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XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:36 PM
First cantilever wing monoplane fighter with retractable landing gear.
Saw frontline service in WWII through 1943.
Some 200 of them were given to Nationalist China to use against the Japanese.

Sorry I just sort of fell in love with this stubby fighter when I saw it, and have been flying almost nothing but since.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:36 PM
First cantilever wing monoplane fighter with retractable landing gear.
Saw frontline service in WWII through 1943.
Some 200 of them were given to Nationalist China to use against the Japanese.

Sorry I just sort of fell in love with this stubby fighter when I saw it, and have been flying almost nothing but since.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:56 PM
Don't forget enclosed cockpit (which was later deleted due to pilot's requests).
First flight in the Fall of 1933.
In serial production since the Fall of 1934.

Just to compare - its closest contemporary Boeing P-26 Peashooter had externally-braced wings, an open cockpit, and non-retractable undercarriage. It was all metal thogh.


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 03:35 PM
N.N.Polikarpov was a true genius! This has been my favorite aircraft since I was about 11. Nearly 40 years ago!!

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:48 PM
Just got my book on Polikarpov s I16 Can't wait to get off work & read it. well I also got the Lavochkin book & am very curious what it has to say about Lagg3 performance. but will be reading both tonight.

maybe we should start a Support the Ishak Club or something ?

btw also love the I153 just wish it were fast enough to really mix it up.

http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:56 PM
Some other i16s were used during the Spanish Civil War from 1936 to 1939, first by the Republicans and then by the Nationals who managed to capture some to the enemy...Of course, they were furnished by the former Soviet Union...

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:14 PM
Is it true that some were made locally in Spaine?
I also know that some were retofitted with American high altitude engines in Spain.

AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:17 PM
When it first appeared, the I-16 was the absolute pinnacle of aircraft development. It wasn't long before it was left behind in the race though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.downloadcounter.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?username=James_Jones&account=705).

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/USsig.jpg
<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font></center>

Message Edited on 09/10/0305:30PM by Extreme_One

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:27 PM
Bogun wrote:
- Is it true that some were made locally in Spaine?
- I also know that some were retofitted with American
- high altitude engines in Spain.

I´m sorry, I don´t know the answer...Maybe some of them were built under license here in Spain...I´ll look forward this info...

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

Hawgdog
09-10-2003, 05:31 PM
I knew my rant about P.11 only servers would fire the troops up! I-16\153 servers only!!!!!!!!!!
Someone oughta host one tonight! Close range airstart!!

If I get enough PM's I'll do it. whathehellover

<center></script>1939 ONLY SERVERS!
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
Normally aspirated planes separate the flyers from the whiners!

<center></script>The original HawgDog, dont be fooled by fneb imitations
Vulching can be a contact sport
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:33 PM
Good info, chaps. I still like the cheeky little plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

It`s close to being a favourite plane of mine just for the character! A bit like the Spit which is my fave.





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:44 PM
Ok, I´ll translate some info I´ve found in some spanish webs (just highlights):

"The second i16 prototype was fitted with a M-25 Wright Cyclone engine"...I guess it´s an american engine, isn´t it?

"31 I16s arrived to Spain in october 1936 to help in the defence of Madrid. "

"At the ned of the war, 22 survivors from a total of 157, plus 30 more aircraft made under license during the Republican Government of before the war in Jerez were incorporated to the National Aviation."

So that answers some aspects of this little beauty life in Spain. BTW, it still flew until 1953!!!

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:11 PM
A production line was set up by the Republicans in Alicante to make 100 Type-10 I-16's. Only 14 were completed before the Nationalists overran Catalonia.

In August 1938 12 I-16's were fitted with Wright Cyclone R-1820-F-54 engines smuggled from the USA to become Super-Moscas. These were able to operate up to 8,000m so could bouce the Bf109's which up until then had been able to fly above their enemies at 6,000m.

All info from Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War by Gerald Howson.

'It is right to be taught, even by an enemy' OVID

Get my skins at-
http://www.il2skins.com/action=list&authoridfilter=one13&ts=1058588602&comefrom=credits


Message Edited on 09/10/0307:17PM by One13

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 09:43 PM
...............and in FB, I-16 is worlds' first jet fighter.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:17 PM
One13 wrote:
- A production line was set up by the Republicans in
- Alicante to make 100 Type-10 I-16's. Only 14 were
- completed before the Nationalists overran Catalonia.
-
- In August 1938 12 I-16's were fitted with Wright
- Cyclone R-1820-F-54 engines smuggled from the USA to
- become Super-Moscas. These were able to operate up
- to 8,000m so could bouce the Bf109's which up until
- then had been able to fly above their enemies at
- 6,000m.
-
- All info from Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War by
- Gerald Howson.


Cueceleches, One13 - thanks for the great info!

I wish for Oleg to create Spanish Civil War (and Nomongan and early war in China) flight sim. Those conflicts were never (is it correct?) covered by any flight simulators before. There must be a lot of people willing to try.
Been flying on I-152, I-16 server with no icons - it is definitely fun!


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:33 PM
I saw one of these fly at the big confederate air force demo last year. Only russian WWII planes I've seen flying. What struck me was the massive size of the engine compared to the fuselage. Hope it's there again this year.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:20 AM
kinda reminds me of the gee-bee with the engine size to plane size ratio.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 01:35 AM
Bogun wrote:
- Cueceleches, One13 - thanks for the great info!
-
- I wish for Oleg to create Spanish Civil War (and
- Nomongan and early war in China) flight sim. Those
- conflicts were never (is it correct?) covered by any
- flight simulators before. There must be a lot of
- people willing to try.
- Been flying on I-152, I-16 server with no icons - it
- is definitely fun!
- AKA_Bogun

----------------

Check out the Proyecto SCW site-
http://scw.webcindario.com/index.php?newlang=english

'It is right to be taught, even by an enemy' OVID

Get my skins at-
http://www.il2skins.com/action=list&authoridfilter=one13&ts=1058588602&comefrom=credits

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 04:26 AM
Here some more all coming from my giant illustrated encyclopedia of military aircraft.

Nation: USSR
Manufacturer: State Industries
Type: Fighter
Year: 1937
Engine: M-25B 9 cyclinder radial air cooled 775hp
Wingspan: 9 meters
Length: 6.07 meters
Height: 2.56 meters
Weight: 4,519lbs
Maximum speed: 288mph @ 9,850 feet/3,000 meters
Ceiling: 29,500 feet/9,000 meters
Range: 497 miles (800km)
Armament: 4 machine guns (obviously changed later)

First aircraft the I-16 ws ever saw action against was the Nakajima Ki-27b

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 06:59 AM
i think there are a couple of the recently restored New Zealand ones for sale

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:38 AM
Couple of great I-16 shots here:

http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/downloads/downloads.htm


I rotate these on my Mac's desktop regularly.



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:50 PM
Bogun wrote:
- Is it true that some were made locally in Spaine?
- I also know that some were retofitted with American
- high altitude engines in Spain.
-

Yes, they received Wright Cyclone engines and had their propeller hubs painted white. Thus, they were called "cold noses" and were more than a match for the Legion Kondor 109s.

And yes, there were fully operational factories in Spain, building new I-15s and I-16s, and reconstructing the ones that crashed or were shot down.

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:58 PM
Were they really a match to the Legion Kondor with their 109s? Maybe they were a threat for the Ju 87s, but less for those 109s...

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 01:25 PM
cueceleches wrote:
- Were they really a match to the Legion Kondor with
- their 109s? Maybe they were a threat for the Ju 87s,
- but less for those 109s...

Well, the re-engined I-16s were far better than fixed props 109 Bs and Ds that were the core of Legion Kondor by 1938. Things changed with the arrival of the first 109 Es which were no rivalled by those early types I-16s.

In fact I'm amazed that in FB is so difficult to shoot down an I-16 in a 109 E, even using appropiate BnZ tactics.

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 02:50 PM
DuxCorvan wrote:
- cueceleches wrote:
-- - In fact I'm amazed that in FB is so difficult to
- shoot down an I-16 in a 109 E, even using appropiate
- BnZ tactics.
-
-- Dux Corvan -
-
In real life I suspect most Legion Condor I-16 kills were surprise bounces. this doesn't happen as often as dogfights in Il2FB it seems. Thoug there are probably some game elements that make this more difficult too, as i have seen many people complain about this.

http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 03:44 PM
Yes, the i16 is a difficult plane to shoot down in FB, but I think it´s due to:

1- The i16 is, compared to other aircrafts in the theater, quite small, with an according small wingspan, which makes aiming more difficult.
2- It turns like hell!

I think that you must master deflection shooting in order to shoot down this little beast of a plane. I mean, german planes being B&Z planes, and the i16 being a T&B one, it seems obvious to me that if an i16 finds himself engaged from high above by a 109, it will start turning, just to make the jerry aim the most difficult. So , the jerry will have to dive on the i16 while turning, which will lead to a rather complicated deflective shot.

Am I right? What are your opinions? At least, it´s the way I usually engage the Polikarpov plane, and it works for me. But I had to practice a lot in QMB!

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:36 PM
By the middle of March 1942 the regiment (13thIAP) had been awarded the coveted Gvardeyskiy (Guards, used attributivly) title, becoming the 4th GvIAP; ...Between 12th March & 13th April it had destroyed 54 enemy aircraft for the loss of only two I-16s. One flight commander flying this type of aircraft, Captain Victor Golubev, a Hero of the Soviet Union, personnally accounted for 27 'kills' by the end of 1943, including two Focke-Wolfe Fw190s; his final score after transitioning to the Lavochkin La-5 was 39.


From Polikarpov's I-16 Fighter by Yefim Gordon & Keith Dextor (Red Star volume 3)



http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

MongooseBob
05-20-2004, 10:32 AM
Sorry to bump such an aged topic, but:

I'm doing a bit of research on I-16s and I have one question and an additional answer for another.

Question:
"Yes, they received Wright Cyclone engines and had their propeller hubs painted white. Thus, they were called "cold noses""

Dux - would you mind telling me what your source was for that? I'm doing a bit of fact-checking and it conflicts, so I'd like to find out which is correct (your makes a bit more sense than the other explanation I have)

Answers:
As a few others have said, there were I-16s fabricated in Spain - they were unlicensed copies by Hispano I believe. (and some consider it a good explaination for the extended presence of I-16s in Spain)

And about how hard I-16s are to shoot down relative to other aircraft of the period:
In addition to the reasons already stated (size and responsiveness) One of the great things about Polikarpov's design was its simplicity. The I-16 was designed to be easily constructed by relatively unskilled factory workers. (This simplicity also aided in the reconstruction of 6 I-16s recently) Anyway, what I'm getting at is that it has been noted by multiple people on different occasions how different the I-16 was from more "sophisticated" airplanes - not only was it simpler to produce and maintain, but its simple wood and steel construction was also very strong, resilient, and able to take hits well relative to more complicated aircraft of the period.

For those interested in seeing the I-16:
Three are still with the Alpine Fighter Collection in New Zealand, one is at the American Airpower Heritage Museum in Midland, TX, one is at the Fighter Factory in Suffolk, VA, and one is part of the Flying Heritage Collection in Arlington, WA owned by Paul Allen. The one at the AAHM (owned by the Commemorative Air Force)will travel to airshows, but I am not sure about the fighter factory's ishak... and I'm pretty sure Paul Allen's won't tour.

DIRTY-MAC
05-20-2004, 11:37 AM
I think this can interest some of you
dont forget to read pArt two of the text
NOMOHAN II
http://www.danford.net/nomonhan.htm
enjoy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pokryshkin_77
05-21-2004, 03:34 AM
Comprehensive info about I-16 modifications is presented on this site: http://www.brushfirewars.org/aircraft/polikarpov_i-16/polikarpov_i-16_1.htm

As well some intersting info about war experience of this plane in the Spain.

LEXX_Luthor
05-21-2004, 03:46 AM
Another good one (NOT Mongolia but China)

---&gt; http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/sino-japanese.htm


__________________
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:
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Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif