PDA

View Full Version : Made in the USA (P-39Q-10)



The_Stealth_Owl
05-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Hi guys!! S~

I was just wondering if the P-39Q-10 was built in the US, and not Soviet Russia.

If you know pls tell me. Thanks.

TheCrux
05-30-2010, 12:21 PM
All P-39's were built in Bell's plant in Buffalo NY. They also had a plant outside of Atlanta Ga, but I believe it was only used for P-63 production, and building B-29's under contract.

ElAurens
05-30-2010, 03:54 PM
Yup, supplied to Russia on the Lend Lease program.

M_Gunz
05-30-2010, 04:16 PM
And improved from the original design with cooperation by Soviet engineers to meet Russian needs.
But they didn't build them there.

BP_Tailspin
05-31-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
And improved from the original design with cooperation by Soviet engineers to meet Russian needs.
But they didn't build them there.

What did they improve from the original design?

Here's some cool pictures http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Factory02.jpg

http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Factory01.jpg

na85
05-31-2010, 09:36 PM
What did they improve from the original design?

I think the big change was that they removed the wing guns to make it lighter. I read that in one of the interviews here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/3431087335 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3431087335)

BP_Tailspin
05-31-2010, 10:07 PM
From the web (third par) -


The most successful use of the P-39 was in the hands of the Soviet Air Force (VVS). The tactical environment of the Eastern Front did not demand the extreme high-altitude operations that the RAF and United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) employed with their big bombers. The low-speed, low-altitude turning nature of most air combat on the Russian Front suited the P-39's strengths: sturdy construction, reliable radio gear, and adequate firepower. The usual nickname for the well-loved Airacobra in the VVS was Kobrushka, "little cobra", or Kobrastochka, a portmanteau of Kobra and Lastochka (swallow), "dear little cobra". Soviet pilot Nikolai G. Golodnikov, in an interview with Andrei Sukhrukov, recalled:

"I liked the Cobra, especially the Q-5 version. It was the lightest version of all Cobras and was the best fighter I ever flew. The cockpit was very comfortable, and visibility was outstanding. The instrument panel was very ergonomic, with the entire complement of instruments right up to an artificial horizon and radio compass. It even had a relief tube in the shape of a funnel. The armored glass was very strong, extremely thick. The armor on the back was also thick. The oxygen equipment was reliable, although the mask was quite small, only covering the nose and mouth. We wore that mask only at high altitude. The HF radio set was powerful, reliable and clear."

The first “Soviet” Cobras had a 20 mm Hispano-Suiza cannon and two heavy Browning machine guns, synchronized and mounted in the nose. Later, Cobras arrived with the M-4 37 mm cannon and four machine guns, two synchronized and two wing-mounted. "We immediately removed the wing machine guns, leaving one cannon and two machine guns," Golodnikov recalled later. That modification improved roll rate by reducing rotational inertia. Soviet airmen appreciated the M-4 cannon with its powerful rounds and the reliable action but complained about the low rate of fire (three rounds per second) and inadequate ammunition storage (only 30 rounds). The Soviets used the Airacobra primarily for air-to-air combat against a variety of German aircraft, including Messerschmitt Bf 109s, Focke-Wulf Fw 190s, Junkers Ju 87s, and Ju 88s.

During the battle of Kuban River, the Soviet air force relied on P-39s much more than Spitfires and P-40s. Aleksandr Pokryshkin, from 16.Gv.IAP, claimed 20 air victories in that campaign.[43] Aleksandr Ivanovich Pokryshkin, the third-highest scoring Allied ace (with a score of 53 air victories plus six shared)[44] flew the P-39 from late 1942 until the end of the war (though rumors exist that he changed in late 1944 to a P-63 Kingcobra); his unofficial score in the Airacobra stands at nearly 60 Luftwaffe aircraft.

Grigori Rechkalov, second Soviet top-scoring ace (56 individual air victories plus 5 shared) occasionally his wingman while both in 16.Gv.IAP, scored 44 victories flying Airacobras. The majority of his kills were achieved on P-39N-0 number 42-8747 and P-39Q-15 number 44-2547. During the Great Patriotic War he was awarded with the Order of Lenin, the Order of the Red Banner (four times), the Order of Alexandr Nievskii, the Order of Patriotic War 1st Class and the Order of the Red Star (twice). This is the highest score ever gained by any pilot with any U.S.-made aircraft.

The United States did not supply the M80 armor-piercing round for the autocannons of Soviet P-39s—instead, approximately 1,200,000 M54 high-explosive rounds were supplied, which the Soviets used for air-to-air combat and against soft ground targets. The VVS did not use the P-39 for tank-busting duties.

A total of 4,719 P-39s were sent to the Soviet Union, accounting for more than one-third of all U.S. and UK-supplied fighter aircraft in the VVS, and nearly half of all P-39 production.

AndyJWest
05-31-2010, 10:18 PM
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/P39-Oops.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzzsaw-
05-31-2010, 10:20 PM
Salute

There were no aerodynamic, fuselage, engine, or other design changes made to the basic structure of the P-39 as a result of Soviet suggestions.

The only production changes made as a result of Soviet requests were simply to remove equipment, ie. guns, fuel tanks or armour, in order to lighten the aircraft.

M_Gunz
05-31-2010, 10:35 PM
There were no aerodynamic, fuselage, engine, or other design changes made to the basic structure of the P-39 as a result of Soviet suggestions.

Perhaps the special word there is "design". We were presented with information about changes to structure made at the
request of and cooperation with the Soviets back in 2002 and 2003 when Oleg interacted here. No one contradicted him
then. I guess it's all down to sources. In any case, ya wanna argue then argue with him since he presented the info
and he has the sources.

WTE_Galway
05-31-2010, 10:37 PM
The soviets had a lot of input and influence with the King Cobra design. Maybe that is where the confusion comes from.

na85
05-31-2010, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
The soviets had a lot of input and influence with the King Cobra design. Maybe that is where the confusion comes from.

I suspect any worn out V-1710's were replaced with Klimovs as well.

M_Gunz
05-31-2010, 10:54 PM
They wanted something better than the D models.

I wish we could have gotten their machinegun and cannon designs in return for the Cobras.

CzechTexan
06-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

There were no aerodynamic, fuselage, engine, or other design changes made to the basic structure of the P-39 as a result of Soviet suggestions.

The only production changes made as a result of Soviet requests were simply to remove equipment, ie. guns, fuel tanks or armour, in order to lighten the aircraft.
Wasn't the tail structure strengthened on Soviet request?
Wasn't the small filet just forward of the tailfin added on request by Soviets for better stability?
I could be wrong since I don't have the reference book here with me.

horseback
06-01-2010, 12:06 PM
As I recall, the first Airacobras the Soviets received were from Britain in the form of Lend-Lease Airacobra Mk Is that 601 Squadron found inadequate for the Channel Front; they saw their first operations in Soviet hands in early or mid-1942, and only in limited numbers.

The VVS almost immediately liked it much better than the more numerous (at that time) P-40, which had had teething problems associated with it and the Allison engine that had been solved by the time the Airacobra started arriving in numbers. For the Russians, its size and ground handling qualities alone made it vastly preferable to the Warhawk, which the other Allied air forces preferred.

Airacobras became the major fighter model sent to the USSR via Lend-Lease by mid 1943, by which time most of the major design work on the Cobra had been completed. The tailfin fillet was definitely on the drawing board well before Pearl Harbor (and Soviet use of the Airacobra).

Given that Bell Aircraft doesn't seem to record a lot of Soviet input into the design, I suspect that the 'changes' that Soviet/Russian sources claim are mainly in the area of lightening it by removing extraneous equipment or wing guns.

Of course, it would not have been wise to admit to 'Soviet influence' once the Cold War started, so they may have just been covering their hindparts...but the timing still seems a bit too tight for any significant input from TsAGI.

cheers

horseback

R_Target
06-01-2010, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/P39-Oops.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Those fools. Westland would've got 'em sorted.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2mhsm52.jpg

BP_Tailspin
06-01-2010, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz: ya wanna argue then argue with him since he presented the info and he has the sources.

No one is arguing M_Gunz, we’re just chatting about the Airacorbra … feel free to join in.

------------------------------------------------

More info on the P-39-Q

The Bell P-39Q was the last version of the Airacobra, and was produced in greater numbers than any earlier version, with the 4,905 built representing just over half of the total production run of 9,529 aircraft. The P-39Q was in production from March 1943 until July 1944, by which time it had been replaced on the production lines by the P-63 Kingcobra.

P-39Q-1

The P-39Q-1 was produced with the same small 87 US gallon internal fuel tanks as the P-39N. However weight was increased by the addition of 231lb of armour plate. The Q-1 also saw the .30in machine guns in the wing removed and replaced by one .50ins gun per wing, located in an under-wing pylon and with 300 rounds of ammunition. These pylons were normally removed in the Soviet Union, where the nose mounted guns were felt to provide enough firepower. The P-39Q-1 was powered by the same Allison V-1710-85 (E19) engine used in the P-39N. In Soviet service the P-39Q-1 had a top speed of 376mph. A total of 150 Q-1s were built.

P-39Q-2

Five of the Q-1s were converted to act as photographic reconnaissance aircraft with the designation P-39Q-2

P-39Q-5

The 950 P-39Q-5s were similar to the Q-1, but carried more internal fuel cells at the cost of a reduction in the amount of armour.

P-39Q-6

The 148 Q-6s were P-39Q-5s converted to act as photographic reconnaissance aircraft.

P-39Q-10

The P-39Q-10 combined the heavier armour of the Q-1 (227lb) and the increased fuel capacity of the Q-5 (120 gallons). The Q-10 also saw the oil system modified to improve reliability in Russian winter conditions.

P-39Q-11

Eight P-39Q-10s were converted to act as photographic reconnaissance aircraft with the designation Q-11.

P-39Q-15

The Q-15 was the most numerous version of the P-39Q. 1,000 were produced. They were similar to the P-10 but with a modified oxygen system.

P-39Q-20

The Q-20 was also produced in large numbers – a total of 891 – and was similar to the Q-15 but with a number of minor changes.

P-39Q-21

The 109 P-39Q-21s were similar to the Q-20, but used a four-blade Aeroproducts propeller.

P-39Q-22

Twelve P-39Q-20s were converted into two-place fighter trainers with the designation P-39Q-22. As well as the two-place cockpit, the Q-22s had their guns removed and had a fin added above and below the fuselage.

P-39Q-25

700 P-39Q-25s were produced. Like the Q-21 they used the four-blade Aeroproducts propeller, but came with a reinforced aft-fuselage and horizontal stabilizer. As on many version of the P series aircraft intended for the Soviet Union were produced without the wing guns.

P-39Q-30

Production of the Airacobra ended with the 400 P-39Q-30s. These aircraft were similar to the Q-25 but came with a three bladed propeller.

BP_Tailspin
06-01-2010, 07:35 PM
Here's a great Lend-Lease web-site.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/index.htm

----------------------

Opp’s … while I was arguing with M_Gunz I almost forgot to post some more cool pictures http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Cobra04.jpg


http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Cobra01.jpg


http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Cobra02.jpg


http://www.cubpilot.com/Tspin/Cobra03.jpg