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Altair661
08-29-2011, 05:49 PM
I'm rather confused on this subject. So if I could be cleared up on it, it would be nice. Now subject has been said to dead. But they're many things that point towards him being alive...like the acheivement/trophy thing. I know Subject 16 is a touchy subject. But at the PAX panel, Amancio straight up said, Subject 16 is dead. But when asked about the acheivement, he creatively dodged it, not addressing it. Instead sort of flipping, or maybe he really didnt understand the question.

However he did say his, essence, was still within the animus... so does that mean he's alive or dead?? We might see him in ACR with Desmond, but that's something entirely different. So is he dead? Is there any factual thing that I missed out on? Or do we truly just not know. Or was Amancio telling the truth. Which makes comeplete sense, unless he for some reason decided to completely lie to our faces. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Assassin_M
08-29-2011, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Altair661:
I'm rather confused on this subject. So if I could be cleared up on it, it would be nice. Now subject has been said to dead. But they're many things that point towards him being alive...like the acheivement/trophy thing. I know Subject 16 is a touchy subject. But at the PAX panel, Amancio straight up said, Subject 16 is dead. But when asked about the acheivement, he creatively dodged it, not addressing it. Instead sort of flipping, or maybe he really didnt understand the question.

However he did say his, essence, was still within the animus... so does that mean he's alive or dead?? We might see him in ACR with Desmond, but that's something entirely different. So is he dead? Is there any factual thing that I missed out on? Or do we truly just not know. Or was Amancio telling the truth. Which makes comeplete sense, unless he for some reason decided to completely lie to our faces. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Think of it exactly like Minerva and Juno, they`r dead, but there conscience lives on in these Holograms.

DarthEzio55
08-29-2011, 05:59 PM
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

Assassin_M
08-29-2011, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

DarthEzio55
08-29-2011, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

dxsxhxcx
08-29-2011, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

this would be cool but if this is the case then I believe we would be able to see a trail of blood from his room to the animus and probably some blood on the animus too... unless they changed the animus, but I don't think they would change the floor..

naran6142
08-29-2011, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont want to down on ur idea or anything but doesn't 16 kill himself in front of lucy, so he wouldn't have a chance to go into the animus.

or maybe she runs for help and thats when he dies in the animus.

its an interesting idea. i just think that hes dead and left recording in the animus

DarthEzio55
08-29-2011, 07:10 PM
he killed himself in front of lucy? I thought he killed himself when vidic left him alone between the animus sessions

the_atm
08-29-2011, 07:21 PM
wow when you think about it... a man stumbling around, bleeding every where, a crazy smile on his face, crawls onto the animus, puts him self in, blood flowing over the side. Lucy walks in, screems, Vidic comes. that could be an awesome scene for a movie...

As for the debate, he's dead. and it sounds completely possible that his mind is locked in the animus, then when Lucy took the memory core, his mind was taken with them...

naran6142
08-29-2011, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
he killed himself in front of lucy? I thought he killed himself when vidic left him alone between the animus sessions

well thats what i thought. i recall in one of the glyph he says something like "lucy its time for me to go. she sees me raise the knife"

thats not exactly what he said but i am certain about the raising the knife part right after he says something about lucy

though i haven't done the AC2 glyph in a while but im almost positive.

LightRey
08-30-2011, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
he killed himself in front of lucy? I thought he killed himself when vidic left him alone between the animus sessions

well thats what i thought. i recall in one of the glyph he says something like "lucy its time for me to go. she sees me raise the knife"

thats not exactly what he said but i am certain about the raising the knife part right after he says something about lucy

though i haven't done the AC2 glyph in a while but im almost positive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, since he recorded it he could quite well have said it so that Lucy would find the recording, with the part about raising the knife being from a memory he's seeing because of the bleeding effect combined with the fact that he's probably actually raising a knife.

SteelCity999
08-30-2011, 11:04 AM
Subject 16 is dead - it was brought up in the PAX interview. He is alive in the animus and has found a way to manipulate it. Which does pose the question of whether Desmond is reliving his own memories like has been brought up before - 16 is inserting new information into this session.

albertwesker22
08-30-2011, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

"I entered the abyss and never returned"

By god, I think you've cracked it!

LightRey
08-30-2011, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

"I entered the abyss and never returned"

By god, I think you've cracked it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it have been that easy for him?
Tbh, I don't really think so. After all, he split up his consciousness "program", or whatever it is exactly, into separate pieces, which when combined had to be executed before it became fully active.

albertwesker22
08-30-2011, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

"I entered the abyss and never returned"

By god, I think you've cracked it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it have been that easy for him?
Tbh, I don't really think so. After all, he split up his consciousness "program", or whatever it is exactly, into separate pieces, which when combined had to be executed before it became fully active. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was wondering, if Desmond and 16 are both in the black room. Maybe Desmond could absorb/download Subject 16 into himself, allowing Desmond to directly access that memory from the truth.

Panfaun
08-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
he killed himself in front of lucy? I thought he killed himself when vidic left him alone between the animus sessions

well thats what i thought. i recall in one of the glyph he says something like "lucy its time for me to go. she sees me raise the knife"

thats not exactly what he said but i am certain about the raising the knife part right after he says something about lucy

though i haven't done the AC2 glyph in a while but im almost positive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, he killed himself along with Lucy's friend, who might've been a fellow assassin who infiltrated Abstergo. Subject 16...I think he made the programs and such than did the killing.

While I do like the image of a bumbling 16, bloody and going crazy dying in the animus and his consciousness splitting across the digital stores of the animus. But if that happened, wouldn't the Sixteen in their be a bit more crazy? I think 16 made the digital copy of himself then went about being all mad with memories on people.

Jjfd99
08-30-2011, 02:10 PM
I thought he killed himself during a pause in between animus sessions, but before he died he wrote that stuff on the wall.

naran6142
08-30-2011, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Panfaun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
he killed himself in front of lucy? I thought he killed himself when vidic left him alone between the animus sessions

well thats what i thought. i recall in one of the glyph he says something like "lucy its time for me to go. she sees me raise the knife"

thats not exactly what he said but i am certain about the raising the knife part right after he says something about lucy

though i haven't done the AC2 glyph in a while but im almost positive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, he killed himself along with Lucy's friend, who might've been a fellow assassin who infiltrated Abstergo. Subject 16...I think he made the programs and such than did the killing.

While I do like the image of a bumbling 16, bloody and going crazy dying in the animus and his consciousness splitting across the digital stores of the animus. But if that happened, wouldn't the Sixteen in their be a bit more crazy? I think 16 made the digital copy of himself then went about being all mad with memories on people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well maybe before dying the sane part of him slipped into the black room.

i dont like the idea of 16 copying his mind and putting it in the animus. maybe he just left bits of himself behind or pre-recorded messages but not all of himself

Calvarok
08-30-2011, 09:38 PM
16 had been in the animus more than anyone else. I think he accidentally imprinted his mind in there, as a side effect of the bleeding effect.

But yeah, HE IS DEAD. What is in the animus is a digital representation of the person that used to exist.

Panfaun
08-31-2011, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
16 had been in the animus more than anyone else. I think he accidentally imprinted his mind in there, as a side effect of the bleeding effect.

But yeah, HE IS DEAD. What is in the animus is a digital representation of the person that used to exist.

I don't think it's an accident, seeing as the coordinates for the files in Brotherhood correspond perfectly with those left in AC2. They left small strings of numbers which had the exact coordinates of where the Miracle files would be located.

I think he made it off of himself, sealed away most of it's power in the files and only when someone reassembled him would he be unleashed.

LightRey
08-31-2011, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I'm going to say the same thing i said before.
What if 16 died in the animus. Because think about it make sense. He repaints Desmonds room with his own blood, then as he is losing bllod, he goes back into the animus, but since he dies, his mind gets trapped in the animus

"I entered the abyss and never returned"

By god, I think you've cracked it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it have been that easy for him?
Tbh, I don't really think so. After all, he split up his consciousness "program", or whatever it is exactly, into separate pieces, which when combined had to be executed before it became fully active. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was wondering, if Desmond and 16 are both in the black room. Maybe Desmond could absorb/download Subject 16 into himself, allowing Desmond to directly access that memory from the truth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think he already did. I'm pretty sure Rebecca had to upload every glyph (and I'm assuming the same goes for the clusters, since Desmond had to solve those himself too) to Desmond.

CRUDFACE
08-31-2011, 03:06 AM
The thing where Desmond had to go around and jump over stuff to meet with sixteen was more like the training programs that he'd used beforehand.