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View Full Version : AC2 ENDING! "very mild spoilers"



schoolboytom
01-14-2010, 01:39 PM
Right, throughout the whole game i was extremely pleased, and impressed, with the story line. The characters were better, more in depth and the unraveling of a mystery get my interest right throughout. A few key moments towards the end, not to spoil it for players who haven't finished the game yet, added tension and built up the story with great effect. And the final battle, although easy, was good with gripping dialogue. HOWEVER, I would like to say as soon as you enter the "vault" the game turns from brilliant, to rubbish! I thought the whole cinematic was poor. The interest was gone and well, I thought how crap is this.
I cant really explain in more detail without revealing key details. But does anyone feel the same way? If not, why do you think it was good?

Lets get a discussion going.

hospitaller1
01-14-2010, 01:49 PM
If you put in a spoiler warning, then you're free to spill the beans dude.

So explain in more detail >.>

Matt_156
01-14-2010, 01:52 PM
as someone who also has problems with the direction that AC took in the very end, the vault sequence, i can assure you that you're not alone. be warned, however, that you're going to get flamed for this opinion. especially as it's worded so harshly.

i believe that the majority of the game is so good that the ending (which totally came out of left field and hit me like WTF) can be forgiven as a flaw in an otherwise amazing experience. i have a whole thread buried somewhere in these boards about how much i'd like it if AC stuck to the relevant time period and didn't dabble with the revisionist theology futuristic goofyness.

let's just be thankful that 98% of AC2 is pure awesome, and that the vault sequence can be forgotten and ignored easily enough.

p.s. - i think it's fine to reveal key details as long as you have a spoiler tag up. plus you're less likely to get flamed if your argument is more specific than just "this is rubbish/crap."

DLTyrus
01-14-2010, 02:01 PM
You're not going to get flamed for this opinion, you're just going to get people strongly disagreeing. In fact, not even that really since you only said you thought it was crap and you didn't like it ... well, I STRONGLY dissagree, but I can't call your opinion wrong, so unless you decide to expand on it then fair enough.

When you (by this you, I mean, Matt_156) say things like


(which totally came out of left field and hit me like WTF)

Which, if true, means you really didn't pay attention to the blatent sci-fi plot, and if you'd payed attention to some of the Subject 16 riddles (unless those are too silly for you too) you'd have had an inkling before the end scene.


And this:


can be forgiven as a flaw in an otherwise amazing experience.

Since it is the keystone of the entire experience.

And this


i'd like it if AC stuck to the relevant time period and didn't dabble with the revisionist theology futuristic goofyness.

Which is just a really, really, really irritating way of putting your opinion across.

And this:


and that the vault sequence can be forgotten and ignored easily enough.

Which is blatent bullcrap if you care about the storyline at all then you can't ignore the most important development so far.

In these cases, yes, you're going to get hassle, because you're just spouting crap. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Feel free to tell us why you're not happy with the ending though, schoolboytom, as other have said you can do so 'cause you have spoilers tags etc. I'm interested to hear why you disliked it.

Matt_156
01-14-2010, 02:31 PM
see? flame city. i am not "spouting crap." i'm expressing an opinion. you need to chill out and accept the fact that not everybody sees things the same way as you. i'm not freaking out because you're in love with what i consider to be a silly flaw in an otherwise great game.

i can play the game however i see fit, meaning that i can ignore whatever i want to ignore. considering that 90% of AC2 takes place in Renaissance Italy and the other 10% (if that) deals with the futuristic aspects that bore me, i find it quite easy to ignore.

Locopells
01-14-2010, 06:05 PM
Everybody down, incoming storm clouds!!!

Lazybeans
01-14-2010, 06:47 PM
To each their own, really.

And to be honest, the more glyphs I went through, the more sense of "wtf?" I had, and the ending was just icing on the cake. I do see where you can be really confused, but it makes the whole sci-fi story all the more interesting. If you only like gory but story-less games, then this may not be for you.

Matt_156
01-14-2010, 06:59 PM
my issue isn't with the presence of a story. i think that the story is perfectly adequate while it remains in the relevant time period. i just think it gets wacky when /spoiler <span class="ev_code_WHITE">Minerva rears her cybernetic head.</span> /spoiler

to each his own, though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Lazybeans
01-14-2010, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
my issue isn't with the presence of a story. i think that the story is perfectly adequate while it remains in the relevant time period. i just think it gets wacky when /spoiler <span class="ev_code_WHITE">Minerva rears her cybernetic head.</span> /spoiler

to each his own, though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Even that has to do with the story, like with the Truth video and all that. I dunno, it makes sense in my head. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

thebutcherhead
01-14-2010, 08:56 PM
IMO i wasn't exactly enthused by the ending and the new direction AC 2 revealed in the story line.

I liked the plot better in the first game, when the game focused more on ideas like political philosophy. I thought the conversations between Al Mualim and Altair were interesting, and if you really thought about their conversations, it made for an interesting compliment to the gameplay. The kind of idea that you're doing things in this game world, but you don't know if you're doing the right thing, even as you're carrying out these missions. That was something that was new to me in games as opposed to the usual trigger happy shooting you're use to in games that, while fun, gets kinda stale after a while.

Personally, I think they should have stayed with that, but now with the introduction of a new alien race, that kinda labels them as the antagonist and so the game is more about stopping them than it is questioning why you're stopping them, losing the unique element attributed to the first game, now it's all about stopping the bad guys again, which can be fun, but I'm bored of it.

Also, AC 2 was a revenge story, and that motif has been exhausted over and over in games. It was a good revenge story, done well, but I'm tired of that kind of thing. And in the end of the game, the conspiracy you were trying to reveal the entire game is revealed to be another mindless plot by the antagonist (Borgia) to rule the world again. I didn't really find that, or the addition of an earlier race with a message about global warming interesting at all.

Fortunately, the rest of the game was good enough to keep me enticed, so I wont say the game was a let-down.

SWJS
01-15-2010, 12:44 AM
but now with the introduction of a new alien race, that kinda labels them as the antagonist and so the game is more about stopping them than it is questioning why you're stopping them
TWCB aren't aliens, they're just highly advanced humanoids that came before us. They aren't the bad guys. As a matter of fact, they went out of their way to try and save us from armaggedon. And you're not fighting bad guys again. You're saving the ENTIRE WORLD.

I see it all this way. From the very beginning, the story has always been about Desmond, and the fact precursor objects shaped humanity. The end of the first game is no different than AC2's. It's ludicrous, you have a fight with a guy holding absolute power. At the end of AC2, you just end up fist-fighting the pope.

As with the revelation of Minerva, the signs were already there. First off you have the POEs, which should be a big enough clue. Then you have The Truth, which is a big "Hey look at me, I'm showing you the bigger picture."

The story has never been completely about Altair or Ezio. It's Desmond and his role in the world, which is, use his superior bloodline to save mankind from the Geomagnetic Reversal of the Earth, not "global warming".

Plus, the story was already a Sci-Fi. If it wasn't then what is the Animus?

The Animus is a huge game console that lets you play around with your ancestors. Yeah, that's completely realistic.

Honestly people, pay attention to the story. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

AC2 never strayed from the main plot with Minerva, it continues it, and explains why Desmond, The Animus, and the POEs are so important. It actually helps us understand what the POEs were for, who made them. And then again, what about Vidic's statement? "Gifts from those who came before." It was all there to begin with.

Nothing was ruined, nothing was overused. It's pure genius. Altair and Ezio's stories were just stories within the main story. It's about Desmond and all the nifty sci-fi plot twists.

Matt_156
01-15-2010, 10:58 AM
i agree with you butcherhead. i think the plot works best when it doesn't fly too far away from reality. the dichotomy between Altair and Al Mualim was realistic and engaging because they operate between good and evil, in a gray area where, like you said, you never know if you're doing the right thing. Ezio's story is more standard video-game fare. "You killed my family, prepare to die, etc." i think it works fine, just not as unique as Altair's saga.

to EzioTheAssassin - i see no evidence that people aren't paying attention to the story. it's just a matter of taste. you find the sci-fi plot twists brilliant, i don't care for them. doesn't mean we don't know what's going on. if you love the sci-fi stuff, more power to ya i say cause it means you'll enjoy the game even more. but for those of us who don't, there is mercifully little of it to endure.

over and out.

Lazybeans
01-15-2010, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
Nothing was ruined, nothing was overused. It's pure genius. Altair and Ezio's stories were just stories within the main story. It's about Desmond and all the nifty sci-fi plot twists.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

SWJS
01-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:

to EzioTheAssassin - i see no evidence that people aren't paying attention to the story. it's just a matter of taste. you find the sci-fi plot twists brilliant, i don't care for them. doesn't mean we don't know what's going on. if you love the sci-fi stuff, more power to ya i say cause it means you'll enjoy the game even more. but for those of us who don't, there is mercifully little of it to endure.

over and out. Actually, it is quite evident that no one is paying attention.

Everyone is making the statement that the introduction of Minerva ruined the feel of the game and went overboard with the Sci-Fi aspect.

My point? AC IS a science fiction series. The story is about Desmond and his role in the never-ending Assassin-Templar war. He's reliving his ancestors' memories to search for artifacts left behind by a highly advanced people, AKA the mayans, atlantis, etc. The story is about Desmond. Altair and Ezio's stories were stories within the main story, sub-plots within the plot, that ties everything in the modern world plot together. While their stories were cliche in some places, the true story of AC, Desmond's story, is original and interesting.

Minerva's appearence never ruined the story. This plot twist has been hinted at before, and Minerva's people mentioned before, by Vidic. It's always been there, it never came out of nowhere. Minerva helps continue the story, and explains a lot, including the role of the POEs and the vaults.

I think most people don't understand it and are quick to judge, but once you understand the plot as a whole, it is really ingenius. AC is also the first Sci-Fi video game plot to be able to factor in ancient history and do it well.

ShadowriverUB
01-17-2010, 03:33 PM
Pieces of Eden itself making AC an Sci-fi story, don't tell me you expected magic after globe map hologram in AC1?

Captain Tomatoz
01-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
i think the plot works best when it doesn't fly too far away from reality.


and the peices of eden don't fly it far from reality?

sorry but si-fi games usually arent that close to reality so i don't know why your complaining

Matt_156
01-18-2010, 10:12 AM
Ezio - just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they aren't paying attention. if somebody feels that Minerva "ruins the game" (i don't), that doesn't mean they aren't paying attention. you can make the argument that AC has been sci-fi all the long, but that doesn't mean that people who think the Minerva business is silly aren't paying attention.

Tony6593 - i'm not "complaining." i'm simply voicing an opinion. as for the pieces of Eden, artifacts from the garden of Eden are not necessarily 'unrealistic.' there was an actual garden of Eden, after all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SWJS
01-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Okay, I take your point.

However, how is the ending with minerva any different than the ending with Al Mualim using the apple to make copies of himself, etc. to fight Altair?

Al Mualim having seemingly magical powers is okay, but a hologram of one of "Those Who Came Before" is not?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, I don't see how Minerva ruined the plot when there were already so many unrealistic sci-fi aspects to the game, including the fact Jesus was supposedly assassinated so they could obtain the Shroud of Turin?

I myself thought the ending was amazing, but I simply don't see why it was Minerva that ruined it for so many people, when there were already so many things pushing the boundry, like the glyphs, puzzles, and the afformentioned AC1 ending?

ShadowriverUB
01-18-2010, 07:17 PM
as for the pieces of Eden, artifacts from the garden of Eden are not necessarily 'unrealistic.' there was an actual garden of Eden, after all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But in AC world "nothing is true", including garden of Eden that is part bible ^^' you got hints of that before ending of AC2 .

Wournos
01-19-2010, 03:33 AM
I for one felt the "WTF?!". But that was because I rarely finish games like this. I never got through AC1 because of the brick wall of opponants in late sequence 6. I personally expected more from the game in terms of play time. I don't like finishing a game under 40H (35H 46 min was my stat).

My disappointment from the ending was that, to me, it didn't offer any answers. Just more confusion.

But it's good to see that christianity was questioned. Thumbs up on that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Captain Tomatoz
01-19-2010, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Wournos:
My disappointment from the ending was that, to me, it didn't offer any answers. Just more confusion.

the idea was to leave people asking questions so they buy the next one to get the questions answered. Remember it is a trilogy after all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. It would be any fun after the game if everything was answered

eloki444
02-10-2010, 04:50 PM
I agree the game is very sci-fi, but some people bought this game thinking it would be a lot more historical than sci-fi and were let down by that.

godsmack_darius
02-10-2010, 05:06 PM
If it makes you guys feel better, this is based on really theory about the ones who came before, except they were called the Annunaki, who created humans in Africa i think it was, And guess where the truth video was? Thats right Africa, in Eden, right next to Mnt. kilomonjario

Azugo
02-10-2010, 06:31 PM
Good old Africa, eh?

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Godsmack is right. AC is not the first "story" to propose a superior race architecting modern humans. Not only the Annunaki, but Old Testament references to the Nephilim, Stichin's "Chariots of the Gods" series, its all over for many years.

I understand the points about being hit from left field on the hologram. But to be fair, the whole premise of the game/story is VERY science fiction already, very conspiracy-threory-laden already, and had set all this up in AC1. Given that, it's not truly that far off to introduce even more as the AC2 cliffhanger. But I do hear what you're saying.

Coolest thing about the game, like a good book or album, is going out and learning about stuff you were exposed to breifly by it. Heck, look at all the esoteric clues left in any TOOL song as a simple example of same.

godsmack_darius
02-12-2010, 07:06 PM
CEO is correct, the old testament was full of symbolism, it practically screamed the story of the Annunaki at you.


Heres more about the Annunaki

http://video.google.com/videop...intervention+theory# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1285345463618889531&ei=B2JqScX6KIvCrQKU_s2tDA&q=intervention+theory#)

Very interesting video, watch it all!!! It will blow you away, and it does have its sources

Hassan-Sabbah
02-12-2010, 10:20 PM
Stichin's "Chariots of the Gods" series, its all over for many years.


Not nit-picking, but Zecharia Sitchin wrote "the 12 planet and the Earth Chronicles" (which you can see the influence all over AC II) and Erich Von Daniken wrote "The Chariots of the Gods" series.

Again, not nit-picking, just putting that out there in case anyone wants to read them...

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Thanks, I do appreciate the correction. I was going off-top-head and was careless in mixing Von Daniken with Sitchin, and mispelling the name.

I'd like to add to the reading list some of the basis of both writers: anything by Ignatius Loyolya Donnelly. If you prefer more esoteric reading over that of a politician, go for anything by H.P.Blavatsky.

godsmack_darius
02-15-2010, 05:13 PM
@CEO_of_Abstergo

Could tell me with the Annunaki WHERE the Sumerians, or did they create the human race (sumerians being the first ones to be created)

If so, would that mean hominoids (big foot, yeti, apes,etc etc) are the real owners of this planet,

And did the annunaki create the great 3 pyramids if so, did the Egyptions create the "smaller" ones.

And was the Annunakis goal on earth to find gold which was mostly found in africa, and they created humans (sumerians at first)to mine it for them.

Please give me a explanation. thank you

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-16-2010, 08:18 AM
-----
Could tell me with the Annunaki WHERE the Sumerians, or did they create the human race (sumerians being the first ones to be created)
-----
The Anunnaki were the dieties (gods) who created mankind "for their service" according to ancient sumerian myth/religion. That mythos is evidenced in stone tablets disovered in 1800s and referred to as Enuma Elish, the Bible of Babylonian culture so to speak. The Sumerians were the ancient civilization before the Akkadians and then Babylonians. They are therefore "as far back as we go" in known societies and they are credited for inventing everything from agriculture to the wheel. The Sumerians refer to their gods, the Anunnaki, in a very similar way as the Semitic Hebrew texts like those you find in Bible Old Testament. Both creation stories say the gods created man in their image/with their blood, and includes long lists of names in their princely/godly bloodline - as if they were real beings not fantasy invisible gods like modern day. So, pretty much all ancient civilizations including the basis of western christianity (bible) point to some real supreme beings who CREATED humans with purpose.

---------------
If so, would that mean hominoids (big foot, yeti, apes,etc etc) are the real owners of this planet,
---------------
What they created humans FROM (apes, yeti, etc) is not explained in historical record, but modern Darwinian evolution has us conjecture it was apes or an earlier homo erectus because the known evolution gap can be explained by such divine intervention. But, yes, just as the native tribes of continents are indigenous to that land before being conquered/replaced, the earlier caveman-like humans would be the indigenous race changed/replaced by dieties into modern man.

----------
And did the annunaki create the great 3 pyramids if so, did the Egyptions create the "smaller" ones.
----------
Many have insisted that the archetecture of the great pyramids with their 'sacred geometry' and sheer complexity must have been made under guidance of something superior to humans. What I myself find interesting is that pyramids were the structure used all over the world by ancient religions/societies that apparently never knew about each other. That points to something in common, which could be dieties like Anunnaki directing their construction.

-----------
And was the Annunakis goal on earth to find gold which was mostly found in africa, and they created humans (sumerians at first)to mine it for them.
-----------
This is important: while all the info I provide above is from archeology (meaning orthodox historical academic record you can look up), the theory of a planet Niburu or that Anunnaki came from that planet is the theory of Zecharia Sitchin (in his 12th Planet series). The theory that the real purpose of creating a slave-race is for mining gold, a resource needed by dieties - also belongs to Sitchin. While both Sitchin and Von Daniken give good theories that early gods came from space, the ancient texts themselves do not spell that out. The texts only say that god/supreme beings existed and created mankind for their service.

Hope that answers your curiosities for now.

Tonoottu
02-16-2010, 12:59 PM
I agree so much with you... why... WHY DID HE ENTER THE VAULT IN THE FIRST PLACE and WHY WAS THERE A DIGITAL HOLOGRAM 3D THING ROMAN GODDESS??? WHO was warning of coming natural disasters (OH COME ON 2012 IS SO BS!)

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-16-2010, 04:50 PM
It SEEMS out of left field and very WTF when you see the hologram of Minverva and all that end-of-world junk... I get what you mean, especially after a very history-based game setting and a digestable plot about Templars fighting for global control with your Assassin order trying to stop them...

But here's the thing I want to point out that may help it seem more "connected" rather than out of nowhere and goofey --

Supposedly most/all these historical secret societies (Templars, Masons, etc) in reality have some special mind-blowing secret knowledge that keeps them in control. The game proposes that Pieces of Eden (and maybe where they came from, TWCB) is the secret knowledge Templars got from the Temple of Solomon in the Crusades (AC1). Altair writes in his codex "who where TWCB?" and wonders about them and their "toys" (PoE).

Then the answer comes about who they were - via some hologram in some vault under the vatican that interacts with a PoE... and shows a bunch of other vaults around the world. So all the secret junk, some of which has been found and remains searched for by these secret societies (Abstergo), is locked up in vaults from TWCB. And now the Assassins know about them, the PoE, and TWCB. Oh, and there is a sand-timer thrown in because we all might blow up in 2012.

Why? So there is a quest for you to make in AC3!