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View Full Version : to all PF TRACK IR users ?



aminx
12-02-2004, 11:05 PM
A couple of questions,

Are you perfectly satisfied with your pro unit?If not,why.
How far back can you swivel your head (angle)when passing a plane head on?
How much visual autonomy do you have in comparison to the hat?
External view function
thanks
aminx

aminx
12-02-2004, 11:05 PM
A couple of questions,

Are you perfectly satisfied with your pro unit?If not,why.
How far back can you swivel your head (angle)when passing a plane head on?
How much visual autonomy do you have in comparison to the hat?
External view function
thanks
aminx

VFA-195 Snacky
12-02-2004, 11:21 PM
Over time you learn to be more precise with your head movement. Once you get your setup just the way you like it from that point it gets better.
I am to the point where I even use my TIR in cockpit off servers because it feels like part of the sim now.

Like anything else the more you use it the better you get

PriK
12-02-2004, 11:21 PM
You have the same field of view you have with the mouse. Obviously you only need to turn your head about 45 degrees either way to see out the back of the cockpit since you can set up a profile that speeds it up the farther from dead centre you look.

With the new Vector clip coming out that uses 3 reflectors and the new software that uses better positioning algorithms, the effect is much smoother and more natural than with the current software. You don't have to sit quite as still and it's even more accurate than ever!

I think the TIR3pro is worth the extra money for the added precision you get but both are good units and will support the new Vector clip & software when it comes out in the coming weeks.

You are going to fall in love with this game again!

BPLIzard
12-02-2004, 11:38 PM
Howdy Charvel. What's the 'new Vector clip & software' about? I've seen the link you've posted once and have seen the video presentation. What exactly changed? Thanks, Bro.

F19_Orheim
12-03-2004, 02:17 AM
I have TracIR vs 1 and as it works so weel I haven't seen any reason to upgrade, but if this Vector thingy turns up well I just might reconsider http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
12-03-2004, 04:50 AM
More than happy with my trk ir 3pro http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif looking forward to seeing the new upgrade in action.

Wouldn't fly with out it.

Coffee999
12-03-2004, 05:37 AM
I was one that upgraded from Tir1 to Tir3pro. At first I couldn't tell much difference in the two. Because both worked so well. But after spending sometime with Tir3pro, I can notice a smothness difference not present with the first version. But more surprizing............was the hat.

When I upgraded I also ordered the NP hat with the reflector sewn in. It is sweet :-). It has a much bigger refector for better sensing, as well as the most comfortable hat I have ever worn right out of the box. The hat alone is certainly worth the money IMO.

Joe_Kurr
12-03-2004, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Howdy Charvel. What's the 'new Vector clip & software' about? I've seen the link you've posted once and have seen the video presentation. What exactly changed? Thanks, Bro.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The TrackIR Vector is a sort of addon to the TrackIR 3 (Pro).
It uses three dots to position your head in 3D space, and can see the difference between moving your head from side to side, up and down, front to back, and rotating your head to look up, down and to the sides.
They say that there will be a 98% chance that it will work in Pacific Fighters.

aminx
12-03-2004, 06:15 AM
I just talked to the agents in Germany and they explained to me that when ready we download it in the form of a free patch as an ongoing improvement for registered users.Also you have a dead zone adjustment option to avoid twitchy movements and allow our poor neck a little breathing space or else it really would be tiring and joking apart i'm sure it could lead to a form of arthritis without this option.
aminx

Vengeanze
12-03-2004, 06:39 AM
All say it's great but please be more precise.

Like if u have your TrackIR set so 45% headmovement means 160% ingame headmovement does it make things too jerky?
I mean, in the above example 1% real headmovement means apx. 3.5% ingame headmovement.

Also, if I understand this correct, by making the deadzone big one will loose precious degrees meaning u will have to turn even more to look back.


How about re-centering? If fiancée calls me and I turn my head and then look back at screen, what happens?

I've been following the TrackIR debate but kept from buying it cause I imagine I have to sit frozen or view messed up.

Lastly, how does TrackIR work with the zoom?

Tocca4
12-03-2004, 06:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vengeanze:
All say it's great but please be more precise.

Like if u have your TrackIR set so 45% headmovement means 160% ingame headmovement does it make things too jerky?
I mean, in the above example 1% real headmovement means apx. 3.5% ingame headmovement.

Also, if I understand this correct, by making the deadzone big one will loose precious degrees meaning u will have to turn even more to look back.


How about re-centering? If fiancée calls me and I turn my head and then look back at screen, what happens?

I've been following the TrackIR debate but kept from buying it cause I imagine I have to sit frozen or view messed up.

Lastly, how does TrackIR work with the zoom? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have mine setup so that if i turn my head so my nose points at the edge of the monitor, i'm looking back. I have it set with a little less sensitivity around the middle so i can move a little bit before anything happens. Works perfect.
It's not jerky at all, not the least!

If you get off your chair, walkt away (to the next room or whatever) you'll only need to sit down at the same position as before and it will work again.
You don't need to recenter it, that's only necessary on games without enhanced support (most flightsims of today have enhanced support: IL2 series, CFS3, FS2004, Falcon4, Lock-On, EECH, Mig Alley, Aces High, WW2 online, X-Plane, Battle of Brittain are thoose i know of.

Airmikey2
12-03-2004, 07:55 AM
Trackir is worth every penny in my book. There is about a two week learning curve but once you get there, you will never look back. (More like 45 degrees to the left and right...nyuk nyuk nyuk..) Seriously though - I would not be able to enjoy flight sims without it..best thing since the joystick.

Airmikey

Charlie_52ndVFW
12-03-2004, 11:19 AM
Lets see i I can make a big post an answer all questions....

BPLizard: What has changed is the Vector upgrade will give you 6 directions to move your view... so, not just the direction you are looking but the point of view itself. Meaning... you can lean, raise / lower, roll, ect.

TrackIR1 doesnt even have enhanced positioning. The difference is amazing.

Joe: I dont know where you get your information but there is currently no possible way for anyone to say it has a 98% chance of working in PF. Until you see an official list of supported games, I wouldnt say anything on the matter. Not being a sha-muck here... just being realistic and shooting down bad information.

Aminx: This will NOT be a free download. Well, let me re-phrase. You can use the new software in 2DOF mode for free. For 6DOF, you WILL have to buy a registration code. Sure, you can get the new software and get 2DOF... which will work the same as current software versions... but 6DOF WILL NOT BE FREE. The German distributor must be confused.

Vengeanze: It is not jerky at all. It is completely customizable so you can determine the ratio of head : game movement. The math they use smooths it unbeleivably well and it is smooth as can be. The deadzone can be as big as you want it, but you will not need a large one. With the vector upgrade, it is even better and small movements that are not view related (yes, the new software CAN tell the difference) are filtered out. So, users no longer need to sit still. As for centering... that is what enhanced view is for. You would have had a problem with TIR1, but TIR2 and TIR3 all have enhanced positioning. You look away and look back, your perfectly fine. TrackIR doesnt work with zoom right now... but that changes the day Vector is released. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Then you just lean forward or backward to use the zoom.

Airmikey: With this upgrade, the learning curve just got a whole lot faster. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hope this helped clear it all up.

aminx
12-03-2004, 12:10 PM
Clear,will discuss this on Monday with them just to be sure that they will supply the add on when available at what ever price,i presume we will have to check your sight from now on for dev updates.....hey any chance you can get us all flyable carrier born torp bombers as well??
aminx

BaldieJr
12-03-2004, 02:09 PM
I don't think this 6dof stuff is going to work with PF. Olegs already blocking the yaw axis. Just look at devicelink docs if you need further proof.

Also, oleg has said before the current engine can't handle more camera movement.

I like the idea, but I think natural point needs to slow down and make sure they have thier ducks in a row. A quick peek at thier forums show:
IL2: 628 posts
MS Flight Simulator: 42 posts
MS Combat Flight Simulator: 49 posts

Clearly the better bet is with the il2 series, but they decided to support the MS products first. Makes me wonder.

99th Obsidian
12-03-2004, 02:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
I just talked to the agents in Germany and they explained to me that when ready we download it in the form of a free patch as an ongoing improvement for registered users.Also you have a dead zone adjustment option to avoid twitchy movements and allow our poor neck a little breathing space or else it really would be tiring and joking apart i'm sure it could lead to a form of arthritis without this option.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude,

You are over analyzing a relatively simple device. If you have truly been following the TIR posts you'll see that 95% of the people who use it with FB-AEP-PF love it and won't fly without it. When the 6 degrees of freedom accessory clip becomes available buy a TIR 3 from Natural Point. Try it for a month, if you don't like it send it back. I'm so convinced that the True Vector extension is going to work that I'll sell you my TIR2 for $50 (1/2 what it cost from NP)

PriK
12-03-2004, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I don't think this 6dof stuff is going to work with PF. Olegs already blocking the yaw axis. Just look at devicelink docs if you need further proof.

Also, oleg has said before the current engine can't handle more camera movement.

I like the idea, but I think natural point needs to slow down and make sure they have thier ducks in a row. A quick peek at thier forums show:
IL2: 628 posts
MS Flight Simulator: 42 posts
MS Combat Flight Simulator: 49 posts

Clearly the better bet is with the il2 series, but they decided to support the MS products first. Makes me wonder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, as far as I know, the device intercepts movement and positioning from D3D after the game sends it to the video card for processing which is why it can potentially work with games that don't support a moveable POV. Please keep in mind that I'm speculating here and am not really technically qualified to be able to say how it works exactly, although I'm not completely ignorant on the subject.

There can be numerable difficulties in moving the POV so although it is possible that your contention that it won't work in PF may be right (I won't know until I actually see it personally) your reasons for saying why it won't work may not apply. I've been aware of Oleg's comments on this subject since he made them and understand why it's not intended to have a moveable POV, mostly for artistic concerns but if it does work the tradeoff should be small.

Since everything is still in the works it's hard to say anything for sure but we'll let you know any developments as we get them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blackTIE
12-03-2004, 04:42 PM
So that means no 6DOF for TrackIR1 users? 6DOF would be a great improvement I should think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie_52ndVFW:

TrackIR1 doesnt even have enhanced positioning. The difference is amazing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vengeanze
12-03-2004, 04:55 PM
Will the new Vector thingy affect frames (fps)?

AA_Double_Tap
12-03-2004, 07:25 PM
Aminx,
If you would like, I can email you a track of the TrackIR3Pro in action BnZing 4 Zeroes to oblivion. It shows the range of movements and the ease with which you can track the bandits.

Flying without a TrackIR would be unthinkable for me now. I would not even bother looking at a sim that does not support it. If you have problems you can get direct support from NaturalPoint. These guys bend over backwards to help. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

Email me at d_t(at)accessplus.com.au inserting @ for (at). If anyone else wants a copy just ask.

~E!~
tAA_Double_Tap

aminx
12-03-2004, 10:42 PM
ATT DOUBLE TAP

Thanks but i have seen all the videos lately including that long PF one.If that new improvement works only for MS products and judging by how players are moving towards this essential piece of equipment specially if you want to survive online oleg will have to do something,if anyone believes in and loves online its him.
aminx

PriK
12-03-2004, 11:53 PM
I think you will be surprised by the number of games, not just flight sims, that will be supported by Vector on release and by no means just MS products! I can tell you that NP is currently working with developers and third-party enablers to make Vector work with games that don't even have support built in.

They are taking a very pro-active role in contacting any and every developer they can think of to get support for a number of games. They plan to add new new games in future updates to their software as they come about as well. Also, they are working on many older sims.

There's a growing list of racing sims, some of which should be supported on release of the Vector upgrade.

Vengeance, I asked the developers about this and although the calculations for the new software are more complex than the older software we haven't noticed a significant increase in CPU usage. I haven't done any qualitative benchmarking comparisons but I can't detect the difference subjectively in-game and I'm pretty sensitive to framerate changes in my setup.

One of the great things about TIR over other software/webcam based solutions is a lot lower CPU usage with much higher fidelity.

FI.Snaphoo
12-04-2004, 01:51 AM
Although it appears the subject has moved on to the new TrackIR stuff, let me see if I can answer the questions you have raised:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
All say it's great but please be more precise.

Like if u have your TrackIR set so 45% headmovement means 160% ingame headmovement does it make things too jerky?
I mean, in the above example 1% real headmovement means apx. 3.5% ingame headmovement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have only just begun to delve into the TrackIR software. But I've experienced no jerkiness, nor any real difficulty in programming what I wanted it to do. I'm unsure of the ratios to which it is set, but it has been most helpful in immersing me into the game further. I know that to look from one side of the tail looking backwards around to the other side of the tail looking backwards again in the game is basically from one side of the monitor to the other.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Also, if I understand this correct, by making the deadzone big one will loose precious degrees meaning u will have to turn even more to look back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Afraid I don't have a real good answer for this. I've only just started out, my dead zone is fairly small (at a 2) and I only use it to keep my head on look so it's not so jumpy when looking at targets in front of me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How about re-centering? If fiancée calls me and I turn my head and then look back at screen, what happens? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If your body position changes your "center" view may skew slightly, but a simple press of the F12 key while looking where you want center to be fixes that with no problems that I'm aware of.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've been following the TrackIR debate but kept from buying it cause I imagine I have to sit frozen or view messed up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly. I'm a fairly animated "pilot" when in game, and while I have learned some "motion discipline" to not move as much, it's not any bigger deal than moving your head around while driving. You're not always looking at the road while driving. There are instances, brief though they may be, where this happens. Simply look where you want to look, or to the front to get a bearing and move on.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Lastly, how does TrackIR work with the zoom? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haven't used it much to be honest. I'll try it out and find out... Perhaps someone else could handle that one.

Charlie_52ndVFW
12-04-2004, 07:02 AM
More questions to answer. Looks like search feature isnt working... dangit... hate re-typing the same thing.

Vector upgrade will only work for the TrackIR3 and TrackIR3 Pro. The TrackIR2 and 1 hardware are unable to do it whether NaturalPoint wanted to make it work or not. If you remember, the TrackIR3 came out so quickly after the TIR2 because the imager used in the TrackIR2 went obsolete and they could no longer get them. So they deisgned the TrackIR3 on new hardware (not just the imager but new stuff all around). This is the only hardware that can handle the tracking specifics needed for the Vector upgrade.

I will tell you right now that it doesnt really matter what anyone wants when it comes to actual implimentation in the game. The only way to keep 6DOF from being implimented is to remove TrackIR support completely.

However, NaturalPoint is not going to release anything that is going to really screw up the view in the game. They have already said this to us (testers). As more games get added to the list, we test them to see how it works. We have not come across a single one that Vector screws up.

But just like Voice Buddy and other 'mod' programs, there is no way to block Vector from working unless you remove TrackIR support completely.... now you tell me if you think Oleg (or more likely his programmers) would do this.

Now I know I am sounding like the prik now. Oh well. But I will assure you that if it cannot be done right, NaturalPoint will not do it. Remember... they are working towards realism... not a quick sham of a plug in.

As I said in every other thread... time will tell.