il2sturmovik.it

Visita il portale italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 10:53 PM
Yes, muzzle flash at night could be blinding. Credit Oleg for attempting the ultimate realism. Sadly he banged up on the false reality of video monitors.

The light given off by a muzzle flash does not change from night to day. What does change is the background light and the sensitivity of the human eye. This may amaze some, but the amount of light seen by a dark adapted eye is *billions* of times less then the light seen under clear sky sunlit landscape or sky. Computer monitors/video cards cannot model this vast difference. If they could, the rather realistic night muzzle flash we see would be totally drowned out by the background light as they are in real life.

To make up for this failure of rendering such a range of background lighting, Oleg should artificially reduce the amount of light given off by muzzle flash when sun is above horizon. A fair compromise. As it is now, the muzzle flash may be Full Real for both night and day, just the computer equipment we use is a fake.

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 01:31 AM
I believe Oleg said the flashes were modelled as seen at night.

How much night flying is done in Il2/FB?

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg


http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 03:16 AM
How is that game, thinking of buying it...Can u fly ships in it?.Im a big SW fan, but it looks weird.



RayBanJockey wrote:
- I am playing Star wars Galaxies and when I get into
- a laser gun fight it's alot like IL2/FB. If anybody
- else is playing this they know what I'm talking
- about.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)



=swiv=

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 03:42 AM
Gun flash seems to be toned down in beta 08 /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 04:00 AM
"Gun flash seems to be toned down in beta 08"

I disagree. That was the first thing I checked.

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 05:00 AM
"The reason it looks like they are like a
- worm with its tail dancing windly ( cuz of wind ),
is not because of wind, it is because the camera is shaking. Also it seems that most of the US tracers were red, and the Russians have been using green tracers in their rifle caliber for a long time. Ask a Vietnam chopper pilot veteran if those green tracers were'nt bright. The only one that throws me off are the blue ones. The muzzle flash is a damn shame though. I seen some footage from B-17 crews of 109's attacking. You can tell they are firing because of the tiny wink of light when the cannon fires, I would imagine they are firing their MG's as well, but no muzzle flash what so ever. Really this was porked in IL-2 as well. The VVS planes at times were only a small visible dot with a huge flashing at the front at 1 or 2 km.


You are both wrong!!! Not being a smarta$$ or anything but I have fired tracer rounds at night before. My brother had bought some 5.56.mm (.223 Remington ) tracer rounds at a gun show and were were walking back from the woods on the farm I grew up on. We both had AR-15 assault rifles and he wanted to see what it was like to shoot them, since it was past dusk. We fired some into a hillside about 400 yards distance and his were "wobbly" like in gum cam footage but mine were usually very stable. It has more to do with vibrations in the barrels causing projectile instability or maybe in some cases the guns they were firing in their fighter planes had gotten hot barrels from firing a lot, causing the instability. Or maybe some their barrels were simply better than others. By the way, it was calm that night and we were looking at them with our eyes, not shaking cameras, but wobbles from his fired rounds were still observed. Also I noticed no muzzle flash, but 5.56 round is very small caliber too. High velocity but low power. They are only .22 caliber really.

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 05:20 AM
The flashes seem proper, IF the plane was stationary testing its guns.. But if you've ever seen the muzzle flashes in a plane flying at 300MPH they are DRAMATICALLY less obvious because of the dampening headwind..

They are too opaque, and too large to be realistic for a plane in motion....