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BfHeFwMe
04-01-2006, 11:43 PM
May we have the flap's in the P-38 corrected. The full flap speeds are to high, should be 150 Mph as indicated on the airspeed guage. Curently allow 200+, a bit high.

Also the combat flap position is wrong, the flap slid back to 50%, this was combat flap deployment. The airspeed is far to slow for this position, it was 250 mph as indicated on the guage. Currently jamm slightly above 200 mph, bit to low. There was no takeoff position.

As you can see even in the modeled aircraft the flaps worked like this. Forward of the front notch cut in the flap lever base is labled "UP". By sliding the lever in the up position the flaps would start upward movement, that could be stopped and locked by placing the flap lever in the "Closed" position. The closed label you'll find at the very top, this is lock position.

Next is "Manouver", this is the notch slightly aboved the "DOWN" position. This position had a gate to lock it, and DOWN couldn't be accessed unless you lifted the notch on the flap lever itself. Again you could stop the Flap in a partial down position by returning the flap lever to closed. No latch was needed to slide it from down to closed.

As animated in game, the lever never moves past the Manouver slot, combat flap has the lever still near the up position.

Thanks for your time Buddy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

StG2_Schlachter
04-03-2006, 09:10 AM
Since FAP uses a simplified system for flap simulation/control i would not count on anything of this being corrected. The P-38 is not the only birds that has this wrong.

BfHeFwMe
04-04-2006, 09:28 PM
Yeah, I noticed. Spitfire gets clobbered with 13 pages of dribble to get it "corrected". But not one of those posters shows a bit of interest in a fighter that's truely off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

BigKahuna_GS
04-04-2006, 11:37 PM
I would think that you would ask for the P38 elevator to be corrected first as it compresses way too soon.

Or for the correct stall speed.

Or for the correct climb rate.


Fix these first and we will talk about flaps.

--

BueJack
04-05-2006, 12:58 PM
Back this all up with the correct 'technical' info and send it to Oleg.

I'm sure he'll put it in the pipeline of mods. He does persue correctness of the aircraft to a large degree.

BfHeFwMe
04-05-2006, 08:50 PM
P=38's had no elevator problems, why would I ask to get it fixed? Compression was due to a high speed wing stall. Elevators worked fine, even with a compressed wing stall, there were several warnings in the pilots manual not to over pull in stall recovery. It was the loss of lift that pushed the nose down, not anything to do with elevators or elevator force.

The reason you dare not pull elevator, or touch ailerons and rudder, was you were no longer in controled flight with the wing stall, any attempt to recover while compressed could cause a tumble and disintigration of your aircraft at wing compression speeds.

The outer wings past the engine nacelles didn't stall, they had enough lift with the stability of the contrarotating props to keep you nosing straight. The inner third of the wings was stalled due to compression caused off the pilots pod/ engine nacelles shape and proxemity. Typically 2/3 of a wings lift is created in the first 1/3, so imagine your stool getting two of it's three legs kicked out from under.

That's also the reason why the dive flaps were positioned on the outer wing inside where it, the outer wing, creates the most lift. It added 20mph to the charted compression speeds, that and power chopped could get you out of the onset of a nose plunge.

Once you were in compression, you were in it for the ride, not having this bogus control like we have all the way through, or a "compressed" elevator.

As for proof, look at the flap console on your in game plane and the inscriptions on it. It matches what I stated, because it's pretty much paraphrased out of the manual.

Look it up yourself, AAF-M 51-127-1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

pourshot
04-06-2006, 04:42 AM
The reason you dare not pull elevator, or touch ailerons and rudder, was you were no longer in controled flight with the wing stall, any attempt to recover while compressed could cause a tumble and disintigration of your aircraft at wing compression speeds.

Once you were in compression, you were in it for the ride, not having this bogus control like we have all the way through, or a "compressed" elevator.

I think this compression was not a problem at low alts, for proof of this is the recovery procedure. That is to wait until you hit thicker air and the buffet would stop by itself then you could recover from the dive.

But I could be wrong it was a long time ago I read about p38.

BfHeFwMe
04-06-2006, 10:44 PM
All you have to do is look at the compression dive chart to see it wasn't possible to achieve the speeds beginning dives near and under 10K. If you started the dive at higher altitude the trouble was when you did hit lower altitudes where you could recover, it still took time to decellerate. You didn't have much time passing through 10K compressed, you could get out of compression for sure, but still not have the room to recover from the dive angle.

It's still near stall, and a hard pull could throw it right back in. That's why it was so dangerous to lose control.

But anyway, Combat flaps were 50% at 250 Mph please, may we have that speed for takeoff flap?

Full flap to high, 150 Mph please! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

cygfrain
04-07-2006, 01:59 AM
BfheFwMe you might find this forum interesting its called "The Lockheed Syndicate" and concerns itself with all matters P38

http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=F...&file=viewforum&f=18 (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=18)

BigKahuna_GS
04-22-2006, 04:43 AM
S!


On compression--the IL2 P38 starts comprssing around 380mph at low alt. In real life there was no compression problems at low alt.

Interesting Read about P38 dive:

http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/p-38_lightning/p-38_lightning_3.asp

William H. Allen flew with the 55th Fighter Group and recalls P-38 dive-- bombing missions. "Dive-bombing depended on the fuse setting; sometimes, they were three-second delays, which meant a higher release altitude, and they went up to 19-second delays, where we would drop from 10 feet in a level attitude and let the bomb skip up to the target. We would normally start our run at 8,000 to 10,000 feet and roll over, point at the target and drop when we got nervous. Dive speeds were no problem with the P-38 below 12,000 to 15,000 feet."


P38 Ace (38 kills) Thomas McGuire:
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/mcguire/mcguire.htm

I had begun a climb when I sighted two Zekes at 3 o'clock and about 1,000 feet below me. I dived to attack, getting several shots with no results observed. I was at 18,000 feet when three Zekes from 8 o'clock high attacked me. As I was diving out, one closed in to very close range, putting about two slugs into the cockpit and possibly other parts of the ship. My evasive maneuver in this instance was to increase my dive to vertical, diving to 7,000 feet, then pulling back up to 12,000 feet.

McGuire dove out from 18,000ft straight down to 7,000ft without compressing and pulled back up to 12,000ft.

Power on Stall Speed flaps down--53mph
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/p-38/p-38-67869.html


Climb Rate
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/p-38/p-38j-67869-climb.jpg

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/p-38/p-38j-67869-climb.jpg