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View Full Version : Enhanced terrain in Normandy map?



XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:23 PM
Hello,


I was wondering if the new Normandy map that's coming up contains new terrain. I can hardly imagine a IL2 type terrain in England and France. I was hoping for more farmlands, with trees along the sides, ditches, cattle, mills, farms etc. In short, a greater variety of visuals. I know that the engine is capable of it. I know that trees can be placed at certain spots through an algorithm, seen by the roads that have trees besides them in IL2. An additional couple of new textures to represent farmlands, along with the other stuff shouldn't be too hard to make, but could really enhance the view i.m.o. I'm really hoping for it.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:23 PM
Hello,


I was wondering if the new Normandy map that's coming up contains new terrain. I can hardly imagine a IL2 type terrain in England and France. I was hoping for more farmlands, with trees along the sides, ditches, cattle, mills, farms etc. In short, a greater variety of visuals. I know that the engine is capable of it. I know that trees can be placed at certain spots through an algorithm, seen by the roads that have trees besides them in IL2. An additional couple of new textures to represent farmlands, along with the other stuff shouldn't be too hard to make, but could really enhance the view i.m.o. I'm really hoping for it.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 04:47 AM
More land objects would be awesome, at least we are getting bunkers for the "western map." Having more variety on the ground would go a long way towards getting rid of that cold/mechanical feel that FB has. I would love to have 3rd party modellers do ground stuff, that would be awesome. There are many talented members in the FB community that could create some great environments/missions I'm sure.

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 04:57 AM
I wish 1C:Maddox would dump these little maps and just do Europe as one continous map. I'm getting tired of these tiny maps.

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:10 AM
You do understand that large maps requre huge amounts of RAM...see finish map?

Or would you rather have a map that has very little features, so the size is kept small?

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:53 AM
IJG54_Nowi wrote:
- You do understand that large maps requre huge
- amounts of RAM...see finish map?
-
- Or would you rather have a map that has very little
- features, so the size is kept small?
-
-

European Air War had a huge map including Britain, a lot of France, a lot of Germany which is about EVERYTHING western front. Better yet, it's entirely loaded everytime you fly. Mind you, it had rich terrain features. There were valleys, rivers, bridges and trees. Lots of buildings in big cities. And it was back in 1998 (?).

How about FS2000? It modelled THE EARTH! You could fly anywhere with enough fuel and time. The terrain had lots of features. Y2K.

Maybe a large map CAN be done in FB. Some other games did it before.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:22 AM
Hehe, just not quite true, I'm afraid.

European Air War Citys were far from the detailed, accurate representations we see in IL-2 and FB. They had some large generic 3d-buildings and lots of textures.

The forrest and farmland was quite generic as well.

FS2000 is using simple texture-tiles to simulare the world. Many small villages are just bits of city texture thrown on the surface, and the larger citys are pretty bland.

Okay, FS2002 does use automatic spread trees and houses, but that's still far from the actual representation of the real citys.

Look at the detail a river has in FB...and the same river in FS2002 (if you can find it).

Add to that that IL-2 keeps track of damage stats for every single house, bridge and other ground object that is part of the map. These are loaded with each mission. Try keeping track of 100, 200 million houses spread all over an european map.

So no....a quality map with the accurateness of say Leningrad in FB (including correct city layouts and historical signs as well as VFR Fixes) can not be done for whole europe without bringing even the mightiest computer do it's knees.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 01:03 PM
IJG54_Nowi wrote:
- Hehe, just not quite true, I'm afraid.
-
- European Air War Citys were far from the detailed,
- accurate representations we see in IL-2 and FB. They
- had some large generic 3d-buildings and lots of
- textures.
-

That's exactly the same thing with FB. In FB most of the houses you see are "general". That's including those large factories. Only a few landmark buildings are different.

- The forrest and farmland was quite generic as well.
-

So the FB forrest is not generic? They're four (three?) layers of flat textures repeated! And all the farms in FB are textures as well, used repeatedly.

Of course, in FB the land textures are far more detailed.

- FS2000 is using simple texture-tiles to simulare the
- world. Many small villages are just bits of city
- texture thrown on the surface, and the larger citys
- are pretty bland.
-

They used real sattelite photos for lots of places. Cities (not sure if all) have their own, unique textures. Not tiles. Small villages I don't know.

Larger cities definitely aren't bland with 3d models (simple ones, though) for taller buildings and landmarks. Yes, smaller houses, highways are all flat.

- Okay, FS2002 does use automatic spread trees and
- houses, but that's still far from the actual
- representation of the real citys.
-
- Look at the detail a river has in FB...and the same
- river in FS2002 (if you can find it).
-

Now look at it from 6k+ meters.

- Add to that that IL-2 keeps track of damage stats
- for every single house, bridge and other ground
- object that is part of the map. These are loaded
- with each mission. Try keeping track of 100, 200
- million houses spread all over an european map.
-

That's one thing not good to do, track the status of every single house. Tracking area damage is quite enough (try FMB). Of course more important buildings (factories, bridges, rail stations...) should be separately tracked, but not generic houses.

- So no....a quality map with the accurateness of say
- Leningrad in FB (including correct city layouts and
- historical signs as well as VFR Fixes) can not be
- done for whole europe without bringing even the
- mightiest computer do it's knees.
-

You mean for now or forever?

And what do you mean by VFR? Not visual flight rules?

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:28 PM
While most houses in FB are "generic" there are far more of them than there ever were in EAW.

While FB's Forrest of course is "generic" it's very detailed placed. In EAW, a forrst was a stretch of texture tiles.

I have never seen unique city textures in FS2000. Perhabs for the big cities, but if I fly over Austria, they are all the same, rather american-looking city block tiles.

It's true that Fs2000 does a good job from 6000k downwards, but the question is do we want a high alt sim or a low ground attack sim?

And yes, I meant Visual Flight Rules.

Take a look at CFS3, for example, which HAS a full map of europe. It certainly is not detailed enough to fly with the eyes on the road.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 03:06 PM
IJG54_Nowi wrote:
- It's true that Fs2000 does a good job from 6000k
- downwards, but the question is do we want a high alt
- sim or a low ground attack sim?

Ideally a sim that does both, and from WW1 to Korea and
beyond.