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View Full Version : What do you like about online dogfighting?



zyotich
02-12-2006, 11:23 PM
Hello, I've been flying offline for a couple of years now, but I've recently been checking out some dogfight servers. To me, it just seems very chaotic and time consuming. Admittedly I'm not that good but I seem to spend more time taxiing and gaining initial altitude than anything else. It seems kind of tedious, especially when there are already great multiplayer FPS's (BF2,COD,etc.) if I just want to shoot and be shot at in a more timely manner. So, my question is what do you like about doing it online? Are some servers better than others for pace, realism, etc.? Which ones?

littlemosquito
02-13-2006, 12:59 AM
I'd say I like it because every pilot has their own ways to fly their planes ;lol not like the offline AI's lol say all ACES fly exactly the same as eachother lol it's like shooting the same plane down lol..... online it isn't :-)

Viper_42
02-13-2006, 02:26 AM
Multiplay for me is best when with not too many players and on a server with no wonder woman view but not too hardcore realistic either. For example, the realism setting where there is no map icon is just annoying. So I don't play on those servers. Also, usually the ones with ground targets and objectives are the best so everyone isn't just in a big team deathmatch airquake. But that depends on what you like. Another thing is that servers that are not too populated tend to have people that stick together more and the only thing better than being in an online bomber formation is attacking it.

Troll2k
02-13-2006, 03:19 AM
It sounds like you would be more interested in the coop rooms or one of the online wars instead of dog fighting.

msalama
02-13-2006, 03:53 AM
Online wars? As unhistorical as DF rooms IMHO, at least on the red side. Well maybe not _all_ squads, of course, but these are my impressions nevertheless after flying IL2WAR for a month or so.

What you get in them is everyone being hysterical & pushing the pedal to the metal so's they get to the target faster than the defender, regardless of the fact that it COULD actually be wiser to take a detour route, fly slower (and possibly high, depending on the AC), and THINK about w.t.f. it really _is_ they should be doing when they arrive!

And the same thing with escort missions. Guys spot someone miles and miles away, and OF COURSE they soddin' _all_ fly there to see if it's the baddie(s) so that they can try to score some all-important personal points, and guess what next? The bombers/transports, being unprotected now, soon get their a**es pwnd by the enemy waiting up there...

Yep... there ain't no big-picture realism in this game, and we just have to live with that it seems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Hoatee
02-13-2006, 04:08 AM
The randomness and unpredictability of human behaviour is what I like about online fighting.

What I don't like is all the technical hassles that go along with it (lag and stutter, players who have to win at all costs to the extent that they are willing to manipulate or obstruct the opposition pc - or maybe out of warped sense of fun or whatever).

Offline is better than online (AI maybe needs some improvement but so do humans).

Beirut
02-13-2006, 04:17 AM
What I enjoyed most was going up in an IL2-3M and blowing several -109s to bits before their machine guns could chip through my armour.

One shot from me and they were splinters. Meanwhile they're emptying their guns at me and pieces are falling off my plane and smoke is pouring out, but I'm still flying. And when they overshoot, I'm able to line up just one more time and pump a few rounds of 37mm into their 6. "Kaboom!"

Drove them nuts! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

SeaFireLIV
02-13-2006, 04:33 AM
Why I like flying online. All these experinces are best in a co-op or online Campaign.

1. You`re actually fighting living beings. You know that you are on the 6 of a panicking Human Being, you know when he goes down that you really beat someone worth the effort. Or YOU feel the panic when a Human zeroes on you! No matter how good the AI is, you`ll always know they`re not really there, they don`t feel, or know, or experience. The kill is just not the same.

2. Unpredictability of Humans. They can be way smarter than AI, or way dumber, you`ll find `em all online.

3.Flying with an online squad. An excellent experience when working together to defeat an enemy. Nice sense of camaraderie. can`t get this offline. I hope one day a sim will focus a lot on giving AI more mission and off mission personalities, so you can `feel` for them a little more.

4. Truly teaches you how to fly your aircraft to its FULLEST ability.


Negative things of online.

1. Stupid, senseless actions. Shooting down friendlies because they may have stolen your kill, an issue which can be very subjective. Shooting over the shoulder or packs of friendlies on ONE enemy mindlessly. Not taking care on takeoffs or landings and just smashing into the nearest plane. Treating online Humans like they`re AI with no courtesy. Not at least learning controls offline first.

2. Human lack of teamwork (mostly on dogfight servers).

3. Human whining about various aircraft on the chatbar. Even worse is continuous Human whining on Comms (TS, etc). Not getting on with mission.

4. Lag which can skew everything. Cause collisions. Doesn`t happen much to me these days, but does happen.

5. Servers with weird, stupid `this is my world` rules. I`m talking about `stranger` dogfight servers, not Squads. Then the server dictater proceeds in following you around to make sure you follow it. Like for instance when the server boss on comms suddenly ordered us to take off from a carrier instead of an airfield. Ok fine..
Then he ordered us to take specific aircraft. Then he started tracking us all ON COMMS and telling us off when we weren`t taking off from his airfield or flying the plane he wanted us to! That really pissed everyone off! We left in droves!

6. Sudden disconnections mid game.

7. With online Squads, sometimes you get internal squabblings. Unfortunately, military disciplne doesn`t work in pretended Squads, but you`ll always get such things when working with Humans.



There you go.

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 05:51 AM
I prefer flying against human opponents. They make mistakes, are limited to the airplanes peformance i.e. AI zeros can easily reach 500mph but the human flown zero breaks apart well before that.

YOu also get to see real players use some excellent and complex air combat manouvers the AI just doesn't do.

My favorite part of online flying is teaming up with one of more people and flying as a unit. Its the most enjoyable part for me personally, even if I don't score but the group I'm with maintains air superiority or takes out a ground target as a group, the sense of achivement is still there, and at times can be like you might read in books.

bogusheadbox
02-13-2006, 06:10 AM
Wow,

Sounds like you all dislike the game more than you like it.

Some of your criticisms are way off par.

But hey, opinions are like ********s.....Everyone has one.

Anyway here is why i like it (i prefer only full switch).

1. Full switch servers usually have more mature players on. Usually have players that are proficient in the aircraft or learning how to fly and fight without the aids offered by lower settings.
This usually discouts mindless people buzzing about for the nearest kill and helps contribute to team play, tactics and co-ordionation.

2. Games are not quake style. They share more realism. You have to plan your route, plan your objectives, plan your cover / escort, and then try to accomodate all of that while getting you and your craft home.

3. Fighting is more realistic as you have to idnetify your target. there are no icons to helpyou identify a Friend or foe 700 miles away. Provides all the benefits and hassles of blind spots while flying. Makes you pay attention the entire time you are flying.

4. Flying in real servers is not just about the kill. Its about accomplishing your objective. That is why it isn't quake. I like to fly, as well as fight. And just getting to target on a large map with minimal visual referrences and avoiding enemies is a huge sense of satisfaction.

5. Getting home after hitting oyur target and pulling your damaged / undamaged plane to a stop safely after a 40+ minute sortie is a real boon of achievement.

6. there is nothing really out there that provides this much fun. For me its about the flying. The completed objectives in sometimes overwhelming odds. And the kills..... Well they are jst a bonus on top. This game provides that. And on full switch servers makes you think 100% of the time.

No FPS can do that.

fair enough you get the occasional lunatic, or person who is not too sure how to fly a craft and is learning.

Sure you get the wombats that fling off at warp factor 2 down the taxiway maybe colliding with other craft.

But on full switch servers, they usually don't stay long. And anyone that wants to learn or has questions....Well, there is not a friendlier bunch more willing to help....as we have (or still are) been noobs at one time or other.

There is so much more about this game that appeals to me that i could type about it for ages. However, if you prefer the FPS style of quick kill, med packs, insta respawn. Then maybe parts of this game are not for you.

There are servers that cater for "arcade" type of play, but they still use time to get yourself into the area of conflict.

But to surmise. A good dogfight map with organised people who are willing to fly propperly is an experience second to none.

I would also recommend that you have a look at maybe joining a squadron and see how even Co-op missions in a squadran can provide a totally different style of game play.

Cheers.

Philipscdrw
02-13-2006, 06:55 AM
I enjoyed the near-full-switch servers (i.e. minimap path, partial icons only) - I wasn't any good though.

Maybe online wars would be flown more realistically by abandoning personal scores, and giving points at a squad level for completing mission goals (such as protecting the transports/bombers). Maybe even using a 'dead-is-dead' philosophy, so if you shoot over your team-mates shoulder and accidentally shoot him down, you carry the guilt for eliminating him from the competition.

jds1978
02-13-2006, 07:05 AM
5. Servers with weird, stupid `this is my world` rules. I`m talking about `stranger` dogfight servers, not Squads. Then the server dictater proceeds in following you around to make sure you follow it. Like for instance when the server boss on comms suddenly ordered us to take off from a carrier instead of an airfield. Ok fine..
Then he ordered us to take specific aircraft. Then he started tracking us all ON COMMS and telling us off when we weren`t taking off from his airfield or flying the plane he wanted us to! That really pissed everyone off! We left in droves!

WOW! that sounds completely obnoxious...i would have definitely "had some fun" with this guy prior to getting banned from his server
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

evrything Bogushead sez about "full switch" servers is true...

check out FISC (Full Immersion Squadron Community) basically it's an association of pilots and squads that fly full-switch...they network together and it makes it easier to find like minded simmers

http://gofisc.com/

SnailRunner
02-13-2006, 01:23 PM
This is where i fly online, and other sqdn`s i have been involved with did it around the same concept....its not about what you put in the maps, its about how its used....

We run a "fun" campaign, the Japanese gets limitet support from the Germans, and the Russians are involved to, nothing to do with history (the way use it) but with abit work on a storyline, ideas about plausible numbers and with abit understanding about history you can cook something toghter that is interesting without blowing it out of proportions...woops...soory got carried away...here is the link to our news section, we have been shut down for abit cause extencive work on new campaign and web site + the story line have been redone...

http://www.virtual-air.dk/NEWS.htm

Stigler_9_JG52
02-13-2006, 01:55 PM
I can see the entire depth and breadth of online flying is covered here. I agree with most of it to some degree.

First and foremost, I would say flying online beats "the box" because of the human element. Pluses and minuses. As someone said, any human is more interesting than AI, both on the plus and minus ends of the skill continuum. People who "only fly the box" are deluding themselves if they think the AI is testing their abilities better. And I suspect most of them are really just insecure; they think they lose some part of their manhood or whatever because they lose to some other human online. PFFFFF. That's idiotic; we ALL get shot down online sometimes. ALL of us, from the best guys (seldom) to the worst guys (all the time).

I also agree about the difficulty options having a big effect on the "maturity" and "quality" of the players. Quake flyers have no attention span and no propensity to take on a challenge or a learning curve, so "Wonder Woman", low realism, no-point-to-it-all servers are gonna be full of snotty-nosed 13-year olds with foul mouths. However, some of the "historical" servers definitely could be better designed on average: they show an alarming ignorance of history in their planesets (hard to find any early or mid-war servers of any consequence), their missions, their map choices, etc. A really well done historical map with a variety of good missions is gold when you can find it.

The online wars are the best option, but they also suffer from unimaginative design, and that is what leads to the whining and carping. There are ways to make the players care about the missions, and to craft missions fairly using historic guidelines. But so far, none of the online wars has hit that sweetspot. Still, flying a flawed online war still beats most dogfight rooms by a mile.

HarlockGN
02-13-2006, 03:05 PM
online dogfights is basically like playing quake with wings. Simply put, full realism or not, you go in and try to stack on frags.
It's a game, nothing more, and gets boring fast.

Stigler_9_JG52
02-13-2006, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by HarlockGN:
online dogfights is basically like playing quake with wings. Simply put, full realism or not, you go in and try to stack on frags.
It's a game, nothing more, and gets boring fast.

That's YOUR version, and I think a narrow vision at that.

I have seen the Airquake arenas too...

but have also seen well-designed ones with a variety of ground targets, well-conceived limited planesets, well-written briefs, a good time limit to work within and a point to the proceedings. AND with score schedules that rewarded all kinds of activity, including RTB. In these setups, fighter jocks and mudmovers alike could coexist and come in contact with each other in fairly realistic ways.

It's all there, it's just up to the authors to use it. I would also say that it's the designers' fault that players and would-be DF and co-op designers don't get some tips and direction on how to create better setups; creating a stupid and silly DF takes mere minutes, and is in fact, TOO easy to do. That makes these kinds of "arenas" too common.

HarlockGN
02-13-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:

but have also seen well-designed ones with a variety of ground targets, well-conceived limited planesets, well-written briefs, a good time limit to work within and a point to the proceedings. AND with score schedules that rewarded all kinds of activity, including RTB. In these setups, fighter jocks and mudmovers alike could coexist and come in contact with each other in fairly realistic ways.


And you still take off, chose a target of opportunity wether ground or flying, attack it, land. Rinse, repeat.
That's simply unhistorical. It might be fun, but even quake is fun, for a period.

mortoma
02-13-2006, 04:28 PM
If technology could take care of the lag issues, I might actually fly online in the first place. Oh, I do every now and then just to break the monotony. And flew online as far back as 1996 in the Air Warrior servers. I do disagree with Stigler, who generally has a simplistic viewpoint. He said that flying offline doesn't improve your skills. While it's true AI does not present as much challenge, you still get better flying whatever aircraft over time just because you want to do even better the next time. And if flying offline didn't allow you to improve, then why do I usually do so well against humans when I do fly online at those rare moments. I have met some of the more talented and well known pilots online and have shot most of them down, also have been shot down by most of them but I do hold my own for a "offliner". Let's face it Stigler, if you fly a plane a lot, whether it's online or off, you are going to get better at flying it, comprende?????

I have also gone online at times in coops as a gunner instead of pilot and proved that the AI defensive gunners are not so great after all and that us humans can be better. I flew B-17 Fying Fortress II long enough to aquire tremendous skill as a gunner.

To answer the question the thread starter asked, I'd have to say I like the human comraderie you experience online with other fliers. Still won't fly online much though because I can't pause the action and as I mentioned, I really hate lag!!! And I do mean any lag!!! Also get far worse stutter online since most servers are geared for those who have a monster PC. Mine was built in 2001 and can't handle all that much!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 05:15 PM
Well, I think that a lot of the fault with the drabness associated with DF lies with Oleg and co...don't flame me, just hear me out;
there aren't a lot of options when it comes to multiplayer. It's either a long coop mission, or a quick DF mission, and both of them play the same way.

For instance, here's an idea: reward people for sticking in teams. Add a "select wingman" option, where you and your wingman automatically spawn near each other on the airfield. Maybe even have a mid-air spawn option, sort of like a tag team; you respawn in the air within five miles of your wingman if he's in an engagement and you got shot down.

Or, add more quick, historical option. Have an objective based system in the DF servers, where you automatically get points for killing enemy ground troops, or hell, have it where you will eventually WIN if you kill all the enemy's ground equipment. Thatis VERY easy to do, and should have already been included IMO. (I think it is, but not standard, its up to the admin downloading some other progs or w/e).

Here's another idea; we already have those "dividing lines" across the maps; why not make them dynamic? Line them with troops and such, and as troops get destroyed, the line advances. When it reaches the enemy airfield, you win.


See, part of the blame lies with the immature players and the lack of good missions, but a large part of it lies with Maddox for not supplying the right tools and pre-packaged gameplay right out of the box. It's a great sim, but you can't just have two game types. That's like an FPS having only Deathmatch and CTF.

P.S. My mind was elsewhere as I was writing this, so sorry if it's a little bit hard to understand.

Stigler_9_JG52
02-13-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by HarlockGN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:

but have also seen well-designed ones with a variety of ground targets, well-conceived limited planesets, well-written briefs, a good time limit to work within and a point to the proceedings. AND with score schedules that rewarded all kinds of activity, including RTB. In these setups, fighter jocks and mudmovers alike could coexist and come in contact with each other in fairly realistic ways.


And you still take off, chose a target of opportunity wether ground or flying, attack it, land. Rinse, repeat.
That's simply unhistorical. It might be fun, but even quake is fun, for a period. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmph, I suggest you do some more reading, bud, specifically on the Eastern Front. That's what singles and pairs of LW pilots did on a regular basis on all sectors of the Eastern Front. Freie Jagd is what that was called. "Free Hunt" if you have no background in the German language.

So, care to modify that off-the-cuff statement?

Stigler_9_JG52
02-13-2006, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
If technology could take care of the lag issues, I might actually fly online in the first place. Oh, I do every now and then just to break the monotony. And flew online as far back as 1996 in the Air Warrior servers. I do disagree with Stigler, who generally has a simplistic viewpoint. He said that flying offline doesn't improve your skills. While it's true AI does not present as much challenge, you still get better flying whatever aircraft over time just because you want to do even better the next time. And if flying offline didn't allow you to improve, then why do I usually do so well against humans when I do fly online at those rare moments. I have met some of the more talented and well known pilots online and have shot most of them down, also have been shot down by most of them but I do hold my own for a "offliner". Let's face it Stigler, if you fly a plane a lot, whether it's online or off, you are going to get better at flying it, comprende?????

I have also gone online at times in coops as a gunner instead of pilot and proved that the AI defensive gunners are not so great after all and that us humans can be better. I flew B-17 Fying Fortress II long enough to aquire tremendous skill as a gunner.

To answer the question the thread starter asked, I'd have to say I like the human comraderie you experience online with other fliers. Still won't fly online much though because I can't pause the action and as I mentioned, I really hate lag!!! And I do mean any lag!!! Also get far worse stutter online since most servers are geared for those who have a monster PC. Mine was built in 2001 and can't handle all that much!!!!!!!!!!!!

You misquote me, mortoma: I did not say that flying offline only "didn't improve one's skills". I said it didn't TEST them as much as your average online flier. Because AI uses routines that can be fairly easily learned and anticipated after some flying time, it gets pretty easy to figure out. only the things AI can do that the player's plane can't follow, those are the only things you can't do anything about.

If you're a rank newbie, and fly IL-2 only boxed, if you're a good study, sure, you'll get better. But not as good as if you spent the same time online flying against LIVING pilots, or flying under the tutelage of a pilot who could teach you a lot more, and a lot faster than any AI routine.

HarlockGN
02-13-2006, 06:25 PM
Not at all, my "know it all" friend, i read quite enough without being encouraged to do it, thank you.
I really doubt a whole battlefield in wich EVERY plane involved is performing a nice, happy picnic-like free hunt has any hint of realism. Can be a short-lived fun game, can help let off some steam after a day of work, but it's far from being a "simulation".
The interesting factor of an online simulation is to work together with a team to acquire one or more objectives. That's what matters in a war, or in a simulation of a war.
The outcome of a battle is sure not decided by a score board.
If the human factor counts just into having some smarter targets i can easily give that up for the immersion of a well made offline campaign.
It's not worth it to put up with the usual quakers with wings that ALWAYS come up to just take off, find a target, kill, land, rinse, repeat.

Stigler_9_JG52
02-13-2006, 06:43 PM
Well, I agree with some of what you say; "all plane" planesets are pretty stupid. Fault the author,not me. But, you're still wrong if you insist that doing a free hunt on a DF server is de facto "ahistorical". It simply is not.

It *should* happen in concert with bombing, with group efforts, etc., as you say. But it is ONE of many mission profiles that is supported by history. And, the ones that are missing from DF servers CAN be easily written in and populated with front lines, ground forces, objectives, etc. So, it's not that DF servers are so "quakish" by themselves. Most are that way because they're lazily researched and poorly written.

But you knew that already, and are just here to argue with me because I'm not fawning over this like so many others. Whatever.

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 07:16 PM
Why doesn't the community just get together and release a mega-mission-patch that puts all sorts of fun new missions into one large package, geared for pick up and play dogfights? Would that be possible?

bogusheadbox
02-14-2006, 03:41 AM
What i don't understand here is all the finger pointing and accusations. I think the majority on this thread are missing the big picture.

Sure there are a few shortcommings such as static items in dog fights etc.

But look at what we do have. Its a blank canvas. A very GOOD canvas. Each DF map is fully workable over small to huge maps. You can add, remove, adjust to your hearts content for as many different missions, objectives and dogfights as you wish. Show me another game that will let you create such diversity.

What i find the problem with maps is, the limitations they put in for the fear of falling FPS's.

People like to run water =3even 4, perfect settings, maxed out resolution and still expect to play online without a FPS hit when AA, AAA starts erupting. And that is where the problem lies.
I find that bases are too poorly defended. Theis creates the following problems.
1. People get angry about vulchers as a lone plane can scoot in and have a field day. Attacking an enemy airfield stops being a highly dangerous activity and becommes an easy point scoring ability. Which unfortunately makes people care too much about points and makes it easier to fly solo, which of course SHOULD NOT be the case. I beleive vulching should be allowed in servers but a base must have awsome defense. But we cannot put the defense in becuase people whinge as they are pushing the graphical ability of the sim to the max.

2. Poor defense of bases DOES NOT encourage the tactical movements usually associated with assaulting and overtaking an enemy airfield.
(a) If a base is too easy to appraoch, then there is no need for high altitude bombing missions to supress the enemy area. No organised high altitude bombing runs, means no need for co-ordinated bombers and escorts and / or possible diversionary aircraft. (b) Lack of required cohesion between the plane set means there is no real necessity on having a diverse plane set (c) people will fly in small lone ranger groups (d) the server misses out on the fabulous hagh altitude Bomber / Escort / Enemy fighter battles. (e) server looses immersion.

3. Maps need more than one, preferably 3 spawn bases.
Nothing is worse than having almost no defense on a base. And as you try to take off, its continually pomelled by enemy fire. Once you do manage to take off you are instantly swarmed upon by countless enemies swooping in with a montrous energy advantage. That is not fun. If there is multiple spawn points then one side can target a specific base and attempt to overrun it. if it does become over run, the enmy then must pull back to a safer base in order to launch a defensive. This creates the following.
(a) Allows a constant area of different objectives. (b) gives a secure spawn point (c) simulates the movement of the front line.

I could go on and on about what maps are lacking in for the immersion factor. But to reitterate my first point about accusations of this and that, and finger pointing as to why people may not be satisfied with some areas of online play. I can only deduce that half the problem is the players them selves. And this is why.

Some players will be nobs. You can't help that. You get that everywhere you go.
Players whinge about lag. But wonder why they have lag when they are running their computers maxed out.
With players whinging of lag, map makers have to keep content low in order to accomadate those that are overrunning their machines.
With less content, less objectives and less danger to the pilot. The pilot becomes bored and does what he want to amuse himself.

Like i have said. This game is a brilliant blank canvass. Its the players that provide the content. If you have no immagination or co-ordination. Then it is mostly you that is making that server suck. Simple as that.

jds1978
02-14-2006, 04:00 AM
am i the only one who thinks that taking off from an Airfield that is under attack is a total blast? No, really...it's fun a rewarding

zyotich
02-14-2006, 04:00 PM
I guess I really like the idea of cooperation and historical realism, I mainly fly cockpit only O/L, but I'm having a hard time finding a good server with clear objectives and flyers willing to complete them. I would love to join a squadron but I'm afraid I don't have enough time to commit to it. As it is I kind of play when I can squeeze in an hour now and then. Any suggestions on where I might fit in? I loved the Wingman idea of spawning nearby, etc. anything to incorporate more teamwork would be more fun I think.

Airmail109
02-14-2006, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Unknown_Target:
Well, I think that a lot of the fault with the drabness associated with DF lies with Oleg and co...don't flame me, just hear me out;
there aren't a lot of options when it comes to multiplayer. It's either a long coop mission, or a quick DF mission, and both of them play the same way.

For instance, here's an idea: reward people for sticking in teams. Add a "select wingman" option, where you and your wingman automatically spawn near each other on the airfield. Maybe even have a mid-air spawn option, sort of like a tag team; you respawn in the air within five miles of your wingman if he's in an engagement and you got shot down.

Or, add more quick, historical option. Have an objective based system in the DF servers, where you automatically get points for killing enemy ground troops, or hell, have it where you will eventually WIN if you kill all the enemy's ground equipment. Thatis VERY easy to do, and should have already been included IMO. (I think it is, but not standard, its up to the admin downloading some other progs or w/e).

Here's another idea; we already have those "dividing lines" across the maps; why not make them dynamic? Line them with troops and such, and as troops get destroyed, the line advances. When it reaches the enemy airfield, you win.


See, part of the blame lies with the immature players and the lack of good missions, but a large part of it lies with Maddox for not supplying the right tools and pre-packaged gameplay right out of the box. It's a great sim, but you can't just have two game types. That's like an FPS having only Deathmatch and CTF.

P.S. My mind was elsewhere as I was writing this, so sorry if it's a little bit hard to understand.

That is good! Perhaps in BOB we should have an online tracking system like BF2.....but you can only increase your rank, by working in teams.....and to make it more amusing....if your wingman gets shot down you lose points....perhaps with increased rank youd be able to start planning missions and such, thing is there would have to be a motive for working in teams and so therefore a motive for gaining rank.....

PS woooo 1000 posts

xTHRUDx
02-14-2006, 08:48 PM
can't find any servers to fly on? Have you tried Historia? all the maps have alot of research behind them as to the units that where involved. the difference is that skin DL is on and we wear the skins of those units so we can "up" the immersion factor. this skins for all the missions can be DL'ed from the servers site.
www.Gozr.net/iocl (http://www.Gozr.net/iocl)

zyotich
02-16-2006, 11:07 PM
Thanks, I'll check it out. Full real I see, well, I'll try not to get lost.

georgeo76
02-17-2006, 01:30 AM
If your looking for a recreation of history, then your better off flying by yourself. And I say that as someone who never flys offline.

Dogfight servers are popular and fun. While it's true what Stigler said about the free hunts, dogfight servers are nothing like what a WWII pilot would have experienced. There is almost no teamwork on dogfight servers. If you see 2 aircraft, one enemy, one friendly, your in competition with both. There is also the usual bad behavior, poor sportsmanship, ect. The advantage of DF servers is that you start and stop when you like and have a wide variety of choices.

Cooperative servers are much better. You tend to fly in groups that battle other groups. You have a single mission and everyone starts together. It draws on a much wider range of skills than dogfights. But it's still not ideal. There are still bad attitudes, just much less frequent. The biggest drawbacks to the Cooperative servers is they are inconvenient. You have to wait while a crowd gathers, wait again while everyone selects an aircraft, and then after all that, you might get shot down or crash only seconds into the mission.

Coops are much less popular than DF. I think this is mostly due to their inconvenience, plus most newbies are reluctant to fly coops because it's a team effort and they have performance anxiety.

I fly cooperative missions (almost) exclusively. I prefer them because they recreate the WWII pilot experience (almost, sometimes better) than the offline mission, plus you get to have real opponents. Sometimes you even come away with a high fidelity war story, history come alive. And isn't that why we play these games to begin w/?

SeaFireLIV
02-17-2006, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
Sometimes you even come away with a high fidelity war story, history come alive. And isn't that why we play these games to begin w/?

nah, some play to have `fun`.

Sorry, just had to say that, cos some dumb kid`s bound to pop up with it. But i`m like you, I play to recreate an experience of a fighter pilot in WWII and this is another reason why OFFLINE cannot be disregarded, as I said before, offline let`s you get on with a realistic campaign where everyone concentrates on beating the enemy and there`s no hanging around, the AI also does its best to follow orders within its limited ability. Of course, when ONLINE works well in say an online campaign with Humans, then it`s naturally better, but the cost to get to that can sometimes be prohibitive, ie, the waiting, the Human silliness you sometimes get, not following orders, whining (pilots just had to deal with what they got, AI don`t whine) etc...

SeaFireLIV
02-17-2006, 04:38 AM
I should also add that humans can become too good and too careful online which can mean a coop mission becomes a long flight of nothingness.

yesterday, our Squad flew around for what must have been half an hour (maybe longer) looking for the enemy. We were in Spits looking for enmy German fighters - these guys were mostly of a good honourable squadron too.

Unfortunately, these guys play such a careful game that it took ages to find them, cos they always fly ultra high and when we finally did meet them, we could never catch them cos they`d just extend away ad-infintum or regain their superior alt (which our spits version cannot attain)and slowly pick us off. After 10 minutes of chasing, we decided to retreat as they had the constant advantage. This happens quite a lot. Of course, it gets you to know your m8s as well as your plane...

An hour`s worth of nothing much really. The problem is in real life, Jerry would have to follow orders and come down at some point, but online, well, there`s no Herman goering to force them to ... Unless you consider Hristo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Not complaining, but just saying how offline can often get on with it better.

Bearcat99
02-17-2006, 07:22 AM
I enjoy flying offline and online.... but I prefer coops. Or scripted DF servers... where you have to either try to take out ground targets while they are defended by the other side or something like that. I really dont like general DF servers... too much like the boring old FFAs on the zone.

MystiqBlackCat
02-17-2006, 08:58 AM
Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Positive:
1) As already mentioned flying against another human player is a rush, especially if you get into a good melee and manage to down them. Very few games that I have played can equal the sense of accomplishment I get when I down someone online.

2) Joining a squad is the best thing that I have done to enhance my own expierence in IL-2. We are a member of FISC and I only fly full switch servers even when by myself. Flying with these guys in CoT and taking part in planned jabo missions and having our squad dominate an area of the battle field due to skill and teamwork is just awesome. And they are a great bunch of guys too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
3)Mission oriented servers are a blast, if the only thing that was avialable were DF servers I would probably just be playing DCG missions all the time.

Negative(s):
1) A big gripe that I have been having for a couple months is the planesets that are available online. The other day I was in a server that will remain unnamed that had Tempests in a 42-43 plane set. Nothing blue had was competitive with that. The Me-262 is almost always shunned online even though it saw service and has confimed kills.

Thats really my only gripe about flying online, hmmm and it doesn't seem that hard to fix either hmmm.........