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MudMarine3
06-30-2006, 03:57 PM
~S~
To all,
I am interested in building my ouwn rudder peddles using a joystick. To strat my project I have purchased a cheap joystick for $20 US at local Walmart. Other stores are asking $25 to $35 for thier cheapest joystick, Mostly Logitech designs. For those of my fellow Sim pilots who use the Saitek ST290 Pro, please forgive me. That is the joystick that will be used in my conversion. At least it is the same make as my x52. Seems right keeping it in the family. So if any ST290 jocks out there who gets that itch ya can't scratch, that is me taking appart ya favorite rig.

The next part is design. I say some interesting designs at Flightsims.com.
They do not fit my need right now. In one of my previous posts in the help community some one linked me to past posts on this matter. I say
F19_Orheim's design. Iwant to see other designs out there that other Sim pilots are using. A good idea to post a picture of the rig. I hope to see some more resent designs. I need to get an idea what I am in for. Those factory jobs are nice but to costly for me right now.

Maybe a new forum section could be opened to discuss joysticks, flight controllers,rudder peddles,cockpit designs other control devices that are used in this Simulation.

The new section might be called the Rigger's Shop. Just an idea to centalize such issues.

JG52Uther
06-30-2006, 04:09 PM
Roll of drums.........
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/3821084134

dbillo
06-30-2006, 04:22 PM
MM3, it's not necessary to take the stick apart to make rudder pedals. There are lots of designs out there that just consist of hardware arranged to push the intact stick side to side. You just need some way of clamping the stick down, and some mechanism that translates your foot presses into stick movements.

Search the forum for "rudder pedals" (correct spelling) and you should find some threads with lots of pictures.

I made pedals using a Logitech Wingman Attack 2, and didn't do a thing to the original stick. I could pop it out and use as a joystick again in two minutes!

slo_1_2_3
06-30-2006, 06:04 PM
Anyone remember my pedals? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gifyou can make em outa junk like me. I wandered the yard for a bit and found some old plywood some boards some nails a hammer some other junk and a saw and in about 10 minutes I had working(ugly as roadkill) rudder pedals,but I'm more of a function over style kinda guy so it don't bother me none. Theres some pics floating around here somewhere I think.

rnzoli
07-01-2006, 01:43 AM
Anyone remember my pedals? you can make em outa junk like me

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes, slo, I remember, what a beauty it was http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
In fact it had a very positive effect on the potential builders: they no longer worried about complications or finishing touches...

Have you got the pics somewhere? Make sure you link your original thread to the stickied one in Tech Support forum!

triggerhappyfin
07-01-2006, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
Anyone remember my pedals? (ugly as roadkill)

Those set a new standard in uglyness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

No more refering to roadkills but slo's pedals.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

..as in: I met a chick last night, ugly as slo's pedals...

notamuppet
07-01-2006, 04:43 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by notamuppet:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MudMarine3:

F19_Orheim's design. [QUOTE]
Hello again Do you mean these?? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/notmuppet/rudder4.jpg

MudMarine3
07-01-2006, 06:57 AM
~S~
notamuppet,

Yes I do I like the design, looks sturdy. I would like to have the measurements of the parts. Hard to tell with out a measuring scale to comapre it with from a photo

notamuppet
07-01-2006, 08:07 AM
There is going to be a football match soon! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I will get back to you tomorrow. It is made from steel shelving, brackets and a TV swivel mount. The clever bit is the plastic pipe clip that rotates to allow the stick to be moved. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/notmuppet/PEDAL1.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/notmuppet/PEDAL2.jpg
more info tomorrow

slo_1_2_3
07-01-2006, 10:03 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif here are the ones we know we all love....
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/ped1.jpg http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/ped.jpg

Freelancer-1
07-01-2006, 11:48 AM
That's some talented woodworking skill, Slo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

LStarosta
07-01-2006, 01:13 PM
I would never bring that into my house.

Mackane1
07-01-2006, 02:19 PM
http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/colinclive%20copy.jpg

slo_1_2_3
07-01-2006, 03:15 PM
HEy if your a guy who can't aford anything then stuff has to do.

slipBall
07-01-2006, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif here are the ones we know we all love....



Nice, a shame to put your feet on them, you don't want to ruin the finish, the finish on your feet that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Have you gotten any wood splinters in your toes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
As long as they work, that's the important thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

p.s. you were told to clean up your room
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/ped1.jpg http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/ped.jpg

MudMarine3
07-01-2006, 05:34 PM
~S~,
Guys
I just finished my rudders Good thing a no fly day. Had the time to work on rudder project. There dione and functional. Found two old fiberboard shelves and one by two's that where an old bunk bed guard. I had some 2 inch wood screws and some others from past furnature projects that my wife had me put together. Other matterial I had was some varied lenghts of bungee cord hook tie-downs for centering.

Only cost, Saitek ST290 Pro joystick $20.00, 1/4 Three inch bolt, nut, 4 washers for piviot, pk of eight # 6 1-1/2 inch wood srews, 2 foot of white pine strep 3/4 by 1-1/2, 2 foot of 3/8 by 1-1/ pine strep for shimmimg and a pk of 1/2 pipe clamps $1.50. cost at 4ome Depot $5.00, High speed USB 4 port power hub $30.0. Total cost $56.50. If you minus the hub becasue it was an expence that would have been need for a factory rudder any way, $26.50.

Not pretty but functioning rudder peddles. Tried them out on that P40E , taxi and take-off. Before I get into that had to reprogram FB View Plus and some x52 stick assignments and rerigg controls with IL2-Stick. The n52 is ID1, ST290 is ID2 and x%2 is ID3. Thank God and Sim comunity for those tools. Results on taxi disasterios resutls three ground wrecks, one took out the tower.Over control of rudder. Rudder is very touchy. Also tried one take off, same results, nasty crash.

Well thats it, I have to learn to use the coverted peddles and that will take practice. After that had to do some minor work on peddle rig and adjustments.
That's it for now, sorry no pictures, I do not own a digital camera. I will post a drawing in the future.

MudMarine3
07-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Back to the drawin board. Shorting the actuator arm disaster. Can't grow back cut wood. Flaw in design the ancher point of the arm on the rudder bar. with screws or brackets comes lose after awhile and rudder becomes sloppy. The next atempt will be metal, using wall shelf metal streps. Like to use hinges on peddles with springs a centering and resistance. That I have figured out but how to link it to the control is another matter. I just might have to learn to chase electrons. I have the card from the control and one pot from the handle. Need to check other designs. Just another problem to over come. Good Lord has a sence of humor, saw that I need to be humbled. Well LOL!
Well the Ole Wright brothers must of had thier problems too. They made an airplane, I just want to convert a joystick. Trial and error! Now to get that graph paper out. Learned one lesson. Need to have design drawn out. have precise measurements, not do it on the fly.
I will first do a model first in balsa wood before going into production. A though just hit me maybe cheaper to buy tha dang things. $100.00 US at Amazon.com.

I still want to make a set to prove that I can do it. Will it will be done one piece at a time as the ole Johnny Cash song goes. I just might give up smoking to pay for them. Now that is a radical idea for a 30 year smoker!

FoolTrottel
07-04-2006, 10:25 AM
Need to check other designs

Side view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/PedalsSchematicSide.jpg

Top view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/PedalsSchematicTop.jpg

Top view with center-mechanism:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/PedalsSchematicTop2.jpg

This is what it can look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Pedals001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Pedals002.jpg

It was a development of this one, simple construction, but a bit too large:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/PedalsV2-01.jpg

These are my original ones, dating back to RB, Flying Corps and Dawn Patrol days...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Rudder1a.jpg

(Hey, I posted all of this just about two days ago, shortly before the forums went down ... guess they had to use some backup ... wonder if it'll happen again now... if so... here's the cause! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

notamuppet
07-04-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by MudMarine3:
That I have figured out but how to link it to the control is another matter.
Remove the grip and you could see a shaft. Use a plastic pipe clip that rotates as the stick moves and allows the clip to slide on the shaft.

MudMarine3
07-04-2006, 05:10 PM
FoolTrottel and notamuppet,

Thanks for the pictures again. What would be nice, exspecially with the first colored design, MEASUREMENTS. That is the problem with these designs. Also would like to know is how much pedle movement you get with each design.I found with my design I only got 4 inches. Hard to judge peddle pressure to use.

Another problem I have is with the rudder bar, rocking motion FWD and AFT. Also properly centering with bungee cord or springs.

My tools are limited just to the basics, hammer, screwdrivers, electric dril, hack saw, wood saw, miter box (cheap plastic. No work bench and work area is covered carport.

By the way the handle is removed. You can checkout my design I used:
http://flyenleatherneck.spaces.msn.com

FoolTrottel
07-05-2006, 12:10 AM
I found with my design I only got 4 inches. Hard to judge peddle pressure to use.

My pedals move 11 centimeters ...
The rudderbar moves 15 centimers ...

Measurements Rudder Pedals:
I'll limit this to the relevant numbers, so that's
A. the rectangle (light blue in my second drawing), from one pivot-point to another:
Left-Right: 37.5 cm
Top-Bottom: 21.5 cm
B. Lenght of 'actuator arm': 10 cm
C. Travel of stick from right to left: 3.5 cm

Bar:
A. Bar: 50 cm
B. Actuator arm ('Fork'): 19 cm
(note: complete length, including the part with which it's mounted to the bar)
C. Travel of stick (A Thrustmaster Predator TH 400, with it's handle!) 12 cm.

When looking at your design, me thinks the actuator arm is a bit long. Shortening it would give more travel on the pedals.(Have you checked the sensitivity settings for the pedals?)


rocking motion FWD and AFT
As in: It wobbles? That's always been my biggest problem to solve...
For the bar, I eventually used the ball bearings of the rear wheel of a VW Beetle...the inner part of the bearing is glued to a pvc-pipe, which is glued into the base plate. The outer part is fixed to the bar, by using for big screws tightly around it, then held together/pressed together by a 'clasp' (Dunno the exact word, here's and image:
http://www.aircontrolsrl.it/air_control_engl/immagini/popup/accessori/fascetta_nastro_mini.jpg

For the pedals I used large bolts, which are tightly fit and screwed into the base plate, so these do not turn. Large washers on top, next the bars, another washer, and a self-tightening bolt on top. (At first the bars I used were way to small in width, which made them instable.)

(This is all I have time for now... Just ask if ya need more info!)
Good Luck!

notamuppet
07-05-2006, 01:56 AM
Hello again.The travel on the pedal is 4" which is enough for me.pitch of the foot rest is 12.5" The connecting angle is 6.5" because thats how long the angle was when I bought it. The length of the connecting arm to the stick is 4". It was longer but gave too much travel. As for the wobble issue, Thats why I used the heavy duty TV swivel. I also used 2 washers between the angles and the main bars. I greased them before assembly and the bolts are not fully tightened. The connecting arm to the stick is made from a wall speaker mount but you could use T and 3" angle brackets. The higher it is the more travel of the stick. The self centering isnt great but I find that I dont need to improve it yet. Have fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

notamuppet
07-06-2006, 01:32 AM
I have measured the travel on the rudder pedals of a Hawker 800 series jet. the travel is 8" and the distance between the pedals is 10.5"

MudMarine3
07-06-2006, 04:11 PM
FoolTrottel and notamuppet,

Thanks for those measurements. Right now looking for a Lazy Susan to act as the base of rudder bar, like notamuppet's rig using that TV base. I first need to address that pedle rocken problem, need to have pedle movement more stable. This is the first issue I need to address in my design. I will find and vist a few swap mets in my area and see what I can find.

Another solution would be using drawer rails to slide the pedles. These then can push the rudder bar which activates the joystick actuating arm attached. People are allways throwing away old dressers. I will watch on trash day a see if I can salvage a dresser that is put out on the street for pick up.

In Radio Shake saw a set of plastic gearing. Thinking about using reduction gears. Small fixed gear on rudder bar moving a large rotating gear with actuator post attached on the center. Then attach an arm that goes to joystick stub. Rudder bar centered by springs, the movement of the smaller gear would allow for more pedle movement. Looking at a 4 to 1 ratio. 4 inches of pedle movement too small for me. I think I need at least 6 inches.
I feel like I am on a scavenger hunt looking for use full parts. Wish me luck.

FoolTrottel
07-06-2006, 11:32 PM
Good Luck! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Got any pictures to show?
Maybe someone can give you a tip on howto improve...

Slider rails might work, but you'll have to make very sure they are perfectly aligned, and me thinks you'll need to give the bar connecting them some play at the joints: otherwise they won't work smoothly (they'll be forced to move sideways a bit when pressed forward/backwards, as the distance of the joints of the connecting bar will vary!)

I've done some experimenting with this, and found my current design (large bolts fixed to base plate, with large washers and wide bars) the best. They are stable, and move w/o too much force.

Oh, and as for gearing, you can try, but I do know one very important thing in building these contraptions: try and keep it as simple as possible! Like, wouldn't shortening the 'actuator' bar allow for more pedal movement?

Have Fun!

triggerhappyfin
07-07-2006, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
HEy if your a guy who can't aford anything then stuff has to do.

That's the spirit, slo! Main thing is to enjoy your self and be creative. Keep it up! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

CMHQ_Rikimaru
07-07-2006, 02:40 AM
So here i come, with my uber rudder pedalshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I made them from my old wingman attack 3,and a bit wood... but hey, they still work, and i still use them, i cannot imagine flying without themhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9610/pict00102iy.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5258/uberorczykrikusia5bg.jpg

DIRTY-MAC
07-07-2006, 12:50 PM
he he this is some crazy stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

MudMarine3
07-07-2006, 02:56 PM
FoolTrottel,triggerhappyfin,CMHQ_Rikimaru, and DIRTY-MAC:

FoolTrottel:
<span class="ev_code_RED">(Oh, and as for gearing, you can try, but I do know one very important thing in building these contraptions: try and keep it as simple as possible! Like, wouldn't shortening the 'actuator' bar allow for more pedal movement?)</span> I will keep the KISS principle in mind. Found a 9 inche plastic shelf turntable, Thinking of botting it to the bottom of rudder between base and rudder bar. That should give stablility to rudder bar/pedles, thus taking care of that problem.

triggerhappyfin, Like your avatar, The name is Injun not slo, But my wife may agree with you, she claims that I am slow on the uptake.

CMHQ_Rikimaru: interesting design. Too many wires for me to deal with. I am no electron chaser. When dealing with electricity I am out of my depth.

DIRTY-MAC: Thanks for the comic relief.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">I want one bad! Gimme one! I need it!</span> Sorry, Haven problems of my own. If I can get the dang thing to work, I will post the design at my spaces at MSN.

Guys sorry no pictures. I do not own a digital camera. I am unable to post pictures. If I had a choice of digital camera or rudder pedles, choose rudder pedles. Saitek coming out with a set this fall. Still to pricy for me. This Saiteck x52 controller was my birthday and coming Xmas gift.

MudMarine3
08-21-2006, 08:05 PM
To All,
I regret to inform you that my wife, Mary passed away on the 12th of August. We had been married for over 30 years. Right now this simulation does not seem important to me. For those who have suffered a loss such as mine will understand.

Divine-Wind
08-21-2006, 08:30 PM
Ooh. Sorry man, my condolences. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

FoolTrottel
08-22-2006, 01:43 AM
So sorry for your loss...

notamuppet
08-22-2006, 09:59 AM
Sorry to hear that. It does put things in perspective.

MudMarine3
08-22-2006, 08:50 PM
I Thank you all for your understanding. That X52 I am selling and my entire game collection. Please do not reply to this if any party is interested. Please contact me by e-mail.

larryhwagner@comcast.net

The gang here is a great bunch of guys. I have enjoyed your posts and posting. My interests now are more biblical. I find great comfort in my faith. My blog site will now be more centered in that diriction. I have found that with out my faith I would not have the strenth to continue living. It has made my loss easier to bare.
That is it for now Injun signing off. This will be my last post here. I will keep the handle to post at more faith based sites. So ya can watch for it. May God Bless you all.