PDA

View Full Version : New E3 Vegas Teaser (X360) No PC Love?



PitViperB1
05-08-2006, 09:07 PM
Guys Brand new Vegas teaser from E3:

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/815/815419/vids_1.html

Where is the PC love? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Bryant1
05-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Already looks like a travesty.

NYR_32
05-08-2006, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Bravo1_CV:
Where is the PC love? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif
Geiger explained why PC isn't there.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3571084024...041010934#2041010934 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3571084024/m/2051082834/r/2041010934#2041010934)

subzero1900
05-08-2006, 10:14 PM
this is another case of "ooh pretty graphics...now wheres the good gameplay to follow up?" aka- Let down...er lock down


Do you honestly belive Using the Unreal 3 engine that this won't be a port?...humm...real nieve...

"we wont be showing the PC version"-gieger (because we already witnessed it right there)

Lockdown "its not a port","its a port"..."its not a port"-Devs
release "Its a port with spoofed up graphics"-us


look at rainbow6:3 (xbox) (had to recode most of the stuff they broke and lowered the polycount)
then rainbow6:Raven Shield (PC) (released it broken & unoptomized)


...if this is whats to come of the PC game, Im not buying...this is just another false title added into the series to try and squeze as much cash off before they kill the series

Thump248th
05-08-2006, 10:19 PM
So, who's looking forward to OFP 2?

Nomad_381
05-09-2006, 11:04 AM
Its been made clear that RS5 for PC is not going to be a port. Sorry, dont have the link handy but its somewhere on these forums that it is specifically stated that PC has its own design team.

subzero1900
05-09-2006, 05:03 PM
...okay...lets see a few things

A. Nothing for PC has been released (like LD)
B. Only Console Screen shots (Like LD)
C. Devs telling us its not a port (like LD)
D. An engine that is cross platform compatiable (like LD0
E. Devs telling us they dont have anything to show us (like LD


When will people wake up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

hell, they concider revamping graphics a non-port...whats next recolor every weapon? (a 1 day job at that) and its not a port...

to say the least (like LD) we've seen the first Ingame Trailer, We, meaning everyone was DISSATISFIED WITH THE MOVIE, WE VOICED OUR OPINIONS THEN IN 2003-04 THEN LOOK AT THE YEAR 2005-06 AND THE MESS WITH LOCKDOWN...

to say the least "FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME"

Deosl
05-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Last time I checked this was the Rainbow Six 5 forums, if you want to ponder about the past I sugguest the Lockdown forums.

R6:5 has a completly different dev. team then Lockdown PC... So let's wait n see what they do before we put on our drama queen suits.

Woosy
05-10-2006, 01:51 AM
Ahhh E3 in the air, the trailer looks really good, for the xbox360. Kinda reminds me of how Ghost Recon:AW works, and for the console it does look fantastic. I think you guys worried about the PC version should actually wait till there is information, I'm not worried until I see something that will upset me. I'm going in to this like you blind, the previous producer who worked on RvS is working on Vegas, he knows what the fans want, unlike stewart who was a first timer.

I'm 50/50 how this game will turn out but I do have a feeling if it is Unreal Engine most people will be happy bunnies, the only problem would be past issues like sdk and linux servers. But to be honest with the recent farce with GRAW and Lockdown, those issues seem so minute in comparison.

SODsniper
05-10-2006, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by deosl:
Last time I checked this was the Rainbow Six 5 forums, if you want to ponder about the past I sugguest the Lockdown forums.

R6:5 has a completly different dev. team then Lockdown PC... So let's wait n see what they do before we put on our drama queen suits.


It's rather ironic (in a funny/sad sort of way) how cyclic things are. At how history always seems to repeat itself.

1. Community gets excited about Game release.

2. Game Demo is released.

3. There are major flaws in the Demo that make the hardcore fans angry.

4. Fans on the forums are ignored/castigated when they make their feelings known.

5. Fans on the forums are told by other fans to adapt a "wait and see" approach. Phrases like, "It's a different team", "Wait and see", "It will be better", etc etc etc....

6. The "wait and see" approach always fails because the major problems (being ignored, etc etc etc) are always prevelant.



Rinse and repeat.

GSG_9_Rage
05-10-2006, 06:27 AM
from a PC viewpoint, that trailer is... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Woosy
05-10-2006, 06:30 AM
To be honest it's make or break, because the console market is making far better quality games then the PC on the xbox360. Look at Redstorm doing Lockdown on the PC which is poopy, then look at their Multiplayer for GRAW on the x360 totaly amazing. I look at Vegas on the xbox360 and I see GRAW but with R6 characters and CQB style but the movement look exactly the same as GRAW.

Now it could happen twice who knows but if the PC version comes out poopy, I think maybe in future they should port xbox360 games over to the PC you may hate to admit it but they should if this fails, and just add the tactical elements that PC gamers come to expect. Look at GRAW 360 then look at PC, I really wish it was ported to the PC and just had fpwv slapped on with the peaking no run and gun etc. Would of been game of the year.

Vadimnk
05-10-2006, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Vadimnk:
subzero1900 I so agree with you and SOD-Sniper: I don't think I would have said it better... the cycle seems to be so true.

Now I just went to the link that NYR_32 put up, http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3571084024...041010934#2041010934
and posted a reply to it, then came back and stumbled accross your post subzero1900, and I just want to say that I agree all the way.

Here is what I just wrote in the Console forums, I think it is more appropriet here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vadimnk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Geiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The PC version will not be presented.

Thanks alot goliath, i really apreciate the news. Although i am not happy taht there will be no presentation of the PC version. It shows how much UBI cares about the PC gamers. Goliath/Geiger, i challenge you to prove me wrong with that last statement http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FUMBLE!

Actually Rage, The PC version isn't there because Ubi cared and listened enough to devote a completely different development project to just the PC version. Thus, it needs development past when the console versions will be ready and though I honestly have no idea where it is in development, one could easily assume there wouldn't be anything worth showing during the E3 time frame.

Make sense? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not trying to start a flame fest, just by looking at the past... Didn't Lockdown have no information for a while? It was supposed to be a separate project etc. So we listened and waited, to our luck it turned into a Port...

Well I will give the R6:5 developers a benefit of a doubt, because they didn't develop Lockdown. But still learning from the past... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vadimnk
05-10-2006, 06:55 AM
Just watched the trailer... this doesn't looks like just an FPS... little of Splinter Cell aiming etc... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

KungFu_CIA
05-10-2006, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
...I think maybe in future they should port xbox360 games over to the PC you may hate to admit it but they should if this fails, and just add the tactical elements that PC gamers come to expect. Look at GRAW 360 then look at PC, I really wish it was ported to the PC and just had fpwv slapped on with the peaking no run and gun etc. Would of been game of the year.

The irony, to me, about GRAW PC is even though it is built on a PC engine, Diesel, it actually IS a port and uses the 360 code base. There is a thread on the GRAW PC forums where "Sneak Spook" looked at the actual code and it apparently IS the console code with a few adjustments for the PC...

Which I don't think is bad IF they adjust the code enough to where it doesn't feel or play like a console game... Which GRAW PC saddly plays like, but on an unoptimized engine. This is the irony of the "GRAW Debacle". It is neither a good PC game, nor a good "port" of an excellent console game, in my opinion.

I don't think you (we) are ever going to see a game built specifically from the ground up for the PC anymore -- from major publishers -- Simply because it is not cost effective.

Most "PC" games are going to be like GRAW and LD where they take the console base and tweak it for the PC audience and hardware... Just the same as there is no such thing as a "Made in America" automobile since all the parts come from around the world in one form or another.

Woosy
05-10-2006, 09:40 AM
In all honesty is it really as bad as people make out Kungfu? I mean there have been some great ports for the PC Splinter Cell for example, and bad ones like Halo, which incidently is like GRAW badly optimised and had the xbox controler still in the main menu. *lol*

But I mean I don't know if you have an xbox360 or played GRAW on it? Because when I saw the Vegas trailer I instantly thought GRAW with rainbow six textures, and you know what else? You know in the magazine they say you can pick up guns is it a coincidence that you could do it on GRAW too. And they both work the same if you think about it, GRAW was played all the way through like half life, though dunno if anyone here will admit that. Then read the EMG article about Vegas and it says the exact same thing!!!

So the only thing thats different or maybe different is how the health system works. Apart from that Vegas sounds like GRAW with different textures and maps on the 360.

You know what worries me the most? Is if the xbox360 version is siumalr to the pc but only run and gun and not so tactical, though if you put the PC elements on it would be ace. Kinda like GRAW situation, if you know what I mean? I still shall wait and see what happens If this game isn't worth my time it's no loss the way I see it.

One thing I would like to ask though.... If the xbox360 version was ported to the pc, how would one do it? Do developers have to put all the maps and textures on to an engine and start from scratch or can you just emulate that software that the consoles use? Why I ask is because since you bring up cost effective wouldn't it be easier to port it across change a few elements for the pc gamers i.e tactical elements, gui, controls, that too me seems easier and quality control would seem better on the whole.

Considering consoles are "right now" above our generation even with the fastest pc's out there until dx10. It seems useful to do that until the pc is miles ahead again, where by porting would seem like a bad idea, like porting lockdown ps2 old gen to pc 360 will eventually get like that and then I would say no but right now it seems right.

subzero1900
05-10-2006, 10:00 AM
yeah, that system would work in a perfect world except

Ubi is trying to be the most Efficent

a. They did this same thing with Letdown
-remember linear singleplayer?
-remember run and gunning?
-remember unbalanced features

b.Red Storm wanted to make a game that we wanted
-they wanted planing
-they wanted unlinearism
-they wanted to make the game balanced
-they wanted to make the game Rainbow Six worthy


C. Ubi didn't give them enough time
-because of efficiency
-because they dont care about their reputation and released a sup-par game

-no SA server files
-more bugs
-features that weren't balance


now look at RSE You all **** on their name, when They wanted to Make the game WE wanted

Now look who grabs the blame from the Console players, who know little more then nothing

Now look at the beloved series since RSE&Tom clancy sold their company and name to UBI...

look where each and every series has headed, Rigth into the toilet

universal bumbling Idiots (UBI)

Woosy
05-10-2006, 10:53 AM
Yeah but look at GRAW PC it's very scripted, certain areas do certain triggers, can't go too far or you end the mission. It's linear to an extent, some maps are pretty wide but playing a few missions it forces you down one route.

And look at GRAW again not enough time? Back in Novemeber last year they said ok guys game is ready to go, it will have SA files at launch their words! Few months later they call a delay and another, 1 month turns in to 6, and it is still unfinished come May.

I think UBI know what Quality is just not on the PC platform when they give it to dev companies, look at GRAW x360 then look at the pc. here is the difference

Xbox360

GameTypes: LMS TDM, Seek & Destroy, Bounty Hunter, Thief, Hmaburger Hill, Escort Flag capture.

Co-op: Terrorist Hunt,Recon,Mission and Defend.

Weapons:

SA-80
M468-SD
A4 Rifle
MR-C
36K
SCAR-L Carbine
SCAR-L CQC SD
M8 Carbine
SCAR-H Rifle
T-95
AK-47
MP5 SD
A4/M320
M468-SD/M320
M8/M320
SA-80/M320
MR-C/AGL
SCAR-H/EGLM
SCAR-L/EGLM
SCAR-L CQC/EGLM
T95/M320
MR-C LW
MG21 LMG
M60
MK48 LMG
T-95 LMG
SR AS50
KJY-88 Sniper
M107 Sniper
PSG-1
SR-25
M320 w/A4
M320 w/M468-SD

Player customisation

10 maps online

PC

GameTypes: Domination
Co-op: campaign

Weapons:

SCAR-L
SCAR-H
XM8
LMG
M99
M8 Compact
m9
Glock

5 Domination maps *lol*

No server options to kick/ban

If ubi hasn't done well... why is GRAW on the xbox360 one of the most sold games on it thus far hum? For Lockdown to be the game you wanted they would of needed another year, how can you add a planning phase to a game that linear for a start? It's just a space filler till Vegas comes out it seems to me.

UBI are working on this title themselves so it shall be good to see what happens, with the current producer. If it flops it flops and I shall find another game that can do what I want, but I think you do need to realise some elements of the game will change and no matter what you will be upset. I look at GRAW it misses alot mutiple teams etc and most people seem to accept that fine cause it's changed for the better but the engine is so messed up.

My point is if UBI where to be effient, it would of been better to port GRAW and add the tactical elements, the graphics look great gameplay could be changed for fpwv AI improved for the PC player. Instead people wanted it from ground up and they got it and it lacks quality. Remember Lockdown was from a ps2 code!!! GRAW code is far superior to that and even the PC version, witht hat in mind wouldn't it make more logical sence to port that code? All I see is people keep saying my pc is better then a console well show me a game that proves it, so far next gen consoles are really pushing the ENVELOPE on what next gen should look like, pc arn't until DX10 or UT2k7 and that will be on console too, until the next evolution in PC hardware PC is second best.

KungFu_CIA
05-10-2006, 11:00 AM
Woosy:

I think SC is a bad example of a "good port" in the sense the expectations for SC are completely different from other games like GR, or R6.

I am not saying the standards or expectations SC fans have are lower than R6/GR fans (I am an avid SC fan), but I think there is a definite difference in focus between the games and who plays them if we are going to discuss these games accurately.

SC is primarily an SP gaming experience, so the devs can concentrate on and do this aspect very well compared to games like R6/GR where a good portion of its playerbase is interested in MP over SP and hence, this is where the developer focus is going to most likely be as most FPS bread-and-butter tends to be the MP side as this is what a lot of gamers buy FPS games for more than anything else.

This comes back to your question of "how bad is it?" which I assume means "how bad is the PC side of gaming these days compared to consoles?"

It all depends on the game and how it is executed.

This is why I personally think SC is a bad example of a good port because the concept translates easily to any platform whereas certain aspects of FPS actully don't appear to translate as easily as evidenced by LD and now GRAW



One thing I would like to ask though.... If the xbox360 version was ported to the pc, how would one do it? Do developers have to put all the maps and textures on to an engine and start from scratch or can you just emulate that software that the consoles use? Why I ask is because since you bring up cost effective wouldn't it be easier to port it across change a few elements for the pc gamers i.e tactical elements, gui, controls, that too me seems easier and quality control would seem better on the whole.

I am no expert (no programmer), but from what I have read, most FPS games on the console are built on already existing PC FPS engines like Unreal, Doom III, Quake, etc. Therefore, the process of porting the game isn't that hard since the console version actually starts its life as a PC game and is paired down to fit the console hardware and GUI constraints.

The only real difference between console software and PC software is the instruction set protocols. This is why you can't dump an Xbox360 (or any console) game onto your PC hard drive and expect to play it (different IS and OS).

In the case of GRAW, apparently, RSE developed its own engine for the 360 version... And here is where the big issue and criticism surrounding GRIN comes into play:

GRIN decided to use their own, in-house engine, Diesel, but "forgot" (or never intended?) to optimize it for wide-scale, retail use since the engine is a simulation engine commissioned by the Swedish government to train soldiers where hardware specs and scalability were probably not an issue since the Swedish government was funding the project and could get them whatever (the latest and greatest) they wanted.

As I said on the GRAW PC forums...

It is decisions like this which are currently killing PC games more than a lot of die-hard PC fanboys/girls want to admit.

It isn't because the supposed 14-year old will go out and buy/play anything released to consoles... It is the fact that console games bring ease-of-use to the gamer (of any age) and a lot of times, the actual console games themselevs are superior to their PC ports/counter-parts in terms of not just execution, but content as with LD and GRAW for Xbox360. The PC version of GRAW's MP is a pathetic joke compared to what you get out-of-the-box on the 360 version. GRIN has promised a patch in June/July that will "finish" the MP modes... But that is just it. Why didn't the PC version ship with a COMPLETED game?!

Again, this is the kind of thing that is hurting PC gaming more than anything else and one only has to open their eyes and see why more and more gamers, regardless of age, are going to the 360, PS3 and whatever else comes out.

Dirtydog28
05-10-2006, 08:15 PM
So were still bent over the barrel, No PC info nudda!! Still stringing us on, Pathetic , That looked like LD take 2!!! ( i know its console)

Ubi listened and is developing PC stand alone seperate ground up BLAH BLAH BLAH!! Info and SS released as soon as Vegus is anounced and here we are still getting the shaft with the same old lame *** excuses for why there is no PC info). Shame on you GEiger hope your getting a nice fat pay check because your credibility is being sold down the poo shoot. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


(QUOTE Vadim )
I'm not trying to start a flame fest, just by looking at the past... Didn't Lockdown have no information for a while? It was supposed to be a separate project etc. So we listened and waited, to our luck it turned into a Port...

Well I will give the R6:5 developers a benefit of a doubt, because they didn't develop Lockdown. But still learning from the past...

Woosy
05-11-2006, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the reply Kungfu. I was listerning to Unreal 2k7 interview at IGN they pretty much said what you have. Though the PC game is having a few different changes for the control setup and different things for gameplay to cater for the PC crowd, they both use the same code.

I wonder what Engine RSE used, because if they could of done what Unreal devs has done with xbox360. I think everyone would of been better off and that way, as they reconise that the console and PC are different, but while using the same design changing it to fit for that certain crowd. That seems easier and efficient two birds with one stone as they say. By the way Kunfu bit OT here, but did you read about the new C&C game? They're still going to be using FMV cut scenes with live action for immersion along with planning, briefings and objectives. Like the old tiberian sun, I thought that was interesting with the Character development talk on here.

I don't think Vegas trailer looked anything like Lockdown 2, go watch some GRAW x360 videos, then go watch that trailer again notice they look the same? I think from a console players perspective that trailer rocked hard, if that was for the PC I culd see your complaint. What I rekon is vegas will come out later this year for the xbox360 and sell over 100,000 copies in a week like GRAW, when the game comes out for the PC everyone will complain as per usual. I think the only complaints console players had was that the game mode blind siege wasn't there and there was no control option for left handed players.

I don't usualy play consoles, most my games are PC, but I'm open minded to new things. The way things are going "Quality" wise console is slapping PC games two time, they're really making some hardcore games out now, that I just can't ignore and the innovation is there, the potential is being used to its fullest, where as PC gamers will always say "this game has potential" that great but if its not being used it's rubbish.

I do still believe this team will do a good job on both formats, you guys are going to have to wake up to some changes, like it or not thats just the way it is.

O_SHOGTUK_O
05-11-2006, 06:57 AM
Im sorry but am i confused? People are talking about the trailer as if it shows gameplay... am i seeing a different trailer to u? the trailer is not gameplay footage, it is a little movie like the GRAW tv advert.

Please do not let the PC version be this childish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Abseiling and shooting the window (what happenned to window demolitions?), the machine gunner holding his M249 up in the air like the terminator (at the end of trailer), A sniper with a PSG1 entering buildings and fighting in CQB (?????), terrorists taking over vegas.... (whats in vegas? why not washington or sumthin)... The whole info released so far is 'hollywood' 'childish' 'un-realistic' and 'scary'.
Maybe RVS was the last good PC FPS?

Deosl
05-11-2006, 07:08 AM
Teaser in question is from Xbox 360:
http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1572/Exclusive-Rainbo...-Vegas-HD-Trailer/p1 (http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1572/Exclusive-Rainbow-Six-Vegas-HD-Trailer/p1)

Woosy
05-11-2006, 08:32 AM
O_SHOGTUK_O, you're watching a different trailer that 1 is CGI one in the OP (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/815/815419/vids_1.html) shows gameplay. I still think it's ace, it xbox360 not PC, if you can seperate that in your mind you might see why it's good. If it was PC ok fair enough, but it isn't, it going to be different for this crowd, so it's worthless saying oh no, they tarnished the name because to begin with it was always like that from RB6-3.

That sniper had a back up SMG, so I guess thats his reason for being in CQB being able to adapt. And phoor Logan Keller. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif As for ops holding M249 in the air most operatives seem to do it nowadays, only people who don't are the LAPD SWAT. Watching how the SAS move they hold the gun upward when on the move, and bring it down. Something even DayGlow said he never saw but they do it, and when missions are over they still hold it in the air. SWAT seems to be more diciplined in that area, but this is an elite special forces group I think they can have some leeway.

KungFu_CIA
05-11-2006, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
Thanks for the reply Kungfu. I was listerning to Unreal 2k7 interview at IGN they pretty much said what you have. Though the PC game is having a few different changes for the control setup and different things for gameplay to cater for the PC crowd, they both use the same code.

I believe with consoles like PS3 and 360 being more akin to mid-to-high-end PCs now in terms of hardware we are going to see more complexity in games on the console than in the past.

This is a good thing because no longer can devs use the excuse of limited hardware to produce quality games on both the console and the PC.



I wonder what Engine RSE used, because if they could of done what Unreal devs has done with xbox360. I think everyone would of been better off and that way, as they reconise that the console and PC are different, but while using the same design changing it to fit for that certain crowd. That seems easier and efficient two birds with one stone as they say.

Ironically, it used to be the other way around: Develop a complex PC game, ala Raven Shield, then pair it down for the console hardware and its specific demographic like they did with R63 and Black Arrow.

The real problem isn't the hardware now, but when publishers and developers assume console players and PC players want the same things by just porting the console game to PC. Lockdown is a pure example of this.

(Consequently, I've heard Stuart White is still trying to live down the massive failure of LD on all the platforms; this is a cautionary tale of what can happen when you completely misread or are out-of-touch with your userbase/market).

However, in this case, I have to agree with what you are saying regarding GRAW on 360 vs. GRAW PC. I also think if they had just ported the 360 game, added FPWV, and added the more detailed tactical map and maybe upped the realism just a tad the game would have been a hit and more people would actually be playing the game due to it being on a tested engine that is probably scalable AND, most of all, offered a more robust MP experience out-of-the-box.

Hell, I've even posted they should have used the GR2/GR2:SS engine, added the FPWV, added the tac map and used this as the basis for GRAW because again, the engine would not take uber-hardware to run considering the Xbox can run it just fine (because it is just an upgraded version of the original GR engine).

Again, this all comes back to decision making, for better or for worse, and what appears to be a lack of genuine concern for the PC games market as a whole.

Also, I know a lot of posters reading probably say why are we talking about console games on the PC forum?

For the record, I enjoy games no matter what platform they are released on. I have a mid-range gaming PC and have countless PC titles installed and I also own an Xbox. I know PCs are will always more powerful and offer features like being able to Mod a game consoles can never offer...

But like Woosy said, as far as this discussion is concerned, it currently appears the PC market is the one who is not living up to its potential, no matter how powerful someone's PC hardware is, as evidenced by games like Lockdown and GRAW for PC when the console counter-parts (GRAW at least) are far superior and complete when put side-by-side.

In addition, I fully acknowledge GRAW PC and LD PC may be bad examples to try and prove the point that consoles are currently better than PC games at this current time, but the real issue is the fact it isn't JUST these games. BIA (Brothers in Arms) is another clear example where the console game is superior because this is the target platform it was designed for. The same thing with "Dreamfall: The Longest Journey II". The PC version may have higher resolution textures... But so what? The control scheme using the mouse and keyboard is terrible because the game was designed first and foremost for the Xbox -- Similar to BIA and other ported games.



What I rekon is vegas will come out later this year for the xbox360 and sell over 100,000 copies in a week like GRAW, when the game comes out for the PC everyone will complain as per usual.

It all depends on how UBI executes the PC version.

If it turns out anything like GRAW for PC, you're going to have a lot of disappointed and angry fans for a number of reasons too numerous to go into here. All we can do is keep our fingers crossed and see what happens.

GSG_9_Rage
05-11-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
O_SHOGTUK_O, you're watching a different trailer that 1 is CGI one in the OP (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/815/815419/vids_1.html) shows gameplay. I still think it's ace, it xbox360 not PC, if you can seperate that in your mind you might see why it's good. If it was PC ok fair enough, but it isn't, it going to be different for this crowd, so it's worthless saying oh no, they tarnished the name because to begin with it was always like that from RB6-3.

That sniper had a back up SMG, so I guess thats his reason for being in CQB being able to adapt. And phoor Logan Keller. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif As for ops holding M249 in the air most operatives seem to do it nowadays, only people who don't are the LAPD SWAT. Watching how the SAS move they hold the gun upward when on the move, and bring it down. Something even DayGlow said he never saw but they do it, and when missions are over they still hold it in the air. SWAT seems to be more diciplined in that area, but this is an elite special forces group I think they can have some leeway.

It is not unrealistic to see an op holding his gun in the air. one of the key rules of any gun is to always hold it in a safe direction. that is just what they are doing. however, you would not hold your gun up in the air during the actual mission. They would still have it shouldered, but have it pointing down. If yuo walked around with it pointing up, a tango comes around, you have to re shoulder the weapon and completely re-aim instead of just bringing it up. when you bring it up, you don't have to re aim as much, because you gun is relativly in control when you are just bringing it up.

Vadimnk
05-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by deosl:
Teaser in question is from Xbox 360:
http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1572/Exclusive-Rainbo...-Vegas-HD-Trailer/p1 (http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1572/Exclusive-Rainbow-Six-Vegas-HD-Trailer/p1)

Here comes Rambo Geeks: Viva Las Vegas

Here is what I think of this teaser...
1.) Pistols are great and all but not when you have a room full of bystandards, pistols are not that accuarate..
a.) Don't see much reloading, like a hollywood movie...
2.) Yes I'll run around with a SAW and get perfect aim.
3.) Shooting non stop wasting ammo, and who cares about the bystandards.
4.) Sniper rifle in a CQB enviroment? Why not just a MP5 with a mini scope?!?!?
5.) Looks like they finished the mission, the whole game in this trailer.... so what is our dear story going to be about then?

Ah this just looks too much like a freaking run and gun movie, with no plot probably.

Bryant1
05-11-2006, 06:15 PM
It's a console game, remember?

subzero1900
05-11-2006, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Bryant1:
It's a console game, remember?

remember they did port raven shield onto the xbox...

remember they did port Lockdown off of the xbox and claimed "its not a port"...

Remember let down syndrome

Woosy
05-12-2006, 03:44 AM
I wouldn't worry about it, until they screw it up. You're going on like its screwed already. I think alot of people need to get their head out the sand. I watched that trailer like 30 odd times *lol* I can't see whats so bad, there is only bystanders when they burst through the window, which Logan pushed out the way, then on they are shooting at bad guys.

You would fire alot of rounds to keep them under cover thats what the SAW was invented for, they are under fire you fire back, notice he fires in bursts for accurate shots? No? When advancing firing full auto to lay down a wall of lead. I think its a common misconception that people think these LMG's arn't accurate, they're deadly they arn't mean't to be pin point accurate at long ranges, but they are accurate to a degree, they are only 30 meters away from the bad guys not that far. I think you may have been playing RvS a tad too much LMG's can be fired standing up and prone, very well and be quite accurate for showering the enemy with lead, thats their use.

You should see how the seals use them waste of ammo lol? It's not a waste of ammo *lol* LMG's are there to lay down supressive fire, if you're being fired upon, or retreat. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_yO7kOfm-Q&search=CQB]http:...yO7kOfm-Q&search=CQB (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_yO7kOfm-Q&search=CQB%5Dhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=-_yO7kOfm-Q&search=CQB)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RBKO1jmgz6Q&search=navy%20seals

The seals when showed on the discovery channel, used over 1000 rounds of ammunition for a retreat/advance that clip shows urban retreat. In forestry they use alot more! Waste of ammo? I think not, take note they fire from the hip, you got to remember special forces don't use the same tactics as your swat.

Nit picking it's real sad, didn't give any positives, Helmets no? Arm patches no? Nope none of those just bad, not even to rappelling which if in the PC version will rawk hard, if you can't tell the difference between the console and the PC come more info for the PC and you will be instantly pissed. I think you should load up RvS watch the intro trailer again, where they're in Meatpacking plant and firing off a ton of rounds just like that casino scene, but with more team members, spray and prayers I guess?

KungFu_CIA
05-12-2006, 09:02 AM
Woosy:

You raise some good points, as usual http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1) LMGs are the high casualty producing weapons of any squad, no matter the force (SEAL; SAS; etc.)

The weapon has a high rate of fire and doesn't need to be pin-point accurate since it can just spray hundreds of rounds in a few seconds; You're going to hit something if the target(s) is/are close enough even if you are the worst shot in the word (which most SF Operators aren't, of course).

I think the misconception about LMGs comes from both games and movies where they make them out to be these uber-rifles that need "special" attention to produce results when all they are are support weapons that add more firepower when needed. In fact, in certain scenarios they rule the battlefield because of the amount of rounds they can pour onto a position in a matter of seconds.

2) I am so glad you take the time to dig up videos like that because they offer up cool little things the developers for R6:5 should take into account which would make the series better... And I don't mean from just a gameplay standpoint.

I am talking about in that SEAL video where they explain the rationale and methodology behind the SEAL team is to inflict the maximium amount of damage with as little resources as possible. THIS is the kind of stuff I think R6 fans want put into their game(s) instead of "pointless" cliched characterizations.

Another poster, "Defuser", on the Vegas Console forums said the SF are the modern-day Knights of the Round Table in they are surrounded by an heir of mystery and excitement and it is things like the SEAL video which add to this mystique... Which is a perfect thing to put in a video game because this is why we play games in the first place: Wish and fantasy fullfillment.

None of us would play FPShooters, or R6 if we didn't all want to be a SF Operator on at least a short-term and subconscious level. This isn't rocket science, but game devs need to get back to this very simple concept because it is what made the original series great and why I believe they've strayed so far from what the series started out as.

P.S. - The video showing urban combat training is also another reason I can't stand GRAW for PC. The movement in the game is way too slow compared to the video where everyone is running around trying to get a better offensive and defensive position... Yet GRIN keeps touting GRAW as being this ultra-realistic urban combat simulator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bryant1
05-12-2006, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Vadimnk:

2.) Yes I'll run around with a SAW and get perfect aim.

Actually, I believe he was using an Mk. 46 or 48.

Woosy
05-12-2006, 11:07 AM
Exactly Kungfu, there is so much wealth of information about Special Forces, and how they deal with threats. Techniques they use I'm sure alot of people would shout, "omg, thats so unrealistic" when in reality it's used, sometimes to "improvise" on a situation.

I dunno if you can get your hands on Discovery Channel stuff? But those navy seal clips are from that, and they explain every single weapon in detail from MP5,M16,M4,M14 and why they still use the M14, to grenade launcher on their lil buggy cars. They show how one guy fires the M60 standing up and is quite accurate, how he has to assemble the gun in less then 60 seconds and why. They explain why every 20th bullet in the belt had a Tracer. And the one veteran bless his cotton socks, chuckled at how some operatives fired their weapon till the bores on the end of the barrel turned white, from the high rate of sustained fire ..scary.

I do think alot of people get mixed signals how things work I mean take CQB for example, some have been known to call it CQC which is wrong. *lol* As Close Quater Combat is hand to hand or known as Combatives, where by the gun you're using is either damaged or no ammunition, so therefore must use a knife or a knife on the end on the weapon, even your fists to "defend" yourself, you're deffo not gonna breach a room with just your knife *teehee*. Where as CQB is clearing rooms, with flash bangs speed and suprise using "team" maneuvers with guns! See and they still call it CQC. *sigh*

As much as everyone is criticising Vegas for the xbox360 after watching the new demo trailer Here (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/815/815419/vids_1.html) It shows some really great changes they have made. Main one being about to see under the door via optics ala Splinter Cell, marking the targets for your team mates so they know who their primary targets are, and breaching, which makes it easier for the player to know what target to shoot "untagged" instead of getting confused. Take note folks, notice it keeps "you" in control still, unlike SWAT4 where the team must breach first. I think that is more innovative then the tactical map. I'm gonna cry if thats not in the PC version honestly, it maximises your teams efficientcy and they become a very useful tool.

And did anyone see how they actually clear rooms!! The way the breached the roof door was amazing and other rooms, DayGlow would have a fit, I think his eyes may have popped out watching it cause haven't seen him for a while, but what do you think of that then? I'm not a fan of the 3rd person back to the wall see around the corner. But if they could do that in a FPWV perspective where you could come around the same and shoot, though it would be blind firing, it would be an improvement instead of standard peak.

I think the game looks pretty kick ***, Yes there is a few unreal things like shooting over the table shooting around corners blindly, but overall the things that have been put in the game are just WOW, hardcore fans need to open up to "some" of these ideas, because they enchance the games mechanics tenfold and add to the gameplay.