PDA

View Full Version : Corsairs,Wildcats and Hellcats after patch!



DIRTY-MAC
11-19-2004, 05:14 AM
Have they chaged anything?

DIRTY-MAC
11-19-2004, 05:14 AM
Have they chaged anything?

ElAurens
11-19-2004, 05:32 AM
Just wait, I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly with their list of complaints...

Be sure.

Maple_Tiger
11-19-2004, 05:37 AM
I noticed one of the FU4's now have four 20mm cannon. Whats the differance between the F4U and the Corrsair? They both look same.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2004, 06:29 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Hello,
The planes have changed after the patch! have now tried only the F4U-1C (the only one with gour 20mm cannons) and it feels very diferent, this plane as now stalls and spins(without warnings). It feels more realistic.
Once again thanks to Oleg and coworkers for this great game and the patches.

Sensei

DIRTY-MAC
11-19-2004, 06:46 AM
Cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BinaryFalcon
11-19-2004, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The planes have changed after the patch! have now tried only the F4U-1C (the only one with gour 20mm cannons) and it feels very diferent, this plane as now stalls and spins(without warnings). It feels more realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't noticed anything like that so far. Then again I haven't tried to do anything really stupid with it yet either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://s93008310.onlinehome.us/images/pf/corsair04.jpg

http://s93008310.onlinehome.us/images/pf/Corsair06.jpg

http://s93008310.onlinehome.us/images/pf/Corsair05.jpg

Handles nicely at low level though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Gypsy]
11-19-2004, 07:43 AM
The cockpit glass on the F6F is still really dirty... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
11-19-2004, 08:19 AM
They fixed the tail hook on the Hellcat. It hangs down now like it should, and it is also hinged so that it will articulate properly once engaged with an arresting gear. They have also given the Hellcat combat and takeoff flaps.

R_Mutt
11-19-2004, 08:26 AM
The hellcat actually overheats now.

Fliger747
11-19-2004, 08:32 AM
We all have our viewpoints. Some simmers like the challenge of an aircraft that would be almost unflyable in the real world.

My viewpoint, I am a (real) pilot and like planes that more or less replicate the way the planes (probably) flew, and at the minimum act like a plane that someone went to some effort to design as a good flying machine.

Back in the 60's I met then Rear Admiral Richard "Chick" Harmer who had been CO of the night fighter squadron on the Big E, using the F4U-2 Corsair. First US regular operational combat use of the F4U on deck. His viewpoint was that in experienced hands the F4U was a much better NIGHT FIGHTER than the F6FN due to the Corsairs greater STABILITY. This was an important attribute in a plane that was really flown mostly on instruments. Other aviators, with wide squadron experience in both the F4U and the F6F comment that the Corsair was a much better gun platform.

Sims depend on variable control setups which can be from pretty good to really bad.

I am on the road, using my laptop, but noticed a serious degredation in the lateral stability of the 'patched' F4U, one that I feel is unrealistic in it's twitchiness.

I appreciate the efforts of the design team to tweak the planes to what the folks here expect (the F4U being difficult to fly), but have ended up in my opinion (17,000+ fying hours) with something that is unpredictable and not enjoyable to 'fly'. There seems to be an undue coupling of roll directly to 'torque', where this is really more a function of response about the yaw axis up till rudder authority is 'used up'.

The AVhistory 1% Corsairs and Guy Hulin's fabulous FS9 Corsair seem (as a pilot) to be closer to the mark.

Further comments will be made by myself on this only after I get a chance to try this out 'at home' where I have a more sophisticated setup and can give a more fair evaluation.

Yoshi_Toranaga
11-19-2004, 08:41 AM
Myself i find the Corsair is much more realistic to fly,,I dont however have many problems with spins and stalls,,I do find getting off the carrier with a full payload is difficult at best lol !! A great job oleg and Crew ! salute! Domo Arigato !!

Oh almost forgot the water now is absolutly stunning !! Thank you again

geetarman
11-19-2004, 08:59 AM
Took an F4U and then a Hellcat up against a couple of ace Tony's prior to going online.

Corsair does lose a wing on hard turns as does the Hellcat. That's fine with me and seems more appropriate.

Went online with the F4U and dove down on two Zero's escorting a Val. Great fight! Used energy tactics and did not try to follow the Zeros in turns. Zero pilots were able to outmanuever me with ease (great!). Made a few half hearted attempts at a tight turn and found my plane shaking at the edge of a stall. Went back to the energy fight was eventually able to down them both. Val got away but a Hellcat got it later.

Thank you Oleg. The PF servers were beginning to be a faithful recreation of the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot the last couple of weeks!

RxMan
11-19-2004, 09:19 AM
The Corsairs were difficult to launch from carriers with heavy loads, now they are very difficult, and I mean very!

faustnik
11-19-2004, 10:16 AM
I haven't got a chance to fly the Navy planes yet, but, the Fw190 has a slightly different feel to it. It does not perform much differently but, its reaction to control inputs has changed slightly. Maybe there was some global change that we just need a few days to get used to.

BlitzPig_DDT
11-19-2004, 10:37 AM
Odd to hear someone call the Hellcat "less stable". When making the -5, Grumman borrowed a Corsair to investigate it's rolling ability. They did improve the F6F, but knew they'd never match the Corsair due to the inherent stability in the design of the F6F.

I seriously can't beleive someone suggested that it didn't overheat in 3.0. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif WTF? Do people play around in the QMB for 30 seconds and come in here spewing inane BS or something? It's the ONLY thing that can explain it, because anyone that actually used the **** thing for any length of time knows that is a bald faced lie (at best).

The stall speed in 3.0 was too high. Now, post patch, you can't take off from a static deck without flaps, irrespective of the fact that you get 30mph over the real world power on clean stall speed.

120% mix is useless now, and you can't lean out lower than 100%. Though I did see that the Ki-84 can still run 120% mix over 11,000 feet. Interesting.

It was about right overall before save for the high stall speed, poor (comparitive) vis, and the grease on the glass. Now it seems the J-Plane crowed managed to get it neutered though.

Oh yeah, what's with combat and TO flaps now?


Don't get me wrong. It'll still whoop ****. But that isn't the bloody point.

HayateAce
11-19-2004, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Have they chaged anything? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Yes Yes!!

This is very good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

We now finally have proper flying sim with these new realism United aircrafts.

Now is fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

I am so excited for our game now, play is fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


I am hunting them now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://www.blop.ru/manual/ki84/pic/ki84.jpg

mortoma
11-19-2004, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Have they chaged anything? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Yes Yes!!

This is very good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

We now finally have proper flying sim with these new realism United aircrafts.

Now is fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

I am so excited for our game now, play is fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


I am hunting them now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://www.blop.ru/manual/ki84/pic/ki84.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not surprised you're happy with less accurate US planes ( except for Corsair ) given the fact that you have the 'hyper-over-modelled' KI-84 in your sig. It's ok if your favorite side ( Japanese ) has super overmodelled planes, but it's not OK for your enemy planes ( US ) to be 'slightly-over-modelled' a tiny bit.

ZG77_Nagual
11-19-2004, 12:14 PM
I've flown the fm2, p39 (all versions), f4u (all versions - the D is too easy though - firepower), p38j and ki61 in test flights vs 8 ace opponents in n1k1s and j2ms. The Corsair seems substantially better in a mixed dogfight than it was - I had no problem against the 8 - maybe ten minutes. Before the J2ms were a real threat in the climb - now it seems much easier to stay away from them. The p39 is about the same - except changes to the armament in the d1 and d2. P38 seems to have more benign stall charachteristics. If true this is good news. The FM2 I ran up against 8 zeros instead of my usual n1k1/j2m combination. I think the effectiveness of the .50s has been increased. The fm2 is a turnfighters dreams - with not much flat out speed, but tremendous power for sustained turns and climb. Quite the beast.
The Ki61 is another wonderful japanese dogfighter - closer to the ki84 than the zero probably - i flew it against 8 hellcats.
First try post patch flight wins vs 8 were the Corsair, P38, p39. I got bored in the ki61 and fm2 because they are so easy to fly and turned a little too much. D2 rules the p39 roost.

VMF-312_530hawk
11-19-2004, 01:08 PM
The Corsair does seem more realistic. I like it, however, the more realistic patch will only make more pilots NOT dogfight in it. In other words, you guys wanted it to be "easy to stall" so it can easily be killed. This only means more guys will less likely dogfight with it. Next whine will come from the axis guys that said its not realistic. That whine being..."all Corsairs do is Boom & Zoom".

Next time be carefull what you wish for.

Gunny124
11-19-2004, 01:22 PM
Amen Hawk!

tttiger
11-19-2004, 01:29 PM
Doesn't anyone fly the Wildcat?

Since the patch (yesterday), you have to change the mixture settings constantly or you're spewing brown smoke. And the Supercharger does nothing at all. The plane still is a hoot to fly in early war and, historically, was the most maneuverable US fighter in WWII. But the CEM seems a bit whacked.

Thank you for fixing the Hellcat flaps! Being able to use combat flaps is a big boost. The new spin just adds realism, it's not hard to recover. Still no cockpit light ion the artificial horizon. I'm sure that's an oversight. I don't know if the damage model was changed but that Hellcat can take a pounding and still get you home. Great plane!

The Corsair's new stall -- dropping the left wing without warning -- is historically correct and it's not hard to recover. I do agree with one poster's comments about its stability as a gun platform. It's more of a chore to hold a firing solution now, especially on deflection shots.

The F4U-1C is now listed as a 1945 plane. I'm not sure that's correct but I can't find a good chronology on the Corsair. My memory is that it appeared at the same time as the 1D in the summer and fall of 1944.

All in all, the tweaks are an improvement. I had great fears Oleg would bow to the whiners again and dumb down the Cats and the Corsair. They are a bit harder to fly in a fight but I thought they were too easy in the first version.

Without having seen any performance tests, I can only go by anecdotes from the real pilots. I would say all three are just about right.

Nice piece of work!

S!

ttt

ttt

BlitzPig_DDT
11-19-2004, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Thank you for fixing the Hellcat flaps! Being able to use combat flaps is a big boost. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just how is that "fixing"?
"Flaps are electricly controlled and have no intermediate position" - Souce, WWII US Navy Hellcat pilot training film.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The new spin just adds realism, it's not hard to recover. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you didn't spin, you weren't trying. I seriously can't believe people truly felt that planes didn't stall or spin pre-patch.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Still no cockpit light ion the artificial horizon. I'm sure that's an oversight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like the axle grease on the windows?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't know if the damage model was changed but that Hellcat can take a pounding and still get you home. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Save for aileron damage, it always could, and should.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Great plane! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, IRL it was a great plane. It would be nice to get some of it back, and the rest that we never got as well.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All in all, the tweaks are an improvement. I had great fears Oleg would bow to the whiners again and dumb down the Cats and the Corsair. They are a bit harder to fly in a fight but I thought they were too easy in the first version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They weren't. You concept of what they were and how they should be is incorrect. Well....at least for the F6F.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Without having seen any performance tests, I can only go by anecdotes from the real pilots. I would say all three are just about right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look for and read accounts from Corky Meyer.

jasonburn
11-19-2004, 01:45 PM
The AVhistory 1% Corsairs and Guy Hulin's fabulous FS9 Corsair seem (as a pilot) to be closer to the mark.

Hi Flieger747,

have you every flown the 1% (CFS2) Birdcage Corsair? I has it on my HDD and IMO this Bird is as much harder to fly as the PF Corsairs.

I cant understand why you expect that a 2000 HP WW2 Bird should be easy and relax to fly. Espaicaly the Corsair has a bad name as a widowmaker and ensignkiller - from pilots whom flown this bird! Why? Without any reason???
I belive not.

regards
jason

DIRTY-MAC
11-19-2004, 01:56 PM
We are talking about how they perform in the latest PF patch.
NOT in how "this is how I think it should be" terms.
Please people dont start a flame war.

tttiger
11-19-2004, 01:57 PM
DDT,

I watched the training film at Zeno's and you are absolutely correct.The flaps were either up or down. Seems they had it right the first time.

I stand corrected. They fixed something that wasn't broken.

I didn't say it wouldn't spin in the original version but you really had to yank hard and fast on the stick to make it happen. It's more subtle now and that's good.

I'm just giving first impressions. No one is claiming there is any science involved here.

DDT, I suggest you "lose the attitude" in your posts. I'm glad to discuss anything with anyone but you feel some need to verbally bludgeon everyone you address. You sound like Stiglr. In a constant state of anger. Wait...maybe you are Stiglr.

Lighten up, dude.

Aloha,

ttt

DIRTY-MAC
11-19-2004, 02:03 PM
thank you tttiger for not taking the bait.
lets keep this mature OK

Gunny124
11-19-2004, 02:09 PM
The cannon armed F4U was introduced in August 1943, and featured four M2 20 millimeter cannon in place of the six 12.7 millimeter Brownings. The cannons had 120 rounds each. The F4U-1C was otherwise much like the F4U-1A. It had a single-piece canopy, though it is possible the same canopy was fitted to later production F4U-1As. The F4U-1C's four cannon proved particularly useful in the ground-attack role. The F4U-1C went into service in the spring of 1945, and 200 were built by Vought.

The F4U-4C was a 1945 aircraft.

BlitzPig_DDT
11-19-2004, 02:32 PM
tttiger

You call it attitude, I call it being blunt. Trust me, that isn't attitude. lol If I wanted to give you some, you'd know it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, being blunt comes from the incessant cry to wreck everything that is either US or LW. And the fact that it tends to happen. And the fact that each of those get the "thousand wounds" treatment. It's a bit exasperating at times.

Either way, saying it's decreased envelope adds realism isn't really true, and certainly too broad a statement to make. And...if you make it based on your impression, then your impression can't be correct. Simple logic dude, not attitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif As I said, dig for some stuff from Corky Meyer. If anyone knew Grummans, it was him.

No hard feelings. http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/beerchug.gif

Equilizer
11-19-2004, 02:38 PM
So, anyone got any data to back up their claims of the Hellcat or Corsair being neutered?

Fliger747
11-19-2004, 04:39 PM
Indeed the 1% birdcage is 'fun' to fly, and usually needs a little slip to landing for adequate visibility of the deck at the cut.

It's not a matter of 'harder' or easier, it's a matter of handling charcteristics. In many ways the flight model used in various 1% planes is 'harder', but is more 'plane like'.

Not to belabor the point, but been flying real airplanes for over 30 years, everything from supercubs on gravel bars and glaciers to the 747-400. I work (as a pilot) with real life test pilots and present generation Naval Aviators. Along the way I've aquired some pretty good ideas about what planes do and don't do, and have personally met many WWII flying vets (my dad was one). Many of the guys that I fly with have years and years of experience running the R2800.

Flight models aren't easy for the sim designers to do, progress is being made, a good thing. I think they will get there, eventually.

PF is a good product, and kudos are in order as the sharp corners get knocked off.

For a little more information on basic aerodynamics (a starting place even for real pilots), try H.H. Hurd, "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators".

tttiger
11-19-2004, 10:24 PM
No offense taken, DDT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For what it's worth, I fly only US or British planes. I wasn't bashing the Hellcat. It's my favorite USN fighter and, like the Jug, the plane that won the war in the middle years.

As I tell my British squaddies: Think of the Hellcat as an ugly Spitfire. Its specs are very close to the Mark IX.

Blunt is good. I just objected to you picking apart every other sentence I wrote. If you had stuck to the flaps issue, you would have no grumbles here.

I did a search for Corky Meyer. Grumman test pilot for the Hellcat. Worked for Grumman for 32 years. I would guess he knows the airplane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Thanks for the tip!

S!

ttt

Hunde_3.JG51
11-19-2004, 10:31 PM
Hawk, I wanted the Corsair to stall easier because I wanted to fly it without guilt, not because I wanted to shoot it down. I am used to FW-190 so Corsair fits me just fine.

Aaron_GT
11-20-2004, 02:10 AM
Maple:
The planes labelled 'Corsair' are the Fleet Air Arm versions, which are similar to, but may not correspond exactly with the USN/USMC F4U versions.