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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 11:59 AM
From http://oldsite.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=004876;p=2


Oleg says:

.... Becasue the whinners of "realistic" will again say something and we are tired of that. Very tired.

So now and later we select the best known for western and Japanese aircraft performance data and middle calculation of Soviet. Thats all.



All you whinners should take a rest!!

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 11:59 AM
From http://oldsite.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=004876;p=2


Oleg says:

.... Becasue the whinners of "realistic" will again say something and we are tired of that. Very tired.

So now and later we select the best known for western and Japanese aircraft performance data and middle calculation of Soviet. Thats all.



All you whinners should take a rest!!

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:50 PM
Not good marketing tactics to call your customers whiners.. I just think most of the whining has been true, and Im glad most of the issues have been fixxed in the patches.. if there had not been this massive whining, for example concerning FW-190 perfomance, we would still fly with cramped FW-190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for Oleg for responding on that post btw http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ..


Message Edited on 10/31/0301:54PM by Vipez-

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:56 PM
Isn't this whinning? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So... Soviet FM's will be based on the average values of different sources, while Allied and Jap planes will be based on the best numbers? Hm, sad.

cheers/slush

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Tully__
10-31-2003, 12:59 PM
Whining is complaining about aircraft performance based on your fiction reading and movie viewing with no research and testing. Let's face it, there's been plenty of that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Salut
Tully


Message Edited on 10/31/0309:59PM by Tully__

Zayets
10-31-2003, 01:03 PM
Just passing by to see how you're all doing.
carry on.

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:11 PM
If Oleg wasn't so genuinely interested in whether ppl actually enjoyed this software, the wining wouldn't bother him at all.



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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:14 PM
Whining is soooo off topic.

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:27 PM
Oleg has been responding to posts in the ready room - it's a joy to see.

People should be respectful in dealing with each other.



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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:35 PM
I was involved in business as a sales manager for many years. We had plenty of "Whiners" and we took their views into consideration. Any company {Capitalist that is} that doesn't listen to it's 'Whiners" is going to start suffering a business loss.
Oleg listens. It's the driving force behind what he does. So if I whine and say I won't buy this or that ,or am not satisfied with this or that, He is certainly going to listen. We used to listen to "Whiners" until we were sick, mad
, disgusted and ready to put some of them to the torture for holding our feet to the fire. Obviously, some of them had conflicting needs. We worked it out as best we could and the company grew. Oleg is listening too, and He will act on it if He can.
Thank you Whiners, for pushing for better and more realistic games. I get the impression that we have some juveniles that don't understand the way business works. I guess Oleg is just learning. Probably was taught someting different in his younger years, but learn he will. He has great talent, and He is going to capitalize on it.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:39 PM
prozac70 wrote:
- I was involved in business as a sales manager for
- many years. We had plenty of "Whiners" and we took
- their views into consideration. Any company
- {Capitalist that is} that doesn't listen to it's
- 'Whiners" is going to start suffering a business
- loss.
- Oleg listens. It's the driving force behind what he
- does. So if I whine and say I won't buy this or that
- ,or am not satisfied with this or that, He is
- certainly going to listen. We used to listen to
- "Whiners" until we were sick, mad
- , disgusted and ready to put some of them to the
- torture for holding our feet to the fire. Obviously,
- some of them had conflicting needs. We worked it out
- as best we could and the company grew. Oleg is
- listening too, and He will act on it if He can.
- Thank you Whiners, for pushing for better and more
- realistic games. I get the impression that we have
- some juveniles that don't understand the way
- business works. I guess Oleg is just learning.
- Probably was taught someting different in his
- younger years, but learn he will. He has great
- talent, and He is going to capitalize on it.
-

I hereby nominate this for "Patronizing Post of the Year - 2003". Best of luck. I'll keep my fingers x-ed for you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cheers/slush

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:49 PM
Here lately, within the past 3 or 4 weeks, this forum has done a complete turn around. I haven't seen nearly as much whining, or even complaining as there were before. I think that should say something about the folks that post here. Seems we all finally understand there are certain ways to voice "concerns" that dosen't bring this community down, or put it, and the members here, in a bad light. I hope I'm not the only one that sees this. I hope Oleg sees this also. The fact that he took the time to post here yesterday should be an answer to that question. S!

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:55 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif sales manager calls Oleg a juvenile::
-- I get the impression that we have some juveniles that
-- don't understand the way business works. I guess Oleg is
-- just learning. Probably was taught someting different in
-- his younger years, but learn he will.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:56 PM
I will be happy, when the P-51 will be flyable, because lots of people, who say you are a whiner, will become a whiner too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Russian planes will turn better than allied planes. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
What will we have?
Gunwhiner, Speedwhiner, Turnwhiner, Viewwhiner and so on.
Just think about it, before you say, you are a whiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
No flame, but we will see.


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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:05 PM
I think Oleg should make a program that lets the customers set planes to how they think they fly (which is not usually right) so then the customers can complain at themselves when the screw it up and not post their crap back here!

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Hawgdog
10-31-2003, 02:10 PM
m_preddy wrote:
- I think Oleg should make a program that lets the
- customers set planes to how they think they fly
- (which is not usually right) so then the customers
- can complain at themselves when the screw it up and
- not post their crap back here!


As usual, right on the money LOL

Just add a ctrl+rfm so you could return to realistic flight modeling if you adjusted too far!

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:26 PM
Lex- Looking at my post, I can see how you might have thought I called Oleg a juvenile.I should have started a new paragraph.I did not mean that Oleg was a juvenile at all. However, I did mean that he is in a Learning process, or at least he had better be if he wants continued success. Also, It was not my intent to write a Patronizing letter. MY aplogies if it was taken that way. If you don't have a juvenile attitude, I don't see how my post was patronizing. However, I apologise for it, where apologies are needed

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:34 PM
I don't know about planes' real perform characteristics but my opinion about the "whining issue" is the following and I believe it is fair.

There are the following types of whiners:
a) Nationalists. Those who want their nations planes to be the best. This is addressed to Germans, Russians, British and Americans but soon Japanese will be added to this.
b) Those who whine about everything for no reason. These are the guys whom we usually meet in our lifes and who whine about anything. These guys though they are not obliged to fly a certain plane on the DF servers they join, they always pick the one with disadvantages (or the one that they don't know how to fly it) and then they whine. Their problem would be solved if they learned how to fly these planes better and if they chose the best plane for each occasion (for example, these are the guys who choose D9 for low alt DF when they can choose Hurries or Yaks...).
c) The guys who participate in online wars (like me) and I respect their whinning (in fact sometimes I whine too). These online wars can be flown with certain planes and with certain scenarios. At these cases people have to whine but I'm not sure that Oleg is the one to blame but rather those who make these online wars. For example, since we all know how difficult it is to harm a Lagg with F2's guns then they should never have these planes as opponents. Or, since it is a complete ridiculous thing to intercept HE111 at 5000m with I16's and escorts of BF's they should not create such missions and etc. Am I wrong?

Concluding I want to point out that whining should only be made to those who are responsible to and it's not the problem of our lifes to have the exact real life performance on each plane rather than having balanced setups.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:47 PM
You is wrong ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:55 PM
Agree with him. I'm tired too...

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:08 PM
Whining is fine with me.

Everyone can't articulate their meaning without some feelings /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I think Oleg is pretty accustomed to it. I'm amazed at all the threads and postings that keep coming up ragging on the whiners. The ragging on the whiners is just as lousy reading as the whining...my opinion of course /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I think these forums are about chit-chat and sharing, whether it's whining or an long-winded document. I have spells when I don't do IL2-FB for weeks, but I scroll the boards several times daily. I can't tell you how many times I've LEARNED SOMETHING from a whiner or some other ner-do-well.

Be Happy

------------------ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:13 PM
people have to speak up. There is a right and wrong way of course, but since whiners all seem to be categorized into one lump, I say to the whiners, Well Done!
CFS1 was a pretty good sim for it's day. CFS2 rode it's coattails to gain good sales. CFS2 made it's niche and still has a lot of followers. CFS3 has fell on it's face. Buyers stayed away after reading the comments on the CFS2 boards. The same thing coould happen to Oleg if he does not have input. "Whiners" or no.
Microsoft is just too big to care. Flight sims are such a fraction of their business that just throwing them out there seems to be good enough.
From what I can gather, Olegs main scource of income is developing these sims. Therefore, He cares and he is going to listen to the 'Whiners" even if it gives him ulcers.
I'm talking about Oleg, not Ubi.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:18 PM
Slush69 wrote:
- So... Soviet FM's will be based on the average
- values of different sources, while Allied and Jap
- planes will be based on the best numbers? Hm, sad.

Well not exactly. I think Oleg has a pretty good feel for what is "correct" data from the Soviet sources (they aren't bound to be all right either) and he's using the perhaps slightly inflated numbers from Allied and Japanese planes. Probably in both cases, the performance will be what is expected by all sides so hopefully it will work out.

He makes a good point. There were instances where aircraft would arrive at the front and they would not perform upto the speeds that were listed or the times that were listed by manufacture.

We all know from our computers that no two systems perform exactly the same. Two identical computers do things differently, crash at different times with different frequencies...heck, one may not even turn on the first time you put it together. Take that to a whole other level with the airplane and understand that we're bound to find some planes that were lemons, or entire batches that were lemons while others performed better than the stated specs.

Its an imperfect science and people are expecting perfection - whatever that is.

If the P-51 performs like I think it should, I will adapt my tactics to learn how to make it an effective killing machine.

As it stands right now, I feel I am absolutely deadly with the Bf 109 K-4 and all versions of the G-6 (which are supposedly not good) as well as the FW190 (from A-5 to D-9). All of those are perfectly capable fighting machines...I get annoyed that P39's follow me everywhere and La's stick on my tail like glue but even if they aren't performing as expected, as long as they aren't invulernable, I will shoot them down.

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:22 PM
I agree with Zen_fighter. Some people want their favorite planes to be the best fighters in the game. So, I suggest one solution. Oleg should make several types of FB for them. In each type, specific national fighters have the best speed, acceleration, climb rate, roll rate, dive speed, duration, armament, etc...and, the other national ones have the worst ability. Then, customers can choose one out of several versions of FB, and buy it. They will be satisfied with their favorite planes, and Ubi & Maddox team will be happy with more incomes and more customers' satistfaction. How about that idea? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As you know, just a joke./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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T_O_A_D
10-31-2003, 03:24 PM
Well I for one really appreciate all Olegs and team have done for realistic. Sad to say I bet its been a major pain in the Arse for them.I would like for it to continue.In saying that though, I also appreciate the fact that in the future they will make one flight model and be done with it. Now once thats done you can learn the strenght and weaknes of said aircraft in the sim world and fly it and quit worring about RLF specs just go have fun. Just as long as they all have a different FM it will be swell with me. We can add realism though cocpit,no tags and so on.

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 04:01 PM
"...and middle calculation of Soviet.."

- it means LaGGs, Yaks and Las should overheat even less than now?



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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 04:19 PM
I would be tired myself listening to it, but then again there are reasons for it and even if someones correct and shows proof they are immediatly called whiner.

I think oleg is trying his best to improve FB and keep making money while doing it.

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 04:32 PM
prozac70 wrote:
- Lex- Looking at my post, I can see how you might
- have thought I called Oleg a juvenile.I should have
- started a new paragraph.I did not mean that Oleg was
- a juvenile at all. However, I did mean that he is in
- a Learning process, or at least he had better be if
- he wants continued success. Also, It was not my
- intent to write a Patronizing letter. MY aplogies if
- it was taken that way. If you don't have a juvenile
- attitude, I don't see how my post was patronizing.
- However, I apologise for it, where apologies are
- needed
-
-

Was your business experience as successful as Oleg's. I don't think so. Otherwise you would still work as a sales manager. It's better to go and study yourself than telling anybody else to do so.

Anyway, people! If you are so smart and understand business and customers so well, why don't you start consulting company. You can make big money teaching businessmen like Oleg how to do business.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 04:44 PM
Vipez- wrote
"Not good marketing tactics to call your customers whiners"

Well what he wrote was hardly a marketing statement was it now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I think Mr. Maddox would be happy to entertain discussion over any flight model of any airplane in Il-2/FB IF there was a quanitative line of reasoning to back it up, from a credible source of data, which considered the other data that was available to him & his team.

There has been a huge volume of qualitative whining about various airplanes (from both sides of the fence, i.e. too good/too bad) which is hardly going to cut it with a well reasearched group of developers working on data based models is it? Simply saying "XXXXX has just way to fast climb, it's simply ridiculous!" is no good.

Fair enough, qualitative arguements have lead to people putting forward good quanitative reasons to back up that point of view (and has resulted in change in some cases- for example P-47 roll rate).

Discussion is always a good thing, but it is easy to see why Oleg gets tired of "whiners". Some of the posting is directly offensive towards him, so it is very clear to see why he no patenice for it.


Just a few points to bear in mind /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 04:55 PM
georgeo76 wrote:
- If Oleg wasn't so genuinely interested in whether
- ppl actually enjoyed this software, the wining
- wouldn't bother him at all.

Very good point!

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 05:38 PM
Maxxim 26- What forum are you on. At no point did I try to give Oleg any advice. I was explaining how businessmen deal with these issues and why Oleg will continue to listen to whiners.
And no, My business was not as successful as Olegs. I did pretty well in my field and retired at 60. I did OK in a small way I guess.
Why did you say such things?

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 07:24 PM
I didn't mean to insult you. I wanted to point out that the tone of your message was not appropriate hear.

Oleg and Maddox Games are just small company developers and marketing and promotion of the game is done by Ubi Soft - big software publisher with huge experience. Oleg has no need to learn how to sell his games.

I think that IL2 community had unique opportunity to communicate directly with developers of this game. Not with a customer support representative, usually young girl with a nice voce who has no idea what computer and video game is. This people have spent a huge amount of time studding the subject and they have much more reliable and complete information than average whiner.

As a result of abusing posting of the whiners we have no opportunity to talk to developers of the game any more.

On my opinion developers listen to the customers and respond on legitimate complains. Good example is the Dedicated Server.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:01 AM
Maxim26- I'm afraid you and I are still not on the same page. I was attempting to explain why Oleg will continue to listen to whiners. Oleg and his staff are the ones that make the game what it is.Therefore, they want to make the game as good as possible so they can put more money in their pocket when Ubi makes more sales. Ubi packages,promotes and sells the finished product. Oleg is the one that's going to listen and attempt to make his product better.
You said that my post was not apprpriate here. I think it is appropriate for the thread.
Also, you said you didn't intend to insult me. Then why did you? Re-read your post, then tell me you didn't directly insult me. I flamed nobody, said nothing against anyone, and yet you jumped all over me. I guess I just don't understand your type of behavior. Seems to be a lot of it these days.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:17 AM
Oleg also takes a crap too, just like me and you.

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:28 AM
Oleg should try and look at the fact that most of the people in here don't whine. Most seem to think the FM
and DM and so on, are all close to perfect. He's getting
upset over a small ( but vociferous ) minority. Personally,
if I were in his shoes, I would not be be all that upset.
Stuff like this comes with the territory and one should expect things like this upon venturing into the production of combat flight sims. To ask a frank question, what exactly did he expect?? This type of bickering from malcontents has always been a part of military flight sims. And of course, always will. It should be taken in stride and not personally.


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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:39 AM
my way of looking at it is this if u anit happy with a part in the game and know and can prove that it was the way you say it then u can put this info 2 oleg and as the resonable man he is he will listen. but if its ooh my plane not as fast as cfs2 or i cant kill anything in this plane the guns are far 2 weak and so on thn he can do what he likes 2 them. keep up the good work oleg cant wait for the new addon and the payware one and if its got what i want in it i will buy and not moan the only thing i ever wined about were the p47 guages not working but it anit gonna ruin my life or stop me getting and sleep

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:52 AM
No arguement there. Oleg can do anything He decides to do, with my blessing. I think that for business reasons He will continue to listen to whiners. If He doesn't, thats fine with me. He likes to make money. Therefore, he will listen to whiners.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 02:38 AM
A lot of people don't seem to get it.

We paid Oleg money to make a game, not to chat with us about his flight sim. He used to visit here because he enjoyed it. If a small but vocal group of people made this an unpleasent place to be, why should he continue to stay? It is his choice.

I'm sure UBI and 1C have plenty of marketing people, or worse yet, sales managers (the vermin of the business world) to deal with the public.

And one point to all those patronizing Tupperware sales managers out there who would lecture on free-market-capitalism, I believe 1C is doing just fine business wise.

Beergator

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:51 AM
I'm tired of whiners too......

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:59 AM
Never insult the folks that hand over the cold hard cash for a box with two CD's worth about .75 cents with a load of binary code. I love both IL-2 and FB....but I have also bought a lot of rubbish. I have no respect for bad customer service....I am always right...I am the customer.

So please tell me I am beautiful and that you will support and patch your mistakes. That is all it takes.

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 04:24 AM
I like wine, its goooood.

Oh wait, you said whiners. No, I dont think they make wine.


So, the morale of the story is....................................... Dolemite's drunk.

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 08:55 AM
How much has all the whinning improved the game. It seems clear to me that Oleg make an attempt to alter the FM according to the "whinners" of one plane while trying not to upset the "whinners" of another plane. My question is this, Has the game improved?

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:03 AM
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/011103-CheeseandCrackers.jpg


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"Any information that we receive concerning the real world is carefully controlled"

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:27 AM
The game has improved, but I doubt it was due to whining. The big fixes in 1.1 were going to come regardless of how many people said 1.0 was wrong. Fundamental things like energy bleed and retention were changed across -all- planes. Hardly anyone was whining about the campaign compared to all the FM posts, but that got fixed too.

P47 roll rate being changed was not a result of all the whining about it, but rather about 2 posts of well researched test data. That's not whining, that's being helpful.

If you think "the customer is always right", I invite you to work in retail for six months and see if you can ever use that phrase again. The customer is rarely right about things they don't understand. I haven't flown the planes, I don't know how exactly they should fly, so I keep my mouth shut about it.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:34 AM
I had a feeling this day would come. You can only take so much whining before you snap. Oleg is very nice and loves aircraft. He loves his game and for people to CONSTANTLY say "Hay Oleg, your years of research and dedication is WRONG." with no backing what so ever tends to grind on you. When was the last time he participated in a debate in the ORR? LAst time he got JUMPED by a bunch of FW-190 Luftwhiners and gave up on it all.

Gib

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:55 AM
Call them what you want Gib but that was a very lame excuse put forward when the pilot view is so clearly wrong in the Fw190.


Gibbage1 wrote:
-
- LAst time he got JUMPED by a bunch of FW-190
- Luftwhiners and gave up on it all.
-


http://www.thundercycle.com/photos/dropdead2.gif



"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 10:01 AM
We must be able to distinguish between whining and constructive criticism. Some times there may be some
substance to what a poster is saying. However Pro/Con flame
wars do nothing for the community. The point is to be civil in anycase.

S!

DerMadAdler

Message Edited on 11/01/0309:07AM by DerMadAdler1

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 10:20 AM
I think hte main problem is that many years ago IL2 has been announced as the most realistic Sim ever, where planes are modelled as reallistic as it could be. I think that was a big mistake.

DEUTSCHLAND ... ein Land in dem es keine Revolution geben kann, weil man dazu den Rasen betreten müßte. (Josef Stalin)

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 11:04 AM
prozac70 wrote:
- I was involved in business as a sales manager for
- many years. We had plenty of "Whiners" and we took
- their views into consideration. Any company
- {Capitalist that is} that doesn't listen to it's
- 'Whiners" is going to start suffering a business
- loss.
- Oleg listens. It's the driving force behind what he
- does. So if I whine and say I won't buy this or that
- ,or am not satisfied with this or that, He is
- certainly going to listen. We used to listen to
- "Whiners" until we were sick, mad
- , disgusted and ready to put some of them to the
- torture for holding our feet to the fire. Obviously,
- some of them had conflicting needs. We worked it out
- as best we could and the company grew. Oleg is
- listening too, and He will act on it if He can.
- Thank you Whiners, for pushing for better and more
- realistic games. I get the impression that we have
- some juveniles that don't understand the way
- business works. I guess Oleg is just learning.
- Probably was taught someting different in his
- younger years, but learn he will. He has great
- talent, and He is going to capitalize on it.

I agree with you. When companies stop listening to what their customers have to say these companies will vanish. There's a difference between constructive criticism and whining. Some times it's hard to tell but as you infer, even a whiner may have it right once in a while.

GR142-Pipper

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 11:51 AM
I've already said it many times, "whining" is extremely important for a company.

In fact, most companies pay a lot of dollars simply to hear "whining". Ok, let's say you have to collect customers datas in the streets like what happens in a two-weeks period of "whining" on an Ubi forum, for instance after a patch; I would say it could cost 15 to 20'000 dollars. In fact, the biggest whiners here should even be paid by Ubi /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Because if a company doesn't hear his whiners, believe me, another company will very fast do this job.

Because satisfied customers are worthless for a product. The boss of Cisco Systems always says that "you must be a real parano¯d to survive in this business." It's obvious, if you listen only to satisfied customers, you will probably get a false feeling of security, like with pink shades. And during this time, your concurrents do look at your whiners with the greatest attention.

I don't know how this works in the sim business, but if I had to develop a sim, I would look with the greatest attention at the whining against the other products and modify my product to meet some of these whining requests, but of course only the ones based on documents not the ones base on a childish attitude.

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:39 PM
So True CHDT. A lot of companies depend on continued sales at frequent intervals for suvival. As a sales Manager (One of the Vermin of the world according to one poster},for one of these companies, We learned early on that the customer who thought you were doing them a great job, and would never let the competition in the door, could be safely depended on and needed no further efforts to keep them in the fold.
The Whiners were the ones we were worried about. The ones who might not continue to buy recieved our consideration. When a whiner quit and went to another company, we all went full out to try to get him back in the fold.
We made many changes in delivery and ordering systems.
,as well as pricing and availability of goods to get people safely back in the fold. Most of the time it worked.
When the system improved for the whiner, it improved for everyone.
I think a lot of people on this thread are not reading the entire post before formulating an answer. The thread is "Oleg is tired of whiners". What some of us have been saying is that he will listen, tired or not. We are not giving UBI and their team advice. We are saying that whiners will continue to be heard. The statement that "Oleg is great" will help his ego and get you a pat on the head, but that's all. He need to do nothing else to keep you in the fold. He loves you for your kind words, but he does not need to modify a sim for you. He has your sales locked up.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 01:26 PM
The business men and sales managers, (vermin of the world} are speaking from experiance and making good sense. Some of you seem to be indulging in "Magical Thinking" as far as Oleg is concerned. It was originally stated that Oleg is tired of whiners. The answer was put forth by the business people that he might be tired 'but would continue to listen. The answers to them were all over the place, most assuming that the businessmen were trying to tell Ubi how to run their sales department. Not true. I have read every single post all the way through and do not see how you arrived at this. Some of you people are skipping too much of the posts to be able to form an intelligent answer.I think if all of us would read the entire post before answering 'it would help the forum a lot.



"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

Tully__
11-01-2003, 02:03 PM
I'm going to lock this as the quote is taken out of context and it's apparent that many are not reading the source. If you want to comment further, please go and do it in the original thread at SimHQ (link in the first post on page 1).

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Salut
Tully


Message Edited on 11/01/0311:05PM by Tully__