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PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 06:10 PM
Oogle at something you guys can't have.

http://www.garagebay9.com/images/render1.jpg
http://www.garagebay9.com/images/render2.jpg
http://www.garagebay9.com/images/render3.jpg
http://www.garagebay9.com/images/render4.jpg

I actually am still hoping to skin this, because I'd like to use the model in my demo reel. If there's somebody willing to skin it, I can send you the files.

Dtools4fools
05-12-2005, 06:39 PM
Hmmm, looks like a pregnant P-38 to me...


*dives for cover*

heywooood
05-12-2005, 06:43 PM
P-61 Black Widow...

Whos' the modeller and what is this one for?


...and why oh why would you torment us this way ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 07:00 PM
Modeler is me, dingus.

It WAS for PF, before N/G had PMS.

(Pay Me Syndrome)

GoToAway
05-12-2005, 07:02 PM
That is cruel. The one plane I'd like more than anything in this sim, and I can never have it.

That is a beautiful model. Maybe Oleg will see it and will become inspired.



Originally posted by heywooood:
Whos' the modeller and what is this one for? PlaneEater is.
And it was for PF before Oleg called a stop to American plane development a while back.

GoToAway
05-12-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
Hmmm, looks like a pregnant P-38 to me... It's a P-61, which was US' first dedicated nightfighter (P-38Ms and reworked A-20s don't cut it, I'm afraid.)

It had two R2800s and could outpace an F4U-1D by a few MPH in optimal conditions. It also had one of the tightest turning radius of any Allied fighter due in part to ridiculously powerful elevators, and this is in spite of its large size and 3 man crew.

It was armed with 4 20mms in the nose and 4 M2s in a rotating dorsal turret (which was in truth often absent on early models sent to the ETO and fixed on late models because it was prone to problems at high speed.)


It is without a doubt one of my favorite aircraft of all time. While made by Northrop, it's definitely the P-38's big brother in my mind.

VBF-83_Hawk
05-12-2005, 07:11 PM
That is NOT a P-61 Black Widow. We have a copy right issue here. This is its REAL NAME:

P-61 Black Spider with Red Dot on Tummy!

Now get that thing in the next patch!!!!!

GoToAway
05-12-2005, 07:13 PM
****. I can't stop looking at those renders.

It's such a shame that we'll never see it, especially after you did so much work on it.


Was it going to be AI only, or were there plans to make it flyable?

Atomic_Marten
05-12-2005, 07:17 PM
I wont cry over that aircraft, although it would be nice to have it.

I would shed a tear for B6/B5N, and Devastator/Helldiver/Avenger(one of these 3, no matter which one) cockpit.

Not that I am toatlly in love with these planes, just my point is, a decent Pacific COOP/DF mission with objectives.

BTW excellent model of P61 you have there m8. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/sb2c-air2.jpg

heywooood
05-12-2005, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Modeler is me, dingus.

It WAS for PF, before N/G had PMS.

(Pay Me Syndrome)


So many wasted hours...shame.
..And thanks for the dingus, jacka$$
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Was meant to be AI only, since Oleg didn't plan on incorporating radar or multi-seat control of a single turret.



Originally posted by heywooood:
..And thanks for the dingus, jacka$$
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Oh, you know full well that was a good spirited friendly jab.

Dingus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Beirut
05-12-2005, 07:59 PM
Gorgeous model.

Great work, really, really great!

(Especially for a dingus himself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)

Waldo.Pepper
05-12-2005, 07:59 PM
I had all the guys at a Veterans group, that I met through an email I wrote to the MAAM, all jazzed up too. I was Getting information from Warren Thompson We could have had it all too.

Did I give you enough info for a cockpit?

I could cry.

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 08:06 PM
Ya.

Never did anything with it though, since it would have been wasted work without radar.

goshikisen
05-12-2005, 08:22 PM
This model and it's exclusion are an excellent reason to support the amendment to the Defense Authorization bill that BSS_Vidar posted about. I know the Americans here have more pull than most when it comes to being heard on this issue but, as you know, it's something that affects everyone in this community.

Regards, Goshikisen.

Loki-PF
05-12-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Modeler is me, dingus.

<STRIKE>It WAS for PF, before N/G had PMS.</STRIKE>

(Pay Me Syndrome)

"N/G" Has no legal "issues" with Ubi OR 1C. Never has. Anything you've heard to the contrary is tripe

heywooood
05-12-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Was meant to be AI only, since Oleg didn't plan on incorporating radar or multi-seat control of a single turret.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
..And thanks for the dingus, jacka$$
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Oh, you know full well that was a good spirited friendly jab.

Dingus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

heheheh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif naturally,....ol' Heywooood hasn't stopped taking his meds just yet, pal.

Your work on this one is excellent PE - 'tis a shame and a half they didn't have the time to get radar implemented...and too bad it wont be AI at least.

GoToAway
05-12-2005, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Loki-PF:
"N/G" Has no legal "issues" with Ubi OR 1C. Never has. Anything you've heard to the contrary is tripe I see. So you're saying that Oleg lied and basically threw out models like PlaneEater's here, some of which were actually paid for as I understand it, for absolutely no reason at all.

Thanks for the inside scoop.

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 08:50 PM
To be perfectly honest, the guts of that model aren't really up to snuff for IL2 (currently), although it would take very little work, on my part, to fix that.

I'm not even that fond of those renders.

I just whipped the model out this afternoon because I felt like jerking folks around. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by GoToAway:
So you're saying that Oleg lied and basically threw out models like PlaneEater's here, some of which were actually paid for as I understand it, for absolutely no reason at all.

Thanks for the inside scoop.


I was never paid for anything. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Did a P-40B external that didn't get used, did the geometry for the cockpits that SaQson used to finish the pits, and did the Widow up there.

All I got was my name in the 'Special Thanks To:' section. Which isn't half bad, but I'm living on ramen right now. :\

Loki-PF
05-12-2005, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Loki-PF:
"N/G" Has no legal "issues" with Ubi OR 1C. Never has. Anything you've heard to the contrary is tripe I see. So you're saying that Oleg lied and basically threw out models like PlaneEater's here, some of which were actually paid for as I understand it, for absolutely no reason at all.

Thanks for the inside scoop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try to come around more often, and maybe you'll catch on quicker. Oleg has specifically stated that there was no lawsuit. I'm quoting *him* knuckle-head.

As far as throwing away planes that were paid for... Well I guess the author just answered you on that one didn't he?

GoToAway
05-12-2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Loki-PF:
Try to come around more often, and maybe you'll catch on quicker. Oleg has specifically stated that there was no lawsuit. I'm quoting *him* knuckle-head. "No lawsuit" does not mean "no legal dispute."

The exact goings on have not been made publically clear. Unless you know something that nobody else does and would like to enlighten us, of course.

goshikisen
05-12-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Loki-PF:
Oleg has specifically stated that there was no lawsuit.

It seems Ubi sidestepped the legal issue by sending a cheque to N/G. I guess semantically speaking the assertion that N/G have never had a legal issue with Oleg is correct... it never came to it because they made their cash without exploring the legality of anything. Ubi set a dangerous precedent... or at least perpetuated one.

One wonders what would have happened if the "scary letter" that N/G no doubt sent to Ubi was simply ignored.

heywooood
05-12-2005, 10:04 PM
I can think of two scary letters to send N/G..

F.U.

SaQSoN
05-12-2005, 10:08 PM
Goshikisen described the situation exhactly as it was.

Wish, the other posters also had such ability to understand things, as he has...

Yog_Shoggoth
05-12-2005, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Loki-PF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Modeler is me, dingus.

<STRIKE>It WAS for PF, before N/G had PMS.</STRIKE>

(Pay Me Syndrome)

"N/G" Has no legal "issues" with Ubi OR 1C. Never has. Anything you've heard to the contrary is tripe </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Grumman has been trying to avoid the issue, due to bad publicity, but it has given demands for funds from not only sims, but also model manufacturers. Without trying to pick a fight, your statement is bunk.

Badsight.
05-12-2005, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Oogle at something you guys can't have. looks cool

TY for sharing

Badsight.
05-12-2005, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by GoToAway:
The exact goings on have not been made publically clear. Unless you know something that nobody else does and would like to enlighten us, of course. there was an interesting post made by the dev of a new WW2 game

he posted it at a Game Developers board , gave some good info on what went on

Model Plane makers were the first to be targeted by this i believe

IL2-chuter
05-13-2005, 01:47 AM
Nice model (props weren't handed, though. Both were right hand). Due to turbulance problems the turret was removed after A model production, with it returning later in B production. Some A models had turret removed (and installed fuel tank), others removed turret, installed fixtures and guns (straight ahead and with a fuel tank under) and re-installed original turret fairings for forward fire only (obviously) and moved Radarman to second seat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Would be a fun plane . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LeadSpitter_
05-13-2005, 02:56 AM
nice model i wonder if it will make it into fs2004 or cfs3

gombal40
05-13-2005, 03:16 AM
yeah the Gibadge way... and we all know why http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Feathered_IV
05-14-2005, 03:54 AM
US aircraft arn't really my bag but a beautiful model nonetheless http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


It is a bit hopeless doing night fighters though. AI aircraft are lit up like christmas trees and the gunners all have infra red goggles. No realism to be found in FB/PF night missions. Maybe BoB will be different............


SaQSoN, next time you have Oleg's ear, maybe you could ask if an addition could be introduced to the config file to switch off all AI nav lights?

ku101-Ink.
05-14-2005, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Oogle at something you guys can't have.
I actually am still hoping to skin this, because I'd like to use the model in my demo reel. If there's somebody willing to skin it, I can send you the files.

My hands up! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TAGERT.
05-14-2005, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
Oogle at something you guys can't have. Pfffff! Who need it when we got the Do335, Go229, and Bf109Z! Unless you really like flying allied advanced stuff you shouldnt mind at all!

sammy4657
05-14-2005, 10:13 AM
Hey. this is a really stupid question but... Can you fly that plane on your game or doesn't it let you?

crazyivan1970
05-14-2005, 06:26 PM
You are terrible man PE... terrible

LuckyBoy1
05-14-2005, 06:40 PM
There doesn't have to be a lawsuit to change business plans. Just the threat of it... even if you are right and all the costs involved can stop companies and people from doing all sorts of things.

PlaneEater
05-14-2005, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You are terrible man PE... terrible

Yes, Ivan, I am. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

moonsign
05-16-2005, 11:26 PM
Leadsplitter: your p-61 Black Widow, can be flown on FS2004.I have 296 airplanes in the sim, and it's one of them. In FS2004, you can fly almost any aircraft made, in any livery.Now,that Il-2,PF, have gotten stale,I fly FS 2004,a lot.Microsoft,does'nt get sick,or have babies,or wrecks..oh well.

Croglet
05-17-2005, 07:46 AM
Nice work there PlanEater. I'm in the process of my 1st aircraft model. A few questions for you if you don't mind- I'm guessing the panels are bump mapped, can you simply use the reference pic as the map or did you have to retrace the lines in photoshop to clean them up?

How many polys? Obviously a twin engine, twin fuselage aircraft is gonna be a few more than something like a P51 etc.

Did you wire the control surfaces so for example when the left aileron goes down the right one goes up etc?

And how long did that take to get that far?

PlaneEater
05-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Croglet:
Nice work there PlanEater. I'm in the process of my 1st aircraft model. A few questions for you if you don't mind- I'm guessing the panels are bump mapped
Yep.


can you simply use the reference pic as the map or did you have to retrace the lines in photoshop to clean them up?

I did a bit of both. I cut up the reference drawings and lay them out as I would the UVW map when I'm assigning UVW coordinates to the geometry, so I have a stencil to work with. Since some of it matched up, I just used what matched and scribbled in the rest.

Those renders, in all honesty, suck pretty bad. Notice there's no bumpmapping from the trailing edge on back. These were whipped together just to irk people, literally. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


How many polys? Obviously a twin engine, twin fuselage aircraft is gonna be a few more than something like a P51 etc.

I don't remember specifically. I believe it came out to more than 4000 and less than 4500. Luthier wanted it at 3500 and I told him I had a freeway for sale.


Did you wire the control surfaces so for example when the left aileron goes down the right one goes up etc?


I know how to, but I didn't. The model was originally intended for IL-2 and all animation programming is done by Oleg's team, so I did just geometry.



And how long did that take to get that far?

Too **** long. Several months, with a number of restarts and near-restarts.

As soon the amendment to the Defense Spending bill goes through the Armed Services Commitee in the US House of Representitives, if Oleg is interested in adding the P-61, I'll finish the model. Not much is left to do on it--just touchups. For IL-2, it's almost done. For renders like those, there's still a lot of work to bring it up to par.

Croglet
05-18-2005, 04:04 AM
Thanks for the reply Planeeater, there was another modeller, Skyraider3D, thats been giving me some pointers aswell so maybe if I get my model looking decent I'll post a pic for you lads to pick apart for me.

Definately not as easy as I thought it was gonna be and thats without having to worry about the poly count.

One more thing, do you know of any file type or plug-in that lets you use vector based images as maps in 3Ds?

ElAurens
05-18-2005, 05:32 AM
A pity we won't be able to fly the Black Widow.

BTW, they were not used exclusively at night.
In fact the first time that Zeros encountered them was in daylight. The Zeke pilots thought they were engaging B 25s, or some other medium bomber.
Imagine their shock at finding large, fast, good turning fighters....

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

p1ngu666
05-18-2005, 07:05 AM
yeah, was heavier than b25 i think, but good turn etc http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Enforcer572005
05-21-2005, 11:31 PM
re: the statement about MS not getting sick, having car wrecks etc....keep in mind that they also dont make sims that work right, or are reliable, nor do they listen to thier customers, fix stuff like bugs, offer free addon stuff by cd load, and work to improve any of their products-any user of windows knows that.

nor do they make misn blders in their sims that work right or consistantly in various computers.

Nor do they finish their sims or sofware....the cfs3 forums are full of references to this continued arrogant attitude by MS.

thats why i gave up on CFS2, whihc i used to really enjoy...it just got too difficult to use, since it didnt work right. any adon you see usually has some reference about "limitations" of hte sim.

Ill take Olegs wrecks and delays anyday to the arrogance and shoddy bsness practices of the worlds most powerful company.

A first yr law student could have filed a motion for an injunction against such nonsense, pending a lawsuit in federal court. they would have backed off in a heartbeat. all publishers, model makers, and especially Hollywood, would be put out of bsness. this is why htey have hired lawyers in the past that put this kind of garbage down. There is plenty of legal precedent for flushing such nonsense.Any check should have gone to a law student to file such as a class project....would have been a cakewalk.

Plelv44_Mangrov
06-28-2005, 12:34 AM
Hi PlaneEater!

Do you still need somebody to skin the model? If you do, please contact me by PM or by email mkuja(at)mbnet.fi