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View Full Version : P51 Miss Helen comes a cropper at Duxford, Undercarriage and prop damaged



Taylortony
07-15-2008, 06:07 AM
That means the engine needs shock loading and I hope the spars are OK. Interestingly he lost power on approach, the first shot tells it all, that looks like coolant....

See

Picture from the sites listed below
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g98/rjlaker/P1100400.jpg
http://www.depthoffieldimages.co.uk/misc/misshelenhit.jpg


For more pictures and information see

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboar...ST;f=1;t=51236;st=20 (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=a984107877694db6d2aaf6a43d120447;a ct=ST;f=1;t=51236;st=20)

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=82493

Schwarz.13
07-15-2008, 07:26 AM
That's very unfortunate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I hope Miss Helen isn't the P-51 due to fly at East Fortune on the 26th July! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Kettenhunde
07-15-2008, 10:25 AM
OUCH!

Glad everyone is ok.

All the Best,

Crumpp

Aaron_GT
07-15-2008, 11:21 AM
I was there on Saturday and given the sound from one of the B25s and the F4U when getting ready for take off my money would have been on one of those rather than one of the P51s.

Still, on Saturday - half a dozen P51s and eleven Spits in the air at once (and two B17s).

Are there any British WW2 bombers apart from Lancasters still flying?

Every time I go to an air show one of the planes seems to crash within the week.

Vike
07-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Hmm sad news indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Every time I go to an air show one of the planes seems to crash within the week.

Then,maybe you shoudn't go to Airshows anymore! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

KrashanTopolova
07-15-2008, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Taylortony:
That means the engine needs shock loading and I hope the spars are OK. Interestingly he lost power on approach, the first shot tells it all, that looks like coolant....
/QUOTE]

It seems as if the Mustang suffered exactly like the FW190 in that when its cooling system was inadequate and it bacame overheated its stability was affected. The FW190s overheating problem was generally confined to lower altitudes.

WTE_Galway
07-15-2008, 06:48 PM
Its a real catch22 with classic aircraft, especially the more rare examples.

Do we play it safe and turn them into boring set pieces in a museum somewhere ... or do we keep them flying and risk eventually losing them in an accident.

Schwarz.13
07-16-2008, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Its a real catch22 with classic aircraft, especially the more rare examples.

Do we play it safe and turn them into boring set pieces in a museum somewhere ... or do we keep them flying and risk eventually losing them in an accident.

To me, keeping an airworthy warbird as a static display in a museum is like keeping a bird in a cage!

Obviously they can't be flown indefinately though...

Bo_Nidle
07-16-2008, 10:29 AM
Accidents happen to modern aircraft as well as warbirds. If that had happened to a Cessna then no-one would have noticed.

When a warbird flies over even the un-informed are impressed, when they are in a museum the same person will pass the same aircraft with scarcely a glance.

Warbirds need to keep flying, when they fly they live. When they are put in a museum they die.

Taylortony
07-16-2008, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Its a real catch22 with classic aircraft, especially the more rare examples.

Do we play it safe and turn them into boring set pieces in a museum somewhere ... or do we keep them flying and risk eventually losing them in an accident.

I agree with the posts after this, It is a bit of a falicy to assume because it is a Mustang it is rare or Historical, if you wanted and paid the money I could build you a new one tomorrow, all the parts are readily available newly built in the states, it is then a simple matter of nailing it all together and adding a historical data plate off some old warbird wreck and slapping on a suitable historic paint scheme... The Aircraft then assumes the hallowed title of "Warbird" as so many have done before..........

MB_Avro_UK
07-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Its a real catch22 with classic aircraft, especially the more rare examples.

Do we play it safe and turn them into boring set pieces in a museum somewhere ... or do we keep them flying and risk eventually losing them in an accident.

I agree with the posts after this, It is a bit of a falicy to assume because it is a Mustang it is rare or Historical, if you wanted and paid the money I could build you a new one tomorrow, all the parts are readily available newly built in the states, it is then a simple matter of nailing it all together and adding a historical data plate off some old warbird wreck and slapping on a suitable historic paint scheme... The Aircraft then assumes the hallowed title of "Warbird" as so many have done before.......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good point TT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I read somewhere that the Hurricane that crashed and burned out at the Shoreham display last year will be restored. (Pilot was killed tho').

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Thekid321
07-16-2008, 03:25 PM
Having, say, a mustang that was built completely from scratch with modern materials and engineering for me just wouldn't be the same as an original p51 that saw combat. I wouldn't feel as bad if i crashed a new one, but flying the new one just wouldn't be the same. you know what i mean? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Taylortony
07-16-2008, 03:52 PM
Just because it is new does not mean it is built to the same specs and materials..... You cannot just re engineer the Airframe to suit, you might put in a modern panel layout but thats about it... though it's not unknown for Spits to be rebuilt in the States using US Spec metals and Rivets. Aircraft like the White One Foundation FW190 are doing it right, using Metric rivets etc.... but that adds cost and time to the project, but in my eyes it is good to see. The Allen Collection has had them all restored as per the Factory specs as well I believe... some of the flying days look interesting too as well as the vacancieshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://www.flyingheritage.com/

Though perhaps someone should point out though the Aircraft they have is indeed a Dora this isn't sigh..

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplateHome.aspx?planeId=4


Think about it, how many are flying that are original and never been rebuilt? The Spit that lives next door to me is a rarity in the fact that it has never gone through a rebuild.

When you see a lot of them that have been dragged out of the Jungle and rebuilt, they probably contain 1% of the original warbird..... One of the Spits that was rebuilt here contained one leading edge some bracketry controls and the data plate, the rest had been remanufactured during the rebuild process,

nsteense
07-17-2008, 04:36 AM
Miss Helen also had her share of problems on Saturday. After landing from the balbo formation, the pilot shut down the engine at the end of the runway after landing, and had to be towed back to the hangar. I didn't go to the hanger to have a look at it afterwards, but the next day she had a test flight around lunch time and everything seemed to be ok. She participated in the mustang formations on Sundaywithout a problem. THat's from audience view of point.
Tony
Which spitfire is that living next door? MH434 by any coincidence?

SeaFireLIV
07-17-2008, 07:28 AM
Now a crashlanding like that I can use! hope you don`t mind if I nick it?

stathem
07-17-2008, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by nsteense:
Miss Helen also had her share of problems on Saturday. After landing from the balbo formation, the pilot shut down the engine at the end of the runway after landing, and had to be towed back to the hangar. I didn't go to the hanger to have a look at it afterwards, but the next day she had a test flight around lunch time and everything seemed to be ok. She participated in the mustang formations on Sundaywithout a problem. THat's from audience view of point.
Tony
Which spitfire is that living next door? MH434 by any coincidence?

She spent most of Sunday morning with her bonnet off as well...

Kettenhunde
07-17-2008, 08:42 AM
Aircraft like the White One Foundation FW190 are doing it right, using Metric rivets etc.... but that adds cost and time to the project, but in my eyes it is good to see.

It adds considerable expense. Another thing is matching the correct alloys.

All duralumin is not created equally. The Germans used a very low cupric content alloy for example. It is heavier, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, and extremely resistant to corrosion. A surprising amount of it is still airworthy even after being in the ground for 60 years.

The USAAF used a higher cupric content alloy which is more vulnerable to corrosion and has different strengths.

The Japanese alloys had the highest cupric content. This made them very light but extremely vulnerable to corrosion.

The choice of alloy is reflected in the airframe engineering.

Of course this does not address the differences in finishing and coating technology either.

All the best,

Crumpp

Taylortony
07-17-2008, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by nsteense:
Miss Helen also had her share of problems on Saturday. After landing from the balbo formation, the pilot shut down the engine at the end of the runway after landing, and had to be towed back to the hangar. I didn't go to the hanger to have a look at it afterwards, but the next day she had a test flight around lunch time and everything seemed to be ok. She participated in the mustang formations on Sundaywithout a problem. THat's from audience view of point.
Tony
Which spitfire is that living next door? MH434 by any coincidence?

PS853 nsteense http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nsteense
07-18-2008, 02:46 AM
Tony, isn't that the Mark19 owned by Rolls Royce? I'm not too good at remembering the serial numbers.
If so, I was wondering why it didn't make it to Flying Legends.
As with many others, like, why didn't the skyraider and the Swordfish show up, the same as why Big Beautifull Doll of Rob Davies couldn't make it... The first time in my 6 years of visiting, I didn't see that one.

Taylortony
07-18-2008, 08:31 AM
Yes it is nsteense

It didn't make flying legends as it was booked to display at RIAT on both days as well as Farnborough I believe... can't be in two places at once unfortunately..

Weather conditions and maintenance probs can cause problems for no shows, one of the swordfish listed I believe isn't airworthy at the moment and unfortunately weather wise, most of the aircraft it attracts are on Permits to Fly which are VFR only...

nsteense
07-22-2008, 07:04 AM
well, hopefully next year!
I find it strange hearing about the Swordfish, saying it is not yet airworthy. It was listed as an official participant...
I can understand the whole problems wiht serviceability and weather, but why but on the list of participants, even when it is not airworthy yet? To be honest, i was looking forward to the Swordfish, never seen one in the air yet.