PDA

View Full Version : Whoa Camel, Whoa!



XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:55 PM
With this new dang patch, its gone too far in the other direction. Its now harder than ever to bleed off speed prior to landing. The glide ratio on most FB planes is well beyond 14:1, which is the glide ratio for an older (circa 1960) slippery jet. Exceding this ratio seems excessive for not-so-aerodymanic prop planes. Maximizing drag with prop pitch, cowl flap and landing flap does little to remedy the situation. As a result,the required landing roll distance is likewise too lengthy.

With the lack of speed-brakes, I need to open the side window on my canopy and stick my hand out to provide some much needed drag!



Message Edited on 08/18/0303:40PM by ISU-152

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:55 PM
With this new dang patch, its gone too far in the other direction. Its now harder than ever to bleed off speed prior to landing. The glide ratio on most FB planes is well beyond 14:1, which is the glide ratio for an older (circa 1960) slippery jet. Exceding this ratio seems excessive for not-so-aerodymanic prop planes. Maximizing drag with prop pitch, cowl flap and landing flap does little to remedy the situation. As a result,the required landing roll distance is likewise too lengthy.

With the lack of speed-brakes, I need to open the side window on my canopy and stick my hand out to provide some much needed drag!



Message Edited on 08/18/0303:40PM by ISU-152

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:56 PM
I find with the FW's I have to stick my head out - and then open my mouth

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Edit:

Patch didn't help my spelling either!

Message Edited on 08/18/0302:57PM by B16Enk

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:58 PM
Absolutely! And you better think twice before landing at a "hot" base. Your vulnerability has gone up exponentially.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:25 PM
I like the added time necessary for landing. If all these n00bs can't be bothered w/ a proper T/O then they damn well better pay attention to their landings.

<center> http://www.4yourfuture.net/handshake.gif


"Altitude, speed, maneuver, fire!"-The "formula of Terror" of Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Three times awarded the rank of Hero of the Soviet Union

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:31 PM
I suggest eating a can of beans. Then, you only have to stick your arse out of the cockpit and get inverted throttle. Just like in a 747!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:33 PM
DuxCorvan wrote:
- I suggest eating a can of beans. Then, you only have
- to stick your arse out of the cockpit and get
- inverted throttle. Just like in a 747!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
-
-- Dux Corvan -
-
ROFL!!

Bet it gets over modelled!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:33 PM
Landings are more realistic, but I gotta agree with Thunderbolt56 too:


Author: Thunderbolt56

"Absolutely! And you better think twice before landing at a "hot" base. Your vulnerability has gone up exponentially."

Landing in battle is now almost impossible without effective cover. I was shot down multiple times trying to land and had to abort many. And the LA5 simply does not want to stop! I have to stick both feet out thru the floor!

CFS 3 landings were more like this especially in the Spit (One of CFS3`s good points). /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But I`m not whining. It`s more real. I always thought it was always a little too easy to land anyway.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

Message Edited on 08/18/0302:34PM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:35 PM
I find it no more difficult to land with the patch.

Then again, I was lining up from 3-5 KM out to begin with.

And if you're coming in too hot, go around.

Also, use your prop pitch to reduce the RPM's of your engine and dirty up your prop.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:44 PM
BA_Dart wrote:
- I find it no more difficult to land with the patch.

I agree - to a point! see 'too hot'

- Then again, I was lining up from 3-5 KM out to begin
- with.

When possible yes, if your speed is ok - maybe

- And if you're coming in too hot, go around.

Post patch it's always too hot!

- Also, use your prop pitch to reduce the RPM's of
- your engine and dirty up your prop.

And theirn lies the problem. On non CEM servers you can't adjust the prop pitch, ergo coming in too hot and landing being 'more difficult'.

No complaint. Just got to adjust. Be nice to have the pitch problem fixed though - it hurts when a flap flies off after three good kills and your on final fighting the speed!
And you die../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:53 PM
Respect the inertia! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://www.assonetart.com/jsGodsgrace.jpg </center><center>/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The above statue was a gift from France</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:08 PM
I've learned to just shut down my engine to get a more realistic glide curve (for a plane with power on at idle) about 2 miles out from the numbers. This way, I won't be geriatric before I slow enough to extend my landing gear.

Also, I always thought there should have been more prop/wing turbulence than in the original version, but this is ridiculous! I've flown Piper J3 CUB's closer to airliners with less reaction than I get now. Sometimes it doesn't even wait for the plane to pass before throwing you into a stall!


Ah yes, sit back... relax... hit that IL-2 Forgotten Battles exe and listen to Oleg and his Bucket 'O Bolts Band playing the soothing sounds of Satan!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:08 PM
A technique shown to me to get into a base quickly is this:

Come steaming in above the base, and then cut power more
or less over it, and come down in a spiral, dropping
flaps and gear as you can. It might be a bit trickier
with more E retention now, but worked in 1.0. Sometimes
I have to add full rudder, and opposite aileron to use
the body of the plane as an airbrake.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:13 PM
I forgot to add that I usually improve my drag by having various holes and bits removed through a unique agreement with some German friends of mine, particularly when flying the LaGG.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:35 PM
well you cant come in full speed land on the strip now hit full flaps turn engine off and come to a stop in less then 5 seconds anymore, much much more realistic now.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:41 PM
AaronGT wrote:
- Sometimes I have to add full rudder, and opposite aileron to use the body of the plane as an airbrake.


You've just described a technique called a "slip". Very effective for slowing down and losing altitude.


Willy


http://www.flagplace.com/images/UNITED_STATES/BONNIE_BLUE.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:41 PM
A 5 mile final leg to a landing pattern is not normal or even close to reality. This is especially true with a combination of shot up plane, combat flaps and unfeathered engine off!

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:53 PM
Similarly, it's harder to force an overshoot and to control speed in a steep dive. I'm not a RL pilot, so I don't know if it's realistic. But it's much different than v.1.0, where you could plop down a 109 without much trouble.

Btw - the title's reference? Yosimite Sam?

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:53 PM
VonKlugermon wrote:
- You've just described a technique called a "slip".
- Very effective for slowing down and losing altitude.

I used to have (maybe it is still in my mother's house?)
a WW2 flying training manual that described it. I'd
completely forgotten about that until just now. Maybe
I absorbed something! I used to read it a lot when I
was about 12 or so. If we ever get a Miles Magister in
the game I'll be an ace in a day :-)

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:44 PM
I am a current military pilot with 3000 hrs in various types of prop and fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters (except large multi-engine fixed wing). The glide ratio in FB is way too hot.

I generally use a tactical battle break landing procedure to avoid a long drawn out and thus vunerable final approach, and even this does not go right. Short of killing my engine on short final, I need to slideslip my approach (one-wing down, full opposite rudder) to provide some drag. Once on the ground, (having killed my lift by retracting flap) the landing roll still takes me to the other end of the airstrip. And we all know what happens in FB if we hit the brakes too hard!

As Yosemite Sam said, "Whoa Camel whoa"!

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:53 PM
sure landings are a lil more realistic but now with this crazy gliding capability its next too imposible to force an over shoot in a sizzors fight taking away a huge aspect of dogfighting

also a rolling sizors is realy hard to force the overshoot because everytime I dip my nose down I regain 3/4 of the speed I broke off in begening of the manuver

these manuvers are the Ultimate when DF German V Russian
& this part of the game is now all but Gone you either stick with hardcore B&Z or mix it up in the Furball with a T&B theres not realy much middle ground imo

Its still posible to make these manuvers but there lots less effective IMO because losing airspeed is very hard do quickley

PS im sure Ill figure something out untill then Ill be Death from above

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:05 PM
When I says whoaa I means whoaa

http://users.bigpond.net.au/jellery/yosemite-sam.gif




"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

Hawgdog
08-18-2003, 09:05 PM
The hurricane B wont even throttle down! You have to cut the engine to get enough time to land and not overshoot the runway

<center></script>Bad Dog Brigade
Vulching can be a contact sport
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.adelphia.net/~hawgdog/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:58 PM
Before approach put nose up till you lose enough speed to deploy landing flaps and gear, then you drop pretty steep with little speed gain. If you wait to slow down in a gliding path, you wait forever.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:58 AM
Well, if I'm landing that means I didnt get shot down and I have a perfectly good parachute that I didnt get to use. I just snap it on the seat and toss it out the cockpit.WHAAAMMMMMMMMMM... landing speed.

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:49 AM
I know what you mean about bleeding speed. I have found that since the patch, too much altitude is a definite disadvantage. Last night I tried to B-nZ from 2000 meters and by the time I have the target within range, (250-200 meters), my wings or alierons or elevators were ripping off!
For the first time I was my own target! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

<center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/05.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:55 AM
The glide pseed should be way more higher as speed increases.These planes had a hard time cyutting thru the wind and yet in FB you throttle off at 400KPH and they just keep going as if aerodynamic drag with speed isnt calculated.

I take it from reading the patch-read-me AND oLEGS LAST PATCH POST THAT THIS PATCH IS FINAL.The final will just fix big bugs like sound.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:19 AM
Yes, the planes are a little too slippery now, but you can still fly proper approaches.

The key is to get on the back side of the curve. Get dirty, raise the nose and control your descent rate with the throttle. An IL-2 glides in real nice at 140-150 kph with full flaps and 40-50% throttle.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:32 AM
the new energy retention for landing is total bull loney. i flew the t6 texan and we didnt need to shut down the engine to land. and it did it ON a VERY SHORT RUNWAY. i slow down to 320 k in my fw then shut off engine then go to full landing flaps and kick out my gear and open radiator fully and hang my private parts out the cockpit at 15 feet above the runway landing then shoot all my remainder of cannon ammo to help slow me down using rudder simultaneously to fishtail down the runway and STILL OVERSHOOT the end of EVERY runway made!!!i always end up in the weeds hoping i dont bounce and break my gear!!!. landings are porked, borked, and morc from orced !!! plain and simple. but since the fixed the fw and made it competitive i wont complain too much. but it is wrong .....

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:54 AM
I agree with LEXX Luthor. Give yourself plenty of room. At about 800m altitude and around 350 kph, nose up, watch airspeed VERY carefully to 200 kph, nose down, extend u/c, land. Haven't overrun a landing strip yet with I-153, Me262, LaGG3, La5, La7, MIG3, Bf109G6 or Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:37 AM
I find that with ALL the planes, if you come in at about 200 and touch the edge of the field at about 160, you can come to a stop easy. Also if you pull max up elevator and press the brakes it helps too.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:55 AM
ISU-152 wrote:

>>>> With the lack of speed-brakes, I need to open the side window on my canopy and stick my hand out to provide some much needed drag!


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:28 AM
Aparantaly no one else sees the coralation between not being able to burn-E/throttle down/induce drag by using prop pitch as being very important

From what I understand using PP as an airbrake is entirly posible in ac that have manual PP this was modled in FB 1.0

But its gone now Yes.. Yes.. I know this is an open beta but the fact is they had it close to right for 109's/190 PP & now its gone... makes for boring DF's IMO



Maybe it will be fixed in the next patch 9 months from now


<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:49 AM
Also, I am puzzled (seems to be a *perpetual state of mind with me). Knowing that you slow faster when at high speeds, why is it that it takes much longer to bleed off from 500 K.P.H. to 350 K.P.H. than it does to slow from 350 K.P.H. to 150 K.P.H? Before you ask, yes, this is in straight and level flight.


* a $0.25 U.S. fancy word charge plus handling has been charged to ISU-152's PayPal account for the word "perpetual"



Message Edited on 08/19/03 06:52AM by Luckyboy310th

Message Edited on 08/19/03 08:10AM by Luckyboy310th

Message Edited on 08/19/0308:19AM by Luckyboy310th

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:27 AM
Heh, once I had to emergency land on a dirt road in Finland with my Brewster (my engine had been totally shot up). I came in and made a perfect landing...then I just sat there for 5 secs or so and all of a sudden an I-16 strafed me!
My plane started burning, I bailed out and as my pilot ran away that freakin' Brewster blew up!!!
I got hospitalized, but six moths later I was back hunting the reds.

"Someday this war's gonna end..."