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View Full Version : He111 versus P47



XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:42 PM
Someone was suggesting that the P47 in FB rolls no
better than an He111. I did comparative tests between
the P47D10 (default) and the He111H2 (empty).

The figures are speed (km/h) - He111 roll (deg/sec), P47D10 roll (deg/sec)

300 - 36 - 90
400 - 32 - 110

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:42 PM
Someone was suggesting that the P47 in FB rolls no
better than an He111. I did comparative tests between
the P47D10 (default) and the He111H2 (empty).

The figures are speed (km/h) - He111 roll (deg/sec), P47D10 roll (deg/sec)

300 - 36 - 90
400 - 32 - 110

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:53 PM
The D-10 doesnt have bomb racks try your test with the D-27 and see what you come up with.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:23 PM
D10 rolls the fastest of them all here. That's too close. The others would certainly fall below that.

Depending on the linkage used, the D10 might be right, but the 27 is off across the board. Not sure about the 22.

Seems to me that the 111 is the one that's hideously off here (well, aside from the 27 that is. lol).

Any bets on a response (from Oleg)? I'm betting on none, and failing that a "you is wrong" response. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:56 PM
VMF-214_HaVoK wrote:
- The D-10 doesnt have bomb racks try your test with
- the D-27 and see what you come up with.

The D27 patently has bugs which is why I didn't
present that.

if you must (speed - D10 - D27 - He111)

300 - 90 - 80 - 36
400 - 110 - 60 - 32

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 10:27 PM
I know the 27 is still too slow thats why I ask.
47|FC

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 11:28 PM
*sigh*




http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:44 PM
"sigh" what?

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:58 PM
Is anyone here actually surprised the He-111 rolls much slower than a P47?

Did I miss the point?



Ham_Tyler - the amazing human lawndart!

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:01 PM
HamTyler wrote:
- Is anyone here actually surprised the He-111 rolls
- much slower than a P47?

In another thread someone said that the P47 rolled
so slowly it couldn't outroll an He-111. I did the
tests to have actual figures to dispute this, at
least in terms of the game implementations of the
planes.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:03 PM
Good man. Hope you gave them a smack upside the head for being so silly?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ham_Tyler - the amazing human lawndart!

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:21 PM
Why does an orange NOT look like an apple Dave? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<center>http://www.gamespy.com/legacy/top10/movievillains/hal9000.jpg </center>

Message Edited on 09/10/0304:24PM by Heuristic_ALgor

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:39 PM
is it just me or is that red eye gettin BIGGER????!!!!!!

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. Semper Invictus! <img src ="http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1063095905.jpg">

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:20 PM
I thought D27 was faster then D10 but had lower rollrate /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ?
Anyways flying a P47 takes a lot of patience, its only effective at BnZ, so you need 3000 meters alt to do a good dive, but climbing to that alt takes ages with a P47, kinda frustrating /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 07:41 PM
Think I might have mis-read at first. lol

Still, the D27 is very close to that in terms of roll.

Skyhawk - it is NOT good for BnZ. It can't "B" very well because the guns to shoot where you point them, and, it can't "Z" at all. The E bleed on it is *way* too high. It's only good for HnR and doing so only with help available. It's still too slow, rolls too slowly, and bleeds too much E. Still waiting on actually getting the P-47. Wonder if we ever will.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:12 PM
P-38 will be a good replacement if the P-47 remains in the current state.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:30 PM
If I remember correctly the P47 has the stronges engine in the game (above 2000 hp). Still this engine is insufficient for this plane. I'm getting the feeling that even the heavy IL2 could have better climb rate.

An d the roll rate ... well if it actually was that low I would feel sorry about those poor pilots who had to dogfight in these.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:42 PM
Here is my original post:

"The difficulty we have, is our inability to convey to the wise man, that which should be obvious to the simpleton"

Once upon a time there was a plane called the P-47. It dove like a brick.

It could absorb damage that would destroy other aircraft, and brought it's pilot home.

And while it's roll rate wasn't the best of the war, it was
by far one of it's deadlier attributes, in the hands of a skilled pilot.

In FB, all planes dive within 20kph of each other. Adavantage: P-47 NOT!

In FB, one 7,9mm rifle bullet routinely destroys the giant Pratt & Whitney R2800 series engine of the Thunderbolt.
Advantage: P-47 NOT!

In FB, the Heinkel 111 bomber has a superior rate of roll to the Thunderbolt, as do MOST axis aircraft.
Advantage: P-47 NOT!

So our question becomes: WHY DID THEY BOTHER ???

Somewhat let down,
Chris

I posted this to point to the fact that the P-47 was undermodelled pre-patch, and largely remains so post-patch.

From Aaron GTs roll figures, it is obvious he is using patch 1.11.

Aaron was thorough and accurate in his approach. However, the ONE thing we know that WAS addressed in the patch was rollrate (D10 and D22).

Aaron, are you able to compare the pre-patch P-47 to the He-111? I have switched to 1.11 now also, so I cannot. Maybe someone could do this for me to show that I'm not making this stuff up. In any case Aaron, I stand corrected on the POST patch P47 vs He-111.

As for HamTyler's (sp?) question "did I get my head slapped for being so silly", if he really likes hospital food that much, let HIM try.


http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 09:05 PM
chris455 wrote:
- Aaron, are you able to compare the pre-patch P-47 to
- the He-111?

Prepatch roll rate for D10 and D22 is same as D27 now.

Following is for several sims, in the form of time
to roll 360 degrees. The He111 at 36 degrees (300 kmh,
or 180mph) means
a full roll in 10 seconds, and at 32 degres, 11.25
seconds (at 400 kmh or 250mph).

I'll try an HTML table... for P47D10 or nearest equivalent.

<table>
<tr><td>speed(mph)</td><td>FB 1.0</td><td>Aces High</td><td>EAW 1.2a</td><td>B17-2</td><td>CFS2<td>Janes WW2</td><td>WB 2.77r3</td><td>WB3</td></tr>
<tr><td>250</td><td>4</td><td>4.5</td><td>4.0</td><td>4.5</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.0</td><td>5.0</td><td>5.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>300</td><td>5</td><td>4.5</td><td>4.5</td><td>4.0</td><td>5.0</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.0</td><td>5.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>350</td><td>8</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.0</td><td>3.5</td><td>5.5</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.5</td><td>5.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>400</td><td>10</td><td>4.5</td><td>7.5</td><td>3.0</td><td>6.0</td><td>5.5</td><td>6.5</td><td>6.0</td></tr>
</table>




Message Edited on 09/10/03 08:06PM by AaronGT

Message Edited on 09/10/0308:06PM by AaronGT

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 09:41 PM
Aaron, mind you, it is NEVER my contention that RL He-111 outrolled P-47- only FB modelling.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:03 PM
chris455 wrote:
- Aaron, mind you, it is NEVER my contention that RL
- He-111 outrolled P-47- only FB modelling.

It doesn't outroll it in FB either.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:26 PM
I beleive it did pre-patch.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:48 PM
Going by those #s it looks rather close for the D-27. Wish I knew how 2 of them could get changed and not the one with the best visibility..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif