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HotelBushranger
12-30-2004, 03:35 AM
WHY, is there no aerodrome at Kokoda, on the New Guinea map, at 200.0/AI ?!?!??!?! For most of you people who woudlnt know, The New Guinea campaign for Australians, was like, Dunkirk, or Gallipoli in WW1, in terms of fighting agaisnt incrediably difficult odds, and succedding (But in Australias case, always given ****-all help). Basically, roughly 500 members of the raw, wet behind the ears 39th Militia Battalian, was sent to fight the most elite Japanese shock troops of the time, including the 144th Regiment of the South Seas Detached Force, which were involved in China, (including Nanking...). Now, to put it simply, our military leadership was disgustingly ignorant to the facts coming from soldiers, officers, veterans, and villagers from PNG. They demanded things, denied important military aid, i.e. mortars, which the Japs were using, hell they gave them bloody KHAKI! of all colours, khaki uniforms from the Middle East, just extra uniforms. They bloody stood out in the green jungle like a battalian of sore thumbs! Whislt the Japanese, has sufficent rations, ammo, weapons, equipment, and even camouflage uniforms, which General Sir Blamey didn't think would be necessary!, we wernt given any of those luxuries. We had to endure the worst of the worst, and that wasn't even with the fighting. Suicidal attacks were were demanded by GHQ, when outnumbered 3 to 1 at the beginning, but then as Japanese reinforcements arrived, that ratio was GREATLY increased. All up, 20,000 troops had been deployed there, whilst only the 2/14 and 2/14 of the 7AIF were given to us, rising our total to some what, 1500, 2000!, as PNG was deemed "unimportant and unsignificant" by Gen. MacArthur. So, our brave bloody Diggers were in there, only able to conduct ambushes and retreats due to the pitifully poor number of men, which inflicted heavy casualties in the Japs. Haha hell, after the war, captured Jap documents estimated our forces to be 6000! Far out mate. And Kokoda, a tiny village on a plateau, had the only airbase within 4 days any direction, therefore was equally important to the Aussies and the Japanese. Some of the most bloody fighting imaginable was conducted there, and possession of Kokoda changed hands several times. Some ****ed good leaders were lost there, including Lieutenant Colonel Bill Owen, who had escaped from Rabaul several months earlier. OT from the fighting at Kokoda, but perhaps even worse fighting was conducted at Isurava, another village. Towards the end of the campaign, when the Japanese where pushed back to Gona and Buna, we were ordered to do daylight frontal assaults on fortified concrete bunkers, which were supported by artillery, whilst we got, again, nothing. Its the kind of disgusting lack of care, and complete INSANITY by GHQ, with such 'leaders', as Gen MacArthur, Gen. Blamey, Major Gen. Morris, that makes MY BLOOD BOIL!


A LOT of good men were lost in PNG, UNECESSARILY, which is the thing that angers me so much.

Therefore, I respectfully request an airfield to be put in the Kokoda village, perhaps in the next patch, because no only, as i have said, was it stragetically a decisive airfield to control, but some ragged bloody heroes lost there lives, and it would be in respect for the thousands of casualties, on both sides.

PS: Forgive my language, but this is something VERY important to me.

HotelBushranger
12-30-2004, 03:35 AM
WHY, is there no aerodrome at Kokoda, on the New Guinea map, at 200.0/AI ?!?!??!?! For most of you people who woudlnt know, The New Guinea campaign for Australians, was like, Dunkirk, or Gallipoli in WW1, in terms of fighting agaisnt incrediably difficult odds, and succedding (But in Australias case, always given ****-all help). Basically, roughly 500 members of the raw, wet behind the ears 39th Militia Battalian, was sent to fight the most elite Japanese shock troops of the time, including the 144th Regiment of the South Seas Detached Force, which were involved in China, (including Nanking...). Now, to put it simply, our military leadership was disgustingly ignorant to the facts coming from soldiers, officers, veterans, and villagers from PNG. They demanded things, denied important military aid, i.e. mortars, which the Japs were using, hell they gave them bloody KHAKI! of all colours, khaki uniforms from the Middle East, just extra uniforms. They bloody stood out in the green jungle like a battalian of sore thumbs! Whislt the Japanese, has sufficent rations, ammo, weapons, equipment, and even camouflage uniforms, which General Sir Blamey didn't think would be necessary!, we wernt given any of those luxuries. We had to endure the worst of the worst, and that wasn't even with the fighting. Suicidal attacks were were demanded by GHQ, when outnumbered 3 to 1 at the beginning, but then as Japanese reinforcements arrived, that ratio was GREATLY increased. All up, 20,000 troops had been deployed there, whilst only the 2/14 and 2/14 of the 7AIF were given to us, rising our total to some what, 1500, 2000!, as PNG was deemed "unimportant and unsignificant" by Gen. MacArthur. So, our brave bloody Diggers were in there, only able to conduct ambushes and retreats due to the pitifully poor number of men, which inflicted heavy casualties in the Japs. Haha hell, after the war, captured Jap documents estimated our forces to be 6000! Far out mate. And Kokoda, a tiny village on a plateau, had the only airbase within 4 days any direction, therefore was equally important to the Aussies and the Japanese. Some of the most bloody fighting imaginable was conducted there, and possession of Kokoda changed hands several times. Some ****ed good leaders were lost there, including Lieutenant Colonel Bill Owen, who had escaped from Rabaul several months earlier. OT from the fighting at Kokoda, but perhaps even worse fighting was conducted at Isurava, another village. Towards the end of the campaign, when the Japanese where pushed back to Gona and Buna, we were ordered to do daylight frontal assaults on fortified concrete bunkers, which were supported by artillery, whilst we got, again, nothing. Its the kind of disgusting lack of care, and complete INSANITY by GHQ, with such 'leaders', as Gen MacArthur, Gen. Blamey, Major Gen. Morris, that makes MY BLOOD BOIL!


A LOT of good men were lost in PNG, UNECESSARILY, which is the thing that angers me so much.

Therefore, I respectfully request an airfield to be put in the Kokoda village, perhaps in the next patch, because no only, as i have said, was it stragetically a decisive airfield to control, but some ragged bloody heroes lost there lives, and it would be in respect for the thousands of casualties, on both sides.

PS: Forgive my language, but this is something VERY important to me.

flemsha
12-30-2004, 03:59 AM
Here Here!

Never a more important battle has been faught in Australia's history. It is to those brave men who we here in Australia owe our freedom.

It is thanks to these men that the Japanese got no further than the hills within sight of Port Moresby, and that their troops would only step foot on Australian soil as prisoners, never as conquerers.

clint-ruin
12-30-2004, 05:09 AM
Couple of things appear to limit the representation of terrain in the Il2 line.

The map generation process is straight from a bitmap image which is translated into a 3d heightmap. This style of thing is pretty infamous for producing flat terrain, each colour gradient and position of a pixel can only be a certain amount of difference in height from the next or you end up with absurd looking valleys and rivers [see some of the other maps where rivers through hills have been attempted]. You can see some of the PF maps have attempted to get rivers running over hills into the map and it looks ridiculous.


Hopefully at some point we will be able to go back there in the new BOB games engine if Maddox ever gets the crazy idea to do the pacific theatre again.

On Kokoda itself, I got given a copy of "A Bastard of a Place: The Australians in Papua" by Peter Brune this christmas. Very, very, very highly recommendable based on what I've read of it so far - good review of it [and the cheapest price I could find on the net so far] here:

http://www.boomerangbooks.com/reviews/bastard_of_a_place.htm

Regarding the airfields - you can place static airfields whereever you like on the map [haven't tried putting them on hills yet myself though] in the games Full Mission Builder. You'll find them under the "stationary ships" section of the object listing. Doesn't help you much in the stock campaigns unfortunately.

Athosd
12-30-2004, 06:29 AM
HotelBushRanger - chill mate. War is all hell, but Pacific Fighters is a game.
Did you also notice that the Owen Stanleys are only about 1/3 their height IRL - and that the trail appears clearly right across them (looks like a dirt road).
The Kokoda strip may have been overlooked because of its limited role in air combat operations - though it was critical strategically (enabling airlifting of supplies and reinforcements).

Cheers

Athos

HotelBushranger
12-30-2004, 07:40 AM
Yeah I no I no, lol i realised that bout half an hour after my post. With the problems with mountains and rivers and all that, Kokoda was on a plateau as a matter of fact, lol, so it removes that problem. And yeah, war IS hell, but still, there are other small airfields around that area, and other areas, so i dont see the difficulty in not putting this one in.

'On Kokoda itself, I got given a copy of "A Bastard of a Place: The Australians in Papua" by Peter Brune this christmas. Very, very, very highly recommendable based on what I've read of it so far - good review of it [and the cheapest price I could find on the net so far] here:'

Another good book to read is Kokoda by Peter Fitzsimons. Seriously guys, READ it. Its a ****ed fine book, Petes a **** good author, tells the story brilliantly.

Cheers,
HBR

LEBillfish
12-30-2004, 07:52 AM
Well due to flying PF with the <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">*78th*Sentai</span> I'd like the PNG map to be correct in altitudes of ranges and fields as well. This includes Wewak, etc. to Rabul etc..

A second reason is that already we hear how "bored" some are getting with PF as the missions one can run are limited. This is WRONG in that most forget the battles over water only were to "help" the important action on land....Hence if you could do it in Europe/Russia the same type of missions could be flown here over land.


HOWEVER, I'd suggest if this is something you believe in to reduce the "volume (size)" of your post from a valid rant to a VERY brief request, and send it into 1C plus post in olegs ready room.

Just saying it here will doubtfully accomplish much except blow off steam.

MrOblongo
12-30-2004, 07:55 AM
I posted about the missing Kokoda Airfield long ago in Oleg`s Ready Room Forum. That map is the best of what we got...but still had missing airfield and some airfields that shoudnt be there in 1942...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=5731031542&r=5731031542#5731031542

HotelBushranger
12-30-2004, 10:19 AM
'HOWEVER, I'd suggest if this is something you believe in to reduce the "volume (size)" of your post from a valid rant to a VERY brief request, and send it into 1C plus post in olegs ready room.

Just saying it here will doubtfully accomplish much except blow off steam.'

Thanks for the tip mate, ill go give it to Oleg now. And oh well, had to blow off that steam. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif lol

clint-ruin
12-30-2004, 10:28 AM
I've browsed through the Fitzsimons book in a store before, looked interesting. I'll have to pick it up next time.

What you also might consider doing is sending off an email to Uberdemon of UQMG fame, and ask him to build his Papua template map with an static airfield object placed at Kokoda. Because Maddox aren't keen on using RTP to patch their games [or a similar raw byte-changer patching system], changes to maps involve downloading the whole bloody thing again and the PNG map is very big indeed.