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SaQSoN
10-11-2006, 07:00 AM
Hello,

1C modellers ask help with italian aircraft technical markings, used during the BoB.

They need standard or most usual (if such existed) scheme of technical stencilling, used on the following aircraft:

Fiat BR.20
Fiat G.50
Fiat CR.42

Prefferably, that the stencilling will have the English translation, so they could understand, what each phrase means.

If you don't have stencilling exhamples for the said aircraft, then any other aircraft of the time will do either.

If you have any materials on that matter, please, let me know about this and I will give you an FTP access, where you can upload
this stuff.

Big thanks in advance,


Vladimir.

GerritJ9
10-11-2006, 04:22 PM
I'll check my "archives" to see if I have anything that may be of use.

major_setback
10-11-2006, 08:35 PM
You might get just a little help from this:

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco_bob.htm

and these:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it%5Eair.html

http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v4/v4n1-2/ro37.html

These are decals for models, look at the ones 1938-43, there are a number of them (made in the '80's):

http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=4_499991&sort=3a&page=1

http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalog/index.php?cName=decals-aircraft-172-scale

GerritJ9
10-12-2006, 03:00 AM
I have found nothing on the BR.20 in my "archive" at all; on the G.50 only the material in William Green's "Warplanes of the Second World War: Fighters volume 2" which only includes a few photos (no details of stencilling); and on the CR.42, in addition to the material in Green, I also have the CR.42 Profile which contains, among others, three photos of CR.42s at a Belgian airfield plus the usual colour drawings etc. If any of this material is of even the slightest interest, PM me and I will scan it for you. I also have the SM.79 Profile in case that may be of interest.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

SaQSoN
10-12-2006, 06:39 AM
Thanks, but, they need only technical stencilling. They have national and squad markings and paintschemes already.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Best regards,


SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky)

veltro205
10-12-2006, 10:27 AM
Dear Vladimir,

a check of the national and (especially of) the Squadron markings, codes and paintschemes chosen would be very useful, because Italian stuff is not known so well around and there are a lot of errors in the few books published and in the informations available on the net.

For the stencilling, the three particular aircraft you mention had only the type, serial (Matricola Militare) and possibly the version and the weights on the rear fuselage.

Further details from the mates of 150? Gruppo CT will be collected and sent soon.

HTH, all the best

Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico

GerritJ9
10-12-2006, 02:08 PM
Veltro, your information pretty much matches the photos and drawings in the CR.42 Profile- only the type and MM number are shown. I have looked closely at all photos, but no other markings are visible.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

major_setback
10-12-2006, 09:55 PM
This may be of use

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/fiatcr42alitalia.html<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/B17sig07.jpg

major_setback
10-12-2006, 10:05 PM
Walk around 1:

http://www.ottocubano.com/vigna%20CR42_%201.htm

example.

http://www.ottocubano.com/images/CR%2042/DSC08667.jpg

Walk around 2:

http://www.gavs.it/Speciali/CR_42_Vigna/CR42_vigna_di_Valle.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/B17sig07.jpg

SaQSoN
10-13-2006, 10:53 AM
Ok, so to underline it: there were no technical stencilling on the said aircraft in the 1940, right?

Fine, so be it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Best regards,


SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky)

Hoarmurath
10-13-2006, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by SaQSoN:
Ok, so to underline it: there were no technical stencilling on the said aircraft in the 1940, right?

Fine, so be it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It seem italians were not into technical stencils. I looked all photos of italian planes i have and haven't seen anything like the various stencils that can be found on german, english and american planes.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sigus.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SaQSoN
10-13-2006, 11:38 AM
It seem italians were not into technical stencils. I looked all photos of italian planes i have and haven't seen anything like the various stencils that can be found on german, english and american planes.

Well, to my knowlege, at least, Re-2001 and MC-205 did have a lots of them. But those were late war models...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Best regards,


SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky)

Hoarmurath
10-13-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by SaQSoN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It seem italians were not into technical stencils. I looked all photos of italian planes i have and haven't seen anything like the various stencils that can be found on german, english and american planes.

Well, to my knowlege, at least, Re-2001 and MC-205 did have a lots of them. But those were late war models... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MC205 had 3 triangles on engine cowl, one right behind the canopy, and one on the pharmacy panel. Sometime with empty weight stenciled on the tail fin. Not stenciled, but technical nonetheless are two plates under the canopy. It is one of the italian planes i have seen bearing the most stencils.

If you compare with G-55 for example, this one only had the pharmacy stencil, and sometime the empty weight on tail fin.

I know that the MC-202 had a few as well.

On the early war planes though, i can't find one. I have some photos of G-50, Cr-42, but they don't show any technical stencil.

Have you tried asking Pierre Alfaro? I know he contributed to the book "Camouflage and markings of the ANR" from classic publication. Maybe he have some materials.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sigus.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

veltro205
10-13-2006, 01:59 PM
Have you tried asking Pierre Alfaro? I know he contributed to the book "Camouflage and markings of the ANR" from classic publication. Maybe he have some materials.
Well, being myself one of the authors of the book, maybe (perhaphs, maybe...) I know something about that topic... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pierre Alfaro, however, worked for us only as far as the Bf 109s top and plan views were concerned...

HTH, all the best

Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico

Hoarmurath
10-13-2006, 02:15 PM
lol, sorry, i didn't noticed before....

Excellent book btw... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sigus.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

veltro205
10-13-2006, 04:38 PM
Thanks, Hoarmurath...!

Turning back to the images posted of the Fiat Cr.42 restored in Italy, I wouldn't rely too much on restorations, but only on wartime photographs.

In this case, for instance, the name and MM (serial) number are of the right shape, but those applied by Fiat had also a "3D effect" obtained by applying a "shadow" on the right and lower side of each digit.

This was typical of Fiat and the same style can be found also on the Br.20 bombers.

The photo below should exemplify what I mean...

http://users.libero.it/f.damico/veltro/Cr42_MM.jpg

The "P.aV." (Peso a Vuoto = empty weight) and C.U. (Carico Utile = warload) expressed in Kg.(kilograms)- 1720 and 575 respectively - were in plain black instead.

HTH, all the best

Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico

SUPERAEREO
10-14-2006, 06:26 AM
I can only agree with what Veltro said about not relying too much on restorations (or profiles, I may add), since a lot of them present a number of obvious errors.

In addition to that the machines of the Corpo Aereo Italiano in Belgium presented some peculiarities in their insignia and markings which have more often than not been overlooked in older publications, and this applies to the Br.20 bombers as well as the Cr.42 and G.50 fighters.

While I have full confidence in the seriousness of the approach that Oleg and 1C are using in the realisation of the new sim, I couldn't help noticing that the Spitfires of 66 Sqn. shown in the previews already have wrongly coloured spinners and bright red roundels, so I hope that the final version will have paid to camouflage and markings the attention they deserve.


S!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/SUPERAEREO-super.jpg

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger
"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Gro▀e
"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - Ăneid

Abraxa
10-14-2006, 01:56 PM
What Veltro and Superaereo already said.

Plus, you say that you have all the info about camos and markings. Good... but take an extra care about it and be sure to get the most accurate information available around.
I really wouldn't trust the profiles commonly seen.
It's better to avoid mistakes, as long as it's still possible.

Regads<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<span class="ev_code_red"> Abraxa</span>

My skins (http://www.150gct.it/modules.php?name=WLFiles)

269GA-Veltro
10-16-2006, 11:27 AM
This is what i've sent to Oleg some time ago about BoB and CSIR. I hope (i think) it could have been a good historical resource, at least for the fighters.

http://misc.kitreview.com/bookreviews/images/italiancamobookreviewse_cov.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

150GCT_Veltro
http://www.150gct.it/users/150GCT_Veltro/G55OSei.jpg
www.150gct.it (http://www.150gct.it)
<span class="ev_code_yellow">"MED after BoB 100%"</span>
<span class="ev_code_yellow">Abraxa's skins</span> (http://www.150gct.it/modules.php?name=WLFiles)

Snuff_Pidgeon
01-22-2007, 04:45 PM
www.finn.it/regia (http://www.finn.it/regia) try this site stacks of photos video links and art work