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View Full Version : Incredible whinning about VVS



XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:22 PM
Before writing this, I have read almost of your posts, pilots from Western Hemisphere.
You are, generally, unhappy because VVS planes are more nimble, than it should be, according to your "westerncentric" point of view. Your planes, ( be it German, British, or American), simply has to be better than Red Army aircraft. This idea you have gobbled together with your motherÔ┬┤s milk; but what about the other side?
The only reason that LW aces had so many aerial victories on Estern front, was the fact that Russian pilots were thrown into battle after completing 40-50 hours of training; compare it with LW 120-140 hours pilots, or, even better, American pilots with at least 200 hours? I am saying, at least, majority of American pilots had over 250 hours of training, after all, They were not in haste, there were no LW planes over America.
Having said all above, Il-2 and FB are the best a/c simulation games on the market, so stop whinning about patches - write to Microsoft, if you feel slighted. There you can fly Mustangs and blow everything out of the sky, if it is what you want.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:22 PM
Before writing this, I have read almost of your posts, pilots from Western Hemisphere.
You are, generally, unhappy because VVS planes are more nimble, than it should be, according to your "westerncentric" point of view. Your planes, ( be it German, British, or American), simply has to be better than Red Army aircraft. This idea you have gobbled together with your motherÔ┬┤s milk; but what about the other side?
The only reason that LW aces had so many aerial victories on Estern front, was the fact that Russian pilots were thrown into battle after completing 40-50 hours of training; compare it with LW 120-140 hours pilots, or, even better, American pilots with at least 200 hours? I am saying, at least, majority of American pilots had over 250 hours of training, after all, They were not in haste, there were no LW planes over America.
Having said all above, Il-2 and FB are the best a/c simulation games on the market, so stop whinning about patches - write to Microsoft, if you feel slighted. There you can fly Mustangs and blow everything out of the sky, if it is what you want.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:37 PM
Let`s face it djosha - not only Red Army pilots were crap early in 41`-42`, Red Army field commanders were crap as well. For various reasons - b/c of purges, poor training etc. Add outdated equipment (like TB-3/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . It surely changed later in war but took time.

So, if you want a "centraleuropeancentric" view that was one.

Funny how simply addition of 1 plane (P-51D) is starting to bring some quasi-nationalistic hysteria in this forum.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:39 PM
Boring

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:43 PM
Uh, which hemisphere is the west and which is the east? I mean you could look at it 2 ways. And what if you turned earth sideways eh? Think about it...

Hawgdog
07-18-2003, 04:50 PM
sounds like another case of western envy.

Did you acutally type "gobble with mothers milk"

man, thats right outta the little red book LOL

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:59 PM
"sounds like another case of western envy."

You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 05:06 PM
Do you know you were sentenced to death for pointed out design flaws in russian subs, planes, ships, tanks even tupolev was jailed and his wife died in prision, and all he did was state certain flaws that needed to be corrected to stalin same goes for anything mother russia made in wwii gsub machine guns revolvers. I dont believe any statistic from russia but I do believe japanese german us and british statistics. Russia was even worse then germanies propaganda stuka videos.

I for one love russian planes and the yak3 was the best they had but its a very weak a/c and had structural problems but one of the best turn and burn fighters at slower speeds, in top speeds its was no better then any other fighter all pilots experienced the same stick forces but Im sure you know this since you claim to know everything. Do some friggen research

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 05:09 PM
Djosha,
i think you have avalid point. 50 years of cold war meant that the only source of info on the war in the east was through German sources. And of course the Soviet Union certainly was not honest about it's short comings.

The Soviet fighters were excellant designs in many cases. Also unlike the real war there are many more "dogfights" in FB online. For dogfighting turn & burn aircraft are often the best. It certainly takes more training to learn to E fight in 3 dimensions.

Please don't confuse Luft-whiners as representing the majority opinion in the West. Many of these people have a limited understanding of the air war. They just want to become Erich Hartmann overnight.

Personally I trust Oleg's team who are working on this sim & doing a great deal of research full time, more than people who are studying these flight models as a hobby.

The other thing that makes Soviet aircraft better than many expect is the lack of production flaws & problems in the game. This is only natural, I don't want to put alot of time into a mission only to have my engine fail because the oil was allowed to get dirty or because of poor quality of manufacturing.

I' am disappointed whenever things degenerate into nationalistic arguements. It's very childish. These are fantastic airplanes, it is great to be able to fly them whithout having to kill other aviatiors who share the same love of flying but happen to be from another country.

So don't take the whining too seriously!



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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 05:32 PM
Djosha wrote:
- "sounds like another case of western envy."
-
- You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
- And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the
- receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.
-
-


You just destroyed any credibility you might have had by saying that.

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:07 PM
i cant believe you created this thread. is the beginning of the end for the Ubi boards?




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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:12 PM
Geesus, guys, this is a friggin GAME. Please keep the politics in check and leave it to the politicians. We are the REAL people from both sides of the world. Let's not fall into the political finger-pointing trap, we're better than this...I hope.

ZekeMan-USA

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:25 PM
To all,
Ok lets slow this down a little. Chill out, guys. We can either talk politics, or planes. Mixing the two is no good. There are plenty of websites out there for US bashers. This is a place for whining about the Mk 108, not US policy.
Russian planes were generally smaller, shorter range, and made for combat at low altitudes. American planes were larger, longer range, and made for combat at mid-high altitudes.
Lets keep this stuff to WWII, thanks.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:31 PM
-
- You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
- And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the
- receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.
-
-
obviously our pilots need more training since they missed ....I'll call my congressman and complain .



"We make war that we may live in peace."

Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:36 PM
Hey Rhett69,
Lets keep it nice and friendly, OK? Nobody wants to hurt anybody. This is a forum. Its for talking. You want to fight, get in your plane. I'm not taking sides here, just saying we all should keep it civil.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:44 PM
alright no more comments (unless provoked) but I'm not taking it back /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

"We make war that we may live in peace."

Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:46 PM
Gotta say that I think the Soviet's had some really talented designers. If they had had the quality control of other nations & an engine equal to the Merlin or Daimler-Benz their planes could have been outstanding. Just like Japan & the Zero the design was good but the industrial sector had difficulty producing reliable aircraft, self-sealing tanks etc.

Now in EAW the Tony (Hien)was the most popular Japanese a/c it seemed. But in real-life Japanese pilots hated it because of the unreliability of the engine (in part due to poor maintenance, in part production problems.)

the 1st post already points out the difference in pilot training between the airforces.

Radios were also important & Tactics.

With no production quality issues, with perfect coms & tactics learned over the last 50 years it's no wonder the VVS aircraft seem to outperform their historical counter-parts.

This is a good topic for discussion here if you all will just leave the politics at home & have a beer.
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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:14 PM
Djosha wrote:
- "sounds like another case of western envy."
-
- You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
- And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the
- receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.
-
I hate you too. Nyaaah.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:17 PM
What is it with these 10 post trolls? Another idiot, yawn.

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:23 PM
Djosha wrote:
- "sounds like another case of western envy."
-
- You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
- And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the
- receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.

This post is one in a million.

Thanks Djosha, you made my day....

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:23 PM
Naw,I think Yak3 is overmodelled because it`s better than P11.

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Hawgdog
07-18-2003, 10:13 PM
Djosha wrote:
- "sounds like another case of western envy."
-
- You said nothing, Hawgdog, about the facts.
- And no, I do not envy... At all. Having been on the
- receiving end of NATO bombs, I just simply hate you.



Well, my brother, I love you.
Come quite a way from dodging bombs to playing on the PC, Congrats!
Oh, just remember, if you go west far enough your standing in front of your arse!

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XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 12:50 AM
Djosha /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That was a laugh riot. Comedy pure comedy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

All these anti-amerinites just slay me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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Message Edited on 07/18/0304:51PM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 01:37 PM
Out of pure curiosity, how old are you guys ? When u gonna start sluggin eachothers over religion, daz a real killa /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tully__
07-22-2003, 01:40 PM
Whoa there boys, chill....

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