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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:38 PM
Hurah!, Cheerie ho!, Tally Ho! good show! and all that.

Yes as one of the biggest Medeteranian Fans, I am depressed, that whe will fly the Spit and Hurries as well as the well known Emil again in a depressing climate. I live in the area The Netherlands, an with the Brits whe share the cold gray browngreen North sea and a similar depressing wheather overcast with lots of rain.

If you can't beat them yoin them!


Ok Now that i know that it will be BOB to follow up and leave behind the forgotten battles, I am pleased again I am not the person to stay unhappy over something and now I am looking forward to BOB from Maddox!

I dove in to my extensive WWII Airwar documentation and wouldlike to contribute some ideas for the next devellopment project.

If you say BOB you say:

1.RAF fliyng in the strategicly wrong "Vic" formation (Until Sailor Malan Introduces his variant of the four Ship formation.)

2.Taking off from grasstrips with at least 3 to four ac at once to save time in case of a 'scramble' (very usual during BOB)

3.Groundcontroll to major tom!
Very essential without coastal radar, grond based airguards (somethimes visual handicapped who had better hearing) and constant air patrols And the very evective RAF Groundcontrollers "the Battle Of Britain" whould now be known as: "Der Eroberung von England" (The Conquering of England!)

4. The London Blitz,
The extensive bombing of London, after the RAF Bombercommand retaliated the accidental bombing of England's Capitol took place during the night wich gave the Luftwaffe Kampfflieger better chance of returning.
Therefor the Night battles should form a important part of the sim, exhaust glare should be modeled! (The key feature for the nightfighter to find its target!
Ofcourse two Importand RAF nightfighters need to be develloped:
The Boulton Paul Defiant and the succesfull Beaufighter, and of course their very successfull counter part the Messerschmit BF110.

5. Ring the bell and we run like hell!
Typical for the BOB was longtime waiting for RAF Fighterpilots before take off and the exiting rush when scrambling. It would greatly enhance athmosphere for the campaigns to start a mission outside of the aircraft, this could be a pre-made track that starts before a mission (Maybe when loading) and closes a mission with, when succesfull a track of your groundcrew and petdog welcoming you with enthaushasm or you beeing captured or rescued depending where your ac chrashes.
By the way what would the RAF have done with all those WAAF women! they need to be seen aswell in the BOB sim.

6.Gun patches,
So distinctif For RAF fighters where those red patches of fabric over the .303 gun muzzles these served two purposes, One it kept out dirt of the gun barrel and reduced drag, when used the patch is blown away and it was easy to see for the ground crew if one of the guns did not work, or if the guns needed to be rearmed.

7.Emil rules!
The trusy Emil had some importand features in wich it outclassed its RAF opponents:

It could dive away from the early model Spitfire and Hurricane without them beeing able to follow because the Merlin stopped feeding under Negative G.

The Emil had two 20mm cannon where its opponents had the obsolete .303 guns It is known that several medium Luftwaffe Bombers returned to France with over 200 rifle caliberhits both LW Fighter and Bombers where protected with armour that could sustain these hits and the rubber selfsealing tanks helped against fire develloping.
The Spitfire Mk1 did not have self sealing tanks!
during BOB there were some experimental Mk1 featured 2x 20mm wich were hampered by frequent stopages!
Please don't make the historic mistake again as has been done with the I-16-12 2x 20mm Of wich only 12 examples have seen action, and they are all over Both IL2 & FB!

8.The tacticans,
For Instance The Luftwaffe made good use of the fact that the where the attacker, they would climb to extreme high altitude on their way to England and always have a head start this way over the RAF wich would be climbing towards them and could brake off towards France when in trouble.

Jabo's flew extremely low to avoid radar detection

As mentioned before Sailor Malan was a great tactician who ignored the standard Vic formation and there fore became one of the most succesfull surviving RAF leaders.
His counter part Werner Moelders who develloped the 'Schwarm' formation gave the Luftwaffe a head start with this tactic among others.
It would be great to see some Induvidual A.I. FM models for Ace pilots like Johnny Johnson, Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader and Helmut Wick, Their Individual styles made them imortal not just them beeing high scorers, It always bugs me to hear aces like Graf or Hartmann shouting for help because they make stupid mistake when you fly with or against them!





Further i would recomend the following Books Allied photos and info on BOB and the Med:

"Spitfire at War"
Alfred Price
isbn 0 7110 0560 5

("Hurricane at War"
"Mustang at War"
By the same author are recomended aswell Don't know the Isbn code )

"The Fight for the Skies"
Roger A. Freeman
isbn 0-304-35298-5


I have very good memorys on the vintage Flightsim BOB by Lucas Arts, especialy its very informative manual that i re-read from time to time.

Regards,

Kees.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:38 PM
Hurah!, Cheerie ho!, Tally Ho! good show! and all that.

Yes as one of the biggest Medeteranian Fans, I am depressed, that whe will fly the Spit and Hurries as well as the well known Emil again in a depressing climate. I live in the area The Netherlands, an with the Brits whe share the cold gray browngreen North sea and a similar depressing wheather overcast with lots of rain.

If you can't beat them yoin them!


Ok Now that i know that it will be BOB to follow up and leave behind the forgotten battles, I am pleased again I am not the person to stay unhappy over something and now I am looking forward to BOB from Maddox!

I dove in to my extensive WWII Airwar documentation and wouldlike to contribute some ideas for the next devellopment project.

If you say BOB you say:

1.RAF fliyng in the strategicly wrong "Vic" formation (Until Sailor Malan Introduces his variant of the four Ship formation.)

2.Taking off from grasstrips with at least 3 to four ac at once to save time in case of a 'scramble' (very usual during BOB)

3.Groundcontroll to major tom!
Very essential without coastal radar, grond based airguards (somethimes visual handicapped who had better hearing) and constant air patrols And the very evective RAF Groundcontrollers "the Battle Of Britain" whould now be known as: "Der Eroberung von England" (The Conquering of England!)

4. The London Blitz,
The extensive bombing of London, after the RAF Bombercommand retaliated the accidental bombing of England's Capitol took place during the night wich gave the Luftwaffe Kampfflieger better chance of returning.
Therefor the Night battles should form a important part of the sim, exhaust glare should be modeled! (The key feature for the nightfighter to find its target!
Ofcourse two Importand RAF nightfighters need to be develloped:
The Boulton Paul Defiant and the succesfull Beaufighter, and of course their very successfull counter part the Messerschmit BF110.

5. Ring the bell and we run like hell!
Typical for the BOB was longtime waiting for RAF Fighterpilots before take off and the exiting rush when scrambling. It would greatly enhance athmosphere for the campaigns to start a mission outside of the aircraft, this could be a pre-made track that starts before a mission (Maybe when loading) and closes a mission with, when succesfull a track of your groundcrew and petdog welcoming you with enthaushasm or you beeing captured or rescued depending where your ac chrashes.
By the way what would the RAF have done with all those WAAF women! they need to be seen aswell in the BOB sim.

6.Gun patches,
So distinctif For RAF fighters where those red patches of fabric over the .303 gun muzzles these served two purposes, One it kept out dirt of the gun barrel and reduced drag, when used the patch is blown away and it was easy to see for the ground crew if one of the guns did not work, or if the guns needed to be rearmed.

7.Emil rules!
The trusy Emil had some importand features in wich it outclassed its RAF opponents:

It could dive away from the early model Spitfire and Hurricane without them beeing able to follow because the Merlin stopped feeding under Negative G.

The Emil had two 20mm cannon where its opponents had the obsolete .303 guns It is known that several medium Luftwaffe Bombers returned to France with over 200 rifle caliberhits both LW Fighter and Bombers where protected with armour that could sustain these hits and the rubber selfsealing tanks helped against fire develloping.
The Spitfire Mk1 did not have self sealing tanks!
during BOB there were some experimental Mk1 featured 2x 20mm wich were hampered by frequent stopages!
Please don't make the historic mistake again as has been done with the I-16-12 2x 20mm Of wich only 12 examples have seen action, and they are all over Both IL2 & FB!

8.The tacticans,
For Instance The Luftwaffe made good use of the fact that the where the attacker, they would climb to extreme high altitude on their way to England and always have a head start this way over the RAF wich would be climbing towards them and could brake off towards France when in trouble.

Jabo's flew extremely low to avoid radar detection

As mentioned before Sailor Malan was a great tactician who ignored the standard Vic formation and there fore became one of the most succesfull surviving RAF leaders.
His counter part Werner Moelders who develloped the 'Schwarm' formation gave the Luftwaffe a head start with this tactic among others.
It would be great to see some Induvidual A.I. FM models for Ace pilots like Johnny Johnson, Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader and Helmut Wick, Their Individual styles made them imortal not just them beeing high scorers, It always bugs me to hear aces like Graf or Hartmann shouting for help because they make stupid mistake when you fly with or against them!





Further i would recomend the following Books Allied photos and info on BOB and the Med:

"Spitfire at War"
Alfred Price
isbn 0 7110 0560 5

("Hurricane at War"
"Mustang at War"
By the same author are recomended aswell Don't know the Isbn code )

"The Fight for the Skies"
Roger A. Freeman
isbn 0-304-35298-5


I have very good memorys on the vintage Flightsim BOB by Lucas Arts, especialy its very informative manual that i re-read from time to time.

Regards,

Kees.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:57 PM
- 2.Taking off from grasstrips with at least 3 to four
- ac at once to save time in case of a 'scramble'
- (very usual during BOB)

hooah!



- 5. Ring the bell and we run like hell!
- Typical for the BOB was longtime waiting for RAF
- Fighterpilots before take off and the exiting rush
- when scrambling. It would greatly enhance
- athmosphere for the campaigns to start a mission
- outside of the aircraft, this could be a pre-made
- track that starts before a mission (Maybe when
- loading) and closes a mission with, when succesfull
- a track of your groundcrew and petdog welcoming you
- with enthaushasm or you beeing captured or rescued
- depending where your ac chrashes.
- By the way what would the RAF have done with all
- those WAAF women! they need to be seen aswell in the
- BOB sim.

At the very least it would be nice to have nice interactive graphics instead of menus for briefings and debriefings ala EAW.

Modeling ground crew doing their thing while you are taking off and landing would be a nice touch and would alleviate the static feeling Fb has now.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 08:28 PM
Thnx,

And I forgot:

Opening Cockpits!
RAF Fighter Pilotss Openend their Canopy and half cocked their cockpit doors before as standard isue when landing so they had better vieuw of the landing area and better chance of escape incase of a crashing.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:17 PM
Flydutch wrote:
- Thnx,
-
- And I forgot:
-
- Opening Cockpits!
- RAF Fighter Pilotss Openend their Canopy and half
- cocked their cockpit doors before as standard isue
- when landing so they had better vieuw of the landing
- area and better chance of escape incase of a
- crashing.
-
-
Bader opened his canopy on the way home to smoke cigars, you know /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:31 PM
now that would be cool but bob will be kick *** in everyway will have to upgrade my comp for it but i dont care i hope a lot of these sorts of little touhs will be in it they will add so much to the game making it feel real as far as a game can go

unless you have certified, verified data and proof of this or have actually flown the planes that stop your whineing!

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:22 AM
Flydutch wrote:
-
- The Emil had two 20mm cannon where its opponents had
- the obsolete .303 guns It is known that several
- medium Luftwaffe Bombers returned to France with
- over 200 rifle caliberhits both LW Fighter and
- Bombers where protected with armour that could
- sustain these hits and the rubber selfsealing tanks
- helped against fire develloping.
- The Spitfire Mk1 did not have self sealing tanks!
- during BOB there were some experimental Mk1 featured
- 2x 20mm wich were hampered by frequent stopages!
- Please don't make the historic mistake again as has
- been done with the I-16-12 2x 20mm Of wich only 12
- examples have seen action, and they are all over
- Both IL2 & FB!

Couldn't stop myself.

1. Many German fighter pilots, including Galland, would've preferred 8xMG for their fighters. The MG-FF was a poor anti-fighter weapon with poor Mv and ballistics and a low ammo load. Conversely the .303 was a poor anti-bomber weapon but was quite effective against the less sturdy but more evasive fighters. It could be argued that both sides had what the other needed for the battle.

2. The cannon armed I-16 variant in IL2 is the Type 24 which was armed with 2x20mm cannon and served in significant numbers.


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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:42 AM
FiNaZZi wrote:

--
- Bader opened his canopy on the way home to smoke
- cigars, you know
That was Galland. Bader smoked his pipe.

How about being able to play draughts before a scramble with a squadron mate? :-)

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:22 AM
It would be nice, if the airports (runways) remained damaged for a few minutes (Multiplayer) after an attack and were proportionally repaired in the single player.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:47 AM
Yes, and the countryside covered with obstructions, such as fences or cows, so pilots would have to use the runway..

rds

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 05:13 AM
S` very good facts that the author of the post put down.

I'd like to add a few things that are facts:

The germans in BoB had a style of fighting where in an engagement you would break off into 2 planes.. where 1 would be the "ace" leader who had the high score and the other would cover his 6. Thats why there were high scores because only that 1 guy made the kills all the time.

Eppesbrogruppe 210 (not sure how to say that) was like a special opperations squadron comparable to the navy seals today only pilots) They flew Bf-110s very low level to hit targets such as spitfire factories and radar towers. They were very effective at this in the beginning and deteriorated towards the end. They managed to catch fighters on the ground which was very very rare because of the efficiency of the radar system and the sector stations. Might incorporate this into the campaign.

Stukas were used in the beginning then got massacred. So were not used at all throughout the rest of the battle.

Bf-110s were horrible in daylight. The RAF pilots always wanted to fight them more than the 109s. The only time the bf-110s were used was when the Luftwaffe needed the range. This forced the Luftwaffe to use there 109s more. For the Germans to accomplish the date that hitler set out for the invasion of britain (sorry i'm rusty on dates and names here just got jist of things) the Luftwaffe had to maintain a 7 to 1 kill ratio every time the went out. Which was impossible with their leadership of Goring with his health problems and leadership within the Luftwaffe and also with the range of the 109 being insufficient and a whole host of other factors.

Another thing is that when the bf-109 pushed negative g's it would belch a puff of smoke something to do with the carberator or something.. in which RAF pilots thought they shot it and mistakenly submitted a kill for it which often led to over achieved kills.

There's other things also that i can't remember now.. but i so highly recommend that book for the members of Maddox Inc. to read. The more research you do doesn't hurt you.


The book that i read to get all this info is called "The Most Dangerous Enemy A history of the Battle of Britain" by Stephen Bungay. Very good book. **Highly Recommended** ISBN 1-85410-801-8

Lieutenant Hell's Angel 90 T of the 303rd Bombardment Group (H) "Hell's Angels"

Callsign: PirAnha
"Terror of the Skies"

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:41 PM
jmmoric wrote:
- Yes, and the countryside covered with obstructions,
- such as fences or cows, so pilots would have to use
- the runway..
-
A lot of the fields over South East England were deliberately obstructed to try and handicap any airborne assuault, so that would be quite realistic.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 09:00 PM
its "Erprobungsgruppe 210". it had 2 squadrons Bf110 and 1 squadron Bf109. it was a "test" Jabo unit.


it flew together with II.(Schlacht)/LG2 (Bf109E-x/B) the first low level attacks over UK.


and that would be a great career choice in the upcoming BoB game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 05:49 AM
Hobnail, thnx for the info, but don't you agree that the Emil in the hands of a skilled gunner would be more dangerous with its cannon then the riffle caliber guns?
Why would the german 'Experten' Pilots be so succesfull at downing the RAF fighters?
Why did the later Spitfire upgrade to this sort of weapon while it might lose a 'edge' over the 109? (That it needed it to down bombers i agree with, but they would not make it a lesser air superiority Fighter at the same time when the Hurri was more suitable at downing Bombers)

I have read that only Twelve of the I-16 with 2x 20mm saw action, I am interested in your source that they saw extentive service. Tough i do not believe they came in action against rudels succecfull attack at the Marat!
Rudel never met a enemy fighter in it's impresiv career, Have any of you tryed to fly the mission against the Marat in FB single missions? It is A Humorous attack at History.

Any way, I hope the Spit Mk's in BOB Campaigns will be realisticly modeled and not run into A squadron of Mk I's with perfectly working 20mm' when I am Fliyng the Emil with insufcient MG FFs!


I think the Idea of bomcraters on runways might be interesting I think it a extra Exiting & Realistic feature to land your plane on a holed field. Lets not Forget The RAF was Almost bombed out of action before the retaliaton on Berlin triggered the Blitz on London and hence the RAF could rise as if a Phenix from the fire!

Regards,
Kees,

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 06:15 AM
- 7.Emil rules!
- The trusy Emil had some importand features in wich
- it outclassed its RAF opponents:

Hmmmmm.... well it had higher performance than the Hurricane at least, but it was a very even match to the Spitfire Ia.

Oh and don't forget with the Emil, that once you are over England, you only have around 20mins fighting time before you have to head for home, otherwise you are going to get acquainted with the channel.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- 8.The tacticans,
- For Instance The Luftwaffe made good use of the fact
- that the where the attacker, they would climb to
- extreme high altitude on their way to England and
- always have a head start this way over the RAF wich
- would be climbing towards them and could brake off
- towards France when in trouble. h the Channel.

the RAF did have much better fighter control though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It will be interesting to see how the Bf-110 (lets hope it is flyable!) comes out, as by many accounts it had much better performance than the Spitfire or Hurricane over 20000 feet, and was very effective in the high altitude sweep role. It was mainly the stupid decision to make the 110's fly close escort to bombers that lead to such high losses and the bad rep.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:34 AM
hobnail wrote:

- 2. The cannon armed I-16 variant in IL2 is the Type
- 24 which was armed with 2x20mm cannon and served in
- significant numbers.

As fas as I know I-16 type 24 was produced with default armament of 2x wing mounted Shkas and 2x Engine mounted Shkas.. so no cannons in this variant, like we have in FB.. See I-16 Type 24 (http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/i-16-t24.html) .. so I understand, what Flydutch meant.. there were very few Type 24 armed with 2x Shvak, maybe because limited supply of of Shvaks in 1940.. Sure there was some individuals armed with 2x Shvak, but not in large numbers.

____________________________________



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/sig3.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:58 AM
If you say BOB you say...

the press say that:

"This came to me from UBI PR:

The Battle of Britain: Cliffs of Dover (Title TBC)


Product Description

The Battle of Britain (TBoB) is the next World War II flight simulation title from 1C: Maddox Games, creators of the worldwide acclaimed
IL-2 Sturmovik series. TBoB will take place in 1940 during the "Battle of Britain," between England and Germany (plus Italy), and it allows players to fly for as either the British or German (Italian) air force.

Key Features

. Flyable aircraft - At least 10-11 highly detailed English, German and Italian aircraft - including Spitfire, Hurricane, Messerschmitt 109 and Stuka.

. Non-Flyable aircraft - Between 10-17 AI controlled aircraft.

. Huge number of missions - 20 single-player missions & 10 multiplayer missions (At least).

. Brand new game map - TBoB will take place from central England in the North, to Northern France in the South (The part of map will include Belgium - area close to French border, from where were flying Italian AF, involved in BoB). The game-world will consist of a single large map and will encompass cities, towns, roads, airfields, radar stations, ports, and industrial areas.

. Enhanced campaign system - The dynamic campaign system will be an "evolution" of the Forgotten Battles campaign engine and will include expanded pilot and squadron management.

. Dynamic campaign system - Allows players to rewrite history (ability to set two variants in realistic settings for campaign system. One for realistic, and one for "rewriting history").

. Scalable gameplay - Not only appealing for sim enthusiasts, TBoB will attract the novices too through an enhanced novice mode.

. Even more precise flight model - Based on the Forgotten Battles FM development with additional modules of precise calculations.

. New weather effects (non-constant on the map area) - New "sky", especially at altitude, clouds, rain, etc that will look and works better than in FB.

. New 3D engine - highly detailed objects and ground, including coastal lines and sea. Expandable with add-ons for new theatres.

. Air-stream effects - When flying directly behind another aircraft, there will be a noticeable realistic prop-wash effect.

. Multiplayer option - 32 at minimum, dogfights, cooperative and team play with basic and special maps."

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 07:08 PM
mikeyg007 wrote:
- A lot of the fields over South East England were
- deliberately obstructed to try and handicap any
- airborne assuault, so that would be quite realistic.

I have images of farmers coming out with their
shotguns to tell Falschirmjaeger to "Get orf my land!!"

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:49 PM
Oh and some more ideas:

For enhancing take off and landing athmosphere, It would be good to have;

1.Colour coded Signal flares, to give permision for take off or landings. Red Flares where also used by pilots to anounce that they came in with a wounded crew or for emergency landing in that case firemen and ambulance would follow the landing aircraft.
using signal flares was standard isue during the war.
This feature would be usefull aside from adding realism, as it is modeled now it is so unrealistic taking off in a row with out take off clearence!

2.Sound of ringing bell, to anounce a scramble.
As can be seen in WWII documantaries a bell would serve to alarm the pilots on duty for a quick take off or 'Hot scramble'or the pilots would be alarmed by a officer who would be informed by phone and would anounce wich group would take off.

3.
Briefing:

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 10:21 PM
Oh and some more ideas:

For enhancing take off and landing athmosphere, It would be good to have;

1.Colour coded Signal flares, to give permision for take off or landings. Red Flares where also used by pilots to anounce that they came in with a wounded crew or for emergency landing in that case firemen and ambulance would follow the landing aircraft.
using signal flares was standard isue during the war.
This feature would be usefull aside from adding realism, as it is modeled now it is so unrealistic taking off in a row with out take off clearence!

2.Sound of ringing bell, to anounce a scramble.
As can be seen in WWII documantaries a bell would serve to alarm the pilots on duty for a quick take off or 'Hot scramble'or the pilots would be alarmed by a officer who would be informed by phone and would anounce wich group would take off.

3.Briefing:
It would be getting the player really into the sim when he would get a pre and de-briefing simular to the real thing,
Before you start a campaign or single mission you would see a 3D briefing room with a map maybe some pilots sitting next to you a intelegence oficer would describe the mission,(Audio voice) and point out the planned waypoint route with a stick on a large map and warn you of enemy AA and a/c. The same room could be used darkened to show some damage report photographs (Bombing missions)or guncamera film at the debriefing, or serve as Intelengence Dia slide show for info on the target.

4.Tactical A.I. enhancement, to make the arialfights and ground attacks more interesting, please some more details for the Campaign model. When attacking a ground target use several formations like flight 1, to soften up AAA (Flak) Flight 2, to attack main target flight 3, to finnish off secondary targets and photograph for damage report debriefing.
This was the way a proper attack was set up, it would be good to relive this in the best sim on the BOB.

5.Channel warfare,
When fliyng over the channel this was far from boring since it was full of shipping and anti-shipping activity.
Contrary of what is often written and accepted that during the BOB the JU87 Stuka was shown to be a failure when confronted with Huricane and Spitfire, in fact figure show that despite mounted loses the Stuka had achieved a Impressive kill ratio on the channel convoy's (And every other theather during the entire war!)
The Channel and the Medetaranian will be exelent and exiting anti-shipping area's for the Stuka's and a challence to try to stop the slaughter of these convoys by bombers and U-boats!

Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 09:29 AM
If you say BOB...You Say HIGH ALTITUDE Engine!

Ok, IL2 & FB don't have a High altitude model, wich is a shame when you fly in a late war Luftwaffe Aircraft with pressurized cabin and boosted engine, cause those early and pre-War Polikarpof's will be able to hunt chase you al the way up were in reality their pilots would have sufocated along with their radial engines!

But as we know most ofthe fighting in the eastern sky's took place at low to medium altitude, A VVS mistake since the Luftwaffe was able to bounce many a helpless soviet pilots this way and the killratio of the LW weather overestimated, true or underestimated does tell a lot!
( A Georgian Friend from my wife told us that her grandfather had been a Pilot before the war and beliefed he survived because of that fact during the war cause he witnessed how the VVS put so many inexpierienced young pilots into battle to serve as cannon fudder!)

But now that the Battle of Britain is to be modeled a High altitude engine is defetly needed.
The LW Jagdwaffe tactic when on their way towards Britain was to climb as high as possible (Unlike the Jabo's who would penetrate under radar hight) to have a advantage possition over the defenders who would take of towards them, the general complaint by the RAF pilots was that the Luftwaffe was always abovethem when engaging!

This way the LW could even break away at their choise to go "screaming towards France" as the RAF pilots tought this was a unfair and unsportif tactic!
(But how did that english phrase go again? "He who runs from fights away wil live to fight a other day!")

Only stupid or very brave LW pilots would enter a dogfight(turningfight) with the RAF superior turners, and ignore their own Bf109's superiorety at Booming and zooming.

Did you now that the highest arialfight during WWII (Aprox. 13km) took place between a specially rebuilt Mk IX vs a highaltitude Ju86 bomber over the UK?

Ofcourse a sim that wants to recreate the fight for air superiorety between the Spitfire and Messerschmit 109 must feature a advanced high altitude model since the race between these two was getting faster and higer then the other.
Also Photo reconesance 'spyplanes' would benefit from this and give a extra demension to the sim!
regards,
kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 12:18 AM
hi all


Very excited about the BoB sim that is on its way.

I do hope the Spitfire and Hurricane engine sound is correct unlike the Hurricane in FB and no combat/take off setting for the flaps on these aircraft, the Spit and the Hurri had only two settings fully down or fully up.

I live in the UK very close to a BoB airfield( RAF Chuch Fenton) and from this airfield in the mid 1970's flew in Chipmunk training aircraft as a Air cadet.The pilot who took me up on these air experience flights was an ex Spitfire pilot. I have vivid memories of him demonstrating the half roll used to chase the Bf109's and mock low level attacks on pretend trains/convoys----- happy days

Looking forward to the BoB

Cheers

Kelly

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 12:37 AM
kelly2 wrote:
- hi all
-
-
- Very excited about the BoB sim that is on its way.
-
- I do hope the Spitfire and Hurricane engine sound is
- correct unlike the Hurricane in FB and no
- combat/take off setting for the flaps on these
- aircraft, the Spit and the Hurri had only two
- settings fully down or fully up.
-
- I live in the UK very close to a BoB airfield( RAF
- Chuch Fenton) and from this airfield in the mid
- 1970's flew in Chipmunk training aircraft as a Air
- cadet.The pilot who took me up on these air
- experience flights was an ex Spitfire pilot. I have
- vivid memories of him demonstrating the half roll
- used to chase the Bf109's and mock low level attacks
- on pretend trains/convoys----- happy days
-
- Looking forward to the BoB
-
- Cheers

Man, I remember going to the airshows at Church Fenton... those bring back some memories!

You must be quite close to my neck of the woods (Leeds)... ain't the world a small place /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Kelly
-
-



"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:00 AM
AaronGT wrote:
-
- mikeyg007 wrote:
-- A lot of the fields over South East England were
-- deliberately obstructed to try and handicap any
-- airborne assuault, so that would be quite realistic.
-
- I have images of farmers coming out with their
- shotguns to tell Falschirmjaeger to "Get orf my
- land!!"
-
Yeah - the usual version is _RAF_ pilots being threatened or attacked with shotguns, pitchforks, etc - the story always resolves with the unfortumate victim establishing his credentials with a torrent of unmistakeably British swearing!