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idahosniper
03-03-2006, 05:35 PM
I was playing online today and there was this one He-111 that was gonna attack my airfield. So I dove in and attacked him and proceeded to empty my entire supply of 20mm ammo into his plane from my 3 20mm Shvak cannons mounted on my I-185.

This plane was full of holes and was leaking gas from at least 4 different spots. One of his engines was smoking a bit too. An allied Spitfire was attacking him also and hit him several times. Unforuntaly I missed with my rockets and, since I was out of ammo I decided to try to cut off his tail with my propeller. Bad idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif I accidentally rammed into him and wrecked my plane and he just kept on going.

So I took off from my airfield again(by this time he'd already bombed it) and went after him again but, unforuntaly he made it back to base. I don't know how he did it, some of his controls must have been damaged but he landed the plane. I was a little frustrated, to say the least.

I think I need to improve my shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Or at least my tail-cutting-off-with-propeller. By the way, have any of you managed to cut off someone elses tail with your propeller on purpose? Online, that is. I've done it offline before.

Treetop64
03-03-2006, 06:00 PM
Any gripes I have for this game are few and far between, but one of the rare ones I do have is that sometimes, some of the bombers are just too, too tough. Especially the late-patch Betties.

There have been times, while flying P-38s, I've unloaded entire magazines of .50 and 20mm into the back of Betties. Even though the aircraft now resembles a leaking cheese grater more than anything else, they still continue to fly - albeit while slowly and consistently losing altitude. More often than not, they die only after making a level crash landing, instead of catching alight and falling uncontrollably to the sea as they reportedly had a frequent habit to do during the conflict itself 60 years ago...

Another thing: Why the hell is it that while pounding the living daylights out of the back of the fusalage, I can shoot off elevators, the rudder, (and sometimes even entire rudder/vert. stabilizer assemblies themselves), and everything else that has the misfortune of being assembled to the back of the Betty, but the rear gunner is still alive and kicking, blasting away with his 20mm?!?! I mean, look at how exposed he is back there, man!!! Even if none of the rounds fired actually connected to the gunner, one would think that all the commotion going on back there would cause enough debris - glass and metal - to incapacitate the bugger!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

VW-IceFire
03-03-2006, 10:43 PM
Accurate or not...the best thing to do is hammer away at the same spot. If you hit his port engine the last time you did a pass on him...attack the port engine again...or try and set the port side fuel tank on fire.

The idea is to make one area of the plane so damaged that its unflyable.

They aren't invincible but the DM is only so capable and if you hit the plane in all different sectors then the damage, while crushing, is not severe enough to do something critical to cause an instant end to the bomber.

I've managed to take out two He-111's in a single pass, online, in a P-38J. Its doable....that was a lucky run but you just have to hit em right and hit em hard.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
03-03-2006, 10:50 PM
Don't take this as a "learn to shoot" post but IceFire is correct, pick a vulnerable spot. Engines, wingroots, ailerons. Rudder and elevators are not that great to go for especially towards the Betty, I've landed bombers with all kinds of damage, flaps work great as elevators, just have to land a bit faster, don't need the rudder until your on the ground, ailerons? Use the rudder if its still there.

Why are you trying to send 20MM rounds into the betty rear gunner, don't you know he is SuperMan until you take the seat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Waldo.Pepper
03-03-2006, 11:20 PM
into the back of Betties.
tsk-tsk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

JG52-6High
03-03-2006, 11:58 PM
"I accidentally rammed into him and wrecked my plane and he....."

Why don`t you guys learn to shoot the vital spots on a bomber, instead of just shooting, and if all fails, ramming the bomber???!!!??!! If you`d learn how to intercept a bomber correctly, you`d be racking kills instead of whining about bomber-toughness.

Serioulsy, since the JU88 came in the last patch, i have been flying it almost exclusively, and about 70-80% of all times i get rammed by some hotshot-i*iot who can`t aim. Imagine flying a long time to target (as mostly online in a bomber), and then suddenly exploding because of this... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


Really, fed-up.

6

HotelBushranger
03-04-2006, 12:39 AM
Tell me about it! I was a Ju-88 last night. Bombed 3 planes that were on dispersal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif and was flying back when some nut job trails my six and starts shooting at 1k away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif then tries to ram me cos he ran out of ammo after shootin like a nit!

In the end I landed, faulty flaps and all, and got the 3 kills http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

djetz
03-04-2006, 05:11 AM
I never have much problem with bombers. A few cannon shells in the right spot will knock 'em down every time. I find that if I aim for the wing root I can usually either knock the wing off, set an engine on fire, or kill the pilot/wreck the cockpit so the plane falls down.

Killing the AI gunners is very difficult (though not impossible) so I just try to not be where they're aiming. Don't fly in a straight line is the best advice I have for dealing with AI gunners. Once the plane is a write-off, the gunners can't do anything but try to bail.

MadRuski
03-04-2006, 05:14 AM
cut off his tail with my propeller

this is actuly posible?

idahosniper
03-04-2006, 05:23 AM
I was having a lot of trouble with lag, so it was making it difficult to aim properly. And yeah, I know that the best thing to do is to hit them in the same spot over and over. I'm kinda curious, did the damage modeling get reworked or something, because I WAS pouring a ton of fire at one of his engines and nothing interesting was happening so I aimed somewhere else. Sometimes you can wreck their control surfaces.

In the orginal Il-2 I used to be able to take them out with sustained machine gun or 20mm fire to one engine, but they have been taking a lot more hits lately before anything happens. Like the engines don't like to catch on fire very much, and you would think after taking 10 hits from a 20mm in one spot, a little more would happen than just a fuel leak and some light smoke.

As for the gunners, I've always wondered why when you're flying the plane and being attacked, all the turrets are getting jammed and your crew killed and wounded, doesn't this ever happen to the AI?

djetz
03-04-2006, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by idahosniper:
As for the gunners, I've always wondered why when you're flying the plane and being attacked, all the turrets are getting jammed and your crew killed and wounded, doesn't this ever happen to the AI?

AI gunners have the strength of ten because their hearts are pure.

Seriously, though, I'm sure we'd all like to know the answer to this question. I've silenced a few of them, but it isn't easy.

On the other hand, the AI that's supposed to be on YOUR side flies and shoots like the Keystone Kops. I was doing some ground-pounding with 3 AI "helpers" today, and two of them managed to fly right into each other while I was busy rocketing tanks. I turned around to see two parachutes open behind me, and checked to see what happened on the track.

I know that happened in real life, but even so, why are your own AI so dumb and the enemy's so tough?

WWSensei
03-04-2006, 07:00 AM
I've all but stopped flying on servers like greatergreen and warclouds because if you take a bomber it seems people don't even try to shoot anymore...just ram. Had one pinhead who attacked me while I was in a Stuka. A Stuka for godsake. He couldn't bring me down. Of course, he claimed I was over-armored when in reality 99% of his shots missed me completely even though I was pretty much straight level having already lost rudder and aerilon to flak.

So he rammed me....and thought it some sort of accomplishment. Sorry, but intentionally ramming a bomber that has already dropped it's bombs, is already heavily damaged and no longer a threat is probably one of the weakest and lamest game playing stunts I've ever seen.

Hoenire
03-04-2006, 07:09 AM
The bombers are tougher in 4.04 - be sure. Personally I think its a good thing as they were too easy to shoot down before.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
03-04-2006, 08:28 AM
I agreed. About the post about pouring alot of fire into the engine, on an HE-111, the engine can be hard to hit compared to hitting the wing, you may have been hitting just behind the engine, its a big wing after all, thus why so much ammo, coming in from the 3-5 O'clock/7-9 O'clock and aiming for the pit works good, as does the engines or ailerons. However this requires deflection practice.

On another note(not pointed to you idahosniper), anybody notice how almost 'every' single time a bomber is rammed the rammer says: Sorry, lag spike or something to that effect? Spikes always seem to happen just as they are 0.01. Maybe if they were not trying to RAM the bomber the spike wouldn't occur on their end, the server probably already registered the hit, it only took some time to lag out the rammer due to the collission.

VW-IceFire
03-04-2006, 08:32 AM
Another thing to try and keep in mind...the bullets generally do more damage when you are deflection shooting. So if you approach from above with a 40 degree deflection angle and manage to land a bunch of hits in the same area the effect is far greater than sitting away from six o'clock and pouring fire into him.

Most newer pilots figure that a bomber is an easy target and should just fall out of the sky when they hit it. Then they realize (or don't) that sitting dead six pouring fire into them is not all that effective (particularly if the shots aren't landing in a tight area) and that it exposes them to all sorts of defensive fire.

Don't use the stern attack angle...attack from th sides, above, infront, whatever. There is a double bonus in attacking from the sides as you can do more damage and you avoid their gunners.

Anyone who thinks that bombers are too tough is encouraged to take their bomber of choice into a dogfight or coop and have a go with trying to penetrate enemy airspace. Do it in a group too...just you see how quickly the group is whittled away.

Interminate
03-04-2006, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
I've all but stopped flying on servers like greatergreen and warclouds because if you take a bomber it seems people don't even try to shoot anymore...just ram. Had one pinhead who attacked me while I was in a Stuka. A Stuka for godsake. He couldn't bring me down. Of course, he claimed I was over-armored when in reality 99% of his shots missed me completely even though I was pretty much straight level having already lost rudder and aerilon to flak.

So he rammed me....and thought it some sort of accomplishment. Sorry, but intentionally ramming a bomber that has already dropped it's bombs, is already heavily damaged and no longer a threat is probably one of the weakest and lamest game playing stunts I've ever seen.

Not that I have had the opportunity to ram. but exactly why is this not acceptable if the pilot is able to take you down and survive. I think ramming is an option that should not be completely rejected. Unless they are doing it just out of frustration.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-04-2006, 10:54 AM
I find the best place to shoot at bombers is the wings, just inboard of the engines (between the engines and fuselage) I think this is where most bombers have their wing tanks and concentrated fire in this region will ignite them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Shooting engines is fine but you need to come either head on or at an acute angle from above or below, otherwise you're just hitting the back of the engine which doesn't seem to do much unless you're packing uber battleship cannons.

An AI bomber with a damaged engine will usually jettison his bombs, which at least stops one bombload getting through (assuming you intercept him in time of course)

Agree about shooting off control surfaces being a waste of time, eg when attacking B29 the big ailerons are about the first things to fall off but this doesn't seem to bother them too much http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Another good target with some bombers are the wingtips, powerful hits here will often cause the wing to fail which obviously is pretty terminal

JG52Uther
03-04-2006, 11:02 AM
Ramming bombers is for noobs.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-04-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Ramming bombers is for noobs.

I agree. Ramming the ground is where it's at http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LEBillfish
03-04-2006, 11:15 AM
In my wildest of moments I cannot imagine not trying to aim for wingroots or engines.....Why would you shoot at a great empty tube called a fusalage?......Granted, if you're a "gamer and not a simmer" you might try and take advantage of the "halve the plane" deal that happens all too often IMLTHO........Cockpits are great if head on....Elevators just to cripple (and cripling does have its value here "game wise").

Aim to kill......Not to hope. He111's are fodder for ShVAK

JG52Karaya-X
03-04-2006, 11:19 AM
Althoug I rarely fly bombers I usually get a laugh out of the utter stupidity (or just braindead kill-greed) of some fighter pilots. They camp on your six at 50m distance right in front of your guns, then get shot up so much that they are either PK'ed or have serious engine trouble. Of course they then write some obligatory "Bomber XY is soooo overmodelled" on the chat and either lawn-dart because they forgot to hold onto "that joystick-thinga" while typing or crash into you as a last testimony of their complete failure as fighter pilots

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

F6_Ace
03-04-2006, 11:46 AM
guy is worried about realism when he flies i-185?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

idahosniper
03-04-2006, 04:55 PM
Well, when I started this topic, I wasn't intending to turn it into a spot to complain about such and such online rookie that kamikazed your bomber after the most perfect bomb run ever. (no offense intended, and I hope no one will take that personally) I agree, you really ought not to kamikaze your plane into the enemys just so he dies. Not that I haven't done it before, whether on purpose or not. I'll try not to do it on purpose anymore. Just a thought on lag, it could make you accidentally crash into someone if you're at they're six o'clock postion and you get a spike.

As for cutting off the enemys tail w/propeller, it was possible in the orginal Il-2, I tried it a couple times with minimal damage to my plane. I haven't tried it with FB, maybe they changed it so you can't do that anymore. It's kinda cool though, you just use cockpit view and come up beneath them and goodbye tail. I'll go and test it quick in FB QMB and see whether it does work.

F6_Ace, is there a problem with the realism in the I-185? I like it fine as a fighter plane.

idahosniper
03-04-2006, 06:22 PM
So, I just tried it on QMB and it is possible to cut off the tail with your prop, unforunatly in FB it will render your engine inoperable. Unlike the orginal where it would merely spatter your fuselage with shrapnel. Oh well.

MadRuski
03-04-2006, 06:44 PM
dam i was really hoping on cutting someones tail of on FB

idahosniper
03-04-2006, 07:47 PM
Well, I only tried it with two planes that I figured would be pretty tough, the I-185(mostly because I like to fly it) and the La-7. You could test around with some other planes, maybe they are tougher but probably not, the prop just can't take it.

It might work with a twin engine because you'd only lose one engine and you would still be able to fly on the other, the only problem is that it helps a lot to be able to see the prop easily from cockpit view.

If you have the orginal Il-2 you can do it in there, I guess they didn't figure on desperate pilots that are out of ammo. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Olli72
03-05-2006, 02:11 AM
I have to compliment the red flyers on Spits vs 109 last night. On a 30 minute sortie i flew a Ju-88 alone. Right before my bombrun at 3000 m i was attacked by a Hurricane & P40. After the bombrun a Rata and i think a Lagg joined the party. I made it back to base (with numerous bullet holes and leaking fuel though).

But not once did anyone try to ram me. Good show http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JG52Karaya-X
03-05-2006, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by idahosniper:
F6_Ace, is there a problem with the realism in the I-185? I like it fine as a fighter plane.

The problem with the I-185 is that (like some other planes in IL2) never saw real action. Especially the M-71 version we have is pure fantasy because the engine was a disaster and never ran reliably - in the end the whole program for the M71 was cancelled (as was the I185 later on)

The M-82 version is the one that "could" have entered production if it wasn't for the political influence of Lawotchkin, Yakovlev and others who prevented the full-scale production of Polikarpovs I-185... only a handful were made and only used in test-flights and comparison trials. The M-82 was probably outclassed by the La5 anyway, which was lighter and thus more manoeuvrable, faster and climbed better...

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-05-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
I have to compliment the red flyers on Spits vs 109 last night. On a 30 minute sortie i flew a Ju-88 alone. Right before my bombrun at 3000 m i was attacked by a Hurricane & P40. After the bombrun a Rata and i think a Lagg joined the party. I made it back to base (with numerous bullet holes and leaking fuel though).

But not once did anyone try to ram me. Good show http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'm disgusted at the lack of commitment they showed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Helpplease2006
03-05-2006, 08:39 AM
They ram me every time I try a bombing mission. And they have always done so. BLOODY RAMMERS!

F19_Olli72
03-05-2006, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:


I'm disgusted at the lack of commitment they showed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

If your team is losing switch team and kamikaze their planes and pilots (meaning yourself) until they run out of planes and pilots. Bingo! Your team won the map! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Now...thats commitment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

zombiewolf92553
03-05-2006, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">into the back of Betties.
tsk-tsk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look at some gun cam footage 99.9% of bombers were shot down from 6 o clock position.
The problem is that you can kill the rear guner in this game but he just keeps shooting

JG52-6High
03-05-2006, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by zombiewolf92553:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">into the back of Betties.
tsk-tsk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look at some gun cam footage 99.9% of bombers were shot down from 6 o clock position.
The problem is that you can kill the rear guner in this game but he just keeps shooting </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that why online about 99% of the bombers get rammed? Because you can`t kill the rear-gunner? Good one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BTW, i just don`t believe that..99.9 of all kills...pfft.

6

djetz
03-05-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by zombiewolf92553:
Look at some gun cam footage 99.9% of bombers were shot down from 6 o clock position.
The problem is that you can kill the rear guner in this game but he just keeps shooting

It's a well known fact that 91.3% of all statistics are made up like I just made that one up.

In real life, air-gunners had to deal with all sorts of things that AI gunners in the game do not.

G-forces, fatigue, equipment failure, lack of 360 degree x-ray vision, and so on. I'm sure that in real-life it was easier to dodge air-gunners than it is in the game. Even so, real air-gunners did rack up a significant amount of kills.

Keep in mind that in real life it was very rare to find a single bomber - they travelled in formations for a reason. A couple of air gunners might be easy to avoid, but the sheer weight of firepower from, say, 50 of them would have been pretty damn dangerous. So much lead flying around would make attacking a bomber formation as terrifying as being in a bomber would have been.

Maybe that's why the AI gunners are so good: it compensates for the fact that you're unlikely to come-up against 25 or 30 bombers in-game.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-05-2006, 11:20 AM
Do what the pros did, sit >500m back and lob big cannon shells at them

Slipstream_
03-06-2006, 04:16 PM
It isn't a good bomber kill if you aren't scared all the time while you're firing at him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Even my lousy Hurri downs Betties and 111s in 4.04m, just put the convergence to 100-150m and start hitting something important for a second at that range.....preferably while overtaking him a bit. With 200-250 km/h or so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-06-2006, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by zombiewolf92553:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">into the back of Betties.
tsk-tsk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look at some gun cam footage 99.9% of bombers were shot down from 6 o clock position.
The problem is that you can kill the rear guner in this game but he just keeps shooting </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please note that in all of those cases the footage is at half speed and that they are almost always shooting an engine and not generally the fuselage...although many of those were probably from new pilots as well and aim for the big thing in the middle sounds so good.

The usual Luftwaffe tactic was to come at the B-17 formation from head on, try and do as much damage as possible, then come in from the rear and attack any crippled bombers from the first pass. The ones that lived generally did not do dead 6 attacks very often and certainly did it with speed as their advantage.

F6_Ace
03-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Read 'Most Dangerous Enemy' by Bungay.

Stated in there that most BoB attacks on bombers were from within a few degrees of 6 o'clock as pilot gunnery was quite poor even with many mgs.

If results of 6 o'clock attack in real life were as in game, I'd be speaking German now.

danke!

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 04:37 PM
Another thing: Why the hell is it that while pounding the living daylights out of the back of the fusalage, I can shoot off elevators, the rudder, (and sometimes even entire rudder/vert. stabilizer assemblies themselves), and everything else that has the misfortune of being assembled to the back of the Betty, but the rear gunner is still alive and kicking, blasting away with his 20mm?!?! I mean, look at how exposed he is back there, man!!! Even if none of the rounds fired actually connected to the gunner, one would think that all the commotion going on back there would cause enough debris - glass and metal - to incapacitate the bugger!


I hate Betty tailgunners.

The Betty is fast, so it takes a looong time to chase them in a P-40 and get above them for a dive, or even beside them for a slash.

I once used a Bf 110 with gun pods and unloaded into the tail of a Betty, and the !@# @#$% gunner survived.

=======

Re: General anti-bomber technique.

That's what 30mm is for.

I always aim for a wing root too. If I'm wide to one side, I hit an engine. If I'm wide to the other side, I hit the cockpit.

iroseland
03-06-2006, 04:57 PM
Hey,

I took out 3 111's in one pass on Spits V 109's a few weeks ago. There were 5 flying low against the water preparing a torp attack. I jumped them and dove in the big cannon corsair. I dove on thm from around 3000 feet so when I got in there I was hauling ASCII Made three smoke/burn on the first pass, looped over got them again smoked another and saw two drop. The whole time I was pretty sure I was going to die.

Used to be that I could take out a betty with a buffalo. Lots of very fast slashing attacks and staying the heck away from the cannons made it work. But since the last few patches, I have stopped bothering. Heck, Usually I dont even try to attck bombers anymore. The AI gunners are long range high deflection snipers.

I plain old dont bother with b25's unless I am hunting them in a 110 with extra cannons.


BSS_AIJO

VW-IceFire
03-06-2006, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Read 'Most Dangerous Enemy' by Bungay.

Stated in there that most BoB attacks on bombers were from within a few degrees of 6 o'clock as pilot gunnery was quite poor even with many mgs.

If results of 6 o'clock attack in real life were as in game, I'd be speaking German now.

danke!
During the Battle of Britain they usually attacked as a group all at the same time (this was standard RAF bomber attack doctrine that didn't change too much except for the range at which it was to be conducted). So a squadron of Hurricanes would come at the bombers, from a tail chaser position (although usually above or below so as not to be attacking from dead 6), and generally make their attacks as a co-ordinated group as much as possible.

Sometimes I find it funny that the AI sniper...err turret gunners are sometimes confused with humans doing the actual gunnery which is even more deadly.

Treetop64
03-06-2006, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">into the back of Betties.
tsk-tsk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok. I'll admit, it's not the smartest tactic...

But the Betty has such a fat @ss that it's difficult to resist chewing away at it! Why shoot at the wings and engines, when there is that nice, big, fat, round RUMP on Betty? Right?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 07:56 PM
Not that I have had the opportunity to ram. but exactly why is this not acceptable if the pilot is able to take you down and survive. I think ramming is an option that should not be completely rejected. Unless they are doing it just out of frustration.

Suppose a fighter pilot lost a plane every time he brought an enemy down. How long would his squadron commander keep him, rather than give the next plane to somebody who might be able to shoot?

There were exceptions. Russia fought with a lot of obsolescent aircraft, and engaged in more ramming than anyone. The favored techniques inclulded hitting an airleon with your wing, as close to the wing root as possible. Another was to chop off a rudder with your prop and glide down.

However, the Russians who excelled at that were fighting with outmoded, underarmed planes. In a decent plane, ramming begs the question: Why didn't you save your ammo until you were that close? Then you couldn't have missed.

=========

Re: Killing gunners.

By the time enough rounds have been fired to kill the gunner, the whole plane could have been shot down if those rounds had gone somewhere else.