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View Full Version : Bf109G-10 Gunnery...is it just me?



flieger701
03-09-2006, 01:35 PM
Hi all,

Just a question (and venting a little too!) about gunnery with the Bf109-G10 version (standard loadout). I'm using IL2/FB/PF merged.

I'm in an offline campaign on the eastern front with Stab JG51 (lastest DGEN verions). I started out at the beginning of the Russian invasion. I have flown all the prevous marks of the 109, along with the Fw190-A4/A5. In those models, I had no problem (relatively speaking) hitting the targets, but with the Bf109-G10 I can't hit squat! The only way I can hit my opponent is to almost crawl into the cockpit with him (no exaggeration) before firing. I've tried aiming slightly high, low etc...but no luck.

Anyone have any pointers to improve my chances of hitting something besides empty air? I have my guns convergence set at 300 metres, and never open fire at ranges beyond that...usually much shorter ranges.

Regards,
Scott

Waldo.Pepper
03-09-2006, 02:11 PM
crawl into the cockpit
You're doing just fine.

OldMan____
03-09-2006, 02:29 PM
If you are new to this game do not e surprised. Its far easier to hit something that you think is under your aim with a FW than a 109 , that´s because of FW arrangment of weapons that cover a much bigger space. So its easier to hit far away with it. With 109 you usually have to come closer sicne you have only 1 significative gun. But when you get close you may do very precise shots.

dravisar
03-09-2006, 02:31 PM
I love the BF110. The front of that thing is a shotgun...the 4 7.92s take about an hour of saturation firing into your target to down it, but its sooo much fun. The 20mm arent hard to hit with, especially if you are used to the single cowling gun on the 109G6. Not sure why your having problems, just keep flying it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My problem with the plane, its a death trap. AAA homes in on my face in that thing.

HuninMunin
03-09-2006, 02:43 PM
The cause may be that you are used to the MG151/20
2cm machine-cannon in the earlier 109s.
The G10 is the first of the series that carrys the 3cm MK108.
It has devastating power compared to the 2cm, but is unlikely more difficult to aim with.
So it is allright that you have to go much closer to get a good sollution on your target.

I would recommend to not open fire beyond 150-200 meters. If you want to be shure to kill, and save ammo (wich is crucial with the 108) you might as well shoot within 100 meters and closer.

I have set my convergence to 200 meters in all 109s, just because the ark of the bullets is not as flat as with higher values.
Others say the opposite, but for me this "more curved arch" works better in high-g deflection shooting.

Hope I could help.

georgeo76
03-09-2006, 03:01 PM
The recoil of the mk108 pushes the nose up, aim slightly low for a zero deflection shot.

VW-IceFire
03-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by flieger701:
Hi all,

Just a question (and venting a little too!) about gunnery with the Bf109-G10 version (standard loadout). I'm using IL2/FB/PF merged.

I'm in an offline campaign on the eastern front with Stab JG51 (lastest DGEN verions). I started out at the beginning of the Russian invasion. I have flown all the prevous marks of the 109, along with the Fw190-A4/A5. In those models, I had no problem (relatively speaking) hitting the targets, but with the Bf109-G10 I can't hit squat! The only way I can hit my opponent is to almost crawl into the cockpit with him (no exaggeration) before firing. I've tried aiming slightly high, low etc...but no luck.

Anyone have any pointers to improve my chances of hitting something besides empty air? I have my guns convergence set at 300 metres, and never open fire at ranges beyond that...usually much shorter ranges.

Regards,
Scott
Which version did you come from before? The G-10, G-14, and K-4 in this game come standard with a MK108 nose cannon. This is a 30mm high explosive, low velocity cannon designed to bring down heavy bombers. Against fighters its more difficult to hit although the results are devastating.

The G-6 through G-6A/S all have the MK108 nose cannon as optional.

You'll find that firepower increases significantly across the years between 1940 era aircraft to 1945. Having bigger and more powerful cannons was the order of the day for most airforces. Since aircraft were flying so much faster it was more prudent to hope that with a high fire rate you'd land one or two or a small group of devastating blasts than a stream of fire over a couple of seconds.

Xiolablu3
03-09-2006, 04:54 PM
I also have trouble hitting with the 109's G6 through G14.

I can hit with the 109G2 and 109G6A/S, 109E and 109F but have real trouble with those others.

No idea why? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Mence
03-09-2006, 05:11 PM
I think it must be you. All of the German guns are perfect.

3.JG51_BigBear
03-09-2006, 07:12 PM
The 30MM cannon fires a heavy round and has a slower rate of fire than the 20MM cannon found in the earlier 109s. Getting in close is really the best way to make contact with the 30MM when engaging fighters.

XyZspineZyX
03-09-2006, 07:17 PM
The BF109G10 is a snipers weapon, you have to be very precice because you have got very little ammo. I set gunnery at 250m & then get as close as possible. Its quite difficult doing deflection shooting as you are very short with ammo to begin with so try dead astern attacks & get as close as you can. With fighters it generaly takes a single burst to bring them down.

Jumoschwanz
03-09-2006, 08:58 PM
Yea, the late 109s with the mk108 are the toughest planes to hit anything with. If there is any way for me to get a plane with a 20mm nose cannon instead of the mk108 cannon on it I will take that instead.

ON deflection shots you will hit only about half the targets you would hit with the faster firing 20mm, and even the 20mm is not fast enough to insure a good hit on a deflection shot more than half the time.

That is also why I like to fit the 20mm gunpods if I can. They do make the plane a bit slower and handle worse, but if you get into a situation where that makes the difference, you screwed up long ago somewhere anyway.

Dogfighting is fun and good to know for jams you get yourself into, but it really is for the birds if you are doing anything serious, you should strive to eliminate it completely and just do zoom and boom style of attacks, and that means that firepower rules the day.
So try putting the dual 20mm gunpods on that 109G10, and you will be able to hit things at least twice as easily, and it will be much less work to bring down a foe.

S!

Jumoschwanz

HOOTCHIE_MAMA
03-09-2006, 09:09 PM
Yeah your right it sucks!

F19_Ob
03-10-2006, 02:44 AM
The 30mm cannon is very good if it hits and it's ofcourse possible to get used to it and get good results, but some enemy planes after 1943 are equally fast and can outturn the 109 wich makes it very hard to hit a plane with deflectionshots in a turnfight where the 30mm cannon needs more deflection than the 20mm.
The solution is to spray 30mm when possible and not save ammo when firing.
--------------------------------------------

Record a track of a session and watch it to see if the majority of your deflectionshots go behind or in front of the enemy.
The usual thing is that the shells go behind of the target and the solution is to try to pull more deflection.
When U think u have the right deflection, pull a bit more.
Fire long bursts so the enemy have to pass through it.
If it still doesnt work try to start firing a bit before u think is nessesary and stop firing later. Don't save ammo when firing. 1 kill is better than getting shot down yourself because u missed the opportunity to kill when u had the chance.

Don't expect many kills per sortie and be more careful because planes like La5F and FN and above are as fast as u and can turn better.This means that if u meet an equal pilot and engage in a turnfight of any kind U should not be able to win unless u hit him in the first headon pass, and U can't run away either unless u have 3000-4000m alt to dive from.
So careful bounces on unaware and preferably slower enemies is a sane tactic.
-----------------------------------------

Online it is very hard, and one vs one fights are very difficult to win in a 109 after 1943.
When I fly a La5FN I know I'll win If any 109 engages me and he missed his first pass when we met.
Experts in the 109 knows this and will disengage if they can. The usual result is that I hit them on long range when the try to run and when hit the drag from the damage slows them down so I can catch up.
The best thing the 109 can do in this situation is to dive down to the deck and head for friendly lines and hope tha friendlies can dive down on the pursuer in time.

Kuna_
03-10-2006, 08:29 AM
It seems that some of you never/rarely fly T9 or NS37/45 equipped plane in this game.
No wonder, tho.

OldMan____
03-10-2006, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Kuna_:
It seems that some of you never/rarely fly T9 or NS37/45 equipped plane in this game.
No wonder, tho.

lol, I don even use tha cannon when I fly P39 and other big nose bum stick fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Only use them to finish a cripled plane.

flieger701
03-10-2006, 11:21 AM
Thanks to all who responded!

Nice to know I'm not the only one who finds this armament a b***h. Yes, those La5's can be a major headache.

I could have sworn, though, that sometimes the Bf109G6 had the heavier nose cannon loadout. I didn't have nearly the problems hitting targets with that plane.

Oh well...practice, practice, practice...

Regards,
Scott