PDA

View Full Version : Fix for He111 need urgent next patch!!



HunglikePony
11-09-2005, 01:01 AM
Please go try to take off in 111, easy to lose control when in taxi and plane go round and round in circle on ground. Now, you can take off ok if you take time and be patience but not happen this with any other plane so why just 111?
Very bad when whole squadron of pilots with some noobs try to take off, see planes spinning around all over and crashing into hangars and trees and planes all over! not funny. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Can fix please this bug mr Oleg?

crazyivan1970
11-09-2005, 01:03 AM
You need to select all engines after you start them individually

GBOF
11-09-2005, 01:11 AM
This happened several times to me too, with all engines selected (of course Ivan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Taxing is not realistic in this Sim and definetelly need an "improvement" (just not workarounds). I hope BOB (or next required patch) will take care of it.

crazyivan1970
11-09-2005, 01:13 AM
Just checked it out... seems fine to me. Not sure how to help at this point.

triggerhappyfin
11-09-2005, 01:19 AM
Gentle on the throttle, lock tailwheel, brakes?

major_setback
11-09-2005, 03:18 AM
Are you trying to take off in a storm? This can cause the plane to behave like that.
Try a mission with good weather and compare it.

major_setback
11-09-2005, 03:41 AM
I just did a single mission in this plane. Yes, it is hard...took me about five attemts to get it off the ground (and landed safetly!).

I made sure tailwheel was unlocked, then full rudder - easing off as speed buids up, building up speed VERY gently (otherwise you go in circles - yes).
I had a heavy load... I imagine that it would be this difficult to do in real life (well, more so really. I don't think anyone would trust me with the real thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

whiteladder
11-09-2005, 03:52 AM
I think he is talking about ground looping, some of the twins can be very susceptible to this (Beau for example.)

It tends to happen in the game if you are in a hurry to take off, taxi too fast and then attempt to make a hard turn to get lined up on the runway, resulting in a uncontrollable turn.

How to prevent it, don`t taxi too fast, be gentle with the controls.

Take a look here

http://avstop.com/AC/FlightTraingHandbook/GroundLoop.html

Enforcer572005
11-09-2005, 05:51 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif
ditto....i was having a really hard time controlling the Beafighter while flying Dubbo's excellent castaways cmpn. Sometimes you gotta get off the ground in a hurry, and its really easy to wind up dashing about like a drunk.

gotta master the control of twins using seperate engine management and going to dual when needed. Takes a bit to get the hang of it.

Oh, and i love the callsign. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JtD
11-09-2005, 08:52 AM
If you think the He is hard to take off with try the Tu-2S. Same issue, but at much larger scale.

Waldo.Pepper
11-09-2005, 08:57 AM
There is nothing wrong with the HE-111.

I just wrote a mini campaign with it as a plane you fly in part of the campaign.

Ground looping is handy on runways when you start to run out of runway.

StellarRat
11-09-2005, 11:17 AM
There is nothing wrong with the HE-111. Make sure both throttles are linked (E Key). You need to stay at or below 20% power when taxiing and ride the brakes. Once you're on the runway line up carefully, lower flaps to take off, then begin your take off roll. Apply more power gradually as you pick speed until you reach 110%, then pull up once you're at or above 120 KPH.

msalama
11-09-2005, 01:34 PM
You need to stay at or below 20% power when taxiing and ride the brakes.

...and you should also learn to use differential power when taxiing. That skill is a _must_ with all multi-engined taildraggers!

It goes something like this for a left turn (the opposite side, of course, is used for a right turn): put your engines to idle and then select engine nr. 2 only (your right-hand engine, that is). Then apply full left rudder and open up your nr. 2's throttle _conservatively_ until you see the AC turning, at which point you want to leave the trottle there (or even reduce it somewhat). You can also help the process along by applying some differential braking as well (happens automatically with rudder deflection - just use your brakes as you'd do in any situation).

And oh yeah, one more thing - make sure your tailwheel lock is disengaged before you start your turn! Gets awfay hard with the bugger on, see http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hope this helps?

p1ngu666
11-09-2005, 01:42 PM
the tailwheel has naff all resistance, so it spins REALLY easy even at low speeds. its like its on ice, the entire time its on the ground..

msalama
11-09-2005, 02:05 PM
its like its on ice, the entire time its on the ground..

That so? I don't recall having any overt problems when taxiing the bugger, but that was a while back admittedly...

Have they changed it lately - like, y'know, specifically because everything's of course changed with the new FMs?

Dukayn_450
11-09-2005, 02:24 PM
in the new FM it is harder to taxi the 111, but it's not a problem you just need to learn to taxi properly. not being a full-throttle leadfoot helps.

Cippacometa
11-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Actually it happened once also to me.
Both engines selected, I gave full throttle to take off and the He.111H-6 started to turn around and around in circles.
Only way to stop it was to cut the gas. Then I lined qgqin on the strip and go with full throttle... all wnt OK, but this time with tailwheel locked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

surlybirch
11-10-2005, 02:51 PM
What really needs to be fixed is the altitude ceiling bug.

Try climbing above 3300m meters with ANY loadout in an H6.

SURLY

Vipez-
11-10-2005, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by surlybirch:
What really needs to be fixed is the altitude ceiling bug.

Try climbing above 3300m meters with ANY loadout in an H6.

SURLY

Did you remember to switch to supercharger #2, and mix 80 % ?

Hmm, only bug I have with H-2 and H-6 is that i'm missing the most important loadout, 8x SC-250 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

msalama
11-10-2005, 11:56 PM
What Mr. Würgerwhiner said there.

You've gotta use high blower and lean your mixture, and (sluggishly) upwards you'll get if that's your fancy...

But what _is_ the absolute ceiling for this bird when laden to the max, BTW?

Jetbuff
11-11-2005, 12:47 AM
This complaint is not completely unwarranted. If you are going any faster than 30kph and try to turn the He-111 does a very ridiculous looking pirouhette. (360â? or more) Now, I understand that a little overturning is natural due to the aft center of gravity but it's been taken to an extreme.

It is avoidable though: taxi at 20kph at all times and it will never happen.

269GA-Veltro
11-11-2005, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the tailwheel has naff all resistance, so it spins REALLY easy even at low speeds. its like its on ice, the entire time its on the ground..

Bump!

How you guys can say there are not problems with the He 111 taxi? He 111 taxi's spin problem must be fixed, it's absolutely ridiculous....you are really on the ice.

Try again....

269GA-Veltro
11-11-2005, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Dukayn_450:
in the new FM it is harder to taxi the 111, but it's not a problem you just need to learn to taxi properly. not being a full-throttle leadfoot helps.

Ok you can do it, but is not realistic....and quite ridiculous.

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 08:40 AM
its due to the new fm, the biggest problem is u cant get it back, even with full rudder, aliron,brakes and differential power. with fighters u can normaly powerslide yourself.

the il2 can also be very difficult to take off.

its just silly tbh, not only cos its very dubious physicaly, but the he111 was pretty solid design iirec, it was a passenger airliner..

to fly bombers is a constant battle against everything, including annoying bugs, whatever the bomber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

marc_hawkins
11-11-2005, 08:59 AM
the il2 can also be very difficult to take off.


I'm pleased you said that P1ngu, i thought it was just me! I mean i know i'm a noob and all, but i just can't get the dammed thing off the ground!

msalama
11-11-2005, 09:30 AM
the il2 can also be very difficult to take off.

P1ngu,

I'll buy whatever you tell me about the v.4.02 Heinkel, but as regards the Sturmo - well you either HAVE GOT to be kidding, or you just can't handle the bugger. A Sturmovik takeoff goes a bit like this (taxiing & pre-flight preparations are omitted for brevity & we're assuming a loadout of 4xROFS132):

* Elevator trim up some 5 degrees or so.
* TO flaps.
* Tailwheel locked.
* Radiator open (not necessary, but IRL it's usually like this).
* Mixture 100%.
* Prop pitch 100%.
* Apply power gradually.
* Apply left rudder gradually so that your ball stays in the middle/ish.
* The plane will stay centered on the RWY with correct rudder deflection.
* The plane will lift itself without elevator input if correctly trimmed.

...& gear up, flaps up, counter-trim if necessary etc...

...so on. And I'm telling you, man, that I've NEVER EVER had any trouble in taking off the bugger. It just has to be done correctly. And I'll make a track to prove this if someone's willing to host it, BTW.

So maybe it's the pilot again, as is often the case, not the plane?

PS. And yep, I know what I'm talking about here at least to a degree, which can be verified by checking my ground-pounding stats... (http://vp1.telija.net/il2sc/index.php?navigation=pilots/319/index.html)

marc_hawkins
11-11-2005, 09:46 AM
Just goes to show you how two people can experience diffrent things! Like i say, i'm a noob, but i can get everything else up, up and away so far, but for some reason the IL2 keeps dropping a wing on me into the dirt.

msalama
11-11-2005, 10:30 AM
Like i say, i'm a noob, but i can get everything else up, up and away so far, but for some reason the IL2 keeps dropping a wing on me into the dirt.

Hmm... Well I'm definitely no ace myselfhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I've flown in this sim for - what? - 8 months or so now, and have just gotten online some 2 weeks ago. But then again, most of the hours I've got so far _are_ in the Sturmovik so maybe that explains something...

The AC has a bit of torque, and AFAIvNotcd that's the main thing to remember when flying the bugger. But other than that, I honestly don't find it a hard plane to fly! So maybe you just need some practice with the monster, aye?

msalama
11-11-2005, 10:37 AM
...the IL2 keeps dropping a wing on me into the dirt.

Oh yeah! That's true. The plane has a tendency to drop a wing if your rudder deflection is not perfect, but that can be overcome with some counter rudder action - or even with ailerons if things go really bonkers...

PS. Just my $0.002, being the n00b that I am TOO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 11:12 AM
the biggest takeoff issue with the il2 is at the start, they have a tendancy to ver right, if u get going ok, then its fine.

but try to take off a il2 like a k4

start engine, enguage mw50, open rad, get to runway or some taxiway thats long enough, slam open throttle and use rudder to keep it inline (isnt too hard tbh)

the sturmo lacks rudder authority at low speeds, but has too much at flying speed..

yaks are somewhat alarming to takeoff, they drop a wing after u take off..

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 11:13 AM
btw, why only 4 rockets? u can take 4 rockets AND bombs u know, and u should http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 11:19 AM
the biggest takeoff issue with the il2 is at the start, they have a tendancy to ver right, if u get going ok, then its fine.

That's true.

But according to some historical techie documents I've read, some planes _do_ that before the torq kicks in with increased power. But honestly, I don't really understand your claim above of the plane being hard to TO, because I've never ever gotten that impression myself! But then again it's not your main ride, I take it? Whereas here - well, all I fly at the moment, on- or offline http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
btw, why only 4 rockets? u can take 4 rockets AND bombs u know, and u should http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Accch... well yes, but that seems to affect it's already laughable manouverability a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Well OK, could be I'm imagining things there, but still...

But it _does_ have to do with the way I do things (depending on the target of course). Because y'see, I usually take out all AAA's first with rockets, and then shoot everything else possible to s**t with my wing cannons. Not the best strategy, admittedly, but seems to work for me so far http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 11:29 AM
S**t. Gotta start an IL-2 thread NOW.

marc_hawkins
11-11-2005, 12:32 PM
Well, This game is called IL2 after all... maybe we should talk about it/fly it more!

Good tips BTW. Anyway! yes! heinkels. er, not qualified there... so I'll er... i'll crawl away...

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 12:56 PM
oh i fly all sorts all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the il2 is almost certainly the hardest in the intial takeoff phase.

its probably fairly correct, but its hardly there on nearly ever other plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

marc_hawkins
11-11-2005, 01:04 PM
I'd love to fly them all, but i really should restrict myself untill i've atleast cracked one!

I'll give the il2 some more goes, but it may be on the back burner mostly untill i can fly rings around people in my BF110. I may be some time.....

msalama
11-11-2005, 02:50 PM
I'll give the il2 some more goes, but it may be on the back burner mostly untill i can fly rings around people in my BF110.

Fair enough, and I'm not saying it's an easy plane to fly per se. But it does have many points going for it most ppl just overlook... meaning there's a thing there many folks do not necessarily understand / internalize at all! Well, all IMHO of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW, as regards Sturmoviks, there's a thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4161029573) going on about them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
11-11-2005, 03:30 PM
The guy having the trouble is certainly posting a legitimate request. There is something odd with the He-111s tailwheel...I think thats it.

A slight move of the rudder at 40% and you can go spinning for quite some time. That said...I learned to use differential power and very carefully judged movements and its not a problem for me anymore...

But its certainly a handful and sort of funny...and I think its a bit of a bug...or I can just guess that it is.

danjama
11-11-2005, 08:52 PM
which servers have il2's on? Cant seem to find any

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 09:50 PM
coops...

Xiolablu3
11-12-2005, 01:16 AM
I noticce this too, only the He111 goes into silly spins on the ground if u dont have the engines EXACTLY at the same power.

B25, Me110, A20, none of these do that.

Also the He111 is incredibly difficult to control on the ground in relation to spinnning and turning with tail wheel.

msalama
11-12-2005, 01:24 AM
which servers have il2's on? Cant seem to find any

Try Virtualpilots @ 62.236.255.205:21000.

Tully__
11-12-2005, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
which servers have il2's on? Cant seem to find any Eastern front coops or the server msalama suggested.

HunglikePony
11-14-2005, 08:52 PM
I fly the all the twin engine planes, especially 110 and 111, and they all taxi great, no problems, only 111 is like on ice and spins all time if you not taxi at walking pace http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
Of course crazy ivan i have both engine select, i'm not some noob dumby. I not need tail lock for any aircraft but 111 is going the too far with temperament. Not asking for dumb down of the controls, just more real because no way plane do this in real life, no way!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

msalama
11-15-2005, 04:43 AM
...because no way plane do this in real life, no way!!

I just tested the Heinkel with a loadout of 4xSC500. Seems pretty much OK to me.

First off, you've got to understand that you're dealing with a _heavy_ AC with a NON-STEERABLE tailwheel. Read that sentence again, because it's very important.

Now what does that mean? Firstly, you CANNOT use its rudder for steering if you don't have the airspeed. The prop slipstream hitting the rudder during normal taxi speeds isn't strong enough to turn the AC. And because we're talking about the HEAVIEST flyable in this game, you just plain and simple CANNOT compare it to, say, a Bf-110!

Secondly, you've got to be very careful with the throttle. A plane this massive has lots of kinetic inertia, and conversely lots of kinetic continuity. Now what this means is that it doesn't stop very easily when you eventually get it moving, and thus you stand an excellent chance of wrecking it if you don't know what you're doing.

Thirdly, as I stated earlier, the non-steerable tailwheel of the beast _absolutely_ dictates the way it is taxied, i.e. you have to use differential engine power and braking to succesfully steer it. Trust me, there is _no_ other way - but please be careful with your inputs nevertheless, because as I stated earlier the beast is massive and thus has a kinetical mind of its own!

Fourthly, you HAVE to use your tailwheel lock when you takeoff, and also make sure that you're well aligned with the runway. As stated, a beast this massive does NOT turn very easily even when you've reached your Vr, and much less below it!

Ok, that pretty much caps it I think. And yes, I can make a track of some rudimentary He-111 pilotage/ground steering for anyone's perusal if someone's willing to host it. And hey! Maybe you can make your own track as well so we can see what you're doing wrong?

Or are you just another Air-Quaker who just cannot be a**ed to learn even the basics of heavy AC handling, pray tell?

PS / EDIT: Did I leave something important out? Any well-versed Heinkel drivers around? Ivan?

msalama
11-15-2005, 04:58 AM
Also the He111 is incredibly difficult to control on the ground in relation to spinnning and turning with tail wheel.

No more than any other heavy twin taildragger without a steerable tailwheel, I'd say. Ask any Dak driver if you can't get into touch with a Heinkel pilot...

msalama
11-15-2005, 07:30 AM
OK, track made, i.e. some amateurish Heinkel handling for the general public to laugh at is at offer if someone's willing to host the flick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I adhered to those general guidelines I mentioned above in taxiing the bugger - and made a couple of mistakes, too, of course - and lo and behold: we taxied, we flew, we landed, we parked the beast (the beers, however, will have to wait until the weekend). And all this on my 4th flight or so with the monster! So... if I'm able to do it - without any experience of the type to speak of - then so are you!!!

Right?

PS. If you ever get to see this - i.e. if circumstances allow - then please pop a cold one & make some popcorn before you check out the landing. Talk about wobbly... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

msalama
11-15-2005, 08:04 AM
...and spins all time if you not taxi at walking pace

OK, one final note on this. I unfortunately can't find any information about the maximum taxi speed of the He-111, but as a comparison my QuebecAir's DC-3 pilot handbook gives a maximum taxi speed of 5mph for the bugger in the vicinity of obstructions. Yeah, a different plane, but _very_ similar to the Heinkel in that they are in the same weight category, plus both are twin-engine taildraggers with unsteerable tailwheels.

So dunno. Wasn't probably _meant_ to be taxied that fast, I'd say...