PDA

View Full Version : Holy poo the Jug is a silent destroyer!



ROXunreal
11-06-2009, 05:44 PM
I used to fly either an FW190 or a Ki-84 95% of the time since I started playing online 8 months ago, but lately I started experimenting more with other aircraft occasionally, and today I gave the P-47 a serious try for the first time online. I really expected to be shot down at first contact because I knew nothing about this plane's secrets, just that it climbs slow, maneuvers poorly and dives like a rock.

So I get some altitude, make a few passes on a J2M and snapshot it a few times with the guns, nothing too sustained. As I'm positioning myself for another pass I suddenly get Enemy Aircraft Destroyed......oooooook....., moving on.

P-63 closing in from far out, as this is one of the worst things I can encounter with the 190 at co alt I again start thinking about the worst. Somehow however I evade him a few times and manage to lure him into a head on. Fire, engine smoking, pilot probably wounded or dead as well. Ridiculously easy.

Got 2 more kills when I took off again after that, one was a spit that again I just did a half second burst on, pass him by and think he's lightly damaged. Boom, he crashes.

Though I was probably on a lucky streak, this thing DESTROYS. Planes for which I thought I only ruined their paint job and that they would turn and attack me would literally just fall out of the sky 30 seconds later, and I would be like ".......what?". Crazy. And of course getting away from anyone is all too easy if you have altitude, the thing is like a downhill train with no brakes when you push the nose down.

Anyway, very impressed, any thunderbolt specific tips are welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Romanator21
11-06-2009, 06:34 PM
But...the .50 cals suck! How is it possible?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I've recently done the same with the Hellcat. I was pleasantly surprised, and if I aim well enough the enemies do go down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
11-06-2009, 06:58 PM
Its all about the armament.... whereas most 20mm armed aircraft will produce some very spectacular results by destroying the aircraft externally. The .50cals are a little more unassuming doing damage to components while the external bits of the aircraft are somewhat less affected.

M_Gunz
11-06-2009, 07:07 PM
tha wounds tweren'tsa bad doc, twas tha lead pizzinin thet got me!

Eow_TK
11-06-2009, 08:10 PM
I found the Jug to be my favorite plane 100%. Its a good all around plane.

And wow Gunz, I cant say I've seen you type like that before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

PF_Coastie
11-06-2009, 10:07 PM
The Jug is my all time favorite ride. The .50s are great for crippling but not killing/destroying without a sustained burst of 2-3 seconds, and you just don't get that online. Yes you will damage planes all day, but you have to wait till they land to get the EAD unless you get a head shot or hit the sweet spot.

Go try to shoot down some A9's and let me know how you do!

Oh yeah, your hard deck is 5km and you should better be doing 900kph at that altitude, then its right back up to cruise at 8-9km. If you are on a decent server with halfway decent pilots, you will never live in an engagement below 5km.

BillSwagger
11-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Jugs, my one true love.

I have to say i've damn near mastered this plane, and its great at any altitude so long as you keep the speed up.
Its only short coming is its armament which actually can be quite deadly in the kill zone. I still think they could be a little stronger at longer ranges, but thats just me. Normally i peck away at an enemy until i'm able to get a decent burst, and then they try to limp home but never make it.

Instead of focusing on getting the kill, i just take it in stride and know that hitting with the 50s isn't always going to mean an instant kill. Difference being, hitting the cockpit or engine, where wing and tail shots are less effective.

I would say thats not only a feature of the Jug, but any plane that uses the 50cal as its only air to air weapon.
A lot of that is because the weapon in combat was used quite differently than it is in game. Yes you shoot at the plane the same, but i think 50s had better AP ability which made them more effective for killing the pilot. Full pilot vulnerability isn't modeled so consequently 50 cal gunfire isn't as effective at kills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6haX5x7KQ

I leave you with a visual: enjoy, starts at 1:40 100 rounds into a car.
Point being a plane might still maintain flight, but i just don't see a pilot wiggling out of the way of the bullets.
Its a much different weapon in the sense that HE/cannon rounds were made to punch larger holes in the skin, where AP rounds were made to puncture armor plates or engine blocks. HE rounds couldn't penetrate armor to the same degree, not even 20mm, but for the purpose of disrupting flight or weakening aircraft structure they did their job.


Bill

megalopsuche
11-06-2009, 10:31 PM
I would fly the P-47 more if the roll-rate weren't nerfed.

M_Gunz
11-06-2009, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Full pilot vulnerability isn't modeled so consequently 50 cal gunfire isn't as effective at kills.

It doesn't help any of the other weapons either. HE shrapnel and blast do not affect them either, a 2mm
bursting on the canopy frame not a hand-length from the pilot's head... no effect. Notice that the 20mm HE
doesn't even have to hit him to lose where the steel shower will do what AP will not, cover area.

The big losers are the 30 cals if you want to be fair about it. They come out last in destroying plane parts
though they do honor-work at fire setting, LOL!

You can PK in IL2. Sit behind and enemy bomber at 200m and you'll have proof!

PanzerAce
11-06-2009, 11:58 PM
I *love* the -47. If it's a map where I can reasonably expect to be able to get to alt, I don't pick anything else. I've found that it's actually a decent fast climber, so if you see someone soon enough, with a few exception, they have to make a real concerted effort to get you.

Also, the -47 is VERY deadly in pairs, since they can drag and bag anything else that gets to their alt, or take multiple passes on stuff to make sure it goes down. It also lets the pilots take a few more risks that they wouldn't otherwise (pull higher Gs and bleed energy to get a good shot in, etc), since there's another -47 on overwatch for them.

ROXunreal
11-07-2009, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
But...the .50 cals suck! How is it possible?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Well I never said that, actually quite the opposite, when people complained they're undermodeled I was the guy saying they're too strong because on the receiving end in a 190 just a few .50 shots would almost always magically either kill my pilot or destroy my controls.

Tuphlandng
11-07-2009, 05:33 PM
ROXunreal The original pilots felt the same the first time they saw the JUG. But after flying it they loved it.

Do you know why its called a JUG?
Or why its so big

Romanator21
11-07-2009, 10:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Romanator21:
But...the .50 cals suck! How is it possible?! Big Grin



Well I never said that, actually quite the opposite, when people complained they're undermodeled I was the guy saying they're too strong because on the receiving end in a 190 just a few .50 shots would almost always magically either kill my pilot or destroy my controls.

Sorry mate, it wasn't directed at you, just to the whiners who cry "nerfed", "porked", etc.

virgule88
11-08-2009, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by Tuphlandng:
(...)
Do you know why its called a JUG?
Or why its so big

Jug = container = milk bottle?

Feel free to rephrase that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BillSwagger
11-08-2009, 06:00 AM
Most of its size is for the turbo and ducting system to help get all of the power out of the PW-R2800.

This is also part of the reason the plane could absorb the damage that it did. Engineers feared the turbo system would be particularly vulnerable but it proved to be another barrier or obstruction to shield the pilot or other plane vitals.

VW-IceFire
11-08-2009, 06:50 AM
Isn't part of the turbo system in the Thunderbolt made with titanium? Or maybe it was something else fairly strong? All I remember is that the ducting and all of the equipment back there was necessarily strong simply for normal operations but it proved to be excellent at protecting the plane from damage.

BillSwagger
11-08-2009, 07:49 AM
Most of what the Thunderbolt framing and ribs were made of is Alclad 24-ST (aluminum alloy) which also some of the ducting contained, but much of it was stainless steel. Steel is very strong and also heavy, but perhaps better suited for a ducting material because of the fluctuations in temperature during different power settings and altitudes.

I don't think titanium or at least the alloys for aircraft were yet discovered and used until the 1950s.

A titanium alloy Thunderbolt would be something else, probably only weighing half of what its historical empty weight was.

general_kalle
11-08-2009, 08:43 AM
8 50 cal's pack a punch if you hit within convergence.

as for roll rate you can make any plane roll fast with a little trick.

instead of just using the ailruns you pull back a little bit and hit full rudder in the direction of the roll along with the ailrons.
almost any plane will snap roll 170-190 degrees depending on how long you hold it... dont hold it too long though or you might stall and spin.

takes a little practice but once you get it you can give some of the overly confident scissering Fw190's a nasty suprise.

also great for escaping. just as the enemy ligns up on your six for a shot you flip it inverted and do a sharp split-S and reverse direktion.

ROXunreal
11-08-2009, 12:03 PM
So can anyone lay down basic differences in Thunderbolt versions? What should I fly?

BillSwagger
11-08-2009, 12:20 PM
You can use Il2 compare to look at how they perform.

I will say that zoom climb performance is an important and advantageous characteristic of the plane. Later variants are much better at this, so always use the later variant when available.

ROXunreal
11-08-2009, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Oh yeah, your hard deck is 5km and you should better be doing 900kph at that altitude, then its right back up to cruise at 8-9km.

Well that all depends on the situation and server. Since I don't have TIR I play on open pit servers, where usually most action happens under 2000 meters, in which case I'm around 4-5km.

PF_Coastie
11-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by ROXunreal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Oh yeah, your hard deck is 5km and you should better be doing 900kph at that altitude, then its right back up to cruise at 8-9km.

Well that all depends on the situation and server. Since I don't have TIR I play on open pit servers, where usually most action happens under 2000 meters, in which case I'm around 4-5km. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that is why I added this sentence immediately after the one you quoted:


If you are on a decent server with halfway decent pilots, you will never live in an engagement below 5km.

BillSwagger
11-08-2009, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
why I added this sentence immediately after the one you quoted:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If you are on a decent server with halfway decent pilots, you will never live in an engagement below 5km.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Which servers might those be? I'm always looking to do some good flying up high like that.

JtD
11-08-2009, 11:19 PM
Funny, I've seen a lot of bad pilots flying up high but hardly ever seen a tank being taken out from more than 5 km up.

Good pilots do what the mission requires them to do and still live, they don't just cruise around at 8-9km.

BillSwagger
11-09-2009, 12:01 AM
Actually i tried playing on what was recommended as a quality server, on a map that required the P-47 to carry a load out.

Its sounds like a good idea, because that was the historical roll of the plane, however i know that flying low enough to bomb accurately in a P-47 is really asking for it.
Anyway, I gave it a shot, and took a 1000lb belly bomb and went on my way.

I flew to 4000-5000m and hovered over what i thought i was the target for several minutes but couldn't see anything. i got a bit lower, and only could make out the road that the tanks or military trucks were supposed to be traveling. I also saw a couple dots closing fast from my 12, so i decided to drop my egg and set a course for home.

Well, these dots got closer, and they turned out to be 109s. Long story short, i shot one down because they weren't very coordinated. One guy dove at me, while the other flew away like i wasn't there. Anyway, the guy that decided to engage must've lost his SA because in less than two turns i was on his tail, and he decided to climb to escape which is not very smart with someone closing on your six.

I haven't played much at all on this server, i will say i'm 4 and 0, and most of my engagements have been under 4000m like any other server. Not bragging about me, so much that i don't think there is much difference in what server you play on, there are newbs in every sand box.


I am sincere when i ask about a server where people regularly fly above 6000m. I think that would be some good times, and great experience, but other than organizing an offline mission it is something i rarely get to do facing human opponents.

Romanator21
11-09-2009, 12:46 AM
So this brings up an interesting situation:

If you want to kill fighters/not die, stay up above 5000 meters.

If you want to complete mission requirements, you have to get into the mud. There's no way to accurately bomb from 5000 meters.

It's a serious problem. It doesn't just apply to the P-47 either. I was trying out the Mosquito. It carries 4 250/500 pounders, and the flyable type has no bombardier, sooo, this requires a low level strike. I read that the top speed is somewhere in the 7500 meter range (and tested it too-I can outrun anything contemporary up here) But the target is a bunch of cars on a road? Low level is suicide because everyone else is above you. So, what is one to do?

I have one solution [shallow dive from 7500 meters], but I wonder what was used historically? It's also a shame most maps are so tiny. The mossie had a 1500 mile range (correct me if I'm wrong) Yet, online it would be up to 5000, and right back down without a chance to cruise and use it's top speed to full potential.

Edit: And it just occurred to me how one should egress such a situation: climb back up after attack, or take your chances and run at low level?

Avont29
11-11-2009, 07:55 AM
Holy poo the Jug is a silent destroyer!

Your just figuring this out? lol


the "golden gun" spitfire is no match for planes like the jug and corsair at high alt. NO match, the spitfire will crumble like paper

TheGrunch
11-12-2009, 11:28 AM
Actually, the HF Mk. IX is a pretty good match for the Corsair up high. Not absolutely terrible against the Jug either below about 8000m, as long as it's not a D-27. Just that no one ever uses the HF IX.