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ellumin0us
03-26-2011, 09:52 AM
There must have been hundreds of topics about this subject, but I know that I know who Erudito is:

There are two aliases who contact you through the game: Erudito and W.M., both Assassins who help you with the help of Rebecca. There is no doubt that Erudito = W.M.

At some point in the game you hear two guys talking, one is called William. My idea is that William = W.M. so he is William M.

About Subject 16: he is an Assassin too and is also a fine hacker who could hack into the Animus and put messages there meant for Desmond.
So I think there is a high possibility that Subject 16 = Erudito = William M.

I know people think Subject 16 is dead, but he isn't, believe me.

So if you put all the clues together this means that Erudito (= Subject 16) = W.M. = William M. = William Miles!!

This makes total sense to me, there is in my opinion no doubt that the guy who is helping you is Subject 16, Desmond's father!

I think I have convinced you, please put comments below and tell me what you think.

Nothing is true, but what's written above is

P.S.: If you are a Ubisoft executive please tell me if I am right or not I don't like to wait a year for my theory to be proven or disproved http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ace3001
03-26-2011, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:


There are two aliases who contact you through the game: Erudito and W.M., both Assassins who help you with the help of Rebecca. There is no doubt that Erudito = W.M. Errr... How is that?


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:

At some point in the game you hear two guys talking, one is called William. My idea is that William = W.M. so he is William M. W.M. is of course William M. But it goes back to the above point.


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:


About Subject 16: he is an Assassin too and is also a fine hacker who could hack into the Animus and put messages there meant for Desmond.
So I think there is a high possibility that Subject 16 = Erudito = William M. Subject 16 is dead. What is left of him is in the animus memory core.


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:

This makes total sense to me, there is in my opinion no doubt that the guy who is helping you is Subject 16, Desmond's father!
Even if it was William Miles (possible, seeing as the comic refers to a Bill Miles), how do you know it's Desmond's father? Could be anyone in the family.

No personal offense meant, but I think you're just grasping at straws. (Just like I did in my TWCB theory. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif )

ElleCore
03-26-2011, 10:17 AM
I was like "ok this could be possible" until I got to the part you said Subject 16 is William.

There's no way it can be like that.

MoonEyes2k
03-26-2011, 10:39 AM
I can see right off the cuff that you're basing this on a faulty premise. Namely:


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:There is no doubt that Erudito = W.M.

This is your assumption. But, there is no PROOF of this. And thus, the entire argument falls.

El_Sjietah
03-26-2011, 12:15 PM
Subject 16 is dead. Confirmed in AC1 by Lucy and Vidic. Drop the entire thing already.

As for William M being Bill Miles and/or Desmond's father, that is deffinately more plausible.

ellumin0us
03-26-2011, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
Subject 16 is dead. Confirmed in AC1 by Lucy and Vidic. Drop the entire thing already.

As for William M being Bill Miles and/or Desmond's father, that is deffinately more plausible.

Then why do you get a code after a memory (dont remember which) in ACII when translated, it says : I am still alive.

how about that?

ellumin0us
03-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by kolitha.kuruppu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:


There are two aliases who contact you through the game: Erudito and W.M., both Assassins who help you with the help of Rebecca. There is no doubt that Erudito = W.M. Errr... How is that?


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:

At some point in the game you hear two guys talking, one is called William. My idea is that William = W.M. so he is William M. W.M. is of course William M. But it goes back to the above point.


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:


About Subject 16: he is an Assassin too and is also a fine hacker who could hack into the Animus and put messages there meant for Desmond.
So I think there is a high possibility that Subject 16 = Erudito = William M. Subject 16 is dead. What is left of him is in the animus memory core.


Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:

This makes total sense to me, there is in my opinion no doubt that the guy who is helping you is Subject 16, Desmond's father!
Even if it was William Miles (possible, seeing as the comic refers to a Bill Miles), how do you know it's Desmond's father? Could be anyone in the family.

No personal offense meant, but I think you're just grasping at straws. (Just like I did in my TWCB theory. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In an e-mail Erudito says that he has help from Rebecca and that Desmond shouldn't trust Shaun and Lucy which makes sense, look at their passwords: Shaun: Guyfawkes (who was a traitor) and Juno (well, you know her).

Subject 16 isn't dead, you get a code after a memory (dont remember which) in ACII when translated, it says : I am still alive. That should apply to Subject 16.

It must be an older relative, if it isn't his father, then maybe and uncle or something. But I think it's his dad because he is also an Assassin and there has been no feedback so far about another male relativeos being Asssassins too.

Ofcourse I'm grasping at straws, I can't prove this. But that's why it's called a theory, otherwise it would have been called shop172A4DADB's law :P

El_Sjietah
03-26-2011, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
Subject 16 is dead. Confirmed in AC1 by Lucy and Vidic. Drop the entire thing already.

As for William M being Bill Miles and/or Desmond's father, that is deffinately more plausible.

Then why do you get a code after a memory (dont remember which) in ACII when translated, it says : I am still alive.

how about that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. It says "I am alive". There is no 'still' in it.

2. Because the manifestation of subject 16 can be seen, in a way, as being alive inside the Animus. Not sure if that's what Ubisoft meant by it, but it's a more plausible explanation than subject 16 being alive irl atm.

jag272
03-26-2011, 01:19 PM
he is also very likely an auditore

quoted from the assassins creed wiki:

The letters of "ERUDITO", when rearranged spell out "UDITORE" (In English "Auditor"), and with only an A [Assassin's symbol] added spells AUDITORE.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Erudito

ace3001
03-26-2011, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by shop172A4DADB:

In an e-mail Erudito says that he has help from Rebecca and that Desmond shouldn't trust Shaun and Lucy It wasn't Erudito who sent it. It was William M. You're assuming that Erudito and William M are the same person, whereas there's no evidence to this factor. And W.M doesn't directly say not to trust them either.

EcLiPzZz
03-26-2011, 05:44 PM
Subject 16 and Desmond can be related to each other, according to AC wiki, they have the same ancestors...(Altair and Ezio at least)

kernell32_dll
03-26-2011, 10:39 PM
ehm... in proyect legacy, there´s an unlockable called "erudito´s network" or something like that. and it says "Works for abstergo, reports to us"

sooooo, erudito might not be william m., but you can be sure its a templar

jag272
03-27-2011, 04:06 AM
actually thats referring to the player you play as in the game. you work for abstergo doing whatever jobs they wish but you report back to erudito (and the assassins) which could explain why lucy can still access messages etc from abstergo. someone is undercover at abstergo and reporting to erudito who in turn passes it around the assassins. i personally never left the animus to read the emails so erudito could be william or it could be someone else. it could even be lucy since the abstergo messages are being reported back to her though i very highly doubt it is lucy.

however to further the point on lucy altair and maria became lovers and as the time line went down we got to ezio and we also know desmond comes from marias side (desmonds vision) so lucy could also by a descendant of the auditore family

however as i said i highly doubt it is lucy but you never know.

just throwing some things i picked up on on the way through the story out.

ellumin0us
03-28-2011, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by sueiroagustin:
ehm... in proyect legacy, there´s an unlockable called "erudito´s network" or something like that. and it says "Works for abstergo, reports to us"

sooooo, erudito might not be william m., but you can be sure its a templar

Mmm, I did not know that. But what I do know from Project Legacy was that after I finished a questionaire I got this message from Erudito saying that I should be given the Abstergo's kiss *** mug or something. So I'm not sure why would a Templar say something like this. Or he could be a rogue Templar who knows.

wlodi
03-28-2011, 04:42 AM
Erudito's description on Project Legacy is "Work for Abstergo, report to us", us most probably meaning Erudito's Network, aka assassins. He's obviously not a Templar...

ellumin0us
03-28-2011, 04:56 AM
After reading all replies I gotta admit that my opinion of Subject 16 still being alive has decreased. I didn't play ACI so I didn't really know if he was really dead. I'm just saying if Lucy was really a mole than there is a slight possibility. But as I said I didn't see the blood or something :P.

But I'm still sure that Subject 16 is related to Desmond (he is at least an Assassin), the guy you hear in AC:B's The Truth he sounds very much like an older Desmond. So could be his father or is this like those twisted memory inside a memory. Still haven't figured out yet what they exactly meant with that in the game.

On the other hand, I am still convinced that Erudito = Subject 16, because they are both (assumable) Assassins and know how to hack the Animus.

ellumin0us
03-28-2011, 06:45 AM
okay woah I gotta play Legacy more looks like I missed a lot Erudito stuff.

ThaWhistle
03-28-2011, 10:12 AM
subject 16=/= william m =/= erudito in any varying combination.

there is a seperate voice for william m, and even then, you don't think desmond would recognize his own fathers voice? He left the farm when he was like 15 or something, but that would only be 10 years prior to the game.

Subject 16 as a person is dead, but it would seem that he still exists in the animus. But it is extremely unlikely he is also erudito.


As with everything else in these games, we are almost NEVER given any clues to what is going to happen or be revealed in the next game. Speculation seems to be endlessly useless.

PurpleHaze1980
04-14-2011, 11:56 AM
I don't believe William M. is Erudito, nor do I believe that William is subject 16.

I do believe that subject 16 is "alive" in a matter of speaking. After using the Animus extensively I think he worked out a way to hack himself into the files containing Altair and Ezio's memories and leave portions of himself there before his suicide. Although his body may be dead, his mind is living in the Animus.

Erudito I believe is neither William M. nor Subject 16 but someone else entirely. Obviously Erudito isn't in contact with Lucy or the others as you would see some kind of sign of it in the emails.

As for Subject 16's relationship to Desmond, possibly either his son reliving memories within memories, or Subject 16 may be Desmond's Grandfather or some kind of uncle/cousin or similar. It has to be a relative Desmond wasn't familiar with enough to recognise the voice of.

DarthDeva
04-14-2011, 08:56 PM
First, it's clear that Subject 16 is "alive" within the animus but not physically. He must have went further than anyone in the animus, to get the information of the very first assassins, Adam and Eve, thus finding information on Eden(which desmond now has to have). He must be related to Desmond through ancestors but I hope he's not closely related to him. After several generations, the gene pool gets larger, consider Ezio sleeping around in florence, he must have impregnated a few women(lol) knowing that condoms didn't exist at that time.

I wouldn't like William M. to be Desmond's father, it'll be too hollywood movie cliché with a father son bond, binding them together, overcoming obstacles, and fighting enemies. Really too cliché and pure crap.

Erudito may indeed be Lucy or the one who's providing Lucy info on abstergo and templars. Lucy is even on the Project Legacy page in the game. She may either be spying on Abstergo and talking to Erudito through it or being Erudito. Moreover, Lucy and Desmond have developed some kind of infatuation, so it may be her giving Desmond the head's up, but without revealing that it's from her.
Or Erudito may be an insider in abstergo, and being one of the top assassins, or being a civilian who knows too much and leading his own independent research and battle from the safe walls of his hi-tech lab, watching out for Desmond. If someone has to be Desmond's father, I'd prefer he be Erudito.

I definitely don't want William M. to be Erudito nor Desmond's father(other blood relative maybe, or an acquaintance)

So just a theory, my opinion and criticism is appreciated.

Keep em theories coming, I love reading all of your ideas.

PurpleHaze1980
04-15-2011, 12:07 PM
I can't remember if it was in this post or somewhere else that someone said all of the ancestors Desmond can access memories of have to be directly linked to him. He couldn't access for instance, the memories of Claudia's offspring, as the memories would have to come through Ezio's line specifically, etc.

So my question is, was subject 16 accessing the same memories of Ezio and Altair, meaning he would be also have to be directly related to Desmond, either being a brother, a son, a father, uncle or grandfather? Or could this extend to even cousins?

For this matter, were ALL the other subjects Desmond's relatives? There was a subject 04 in 1985 for instance - was this also a relative of Desmond's or were these subjects all going through different ancestors until Abstergo found the right ancestor with the right link to the Apple?

El_Sjietah
04-15-2011, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by PurpleHaze1980:
I can't remember if it was in this post or somewhere else that someone said all of the ancestors Desmond can access memories of have to be directly linked to him. He couldn't access for instance, the memories of Claudia's offspring, as the memories would have to come through Ezio's line specifically, etc.

So my question is, was subject 16 accessing the same memories of Ezio and Altair, meaning he would be also have to be directly related to Desmond, either being a brother, a son, a father, uncle or grandfather? Or could this extend to even cousins?

Yes, subject 16 and Desmond are both descendents from Ezio and therefor also descendents from Altair. However, Ezio lived 10-15 generations ago, so they don't necessarily have to be closely related.


For this matter, were ALL the other subjects Desmond's relatives? There was a subject 04 in 1985 for instance - was this also a relative of Desmond's or were these subjects all going through different ancestors until Abstergo found the right ancestor with the right link to the Apple?

Probably different ancestors. No way to be sure about that though.

PurpleHaze1980
04-15-2011, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PurpleHaze1980:
I can't remember if it was in this post or somewhere else that someone said all of the ancestors Desmond can access memories of have to be directly linked to him. He couldn't access for instance, the memories of Claudia's offspring, as the memories would have to come through Ezio's line specifically, etc.

So my question is, was subject 16 accessing the same memories of Ezio and Altair, meaning he would be also have to be directly related to Desmond, either being a brother, a son, a father, uncle or grandfather? Or could this extend to even cousins?

Yes, subject 16 and Desmond are both descendents from Ezio and therefor also descendents from Altair. However, Ezio lived 10-15 generations ago, so they don't necessarily have to be closely related.


For this matter, were ALL the other subjects Desmond's relatives? There was a subject 04 in 1985 for instance - was this also a relative of Desmond's or were these subjects all going through different ancestors until Abstergo found the right ancestor with the right link to the Apple?

Probably different ancestors. No way to be sure about that though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for clearing that up. I've just went back to playing ACII in the hopes of figuring out more and getting to grips with everything (you can play all these games and still not catch EVERY little hint and clue so this time I'm hoping to catch more than I did the first time round).

All these rules and things that I never fully understood from what was divulged by characters in the first game might seem clearer the second time around... :/