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Monson74
09-09-2005, 03:29 AM
Gentlemen, I need your help here - I'm building some semi-historical SP & DF missions with the MT map & I'm looking for info on which Spitfire marks served in the Med & when.

Any help much appreciated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

John_Stag
09-09-2005, 05:01 AM
Roughly, Spitfire I/II up to late '41, V up to 1944, VIII and IX to the end of the war.

tomtheyak
09-09-2005, 06:03 AM
First spits in the Med were MkVb tropicals - but these can be represented by the two cannon Vc.
To correct john_stag, no mkI/IIs made it out. The first Spits were Vbs launched from the HMS Eagle on the 7th March 1942 (Operation Spotter) sent to Malta when it became clear that the Hurri's were being overwhelmed by the superior Bf109Fs based in Sicily.
MkIXs were first used in the North African desert to combat the appearance of the Fw190 during early 1943, witha progressive build up of both RAF and USAAf units with this variant.
The MkVIII first arrived in theatre in Malta to 145 Sqn, operational June 1943.

Hope this helps!

Monson74
09-09-2005, 06:26 AM
Thx m8s - this does help me - the internet could not! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But the IX was an earlier version than the C-model (1943) that we have in the game, right?

p1ngu666
09-09-2005, 09:44 AM
probably, the HF *might* be a better match than the LF to the orignal F IX

SlickStick
09-09-2005, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Monson74:
Thx m8s - this does help me - the internet could not! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But the IX was an earlier version than the C-model (1943) that we have in the game, right?

IceFire should be along shortly to fill in any gaps, but I'm pretty sure the first Mk. IXs were C versions with 4 - .303s and 2 - 20mm Hispanos. The universal E-wing came a little later.

Here's a few Spitfire links for information that I have been collecting recently:

Spits 1 (http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/whatmark.htm)

Spits 2 (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html)

Spits 3 (http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/spithome.htm)

tomtheyak
09-09-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Monson74:
Thx m8s - this does help me - the internet could not! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But the IX was an earlier version than the C-model (1943) that we have in the game, right?

Yeah, that's correct - early MkIXs had a small carb intake much the same (identical?) to the V, no pointed rudder and can also be I.D.'d by the large bulges over the cannon magazine again identical to the V. This was cos the IX was simply a V airframe with the the minimum modifications necessary to adapt it to the merlin 60 series. The VIII was supposed to be the definitive version with properly strengthened airframe and various mods to improve it. the large carb filter appeared in late 43 (i think) as standard feature. it enabled the filter to be switched in and out at will thus simplyfying allocation to theatres.

I've always wondered why Gibbage chose to model the tall tail version since 95% of IXs (or so i'm led to believe) didn't have em. Maybe it's an FM thing - perhaps Oleg decided that that little more rudder area made it easier to control. Not that I'm complaining - best IX model i've seen in any game, period!

SlickStick
09-09-2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monson74:
Thx m8s - this does help me - the internet could not! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But the IX was an earlier version than the C-model (1943) that we have in the game, right?

Yeah, that's correct - early MkIXs had a small carb intake much the same (identical?) to the V, no pointed rudder and can also be I.D.'d by the large bulges over the cannon magazine again identical to the V. This was cos the IX was simply a V airframe with the the minimum modifications necessary to adapt it to the merlin 60 series. The VIII was supposed to be the definitive version with properly strengthened airframe and various mods to improve it. the large carb filter appeared in late 43 (i think) as standard feature. it enabled the filter to be switched in and out at will thus simplyfying allocation to theatres.

I've always wondered why Gibbage chose to model the tall tail version since 95% of IXs (or so i'm led to believe) didn't have em. Maybe it's an FM thing - perhaps Oleg decided that that little more rudder area made it easier to control. Not that I'm complaining - best IX model i've seen in any game, period! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love the Mk. VIII we have. I prefer it over the Mk. IX. A very nice-looking 3D model. The design included a more aerodynamic chin air filter than previous tropical versions, retractable tail wheel and pointed rudder. My favorite PF ride, preferably the CW version for 1-3km altitude, but I use the non-clipped version for the vertical game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

wayno7777
09-09-2005, 01:05 PM
Thx for the links, SlickStick. I only had one of them.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-10-2005, 12:51 AM
The first Spitfire VBs were delivered to Malta in Operation Spotter on March 7 1942. 16 were launched of the deck of HMS Eagle, 1 aborted on takeoff and the 15 that got airborne made it to Malta. They first saw action on March 10th.

Between March 7 and October 24, 1942 a total of 385 Spitfire Vs were launched from HMS Eagle, HMS Furious and the USS Wasp.

The first Spitfire V squadrons to arrive in Nth Africa were No 92 and No 145 squadrons, in April of 1942. Due to the circutous route the planes took in getting to Egypt neither squadron had a full complement until May of that year. No 92 began operation in August and scored more than 15 kills before the end of the month.

7 Spitfire V squadrons, Nos 72, 81, 93, 111, 152, 154 and 242, flew cover for Operation Torch in early Nocember 1942.

The first Spitfire IX squadron in the Meditteranean was No 72 squadron in Tunisia, who went into action on 31 January, 1943.

The Mk VIII first saw service with Malta based units, No 145 squadron becoming active in June, 1943.

Monson74
09-10-2005, 03:12 AM
Thx guys - you rule! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Still a little confused about the V-models. We have the Vb & two Vcs in the game. Some sources say the Vb was the first to make it to the MTO (Malta) but most pictures show Vc models with two cannons. Appearently they were sent out as four cannon versions but were converted in the field to two cannons & four mgs - is this correct? Also I've noticed that the Vc has twice the amount of cannon ammo as the Vb. Ok - if I'm going to make an early "Malta-scenario" wouldn't it be better to pick the Vb?

VW-IceFire
09-10-2005, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Monson74:
Thx guys - you rule! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Still a little confused about the V-models. We have the Vb & two Vcs in the game. Some sources say the Vb was the first to make it to the MTO (Malta) but most pictures show Vc models with two cannons. Appearently they were sent out as four cannon versions but were converted in the field to two cannons & four mgs - is this correct? Also I've noticed that the Vc has twice the amount of cannon ammo as the Vb. Ok - if I'm going to make an early "Malta-scenario" wouldn't it be better to pick the Vb?
*waves to everyone*

I like Spitfire threads http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To my knowledge, the first of the Spitfires delivered to Malta were done so by carrier (USS Wasp and HMS Eagle I believe). After some fairly serious problems, they managed to fit the Spitfires with large ferry fuel tanks called "slip tanks". You'll see them on the VIII and IX models in-game. Sadly not on the Vc's. In anycase...the Spitfires they were first delivering were Mark Vc Tropical. That is, with the large Volkes airfilter on the front (which was later replaced by the locally produced Aboukir filter).

So most of the early Spitfires at Malta had 4 cannons. Many of these had their 4 cannons stripped to 2 cannons with no machine gun armament. With that practice inplace, most of the other Vc's produced and all of the later Spitfires with C type wings were fitted with 2x20mm and 4x.303. So basically you have a gap between early Vc and the Mark 21 where there were no production model Spitfires with 4 cannons.

So if you're doing a series of Malta missions...the Vc with 4 cannons should be the most common variant at the start. If the campaign progresses then the Vc with 2 cannons would show up later and then finally the a small number of IX's and quite a few VIII's in late 1943 and 1944.

If your choosing between VIII and IX...choose the VIII for a desert/italy campaign. Although the VIII was better than the IX, the IX was holding its own in the skies over Europe and so the decision was to send the vast majority of VIII's to tropical locations.

Thats why the VIII flew with the RAAF in the Pacific and the RAF in the Med and China-Burma-India theaters and generally not in the European theater.

You'll notice that the VIII essentially uses what came out of the Aboukir filter...which is a much more streamlined airfilter located under the engine just forward of the leading edges of the wing. Its larger than the Mark Vb's (which in-game is not tropicalized) air filter.

SlickStick
09-10-2005, 08:30 AM
Mmmmmm......Mk VIII

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/grottoboy/homer_simpson_drool.jpg

The Vc is an a*s*s kicker, too. Give me any plane with four hispanos and I'm sound as a pound. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Monson74
09-10-2005, 08:37 AM
Thx IceFire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It'll be Vcs for a start then - we only need the prop & hood fixed then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Thx everyone - that'll be all for now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif