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View Full Version : Roaring 30s aerobatic planes



PapaFly
07-08-2005, 09:09 AM
How about a contemporary aerobatic plane, one actually used during the 30s/40s? Many of us, specially those who are into aerobatics, would love to see some/one of these. We all could make use of them for training, learing how to maneuver, and learning to fly to the limits of the fm engine.

My suggestions:

Bücker Jungmeister: the dominator of aerobatics during the 30s
http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/gallery/gallery_images/jungmeister/jmeister_1lg.jpg

Bücker Jungmann
http://acro.aerobatics.ws/images/bucker_jungman_572x405.jpg

Grumman Gulfhawk II: one of the most exciting aerobatic aircraft of the 1930s and 1940s
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/images/grumman_gulfhawk.jpg

Pitts Special: need I say more? first flight in 1944
http://www.tamu.edu/easterwoodairport/images/gaimages/pitts.jpg
http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/gallery/gallery_images/Pitts/pitts_5lg.jpg


Boeing Stearman: fully aerobatic usaaf trainer, verrrry nice
http://www.flightgraphics.com/assets/images/Stearman.jpg
http://www.kokophoto.com/Pictures/California/Airshows/DLC-WAT-FLY-IN0116-5.jpg

S!

Tooz_69GIAP
07-08-2005, 11:02 AM
Some Russian aerobatics enthusiasts have been in contact with Oleg about this very topic. He has expressed interest, as Oleg is very keen on aerobatics himself, but he is sceptical about adding an aircraft as he feels there would be little interest. Plus it would take a long time to model the thing, then insert it into the game.

There is interest, but it's highly unlikely at this stage in the development.

PapaFly
07-08-2005, 02:58 PM
im sure we can find a skilled modeller to do the job. How about we start a poll to decide which plane, plus we try to find an interrested modeller?

As for the interrest, there are lots of people, there are aerobatic squads, there are guys making vids. I like blowing stuff up, but hey i love aerobatics!!!

BTW, as the engine is getting more complex, you need to be a good pilot to be successful. these planes are ideal for learning. even some of today's airforces are using high-performance prop-driven aerobatic planes (e.g. argentinian airforce - sukhoi 31).
S!

Tooz_69GIAP
07-08-2005, 04:30 PM
I agree with you, there are plenty of squads doing aerobatics, and loads of vids around (I have most of em).

I'd love to see a real aerobatics aircraft from the 30's. But modelling the aircraft will take some time, and then getting it inserted into the game takes a long time also.

Depending on who does the modelling, and how good the sources are for the cockpit, and the airframe, etc, and how fast you can gather that information, I'd say it would take around 6 months to 1 year to get it done, and then another 3 months at least to get it into the game. I don't think it will happen - time is simply against us now.

new-fherathras
07-08-2005, 04:31 PM
http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/projects/refactor-fp/workshop/medina/temporal-ss.gif

PapaFly
07-08-2005, 05:35 PM
WTF??
http://www.aerobat.co.za/images/Photos/Pitts_1.jpg

Lixma
07-08-2005, 08:07 PM
http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/projects/refactor-fp/workshop/medina/temporal-ss.gif

I've no idea what this means but it looks...important.

Re: Acro a/c, why not get some funky skins made for the Gladiator/Cr.42 etc ?

LEXX_Luthor
07-08-2005, 08:35 PM
Stearman would be useful.

FB/PF needs Flyable military basic trainers for each major nation. We don't need strict airshow planes. We can do all the acrobatics we want with Microsoft flight sims. We can even make our own planes for that.

Flyable Polikarpov U~2 may be in one of the Russian CDs.

F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 07:19 AM
Fun but Wont happen.

There are too many things to fix on this sim yet and many of them might not get fixed.
They also work hard on BoB at the same time wich should leave them little time at all for unrelated things.

It would seem very strange indeed to model an aerobatic plane when so much is left to complete and fix in the sim.

beautiful planes and pics though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PapaFly
07-09-2005, 08:06 AM
OK then how's that: they just take the Gladiator, Fiat CR42, I153 and Rata and make one version with no weapons, no ammo, no loadouts, no armor + change the engine so that they keep working under negative g's. It would be an easy fix, no modelling involved, just minor twitches to the fm. These are light, powerful, highly maneuverable planes, the only handicap is the engine cutout when inverted/neg. The removal of weapons makes them totally useless for dogfight servers so people only use them for aerobatics/racing/training/fun. Really, sometimes i just don't want to shoot and be shot, sometimes all i want is some good fun in a FRIENDLY environment.
Also, by adding them oleg can test if the interest/need for aerobatic planes is big enough to justify (maybe in bob *hint, hint*) the extra modelling.

S!

F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by PapaFly:
OK then how's that: they just take the Gladiator, Fiat CR42, I153 and Rata and make one version with no weapons, no ammo, no loadouts, no armor + change the engine so that they keep working under negative g's. It would be an easy fix, no modelling involved, just minor twitches to the fm. These are light, powerful, highly maneuverable planes, the only handicap is the engine cutout when inverted/neg. The removal of weapons makes them totally useless for dogfight servers so people only use them for aerobatics/racing/training/fun. Really, sometimes i just don't want to shoot and be shot, sometimes all i want is some good fun in a FRIENDLY environment.
Also, by adding them oleg can test if the interest/need for aerobatic planes is big enough to justify (maybe in bob *hint, hint*) the extra modelling.

S!

Sorry to spoil the fun Papafly, but they are undermanned and easy fixes aren't their style either. Perhaps they must be very picky with what they choose to fix?, although some of the choices made so far may seem peculiar.
There are numerous things wich seemingly are easy fixes but it just wont happen.

Only a few examples:
Restore the damagemodel on the P11 and other planes wich dont have one anymore.

incorporate the same bf110 but with a limited loadout without the 30mm cannon so it could be used for early maps and others online.this could be a way to get around that we cant lock the ordonance for planes online, wich would be very good sometimes.
This tecnique could be implemented on more planes.

There are excellent skins out there and the most common planes could get a few to choose between so one can have some variation online without enabling skindownload and that way avoid some stutters.
The madox team surely would get hundreds of good skins for free if they asked the community.

A small repaint on dessert airstrips so they can be detected on takeoff and landings, and the same of some tree textures, just darkening them would work better than nothing. (a few minutes in photoshop)

A few planes also have the option to raise the seat to see better. I dont know hard this is to fix but some planes desperately need that funktion. Fiat G50 and Cr42 to mention the worst.
These planes cant taxi because u cant see anything from cockpit. We cant implement leaning, but raisng the seat in these planes would allow them to taxi like other planes in the sim.

well a few examples. Dont get your hopes up, just wait and see http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
07-09-2005, 11:20 AM
about the raiing of seats, the aircraft which have that function in game had it in RL. I don't know whether the Cr.42 and G.50 had this function, but if they didn't there's almost no chnace of having it implememnted for these, or any other aircraft.

F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
about the raiing of seats, the aircraft which have that function in game had it in RL. I don't know whether the Cr.42 and G.50 had this function, but if they didn't there's almost no chnace of having it implememnted for these, or any other aircraft.

I know m8....The sides on the g50 cockpit are so high so one cant see any groundreferenses while taxiing and that ofcourse was no problems in RL since one could see past this by just leaning a bit, so if one could elevate the seat in this plane it would just make a better tradeoff than the thing we have now.
People just dont manage to take off with it online so they just accellerate crossfields, since they cant see the runway anyway, and hope for the best, if they choose it at all.

I too belive there is very little chance of getting anything, even the fix of a DM (it should have one= a clear bug) for the p11 wich had one of the best DM's in the sim in the early days.....
If a problem is posted on the boards enough times it might get seen.
if it's not adressed nothing will be done, thats fore sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

pdog1
07-09-2005, 12:34 PM
About the G50 look at this pic for proof, look at the pilots head, but its correct in FB, be sure.....

http://www.x-plane.org/home/pdog109/g50_mm3602_cmasa.jpg

F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by pdog1:
About the G50 look at this pic for proof, look at the pilots head, but its correct in FB, be sure.....



Yes exactly my point...the pilot just leaned a few centimeters to the side and easily could see the ground.

So since we cant lean in the game we could lift the pilot just for take off in the same manner as it's possible to lift in some carrierbased planes. That way we would get a reasonable view on takeoff, even if that also is a bit worser than in RL. But better than nothing.

JG7_Rall
07-09-2005, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by PapaFly:
OK then how's that: they just take the Gladiator, Fiat CR42, I153 and Rata and make one version with no weapons, no ammo, no loadouts, no armor + change the engine so that they keep working under negative g's. It would be an easy fix, no modelling involved, just minor twitches to the fm. These are light, powerful, highly maneuverable planes, the only handicap is the engine cutout when inverted/neg. The removal of weapons makes them totally useless for dogfight servers so people only use them for aerobatics/racing/training/fun. Really, sometimes i just don't want to shoot and be shot, sometimes all i want is some good fun in a FRIENDLY environment.
Also, by adding them oleg can test if the interest/need for aerobatic planes is big enough to justify (maybe in bob *hint, hint*) the extra modelling.

S!

I agree, absolutely gorgeous planes, but I'd rather Oleg focus on BoB now. After that, maybe these ideas as well as a WWI sim etc. can be considered.

Atomic_Marten
07-09-2005, 08:38 PM
Not only that these kind of birds are wanted (by part of the community, that is), but they can be of enormous usage in game. For example, for all newbies to learn how to fly easier way. + it would be historically accurate.

And for offline usage; all campaigns can be modified in a way to consist of few training missions before combat career starts, with these new birds. For me, that would be boost in immersion. Big time.

About some errors in game, many of them (especially those graphical ones) will never be fixed. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TX-EcoDragon
07-09-2005, 09:33 PM
I'm sure my oppinion is obvious. . .

PapaFly
07-12-2005, 03:44 AM
Maybe as an expansion to BoB?

LEXX_Luthor
07-12-2005, 04:13 AM
AtomicMarten::
Not only that these kind of birds are wanted (by part of the community, that is), but they can be of enormous usage in game. For example, for all newbies to learn how to fly easier way. + it would be historically accurate.
Only the military basic trainers. The dedicated "sport" acrobatic planes may not be Newbie friendly at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-12-2005, 07:58 AM
Agreed.. 'official' trainers of course.

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by pdog1:
About the G50 look at this pic for proof, look at the pilots head, but its correct in FB, be sure.....

http://www.x-plane.org/home/pdog109/g50_mm3602_cmasa.jpg

That plane looks silly that I knew but seeing this picture: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PapaFly
07-18-2005, 01:35 PM
Here's a solo aerobatic track of mine, about 9mins long. A program from takeoff to landing, in a Ki43 Oskar. Tailslide, torque-roll, snaproll, slow roll, 4-point-roll, barrel-roll (positive/negative), inverted flatspin, hammerhead, knife-edge, spiderman (my name for it), avalanche,humpty-bump, it's all in there folks, with views prepared for your viewing pleasure. Best is if you can listen the music i had for flying the program: starting with daft punk - aerodynamic, then daft punk - digital love and finally daft punk - harder better faster stronger, all from their discovey album. It all begun with some aerobatc training to get in touch with the 4.01 fm, soon i started having loads of fun in this little plane, guess im going to do some more of that stuff.
Grab the file while its hot, only available for 30 days

http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=3270782

Btw, i have a movie of it, including the music, 130mb. Any idea where i can host this?

Aaron_GT
07-18-2005, 03:15 PM
With the sudden popularity of extreme air racing and the success of films such as the Aviator maybe Oleg should create or licence a 1930s air racing pack.

filiperafaeli
07-18-2005, 11:14 PM
Hello,

My suggestion to oleg is a new product.

Super Decathlon
Zvko Edge Slim
Sukhoi 31,
Extra 300

I can help, with Tx-ecodragon to make, at least, a good flight model for the super decathlon.

Filipe Rafaeli