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View Full Version : Fumes in the pit for BoB



Haigotron
08-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Before i make a post in the wish list, i wanted to run one by the community.

I was wondering if in real life, pilot's lives were threatened by leakage of fumes from a damaged engine into the pit - glycol leakage for example...also if fumes from the engine exhausts could leak into the pit if the pit had holes in them...and if this could harm the pilot...

if so, and it was a significant health hazard in real life, i wouuld like to see such things in BoB...

...in the end you do get killed by flying the 163 upside down for a long time... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Daiichidoku
08-27-2006, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Haigotron:
Before i make a post in the wish list, i wanted to run one by the community.

I was wondering if in real life, pilot's lives were threatened by leakage of fumes from a damaged engine into the pit - glycol leakage for example...also if fumes from the engine exhausts could leak into the pit if the pit had holes in them...and if this could harm the pilot...

if so, and it was a significant health hazard in real life, i wouuld like to see such things in BoB...

...in the end you do get killed by flying the 163 upside down for a long time... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

many types in fact had fume problems, and had required pilots to run oxygen from engine start (typhoons come to mind)

np for BoB, or even FB

refried beans and dark beer for lunchhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Haigotron
08-28-2006, 08:59 AM
np for BoB, or even FB

what do you mean? will it be included in bob?

russ.nl
08-28-2006, 02:38 PM
Well I know glycol isn't dangerous but I think fuel would get you sick pretty fast in to much quantities.

LW_lcarp
08-28-2006, 02:41 PM
I want it modeled where the pilot is a little bit hungover from a night of partying the night before http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

orkan_3d
08-28-2006, 05:15 PM
Fumes aren`t allways visible, but smoke in the cockpit might be a nice immersion boost.
And a signal that something is wrong! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Divine-Wind
08-28-2006, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by orkan_3d:
Fumes aren`t allways visible, but smoke in the cockpit might be a nice immersion boost.
And a signal that something is wrong! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Spontaneously combusting has always been a good indicator for me.

sukebeboy
08-28-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
I want it modeled where the pilot is a little bit hungover from a night of partying the night before http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That's easily done outside the actual sim itself. In my case, the real trick is flying while not hungover or still half cut.

Bearcat99
08-28-2006, 07:06 PM
Well if it were a WWI sim then the castor oil effect would be interesting to model.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2006, 07:13 PM
BC are you talking about the same effect that a BigMac has on alot of people and me most of all?

LEBillfish
08-28-2006, 08:17 PM
If you look at many types of planes, quite often the cutaways showing clearly where lines, wires and so on were routed through some rather large access holes into the engine area. In kind guns often mounted in the fusalage had huge openings to their area's. Rubber grommets, sealing caulk and the like were luxuries on the planes I've looked at. The concept make it easy to service and if it's rubbing enlarge the hole clearly seen. In kind, heat for high altitude often came simply from engine heat flowing back....

Granted, though radial engines probably were better, inline were most likely terrible....The quality & degree of venting of the engine compartment naturally would determine the end effect, yet my guess would be that many WWII fighters cockpits were possibly filled with various odors and fumes. In design, their should be none, fuel goes in burns then exits, oil stays contained....Yet seals were not that great and I'd "guess" every kind of fluid or gas seeped to whatever degree.......A hit to the engine or probably worse still lines running to it and things could quickly get messy.

Lastly, why would you have fire in a cockpit otherwise?.....

Personally I believe "fume effects" would be difficult to model and would no doubt have people griping it was unfair.....Though I would like to see better cockpit fire and smoke....Our blackout effect would work well for smoke, yet you would also have to be reasonable and give the player a way to vent it as real planes had. Fire simple as well.

As to BoB planes, many being inline and very early types....I'd "guess" fumes smoke and such would have been a real issue.........Later versions probably trying to address it.

All just a guess though.

NonWonderDog
08-28-2006, 09:24 PM
How 'bout we just assume our virtual pilot wears his oxygen mask and forget about it?

Haigotron
08-28-2006, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
How 'bout we just assume our virtual pilot wears his oxygen mask and forget about it?

How about we turn on the autopilot and not fly the plane anymore?

(bends over and dies, and lies in fetal position)

Ernst_Rohr
08-28-2006, 11:13 PM
According to a couple of the WW2 pilots I interviewed several years ago, fumes were less of an issue than heat.

All of them (except the 38 pilot) said that heat was a real issue in the pit. In Europe it wasnt as bad, once you got to altitude, but in the pacific, it was murder. The 38 pilot only mentioned that the cockpit was not exactly comfortable for tall pilots (like him) and he had a pretty humorous story about losing his relief tube and damn near colliding with his flight leader trying to recover it.

(For that matter, Saburo Sakai talked about flying missions in the south pacific later in the war while suffering from dysentery. You want to model unpleasant cockpit smells, consider that one! ) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

According to one of the Navy pilots, the reason you always see the shots of them flying around with the pits open, was it was fiercely hot in the south pacific, and 180mph AC was the only way to beat it.

Interestingly enough, the guy that mentioned fumes was the B-24 pilot I interviewed. He said that wing flexing in flight would crack fuel leads into the tanks, causing trickles of avgas to run into the wings, then travel down to the body of the plane. Not any real fluid, but in the older 24's, you could smell if the wings were due for maintainence. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
08-28-2006, 11:53 PM
I just read a story about a pilot trying a Spifire for the first time. Something was wrong with the exhaust duct, and the cockpit fumes nearly made him faint, despite an open hood.

Treetop64
08-28-2006, 11:58 PM
I'm already simulating fumes in the cockpit with 4.05m, though it's not really a simulation, per se, as much as it's the result of the gastro-intestinal side-effects from eating four bowls of bran cereal earlier...

BiscuitKnight
08-29-2006, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Haigotron:
How about we turn on the autopilot and not fly the plane anymore?

(bends over and dies, and lies in fetal position)

While we're at it, can we model the chafing the oyxgen mask would have on our face, and can we have a mini game to wear arse groves into the seats, and can we simulate cramps and boredom?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Aaron_GT
08-29-2006, 02:14 AM
There can also be an effect from fuselage mounted guns. One of the reasons why the RAF rejected the 37mm cannon armed version of the P39 and opted for the 20mm cannon was due to build up of carbon monoxide in the cabin when firing the 37mm gun on the trials machine it received.

Having to use oxygen increases the chances of the pilot becoming tired in combat, and it would be interesting to see it modelled. Maybe there should be an option, like in that online Microsoft sim (the name escapes me) in which you could choose when to use the oxygen mask, with negative effects above a certain altitude if you did not.

Tully__
08-29-2006, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
...and can we simulate...boredom?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
No need to simulate that. Just make missions in FMB where it's loooong flight with no enemy intercepts and a ridiculously easy target (anyone for a recon mission) then another loooong flight home http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

flakwagen
08-29-2006, 06:34 AM
I do wonder why the oxygen system isn't modeled. It would be a simple toggle switch, like landing lights. But it wouldn't require any new graphics- perhaps the symbolic sound of whooshing air when it is toggled or damaged, if at all. Get your oxygen knocked out above X altitude and suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation. Neat, eh?

Flak

Haigotron
08-29-2006, 09:31 AM
i agree with flakwagen, its only a suggestion not a whine, its for the best