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View Full Version : P51D the king of the sim, an Ace maker, so whats up?



Sea_zero
12-29-2004, 11:34 AM
Hi

While on teamspeak and at the warclouds server western front, I heard a lot o complains against the modelling of the P51d.


While I agree the plane seems a bit sit at low altidue and cannot turn with the spitfire ixe.

Note I said it cannot turn with the spit, it can with the right settings of elevator trim. I noticed the plane tends to go into a shallow dive on netural trim and one has to move the trim setting considerably to compensate, this is the same with regards to the rudder trim, I would say about 8 to 10 clicks to the right, enough so that it keeps it couurs heading.

At low speads the p51d seems sluggish, but with the above settings it is lovely to fly, agile, and it can turn on a dime, though its not quite a spit. The speed and climb of the p51d is fantastic. I can easy to 300mph (indicated airspeed)where is the spit I can barely manage 240 max .

Lastly the k14 gyro sight should be renamed ace maker becuase with this baby, the p51d should be the king of the sim. It imporves gunnery by at least 50%.

With climb, speed, light controls and great gun sight, the P51d is king

Sea_zero
12-29-2004, 11:34 AM
Hi

While on teamspeak and at the warclouds server western front, I heard a lot o complains against the modelling of the P51d.


While I agree the plane seems a bit sit at low altidue and cannot turn with the spitfire ixe.

Note I said it cannot turn with the spit, it can with the right settings of elevator trim. I noticed the plane tends to go into a shallow dive on netural trim and one has to move the trim setting considerably to compensate, this is the same with regards to the rudder trim, I would say about 8 to 10 clicks to the right, enough so that it keeps it couurs heading.

At low speads the p51d seems sluggish, but with the above settings it is lovely to fly, agile, and it can turn on a dime, though its not quite a spit. The speed and climb of the p51d is fantastic. I can easy to 300mph (indicated airspeed)where is the spit I can barely manage 240 max .

Lastly the k14 gyro sight should be renamed ace maker becuase with this baby, the p51d should be the king of the sim. It imporves gunnery by at least 50%.

With climb, speed, light controls and great gun sight, the P51d is king

geetarman
12-29-2004, 11:46 AM
I agree. However, it is my understanding from some of the famous "charts," the Mustang will turn in a tighter circle than a later Spit at speeds above 255mph. Not that I care that much, it's just what I've seen.

JG52Uther
12-29-2004, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea_zero:
Hi

While on teamspeak and at the warclouds server western front, I heard a lot o complains against the modelling of the P51d.


While I agree the plane seems a bit sit at low altidue and cannot turn with the spitfire ixe.

Note I said it cannot turn with the spit, it can with the right settings of elevator trim. I noticed the plane tends to go into a shallow dive on netural trim and one has to move the trim setting considerably to compensate, this is the same with regards to the rudder trim, I would say about 8 to 10 clicks to the right, enough so that it keeps it couurs heading.

At low speads the p51d seems sluggish, but with the above settings it is lovely to fly, agile, and it can turn on a dime, though its not quite a spit. The speed and climb of the p51d is fantastic. I can easy to 300mph (indicated airspeed)where is the spit I can barely manage 240 max .

Lastly the k14 gyro sight should be renamed ace maker becuase with this baby, the p51d should be the king of the sim. It imporves gunnery by at least 50%.

With climb, speed, light controls and great gun sight, the P51d is king <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You're to late mate,Sir.Robin has already declared that the best plane is the 109 K4 so it must be true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Sea_zero
12-29-2004, 12:12 PM
well I put this post through my observations, because alot of people complained online, and with the gyro sight kills should make the p51d superior.

One has to fly it right and get to know it, most people feel they can get in a plane in this sim and then go off and rack up the kills, that is not so. The spit is a dream to fly but the dam deflection shots kill me, its great turner and buner . Your are right the later spits post 9s were more zoom and boom types, but they were superior to the p51d, I have seen the later war version of the spit and they look more like 51s.

Sea_zero
12-29-2004, 12:21 PM
Hi

more obervations,

In ww2, the main advantage of the p51d was the range, and at hieght it was great.


Range is cancelled out in this sim, now if you had missions that were all the way from england to berlin and back with 1 hour dogfighting time over the target, which plane would you chooose. the p51d.

That is whats missiong in the sim range, which shows its true effectiveness, and over a long period of time at the control the p51d was really forgiving to a tired pilot.

Even though it was not beyound the possibliites of the spit to get to berlin and back if the powrs that be had decided to develop it ( no point in discussiong this) they quite wisely though well hell we have a plane that is near comparable with the spit, ok its not has agile, or better armed, but it can take on the 109s and fw190s at there on game which is zoom and boom, no need for a really agile fighter there.

The p51d became the plane of choice not because the spit was inferior, fare frome it, because it was a pure economic decision, plus the usa was not bombed, the uk could make them, they were flat producing spits that had been set up before ww2, so the could not change to accomodate a new fighter variant, sure they built the typhoon and the tempest, but the numbers they had when compare to the spits and you will see my point. The germans and japanese did the same, they made do with what they had, and improved on it.

Only the americans really had the compacity to experiment.

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea_zero:
At low speads the p51d seems sluggish, but with the above settings it is lovely to fly, agile, and it can turn on a dime, though its not quite a spit. The speed and climb of the p51d is fantastic. I can easy to 300mph (indicated airspeed)where is the spit I can barely manage 240 max . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
& at higher alt its awesome at TnB

but for a plane that was so aerodynamic , it sure burns off speed fast with hard turning , i mean drag is the number one enemy to E retention in a prop plane

& as far as WW2 fighters go , the P-51 was probably the cleanest , least draggy design flying

distance doesnt add to the sim

our PF maps we have now , the biggest ones , quite frankly are big enough

nobody plays Combat Flight sims to fly stright along patrol paths just looking

we want action , & mega distances of over an hour to target , & a hour back just aint fun

realistic yes , absoluty , just no thanks when im gaming

Chuck_Older
12-29-2004, 02:31 PM
Elevator can be used too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The P-51D does many things well. It does not do all things well.

there is no 'best' plane in the sim, and there is no 'best' plane in real life

The P-51D is not a stellar climber. It is merely good

Any 'uber' plane is an 'uber' plane because the virtual pilot exploits all strengths, minimises weaknesses, and makes the fight on his terms

The gyro sight is good, but it is not an 'ace-maker'. Pure fallacy. And yes, I could teach class on how it works in the sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif proper convergance is much more important than the mere innovation of a gyro sight in this sim

P-51D=good plane. there are many others. Fly a plane that suits your style, and that plane becomes 'uber' if you fly it within a corridor of performance that denies your opponent a chance to exploit your weaknesses. It's chess, and that's that

Kootenai
12-29-2004, 02:48 PM
P51s don't make me an ace. I agree that this plane can be excellent in the right hands but those aren't my hands. I can do much better in any one of a number of other planes that better suit my own strengths, weaknesses and idiosyncracies.

P.S. Well put Chuck.

JZG-Pedro
12-29-2004, 03:03 PM
I haven't flown the P-51 in 3.03 yet, but from VWF days I'd say it's FM was fairly good. It only seemed to climb a little too much, or it was the 109 G6's climb that was too low, and maybe it's low speed handling could be slightly decreased too... It was one of the most feared aircraft by us german flyers, more than the Spit. IX for sure. For virtual wars, the Mustang is surely one of the best aircrat to be flown.

I disagree about this K-14 Gyro sight... I myself HATE it, my gunnery drops down to pathetic levels everytime I try it. It's all about getting used to things, and trainning, like the saying: " gunnery is 90% feeling and 10% aiming ".


happy new year !

VW-IceFire
12-29-2004, 03:19 PM
Its low speed handling has been decreased a bit recently Pedro so I think that question has been answered.

The 51D is an interesting thing. Some say its overmodeled, some say its undermodeled...so on and so forth. I think its one of the best fighters to be in...view is good, the guns are decent, the gyro gunsight can really help, it loves speed, and its very fast anyways.

tsisqua
12-29-2004, 03:22 PM
Good post, Mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tsisqua

Bearcat99
12-29-2004, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea_zero:
Hi
more obervations,
In ww2, the main advantage of the p51d was the range, and at hieght it was great.

Range is cancelled out in this sim, now if you had missions that were all the way from england to berlin and back with 1 hour dogfighting time over the target, which plane would you chooose. the p51d.

That is whats missiong in the sim range, which shows its true effectiveness, and over a long period of time at the control the p51d was really forgiving to a tired pilot.

Only the americans really had the compacity to experiment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you but isnt it funny...you mention range and in the PF forum you have guys complaining because the missions are too long.

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 03:44 PM
because an hour flying over nothing but flat , featurless water is . . . . . boring

this isnt FS 2004

pourshot
12-29-2004, 03:54 PM
I have to say I hate the gyro sight I cant use the thing and I have tried, And by the way the sight was called the ace maker when it came out and veteran pilots hated it also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so I suppose it's what you get used to.

73GIAP_Milan
12-29-2004, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
because an hour flying over nothing but flat , featurless water is . . . . . boring

this isnt FS 2004 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif what do you think it was in REAL LIFE back in the '40's ??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
what would you expect to see? dolphins in your wake or maybe Moby D!ck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 73GIAP_Milan:
what do you think it was in REAL LIFE back in the '40's ??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i dont get your point ?

& i dont think you get mine either

in RL , USN aviators went their entire tour without seeing a single bandit/enemy plane

should that also be a feature of FB-PF ?

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
distance doesnt add to the sim

our PF maps we have now , the biggest ones , quite frankly are big enough

nobody plays Combat Flight sims to fly stright along patrol paths just looking

we want action , & mega distances of over an hour to target , & a hour back just aint fun

realistic yes , absolutly , just no thanks when im gaming <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Atomic_Marten
12-29-2004, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea_zero:
Hi

While on teamspeak and at the warclouds server western front, I heard a lot o complains against the modelling of the P51d.


While I agree the plane seems a bit sit at low altidue and cannot turn with the spitfire ixe.

Note I said it cannot turn with the spit, it can with the right settings of elevator trim. I noticed the plane tends to go into a shallow dive on netural trim and one has to move the trim setting considerably to compensate, this is the same with regards to the rudder trim, I would say about 8 to 10 clicks to the right, enough so that it keeps it couurs heading.

At low speads the p51d seems sluggish, but with the above settings it is lovely to fly, agile, and it can turn on a dime, though its not quite a spit. The speed and climb of the p51d is fantastic. I can easy to 300mph (indicated airspeed)where is the spit I can barely manage 240 max .

Lastly the k14 gyro sight should be renamed ace maker becuase with this baby, the p51d should be the king of the sim. It imporves gunnery by at least 50%.

With climb, speed, light controls and great gun sight, the P51d is king <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You're to late mate,Sir.Robin has already declared that the best plane is the 109 K4 so it must be true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Mr.Robin said that "Oleg said that Bf109K4 is the new best thing.." or somethin' like that . I bet he still endures in his claims over P51.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 73GIAP_Milan:
what do you think it was in REAL LIFE back in the '40's ??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


i dont get your point ?

& i dont think you get mine either

in RL , USN aviators went their entire tour without seeing a single bandit/enemy plane

should that also be a feature of FB-PF ?

. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well now that you mentioned it, I would be most pleased if I see some of my missions without bandits chasing me.
But I suppose that puts me in 1% same-thinkers minority..

Sea_zero
12-29-2004, 07:28 PM
Hi

Well the thing about big maps this, nothing going on, not radio updates, not music or raidio broadcast to turn , nothing dynamic, not real world out there.


For example you decide to go one way, a japanese fishing boats spots u and then they send the zeros in. No radar dectection in the sim, nothing that remotely simulates look outs on land, no randam naval vessels, no returning flights, or seeing other flights going off in the direction, in shot pf is sterile. All the above happens in Rowans bob, though not the simulated look outs. Also falcon4 has this as well, even in B172 that has that to some extent, though done poorly, thats why the missions are long and boring, all dead.

Getting back to the p51d, overall the campaign, make the world more alive, oleg is doing this to some extent, but its still lacks, get news from the front, news papers, newsreals, reports, combat stories from the guys, you name it flesh it out, have bomber streams, have lone fighters doing recon, etc etc. If all this is done then you have a rational for the range of the p51d, it becomes important to hear the crews of the b17s etc talkin to eaach as you coming in range, samw with your squadron and other squardrons as you change frequency, also you could listen into the world of the enemy as well, voice and in morse code etc or some other example. Once we have complete world the p51d has a roll, what about hearing b17s being the p47s to stay after they reach their flight limit or the cries of attacks by the bomber crews, even let them fire on you if u get too close. You have a id reconigtion delay, just like in the gunners in pf. The p51d needs a virabrant world, it needs life for the extended range, other wise all its best qualities go unused and people complain is under model
led.

LeadSpitter_
12-29-2004, 07:35 PM
I have to disagree completely, i see all these luftwhiner post but i do not see any mention the high alt performance increase of the 190 or 109 rudder effectiveness.

What i did notice is the 109s cant out turn the spits or p40 anymore. The 190as can now turn with the mustangs and out runthem by 60kmph the a8 which should not be.

.50 takes many hit still with 200 convergence to take down a 190 but takes a few well place short convergence hits on a 109 as it should be the 109 was one of the weakest little a/c when it came to damage.

I think everything is great in the patch so far with the exception of the spitfires climbrate compaired to the 109s g2-g14.

As i seen in warclouds most the under 1000m tnb 109 jocks who are so use to being able to out turn anyone are now flying higher.

I have killed mustangs spits p47s p38s b25s a20s in 1 second burst with the 190 and 109g-6 14

you guys cry about the mustang which makes me laugh if you have not noticed its still only doing 540kmph max same with the p38 at SL which is wrong they should be faster then the 109g5 and 190a8 but are not.

the p51s roll was slowed down and its manueverability as well its above 5000m performance was increased slightly tho

I dont see any lufters thanking oleg for the increased accuracy and strenght of 108 cannons @ 20mm are now much stronger, the 190 is more agile then ever, they are now faster then they ever werte 5000-8000m and can now turn with the mustang.

thanks alot oleg all the changes are enjoyable and noticable for all planesets and they are very good along with the increased gunstrenght for all ac.

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Well now that you mentioned it, I would be most pleased if I see some of my missions without bandits chasing me.
But I suppose that puts me in 1% same-thinkers minority.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
how about playing PF only for a year & not seeing one single enemy plane huh ?

oooh wouldnt that be fun . . . & realistic , lets not forget the realistic immersion we would be enjoying . . . . .

NorrisMcWhirter
12-29-2004, 07:55 PM
Hi.

LW cannons stronger? I've not seen any evidence of that.

You're right about the 190A agility, though; tonight I had two P51s spin into the ground trying to outturn my A8. I couldn't stay with them in a sustained turn (who would want to?) but they sure were surprised enough to see me still in the mirror to cause them to yank the stick back too hard with obvious consequences.

So, thanks Oleg for making the 190 a little better at DFing (as it supposedly was IRL) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

PS: While Luftwhiners like to whine, by far and away the most posts around at the moment are from Ami-whiners emitting "burst Hoover dam levels of boo-hoo tears" about how their &lt;insert US plane&gt; doesn't do this or that or how their .50 cals don't cause planes to explode within a picosecond of opening fire at 800m.

PPS: I'd hate to have this sim requiring 5 hours of flying just to reach a target. There has to be a tradeoff between realism and enjoyment and I'd much rather have the demarcation point being shorter times to target/warp key rather than any compromises being made on aicraft/gun modelling either to improve gameplay or to pander to whinemeisters/marketing reasons.

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
the most posts around at the moment are from Ami-whiners _ emitting "burst Hoover dam levels of boo-hoo tears" about how their &lt;insert US plane&gt; doesn't do this or that or how their .50 cals don't cause planes to explode within a picosecond of opening fire at 800m. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i have new sig material

JR_Greenhorn
12-29-2004, 10:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea_zero:
Well the thing about big maps this, nothing going on, not radio updates, not music or raidio broadcast to turn , nothing dynamic, not real world out there.


For example you decide to go one way, a japanese fishing boats spots u and then they send the zeros in. No radar dectection in the sim, nothing that remotely simulates look outs on land, no randam naval vessels, no returning flights, or seeing other flights going off in the direction, in shot pf is sterile. All the above happens in Rowans bob, though not the simulated look outs. Also falcon4 has this as well, even in B172 that has that to some extent, though done poorly, thats why the missions are long and boring, all dead.

Getting back to the p51d, overall the campaign, make the world more alive, oleg is doing this to some extent, but its still lacks, get news from the front, news papers, newsreals, reports, combat stories from the guys, you name it flesh it out, have bomber streams, have lone fighters doing recon, etc etc. If all this is done then you have a rational for the range of the p51d, it becomes important to hear the crews of the b17s etc talkin to eaach as you coming in range, samw with your squadron and other squardrons as you change frequency, also you could listen into the world of the enemy as well, voice and in morse code etc or some other example. Once we have complete world the p51d has a roll, what about hearing b17s being the p47s to stay after they reach their flight limit or the cries of attacks by the bomber crews, even let them fire on you if u get too close. You have a id reconigtion delay, just like in the gunners in pf. The p51d needs a virabrant world, it needs life for the extended range, other wise all its best qualities go unused and people complain is under model
led. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some of those are great ideas and some of those aren't. However, the world does not revolve around the P-51D. It didn't in 1944, and it doesn't now.

Honestly, not everyone likes the P-51, and not everyone wants to fly escort or intercept missions. There is just so much more to expand in this sim without even getting into more immersive details.
What about working radar in nightfighters? Flyable gliders? More flyable glider tugs and paradrop capable transports? Recon planes that take screenshots like old cameras? Sea rescue mission capability, and flyable flying boats? Dare I mention flyable torpedo bombers?

The different flights you mentioned are possible now, but having something like that as an immersion effect does nothing if everything gets bogged down until it's unplayable.

The newsreels and such are a good idea, but they represent a huge amount of work to implement. Also, they would have to be translated into the different languages PF is sold in, then they would still get complaints for not being historically accurate and not being dynamic enough to match a non-historical campaign.

Similarly, all the audio files needed for the radio chatter you suggest would take up oodles of space, and we've already been told that not all of the planned planes even fit on the release. You can add custom sound files anyway, so you should really only be asking Mr. Maddox for more event triggers for the sound files, and random chatter capability. It would be better to ask for a broadcast radio channel(s) that we can use our own audio files for than to request that the Maddox team prepares it all for us.



The P-51D isn't the king of the sim anyway.
For me, the Me 262 is without equal.

WUAF_Badsight
12-29-2004, 11:03 PM
'For me, the Me 262 is without equal."

ok lets do a coop DF , me in a P-47 D27 , you in a Me262-1A

airstart @ 11,000 m

first to get shot down looses

first to drop under 8k Alt looses

you still think the Schwalb is best in FB ?

JR_Greenhorn
12-29-2004, 11:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok lets do a coop DF...blah blah blah... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
First, I don't play online because I can't. The computer I play PF on has a dialup connection that is unreliable and has never seen a 50k connection.


Second, I'm not any good, nor do I pretend to be on the forums. The qualifier "for me" was to signal that in my hands, this particular plane gives the best results with the little skill I do have and the flying style I prefer.

I usually prefer to fly more challenging planes anyway.
When I get tired of plinking away with .30s, I like to blast things out of the sky with those 30mms. The Me 262 allows me to disengage at will. I don't have the skill, experience, or simply the seat time required in other planes to coax every last bit of speed out of them. I don't enjoy flying those planes anyway.


Finally, how stupid do you think I am to accept a challenge on your rules of engagement to prove that one plane is inferior to another. What does staying abouve 8km prove about the overall performance of a plane anyway. Maybe I don't prefer flying at those altitudes--what's wrong with that?
It wouldn't matter what plane or altitude you chose, you would still beat me handily. What does that prove? Online fliers are more experineced pilots? Obviously.

FatBoyHK
12-30-2004, 12:17 AM
I think Oleg modelled the Mustang nicely. It is the physic model which need more works..... Planes just don't seem to lose much energy in tight turns. Of course this problem affect all planes but this certainly benefit TnB planes more than a high speed plane such as Mustang and FW. For example, Mustang merge with a 109 head on, Co-E Co-Alt, Mustang extend straight ahead. 109 can do a tight turn / half loop, and can still keep up with a Mustang... If the alt is right, it can even catch it...

Never tried a FW vs a Spit, but by what I heard, the same scenario applies.

_Neveraine_
12-30-2004, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
_'For me, the Me 262 is without equal."_

ok lets do a coop DF , me in a P-47 D27 , you in a Me262-1A

airstart @ 11,000 m

first to get shot down looses

first to drop _under_ 8k Alt looses

you still think the Schwalb is best in FB ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not an air start at 5000m-6000m instead of where the P-47's Performance peaks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Honestly thats like saying 'lets have a low speed turning match, I'll use the Rata you can have the 190'.

WUAF_Badsight
12-30-2004, 12:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
the Me 262 is without equal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
What does staying abouve 8km prove about the overall performance of a plane anyway. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _Neveraine_ :
Why not an air start at 5000m-6000m instead of where the P-47's Performance peaks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


the point of staying over 8Km is to burst bubbles about the 262 not having a equal

73GIAP_Milan
12-30-2004, 04:31 AM
Badsight, i got your point for sure the 1st time, i just had to mock it a bit...

LOTS of ppl here on the boards want this sim to be the most realistic one available, then i think they should NOT whine about having to fly a mission of 3 hrs seeing NO enemy etc. all stuff mentioned before. If you talk realism, then talk it but don't do it half...

Of course i'm a tad extreme here, but you get the point i hope...
And this is'nt FS2004 - NO Luckily not, because that is plain boring, but if MS chose to make the most realistic flightsim, why can't IcMaddox choose to make the most realistic Combat Flightsim ?
Factors like having to sit a mission for 3hrs and seeing no enemies should be counted in then

just my 2c to the matter.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
12-30-2004, 04:34 AM
RGRT

JG7_Rall
12-30-2004, 07:03 AM
A note about the gyro sight -- to me it's more trouble that it's worth. If you're a sh*tty shot then maybe its worth the time to plug in all the stuff that you need for it to work, but in a face paced dogfight, I never have the time to do all of that and just rely on the standard sight. Works fine for me!

FatBoyHK
12-30-2004, 08:41 AM
I enable both standard and gyro sight.... I use the standard sight to aim, and the gyro sight to tell me the direction I am turning to...

Daiichidoku
12-30-2004, 11:45 AM
P-51?...I'll stay with my JUG, regardless of the mission, thank you very much

Atomic_Marten
12-30-2004, 06:11 PM
I have seen a lot of rather unchecked exagerrations lately on forums. With every new patch, there comes new wave of whining. Sometimes justified, most of the times not.

I have seen numerous posts lately of "how MG151 are weak" or "how 0.50 are porked -&gt; weak and bad dispersed" etc. etc.

I just wonder what are you guys using for your 'etalon' to measure these things, and what's more important, to compare it?

At some point I was totally confused with all these changes in every new patch. In my opinion, since this is thread about P51 (and it's armament), P51D v3.03 seems fine a/c to me when compared to the other of that time, just that 0.50s are somewhat (a little) weaker than in previous patch(es). But that's just my impression.

And I'm not tryin' to be some smarta$$ here, since I do not have time to test all these new things that were changed (new FM's DM's and weaponry). Salute to you guys that are able to discover them all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

And Leadspitter have you noticed that some of the guys who fly Bf109 says, on the contrary to your Bf109 experience, that Bf109 "is no good in last patch"..

While I can't agree or disagree with them, I can tell that nothing big is changed in my experience.

Hey WUAF_Badsight why don't you try with this 'new' sig:

"how about playing PF only for a year & not seeing one single enemy plane huh ?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

This is what I mean when I say exaggeration..

Lucius_Esox
12-31-2004, 04:25 AM
Just a comment really about something WUAF_Badsight said about long flights being boring. Toally agree with you. Think this is where the "dynamic" campaign engine in this game falls down,, more suprises needed!

S.taibanzai
12-31-2004, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I have to disagree completely, i see all these luftwhiner post but i do not see any mention the high alt performance increase of the 190 or 109 rudder effectiveness.

What i did notice is the 109s cant out turn the spits or p40 anymore. The 190as can now turn with the mustangs and out runthem by 60kmph the a8 which should not be.

.50 takes many hit still with 200 convergence to take down a 190 but takes a few well place short convergence hits on a 109 as it should be the 109 was one of the weakest little a/c when it came to damage.

I think everything is great in the patch so far with the exception of the spitfires climbrate compaired to the 109s g2-g14.

As i seen in warclouds most the under 1000m tnb 109 jocks who are so use to being able to out turn anyone are now flying higher.

I have killed mustangs spits p47s p38s b25s a20s in 1 second burst with the 190 and 109g-6 14

you guys cry about the mustang which makes me laugh if you have not noticed its still only doing 540kmph max same with the p38 at SL which is wrong they should be faster then the 109g5 and 190a8 but are not.

the p51s roll was slowed down and its manueverability as well its above 5000m performance was increased slightly tho

I dont see any lufters thanking oleg for the increased accuracy and strenght of 108 cannons @ 20mm are now much stronger, the 190 is more agile then ever, they are now faster then they ever werte 5000-8000m and can now turn with the mustang.

thanks alot oleg all the changes are enjoyable and noticable for all planesets and they are very good along with the increased gunstrenght for all ac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



the Mk 108 was a bigg huge cannon remember, it takes only 2-3 hits to bring down big B17 bombers learn your history

wat do you want that a fighter could take 4-5 hits?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


second the FW 190 was a fast plane designed to be fast, rol fast, dive fast, level flight fast,


o i forgot thank you Mr Oleg to make it as real as posible

happy now Leady

and tel where are the Lufwhiners post in here ??

tel me where ??

where are Luftwhnires topics ??,

Atomic_Marten
12-31-2004, 12:15 PM
S.taibanzai actually once when I was playing online, in Kurfurst, I hit Spitfire IX more then 4 times (I think 5 Mk108 hits + numerous MG hits), and he was still airborne although he lost some ctrls. Also must be said that he receives almost all hits from dead 6, and that can be answer why he didn't disintegrated.(v3.02bm)

Trouble is, that online, appearantly ammo loses some of it's firepower (I hope that this my words aren't blah-blah, since a lot of guys were saying that they experience weaker power of armament online). Why, it is a mystery (packet loss maybe? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif)

JG5_UnKle
01-01-2005, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What i did notice is the 109s cant out turn the spits or p40 anymore <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They never did, sometimes I wonder if we are flying a different flightsim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Chuck_Older
01-01-2005, 09:29 AM
I see the "P-40 can't turn" myth is resurfacing. "Can't turn forever" maybe, but it sure can turn pretty good for an ugly three-legged dog whose chain got wrapped around a tree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif