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BigganD
12-29-2003, 02:30 PM
Type High-altitude fighter

Powerplant Junkers Jumo 213E-1 12-cylinder, liquid-cooled engine rated at 1,750hp
at take-off ( 2,050hp with MW 50 ) and 1,320hp at 32,800ft. ( 1,740hp
with GM 1 )
Armaments One 30mm, engine-mounted MK 108 cannon with 90 rounds of ammo,
two 20mm, wing-mounted MG 151 cannon with 175 rounds per gun
Speed:
Maximum speed 332mph at sea level ( 350mph with MW 50 ), 465mph at 29,530ft. ( with
MW 50 ), 472mph at 41,010ft. ( with GM 1 ), 311mph cruising speed
at 22,965ft.
Range 755 miles to 1,250 miles depending on speed and external tankage
Climb 3,445ft. per minute with MW 50 injection
Ceiling 48,550ft. with GM 1 injection
Dimensions:
Span 47ft. 4 1/2in.
Length 35ft. 1 2/3in.
Height 11ft. 1/4in.
Wing Area 250.8 sq. ft.
Weights:
Empty 8,642lbs.
Loaded 11,502lbs


and here is the prof that the fw190 was more than a match for the contemporary Spitfires, so dont make it like an Yak3 (ufo)

visit this homepage: http://www.-.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html

aviation history..
ask for more pages, ill send.. S!

No one is an ace!

BigganD
12-29-2003, 02:30 PM
Type High-altitude fighter

Powerplant Junkers Jumo 213E-1 12-cylinder, liquid-cooled engine rated at 1,750hp
at take-off ( 2,050hp with MW 50 ) and 1,320hp at 32,800ft. ( 1,740hp
with GM 1 )
Armaments One 30mm, engine-mounted MK 108 cannon with 90 rounds of ammo,
two 20mm, wing-mounted MG 151 cannon with 175 rounds per gun
Speed:
Maximum speed 332mph at sea level ( 350mph with MW 50 ), 465mph at 29,530ft. ( with
MW 50 ), 472mph at 41,010ft. ( with GM 1 ), 311mph cruising speed
at 22,965ft.
Range 755 miles to 1,250 miles depending on speed and external tankage
Climb 3,445ft. per minute with MW 50 injection
Ceiling 48,550ft. with GM 1 injection
Dimensions:
Span 47ft. 4 1/2in.
Length 35ft. 1 2/3in.
Height 11ft. 1/4in.
Wing Area 250.8 sq. ft.
Weights:
Empty 8,642lbs.
Loaded 11,502lbs


and here is the prof that the fw190 was more than a match for the contemporary Spitfires, so dont make it like an Yak3 (ufo)

visit this homepage: http://www.-.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html

aviation history..
ask for more pages, ill send.. S!

No one is an ace!

Zimbo88
12-29-2003, 03:17 PM
Yea,true.

BigganD
12-29-2003, 05:08 PM
http://www.aviation-history.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html

No one is an ace!

blabla0001
12-29-2003, 05:50 PM
Why do I have the feeling Zimbo and Biggan are the same person.

And what Mark Spitfire are you refering to?

I hope not the MK XIV, because that Mark matches up quit nicely to the FW190D and has a better turn rate and speed.
In the climb and dive they were both pretty much matched up with no real advantage over each other.

BigganD
12-29-2003, 07:18 PM
read at the hompage i posted..

No one is an ace!

VW-IceFire
12-29-2003, 09:54 PM
Yak 3's fall apart under FW190 firepower so their superb manuverability or not...if you have speed or you have them under your guns they are dead...quite dead.

The FW190 was a real shock to Spitfire V pilots...however the Spitfire V nor the FW190A-1-4 should be compaired to a Yak 3 either.

If Oleg manages the time to get us a Spitfire IX we'll have a very powerful bird that will be capable of competing against the late model FW190A's. As already mentioned the Spitfire XIV which is coming later will also be quite a bit of a match for the FW190 D9.

They all have their quirks but you should see USAAF/RAF/Luftwaffe fighters having similar tactics and not the relatively different tactics employed by VVS turn fighters.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Kirin_9.JG54
12-30-2003, 01:38 AM
Looks like this page draws most info of Janes - which is not always the best when it comes to LW facts... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.fw190.info/pics/kirinsig.jpg

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
read at the hompage i posted..

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You did not answer my question.

I guess you know nothing about the mid and late war Spitfires.

robban75
12-30-2003, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> hope not the MK XIV, because that Mark matches up quit nicely to the FW190D and has a better turn rate and speed.
In the climb and dive they were both pretty much matched up with no real advantage over each other.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Fw 190D-9 was faster than the Spit Mk XIV from the ground up to 6000m. And no Spitfire could match a D in a dive. In a righthand turn turnrates were similar. The highspeed manouverabilitiy was also better than that of the XIV. Comparing the XIV to the later marks of the D family, such as the D-11/12/13(which saw combat) the Mk XIV was in for more than a match. Nevertheless, the Mk XIV was a dangerous foe, especially for the young and inexperienced LW pilots late in the war.

[This message was edited by robban75 on Tue December 30 2003 at 04:10 AM.]

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 06:08 AM
I read that in a right hand turn the difference was less pronounced, not identical.

I also read that in a dive the FW190D9 is faster initially but when speed goes above 350mph the XIV gains on it again. (slightly that is)

I agree about the high speed manuevering being better on the FW190D9.

As for the climb rate, the FW190D9 is a bit slower then the XIV, as well in a full throttle zoom climb, where the XIV leaves the FW190D9 behind.

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 06:48 AM
robban75, how many D-11/12/13 were assigned combat units and which units, please?

Bremspropeller
12-30-2003, 07:40 AM
Milo, even the MW-50 equipped D-9 could outperform the Spit at low altitudes (if the pilot was good enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

There were about 100 D-11, D-12 and D-13 built.

Not much, but they were used in combat and proved themselves as superrior. Even the british were surprised by the D-13's performance in a show-fight against the Tempest V.



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

robban75
12-30-2003, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I also read that in a dive the FW190D9 is faster initially but when speed goes above 350mph the XIV gains on it again. (slightly that is).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was against the Fw 190A, not D. The D-9 was far superior to the A in a dive.

As for zoom climb, the D-9 would probably be equal or better than the Spit XIV from ground up to 6000m. Above that the Jumo 213A could not hope compete with the Griffon.

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 08:43 AM
Brem, do you have a breakdown of the numbers of each?

Units would be nice, so I can fill in some 'blanks'.

Bremspropeller
12-30-2003, 09:54 AM
Well, I can't give breakdown numbers, cause many a/c were just rebuilt/ converted V-prototypes.

for the D-11:
serial built a/c ~ 20 (Wnr. 220 001 - 220 020)
several a/c got converted (such as V55 and V56, V57, V58, V59, V60, V61)
flown in following units: JV44, Verbandsf√ľhrerschule D.d.J.,

for the D-12:
also several V-types converted to "D-12 standart"
Ernst Schr√¬∂der (II./JG 300) quotes that the Gruppenstab flew about three to five D-12s

for the D-13:
best known a/c till today: former A-8 (Stkz. BH+RM ; Wnr. 174013) converted to D-13 in late '44 - later said to be flown by Hans Goetz, Kdre. of JG26

All in all the are MAX. 100 a/c which is a rough estimation. But you know, many documents about those birds were destroyed and it's difficult to find anything about them.


BTW: D-11 and later series got the Jumo 213E or F engine and a new, wider VS-9 Junkers prop. (greater diameter and wider blades then the ones of the D-9's VS-111 prop).



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

[This message was edited by Bremspropeller on Tue December 30 2003 at 09:19 AM.]

robban75
12-30-2003, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
robban75, how many D-11/12/13 were assigned combat units and which units, please?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apart from the 7 prototypes of the D-11 I've found that 13 standard D-11's and 4 D-11's with EZ 42 gunsight was delivered to operational units and probably a few more were delivered in April 1945, it doesnt say which I'm afraid.

I haven't found any numbers on the D-12, but production was scheduled to to start in January 1945. There's a painting signed by Walter Krupinski attacking B-17's in a D-12. See below.

http://www.skyscapes.net/pics/postlethwaite/fw190d-12.jpg

There were about 30 Fw 190D-13's built and 20 of these were deployed with JG 26 and saw action.

There were no prototypes for the D-15 and about 15 Fw 190A-8 airframes were brought into DB's Schuttgart-Eftardingen factory in March 1945. Series production would start in Focke Wulf, Dornier, and Luther from April.
At least two were assigned to operational units and one W.Nr500645 was found by U.S. Army in heavily damaged condition.

BigganD
12-30-2003, 10:16 AM
Cappadocian_317..
Yes the early spits, but the 190D was a better fighter at 10.000+ then the MK XIV

No one is an ace!

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 10:33 AM
Thanks Brem, robban.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So it would seem that there was only a staffel or 2 of the later model Ds, depending on which model, saw 'combat'.

I will have to get that Dora book soon.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317..
But the 190D was a better fighter at 10.000+ then the MK XIV

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it wasn't.

The Spitfires were designed for high alt combat and where better high up then down low, that is why the LF models with the clipped wings where build, for low alt combat.

The reference I have seen listed the FW190D9 at max speed 685km/h while the Spitfire XIV has a max speed of 721km/h, and that up high.
As Robban has pointed out, the D9 was faster down low.
At all altitudes the XIV has a better turn rate then the D9 and as Robban also pointed out that at high alt the Griffon 65 engine performs better so the XIV will have a better climb rate up high as well.

The Griffon 65 can produce 2000+ HP at +18 boost, so far I have not seen any D9 that can do the same.

Bremspropeller
12-30-2003, 10:48 AM
Can sb. give me the title of this Dora book ?


I was referring to Rodeike's Fw190 book which may cause the differences between robban's any my "facts" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 11:06 AM
Brem, I believe it was SC who posted this new Dora book just resently.

The new forum seems to have just as lousy search funtion as the old forum.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

robban75
12-30-2003, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Can sb. give me the title of this Dora book ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was refering to Dietmar Hermann's book about the "Longnosed" Focke Wulf's. An excellent book.

I also took some info from Aerodetail 2 featuring the Fw 190D variants.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bremspropeller
12-30-2003, 11:12 AM
Allright..thanks

Gonna watch out for this one but unfortunately my wallet's on "low tide" right now... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


Milo, have you got Axel Urbanke's book about III./JG 54 and I.+II./JG26 ?

I know robban has it - great book with some interesting stories, such as "let's beat this damned AAA guy"... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

robban75
12-30-2003, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
The reference I have seen listed the FW190D9 at max speed 685km/h while the Spitfire XIV has a max speed of 721km/h, and that up high.
As Robban has pointed out, the D9 was faster down low.
At all altitudes the XIV has a better turn rate then the D9 and as Robban also pointed out that at high alt the Griffon 65 engine performs better so the XIV will have a better climb rate up high as well.

The Griffon 65 can produce 2000+ HP at +18 boost, so far I have not seen any D9 that can do the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 685km/h for the D-9 is at 7000m. At 5500m however it could reach 705km/h. At this altitude the Mk XIV could reach 655km/h. So in order for the Mk XIV to outperform the D-9 it had engage at higher altitudes.
With Jumo 213F equipped D's the Mk XIV could not compete at any altitude. The Jumo 213F equipped D-12 could reach 760km/h at 12500m. As a comparison, the Jumo 231A equipped D-9 could barely maintain 540km/h 12000m.

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 11:29 AM
I was talking about the D9 Robban, not the later models since none of these are in the game anyway.
Besides, one thing that gives the upper hand is alt over your enemy so I would not be wise to stay at 5500 meters because you can fly faster when your enemy is at 7000 meters, that way you already loose before the fight starts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But thanks for the info anyway.

robban75
12-30-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
-I was talking about the D9 Robban, not the later models since none of these are in the game anyway.

How I wish for the late D's to be present in FB!

-But thanks for the info anyway.

You're very welcome!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 11:38 AM
Like you Brem, the $$$ are on the low side, well not enough to go around.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The old 4 wheels needs replacing since it will take to much work($$$)to pass the enviremental testing this late spring. The scoot needs a new back tire and want to do some small custom work to it. Another long trip, (5000km+) is in the planning as well. As you see.....

ps. the book robban mentioned was the one SC mentioned.

CARBONFREEZE
12-30-2003, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Milo, have you got Axel Urbanke's book about III./JG 54 and I.+II./JG26 ?

I know robban has it - great book with some interesting stories, such as "let's beat this damned AAA guy"... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol. I'll have to get that one

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

BigganD
12-30-2003, 01:22 PM
Cappadocian_317

lol you said that the LF modells where made for low alt? well..didnt you see the forum name? FW 190 High-altitude fighter

S!

No one is an ace!

MiloMorai
12-30-2003, 02:12 PM
Brem, robban, since there is a certain VVS fighter already in FBhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, that was produced in VERY low numbers(single digit is it not?), there should be no reason why the other Dora models should not be included in FB.

JG26Red
12-30-2003, 03:03 PM
TA-152

Bremspropeller
12-30-2003, 03:46 PM
LoL..I don't want that Ta (jokingly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)..much too complicated...imagine all those knobs and buttons for the MW-50 and GM-1 http://www.jagdgeschwader68.goto-my.de/forum/html/emoticons/wacko.gif



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317

lol you said that the LF modells where made for low alt? well..didnt you see the forum name? FW 190 High-altitude fighter

S!

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you didn't read ANYTHING posted in this thread.

At high alt (7000+ meters) the Spitfire MKXIV out performs the FW190D9 in speed, climb, zoom climb and turn rate.

So basicly your going to cry your little eyes out when the Spitfire MKXIV is going to be added to this game. (If it is modelled correctly that is)

S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

JG26Red
12-30-2003, 04:10 PM
spitfire!?? what the hell is that???? is that the thing they where doing in the movie titanic???



LOL JK... P.S. by time the spitturd gets here, the TA will be here, and uh, that will fly circles around spitturd, especially at high alts...

robban75
12-30-2003, 04:11 PM
I wouldn't worry about the Spit XIV, if we get a correctly modelled Ta 152H-1 that is!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 04:26 PM
I don't worry about the Ta152 because it won't be available on my server, along with the rest of the exotic "didn't really see much/no action during WWII" planes. (Go229, P80, Yak9K just to name a few of the top of my head)

JG26Red
12-30-2003, 04:34 PM
whats your server?

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 04:44 PM
Your not playing on it, so it doesn't really matter now does it?

Besides, it's Password protected.

I don't want people on it that I don't know or don't want to know.

JG26Red
12-30-2003, 04:45 PM
LOL, u just sounded like my 7 year old brother lol... good luck too ya...

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 04:53 PM
No problem, I am having lost's of fun with my mates there.
No need for whiny whine boys who cry if their uber plane is not in the plane list or accuse every one that shoots them down of cheating.

That's what the dogfight servers are for.

JG26Red
12-30-2003, 04:55 PM
I dont care whats in the plane lists lol, i will fly something... i havent accused nobody of cheating!!! and i get shot down alot! lol sounds to me like you have had some bad expierences... hope everything works out for ya! later!

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 05:21 PM
Indeed, and I am not the only one.

So I play only with friends on closed servers.

BigganD
12-30-2003, 05:54 PM
Cappadocian_317

No i just take the Me262..and make the spits cry muhahaha

No one is an ace!

BigganD
12-30-2003, 05:57 PM
Ta152..why wont you have it on your servers? dont want to shot down? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No one is an ace!

pourshot
12-30-2003, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317

No i just take the Me262..and make the spits cry muhahaha

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be hard as we dont have the spitfire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317

No i just take the Me262..and make the spits cry muhahaha

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't even handle the Me262 correctly so I have nothing to worry about since you already complained about the blue planes being undermodelled and the red planes being overmodelled.

blabla0001
12-30-2003, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Ta152..why wont you have it on your servers? dont want to shot down? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

May I suggest you learn how to read basic English.
So far you showed you can't because I already said why.

tenmmike
12-30-2003, 09:25 PM
http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/D_9.jpg

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Hristo_
12-31-2003, 12:00 AM
As a dedicated Fw 190 type from many different sims, I consider a Spitfire (any mark) my favourite target.

Here's why...

Of course Spits can turn better, accelerate in level flight faster or have better sustained climb. It was like that with most contemporary versions (MkIX to A-4, MkIX late to A-8 and Mk XIV to D-9, with notable exception of MkV vs A-3).

But this is irrelevant in air combat that suits the Fw 190. Speed, snapshot ability and dive performance is all that matters. The Spit simply doesn't have it at all but extremely high altitudes. All a Fw 190 should do if at disadvantage is to point the nose down and get away.

To quote a frustrated Spitfire pilot: "...turning doesn't win air battles...".

1 on 1, Spit might give a hard time to a Fw 190, if 190 pilot decides to fight it out. Many vs many it is much easier for Fw 190 pilots, as this type of engagement suits 190 strengths.

Yes, D-9 is a better plane than Mk XIV, IMO. Not for dueling, but for fighting an air war. Simple, eh ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[This message was edited by Hristo_ on Tue December 30 2003 at 11:16 PM.]

BigganD
12-31-2003, 09:01 AM
Cappadocian_317
haha how do you know that i dont know how to fly blue planes? i allways fly them, and shot down wannabe aces in yak3 or other flying ufos, you fly the allied planes bucuse the blue planes are to hard for you

No one is an ace!

blabla0001
12-31-2003, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317
haha how do you know that i dont know how to fly blue planes? i allways fly them, and shot down wannabe aces in yak3 or other flying ufos, you fly the allied planes bucuse the blue planes are to hard for you

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because your whining about blue planes being undermodelled, this clearly shows that you have some problem with them.
On top of that you also feel all red planes are overmodelled, this stacks up on top of the fact you cannot handle things the way they are now.

LW planes are great planes since the 1.21 patch.

So if you are sooooooo good as you claim why do you complain?
People that complain are the ones that got their behind kick all the time.

And I fly red planes mostly because I live in a former Allied country.
I am even a member of a Squadron that was formed during WWII and still exists today.
A Squadron with a history, and since that history doesn't involve German planes I don't fly then that much.

JG26Red
12-31-2003, 09:50 AM
Iam in a former allied country too, but i dont fly allied planes,.. i fly the 190 because it is the best ALL Around fighter in game... its fast, durable and has probably best firepower of a WW2 fighter... but that is just all my opinnions thou...

capp dont be so mad? you seem to take this all alittle too personal...

blabla0001
12-31-2003, 09:54 AM
I am not mad, I find it rather funny to read BigganD responses.
They get dumber by the minute.

Well, I am off to the new years party.

Happy new year all.

JG26Red
12-31-2003, 09:55 AM
New years party? wow, its 11am by me, u must be somewhere else lol;...

blabla0001
12-31-2003, 10:00 AM
6 More hours to go here till 24:00 hours, so 6 more hours to get drunk and crazy in order to enter 2004 in my underwear or whatever might happen during that time.

Laterz.

BigganD
12-31-2003, 10:43 AM
Cappadocian_317

Yepp it is true Blue planes in 1.21 are good,I have allways fly with them, even in 1.0, did i say overmodelled? then i mean Yak3, it can take some times up to 6 mk 108 shots, and climb all the why until 99km/h, and you say that my responds are funny bucuse you get snapt and jump over that i write and start with somthing else, heh..you know what..Happy new year!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif need to go now!

No one is an ace!

robban75
12-31-2003, 04:45 PM
Well, It's been 2004 for about 45 minutes here! Let's all wish for peace on earth and a paycheck with higher numbers on it!(Butcher bird books are expensive you know!)http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Happy New Year everyone!!

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-31-2003, 06:03 PM
What makes you think that the Spitfire will be modeled like a Yak? I assume you think it may be overmodeled by that statement. IMO the Spitfire will be modeled in the same way the US planes were. Undermodeled in the beginning then slowly corrected after tons of threads and charts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-31-2003, 06:11 PM
Im still hoping for the P-47M or N. It will make for a good fight vs the TA-152. But IMO the TA-152 will be nothing more then the new uber n00b plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (dawns fire suit) lol!

blabla0001
01-01-2004, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Cappadocian_317

Yepp it is true Blue planes in 1.21 are good,I have allways fly with them, even in 1.0, did i say overmodelled? then i mean Yak3, it can take some times up to 6 mk 108 shots, and climb all the why until 99km/h, and you say that my responds are funny bucuse you get snapt and jump over that i write and start with somthing else, heh..you know what..Happy new year!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif need to go now!

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been flying blue planes since the original IL2 Beta tests.
I have seen the entire evolution of all the planes in this game.
The only planes I never fly are the big bombers, that is just not my cup of tea, other then that I have flown all planes in the game and tried all the moves and tactics I learned or read about.

As for your complaint about the Yak3 and the MK108.
Here is a news flash for you, this problem is present on ALL planes with ALL large cannons.

If you bothered to do some testing first you might have found that out yourself but noooooo, you choose to come and whine about your precious MK108 not killing at every strike.

The problem is that there are some parts of the planes cannot be damaged at all and other parts can, when you hit these parts with large caliber weapons nothing happens.
With 20mm or machine guns is less pronounced because they have a higher rate of fire, less recoil and a larger scatter field so they will hit the vital areas anyway.

For example the FW190's and Bf109's, the FW190 has an indestructable inner part of the main wings and 3/4 of the tail section behind the cockpit.
Only the tip of the tail can be shot off while the BF109 can loose the entire tail section right behind the cockpit and the entire main wings.
This makes the BF109 look very flimsy compared to the FW190.

There is also a problem with the damage of the HE shells as far as I can see.
Since the Allied high caliber weapons also have AP rounds it's less pronounced compared to the MK108 because it only uses HE and incidairy tracers that also don't work btw.
But then it's the same for all guns that used incidairy munitions like the .303 machine guns on the Hurricane or the .50 on the US planes.
I have read documents, spoke to WWII RAF Pilots and saw footage of this and all pointed out that the difference between a damaged plane and a kill was the use of the highly effective incidairy munitions.

I think it's a limitation in the current game engine and I hope it will be resolved in the up comming BoB game.

BigganD
01-01-2004, 11:56 AM
hmm why dont you open a forum and post this to all?

No one is an ace!

blabla0001
01-01-2004, 12:37 PM
Because it has been discussed before, multiple times even.

BigganD
01-01-2004, 03:19 PM
oook, do you think that they will fix that?

No one is an ace!

BigganD
01-01-2004, 03:20 PM
lol you know that some ppl says that blue planes are too overmodelled haha*

No one is an ace!

blabla0001
01-01-2004, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
oook, do you think that they will fix that?

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, it seems like a limitation in the game engine so I guess not, but I am not 100% sure since I am not the programmer of the game engine.

blabla0001
01-01-2004, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
lol you know that some ppl says that blue planes are too overmodelled haha*

No one is an ace!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some are on some level, just like some red planes are.

Big deal, as long as it's not way out there I really don't care.

Hot_Space2
01-03-2004, 05:06 AM
You Guy's seem to forget that the Spit F.21 saw Service in the last few month's of the War, and it was better then the Spit XIV and any 190D...

Hot Space

robban75
01-03-2004, 05:32 AM
AFAIK, the F.21 came too late to see any action during WW2, but it was in production. It's performance was at best equal to the late Fw 190D variants. Similar climbrate and lower topspeed. The Spit 21's highspeed manouverability was much improved though.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Hot_Space2
01-03-2004, 01:25 PM
Almost right there, M8http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

On January 1945, No 91 Squadron based at Manston were the first Unit to have the Spit's F.21's. On the 26th April '45 they shot the hell out of a German Sub and sunk it...

Hot Space

Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a Sticky Bun....

robban75
01-03-2004, 02:04 PM
Learning something new everyday! Thanks for the info!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Bremspropeller
01-03-2004, 02:50 PM
Yeah Hotspace, but I doubt they defeated the sub in air combat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

robban75
01-03-2004, 05:27 PM
Here are some of the H√¬∂henj√¬§ger projects! Cool looking, but not good enough.

Fw 190 V18

http://www.nahobbies.com/images/rvimages/rvk48005.jpg


Fw 190 V30

http://www.nahobbies.com/images/rvimages/rvk48006.jpg

Fw 190C-0 (V21)

http://www.nahobbies.com/images/rvimages/rv48003.jpg

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Hot_Space2
01-03-2004, 07:01 PM
It depends if it had Wings or Flipper'shttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hot Space

Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a Sticky Bun....

Vipez-
01-05-2004, 10:03 AM
You can't beat the Spitwhiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

190 D-9 vs Spit MK14 is a tight fight, both have their advantages and disadvantages.. When we get Spit in the game Spit will have the greatest advantage compared to FW-190: Forward visibility.

If 190 would have correct view in FB, i still rather would take the Dora over Spit, it should be more manouvarable at higher speeds and accelerates faster in dives allowing it to get away from the Spit. Spit has the advantage if the fight starts on equal altitudes, but B&Z in the 190 should work better.. Spit having better zoom climb than FW-190 sounds wierd to me.

Spitwhiners, just don't expect wonders from your beloved Spit.. If the fw190 had as good forward view as it should, even the Anton would eat Spits alive with its heavy firepower IMHO. I'm expecting the Spit to be like all soviet planes: fast, deadly, and agile.. but still not as formidable B&Z:ers as the german ones.

bazzaah2
01-05-2004, 10:38 AM
Just a quick question to Robban75 - were those designs you put up discarded in favour of Ta152 or were they separate projects?

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

MiloMorai
01-05-2004, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:

Spitwhiners, just don't expect wonders from your beloved Spit.. If the fw190 had as good forward view as it should, even the Anton would eat Spits alive with its heavy firepower IMHO. I'm expecting the Spit to be like all soviet planes: fast, deadly, and agile.. but still not as formidable B&Z:ers as the german ones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take a look at some of the cockpit views of the Spit posted. The Spit will have the same crappy un-realistic pilot view as the 190.

hotspace
01-05-2004, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
You can't beat the Spitwhiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

190 D-9 vs Spit MK14 is a tight fight, both have their advantages and disadvantages.. When we get Spit in the game Spit will have the greatest advantage compared to FW-190: Forward visibility.

If 190 would have correct view in FB, i still rather would take the Dora over Spit, it should be more manouvarable at higher speeds and accelerates faster in dives allowing it to get away from the Spit. Spit has the advantage if the fight starts on equal altitudes, but B&Z in the 190 should work better.. Spit having better zoom climb than FW-190 sounds wierd to me.

Spitwhiners, just don't expect wonders from your beloved Spit.. If the fw190 had as good forward view as it should, even the Anton would eat Spits alive with its heavy firepower IMHO. I'm expecting the Spit to be like all soviet planes: fast, deadly, and agile.. but still not as formidable B&Z:ers as the german ones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah........I suppose this is spontaneous and called WIThttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Listen Son, as I know and YOU know the Fw 190 isn't worth s‚£$t in FB as you can't fly it........so don't patronize, YOU'RE NOT GOOD AT IThttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hot Space

Antelope's for King!?!

Vipez-
01-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Still much better than of the FW-190 Milo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/spitpit22.jpg


__________________________


http://www.leosk.org/tiedostot/sig-pieni.jpg

blabla0001
01-05-2004, 02:19 PM
Hmmm, well maybe you guys missed this bit but.

Here is a quote from Gibbage:

"Fresh from Jeronimo.
Now!!! Before the flames start! I spoke with Jeronimo and he said #1, the bar is lowered, and #2 the gunsight is fixed! These are earlier pics before that. The IX pit is done as of today, and V will be done tomorrow"

That was after several people provided enough data to support our claim that there was no bar in front of the gunsight on the Spitfire.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/Spitfire%20Gun%20Sight%202.jpg

I obtained this pic from a guy at the Duxford museum after I send them a mail asking for pictures.

robban75
01-05-2004, 03:00 PM
(Bites tounge)

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

CARBONFREEZE
01-05-2004, 03:29 PM
wtf.. Oleg will accept a barless Spit cockpit (good thing) but he won't accept a redone (or he wont rework it himself) Fw190 cockpit... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

Bremspropeller
01-05-2004, 03:47 PM
Robban, this Fw190C-0 looks very nice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Have you got any further datas/ information about her ?



http://www.brooksart.com/Longnose.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

pourshot
01-05-2004, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:
wtf.. Oleg will accept a barless Spit cockpit (good thing) but he won't accept a redone (or he wont rework it himself) Fw190 cockpit... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

_Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!_

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were able to provide alot of very clear pictures that supported our claims that the gunsite was incorrect in the spit,I have not seen a single one showing a clear View of the 190 gunsite in relation to the bar.I do beleave it's wrong in FB but the pictures I have seen are sub standard.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

blabla0001
01-05-2004, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:
wtf.. Oleg will accept a barless Spit cockpit (good thing) but he won't accept a redone (or he wont rework it himself) Fw190 cockpit... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg had nothing to do with it.
Since the Spitfire cockpit was still in developement by Geronimo we provided the data before it was finished.
And the picture I obtained is as clear as water, it can't get any better then that.
If someone from the early Beta team mentioned this and asked a museum who have a FW190 with the gunsight still mounted to take a few pics it would have been changed as well I think.

All I saw so far are pics at a bad angle and/or bad quality or pics with no gunsight mounted.

pourshot
01-05-2004, 04:41 PM
Here is the spit gunsite debate thread

Spit pit debate (http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/551.html)

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

MiloMorai
01-05-2004, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Still much better than of the FW-190 Milo <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I think you need your eyes checked if you think the gunsight is blocked more on the Fw.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But,http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif it seems that will not be an issue with the mods done. Seems my asking for the gunsight view to be modelled more 'life like' was taken to heart. Now where is that Finnish character who said it was not possible to do?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As for those that say no proof has been put forward to have the pilot's gunsight view for the Fw changed, you all have very short memories.

blabla0001
01-05-2004, 05:06 PM
Then I must have missed those pics Milo.

I have seen a lot of rubbish and speculation pics.

Do you still have that clear crisp correct position with gunsight mounted FW190 cockpit pic Milo?
Because I would love to see it after all those threads and bogus pics.

Fehler
01-05-2004, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:
wtf.. Oleg will accept a barless Spit cockpit (good thing) but he won't accept a redone (or he wont rework it himself) Fw190 cockpit... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

_Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!_

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were able to provide alot of very clear pictures that supported our claims that the gunsite was incorrect in the spit,I have not seen a single one showing a clear View of the 190 gunsite in relation to the bar.I do beleave it's wrong in FB but the pictures I have seen are sub standard.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sub Standard? C'Mon now... You using those Allied Rose COlored Glasses again? The 190 IS wrong. Hell, Cyrix devoted an entire web site to showing the different revi's and how off the forward view of this game is. But they werent clear enough for you?

I am not going to argue about this. You can either believe truth or lie to yourself...

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehlersig.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

robban75
01-05-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bazzaah2:
Just a quick question to Robban75 - were those designs you put up discarded in favour of Ta152 or were they separate projects?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The V18 and V30 were testbeds for the Hirth exhaust turbocharger named TK 11. Both were powered by DB 603 engines but the V30 was later fitted with a Jumo powerplant and served as a prototype for the H-0 series. The large external turbochargers proved to make the airframe unstable and no performance enhancement was gained. The V18 reached 680km/h at 11000 meters hardly impressive.
The Fw 190C V16(not fitted with a Hirth turbocharger) could attain 725km/h at 7000m. It could also climb at 22m/sec. These speeds were reached in 1942.

The Fw 190C-0 V21 served as the third prototype for the Ta 152. It took to the air for the first time on 13 March 1944. It was powered by a standard Jumo 213A and featured a characteristic flame-damping system. That system decreased topspeed instead of increasing it and it was dropped.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

blabla0001
01-05-2004, 05:42 PM
The only pics I saw from Cyrix was this FW190 in South Africa that was in poor condition and without a revi mounted.

I guess I missed the good stuff, but then it was completely burried under flame posts and rubbish.

MiloMorai
01-05-2004, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
The only pics I saw from Cyrix was this FW190 in South Africa that was in poor condition and without a revi mounted.

I guess I missed the good stuff, but then it was completely burried under flame posts and rubbish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is this guy Cyrix, for I never saw any posts, or links, by him? I guess this is why you missed the good stuff.

pourshot
01-05-2004, 09:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
The only pics I saw from Cyrix was this FW190 in South Africa that was in poor condition and without a revi mounted.

I guess I missed the good stuff, but then it was completely burried under flame posts and rubbish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds like what I saw,did someone have better pics?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

pourshot
01-05-2004, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sub Standard? C'Mon now... You using those Allied Rose COlored Glasses again? The 190 IS wrong. Hell, Cyrix devoted an entire web site to showing the different revi's and how off the forward view of this game is. But they werent clear enough for you?

I am not going to argue about this. You can either believe truth or lie to yourself...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the Fw190 is wrong but in all honesty the pictures I saw were of low grade.Did you look at the link I gave showing the pics we used for the spit? now compare them to what you are talking about and you will see what I meen,And I like both german and allied planes so my glasses are clear.

look at this linkhere (http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/551.html)

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It